Post/Author/DateTime	Post
exploding_brain 06-09-05, 12:11 PM	I just ran across the Cloaker Lord in Monsters of Faerun, and I’d love to use it in my campaign, as it fits perfectly into an empty villain slot. But the description makes it sound much more dangerous than it’s CR 7 would indicate. The Cloaker Lord has the spellcasting ability of a 9th level wizard, along with all it’s other abilites. Wouldn’t that alone make it at least a CR 9? Has anyone used this monster? How dangerous is it in practice?
Sarlax 06-09-05, 05:46 PM	Many monsters are like this. It highlights the fact that a classed creature just isn't very challenging. By the RAW, a 10th level bard is CR 10. But does anyone believe this bard poses a challenge to a 10th-level party? Very few, if any PC classes produce a challenge equal to their level. It's the CR rules regarding classes that need to be fixed. In the case of the cloaker lord, you're probably dealing with an accurate CR. A 9th-level human wizard isn't really CR 9 - a decent warrior can neutralize him in a round or two. But the cloaker lord has enough other abilities to even the score.
CryoSilver 06-09-05, 09:03 PM	Well, that's because you're putting a creature with power equal to just one member of the party against four or so instead; two or three classed creatures would be much more of a threat, especially with varied class, or in other wordfs, another party of adventurers. If you take a look at the cloaker lord's abilities, none are really conducive to killing, just incapacitating. So, rather than being a party killer, it's an excellent support creature for others, such as normal cloakers, justifying its seemingly low CR.
CthulhuRyleh 06-10-05, 09:51 PM	a monsters cr= the level of a standard 4 person party (fighter, cleric, wizard, and rogue,) to defeat it using 25% of party resources... so it would be a match for 1 11-12 lvl character.... wait... whats a regular cloakers cr?
exploding_brain 06-11-05, 02:07 AM	Regular cloaker = CR 5. Monsters of Faerun was never updated to 3.5, was it? If I'm reading the entry right, the cloaker lord has the full spellcasting ability of a 9th level wizard, specialized in a specific list. So in addition to having an extra slot at each level to fill with spells from the special list, it could also cast cone of cold, cloudkill, dominate person, baleful polymorph, etc. I'd expect a fully rested 5th level party to be able to deal with a CR 7 creature. A 9th level wizard, on the other hand, could spell the doom of such a party, and a cloaker lord sound like a death sentence for such a party, unless I'm missing something. Anyone actually used one in a game? Thanks for all the input so far.
Vanamir 06-11-05, 10:09 AM	CRs are only guesses about a monster's combat prowess and assigning them is more art than a science so there are always CRs that are quite wrong, especially in books from the early days of 3E when the rules were new and the game designers less experienced. Monsters of Faerun has several examples of monster with wildly inappropriate CRs the banelar being the worst example.
CryoSilver 06-11-05, 04:35 PM	Well losing one meber of a standard party is losing %25 percent of your resources...
Vanamir 06-12-05, 10:22 AM	Well losing one meber of a standard party is losing %25 percent of your resources... Hehe, that's another way to look at it. :D