Post/Author/DateTime	Post
radu the wanderer 12-12-03, 03:47 PM	I'm planning on using clockwork horrors from the Monster Manual 2 in my game, but they seem a bit too strong for their listed CR. Consider the Adamantine Horror--- it can use disintegrate, implosion, and mordenkainen's disjunction at will, at caster level 14, DC 15+spell level, it has AC 28, and an attack at +18 that does 2d10+7 damage. CR 9, are you kidding me? I mean, I know this is MM 2, with rediculously powerful monsters, but good lord. Many issues here. 1) disintegrate is a VERY powerful spell--- 6th level at will? that's essentially a 1/turn save or die spell. DC 21 Fort save each turn or bite the dust? I don't think so, not for a CR 9 monster. 2) implosion and mordenkainen's disjunction are both 9th level spells. You can't even cast those until 17th level. And even so it gets them AT WILL? round 1 disjunction, round two implosion, keep imploding 1/turn until party is done. Disintegrate remains. end of combat, end of party, end of game. 3) AC 28, and a +18 attack that deals out 2d10+7 damage is ludicrous for CR 9. Plus it can Sunder magical equipment as if it had a +5 enhancement bonus? I know it only has Construct HD (low attack progression, all saves bad) but I think it is essentially better than a 17th level wizard in that it can cast a 9th level spell once per turn at will. Not to mention it's AC is what I would expect from a CR 15 monster or so. The attack bonus is roughly aroung CR 12, and the damage about the same... I know it's the only attack form, but still, an average of 18 damage a hit is still pretty beefy. How would you suggest I fix this? Or am I overstating the problem here? I don't quite know, but it seems to me that the Adamantine Clockwork horror is by far superior to a Vrock... after all, all it has to do is use implosion on it each round... I know Vrock's have a +14 Fort save, but how many turns can they keep making that DC 24 check? How many disintegrates can they handle? With a +14 on it's level check the Adamantine Clockwork Horror will almost always bypass SR against the demon, whereas the demon's natural attack routine (which is scary, don't get me wrong!) will miss more often than not. +15 attack versus 28 AC.... the Vrock needs a 13+ to hit... 2 in 5 chance is ok, but compared to the Adamantine Clockwork Horror's hit on a 4+ (17 out of 20).... well it's not exactly a contest, is it? I guess with Heroism active, it's more even, giving the Vrock a 50% chance to hit and a 13/20 chance to save. But that's still a 9th level spell coming at you EACH ROUND... it just doesn't seem right to me.
ebonny 12-12-03, 04:46 PM	This horror is pretty similar in abilities to the 2e one - which upon looking back needed some fine tuning. For a more balanced adamantite horror, do this: > Make it CR 12 > Give it disintegrate 3/day (ability as a 12th level sorcerer - a specialist wizard could do the same) > Take away Mordy's disjunction & implosion (or allow the horror to use one or the other 1/day if your players annoyed you today) > For purposes of damage reduction and hardness, treat its natural weapons as magic and adamantine. Your 12th level fighters should have no hard time hitting it and after the battle, hopefully one player will have ended up in a pile of dust on the floor.