Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RavinRay 01-10-04, 09:34 AM	I need opinions and comments on developing combat rules for aquatic dragons. I am developing aquatic varieties of the three main true dragon groups, chromatic, gem and metallic (actually they are almost complete). Physically, they are like their terrestrial counterparts: instead of wings, they have fins like rays; they have broad flippers tipped with claws; and a short tail. I wanted something different from the turtle shape of the dragon turtle, lung wang, and Krynnish sea dragon, and the serpentine shape of the Oceanus and Styx dragons. So, I thought I'd replace the tail slap with a flipper slap, fin slam for a wing slam. The details of physical combat are as follows, derived and modified from version 3.5 of the SRD. As with terrestrial dragons, an aquatic dragon attacks with its powerful claws and bite, and can also use a breath weapon and special physical attacks, depending on its size. It prefers to fight on the move, staying out of reach until it has worn down the enemy with ranged attacks. Older, more intelligent dragons are adept at sizing up the opposition and eliminating the most dangerous foes first (or avoiding them while picking off weaker enemies). Combat underwater is similar to that on land or in air, although there are notable differences which are listed below. The table below provides space and reach statistics for dragons of various sizes, plus the natural weapons a dragon of a certain size can employ and the damage those attacks deal. Amphibious: All aquatic dragons are amphibious and can breathe air as easily as water, but their mobility on land is highly limited and thus certain methods of attack such as crush have restrictions. Fin: The aquatic dragon can slam opponents with its fins, even when swimming. Fin attacks deal the indicated damage plus 1/2 the dragon's Strength bonus (round down) and are treated as secondary attacks. Flipper Slap: The dragon can slap one opponent each round with its flippers. A flipper slap deals the indicated damage plus 1-1/2 times the dragon's Strength bonus (round down) and is treated as a secondary attack. Crush (Ex): This special attack allows an aquatic dragon of at least Huge size to land on opponents as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. Since aquatic dragons are incapable of sustained flight* (unless they use flight spells), crush attacks are mostly used when dragons leap over the water to beach themselves onshore, or to land on ships. It can be used underwater, but due to the natural buoyancy of most creatures damage is only half that indicated below. However, aquatic dragons with the Power Dive feat can deal full damage. It is effective only against opponents three or more size categories smaller than the dragon (though it can attempt normal overrun or grapple attacks against larger opponents). A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the dragon's body. Creatures in the affected area must succeed on a Reflex save (DC equal to that of the dragon's breath weapon) or be pinned, automatically taking bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the dragon moves off them. If the dragon chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the crush each round if they don't escape. A crush attack deals the indicated damage plus 1-1/2 times the dragon's Strength bonus (round down). I was wondering whether the Power Dive feat can be used as is underwater or would I have to use an aquatic counterpart. Also, do you agree with the half damage statement due to buoyancy? *Although they can't fly, they can leap over the water and glide for a short distance.
Radagast 02-08-04, 09:53 PM	Interesting: I thought this post was going to deal with running Dragons that can breath underwater (Greens, Blacks, and Bronzes, I think), but I'll see if I can help you out a bit with some ideas. First of all, what you have looks good overall. Some points to consider: - Drowning foes It's simple, brutal, and will end up dealing a lot more damage then any claws or teeth - just grab your opponent with a claw and hold him down until he drowns. Now, if your players are going to go in search of battle with one of these guys, they'll probably be smart enough to find some way to breath underwater (if not, they'll be quite dead in short order!) The big question you have to answer is: are the Aquatic Dragons smart enough to come up with a solution to this problem? Even the most slow-witted Dragon would realize that funny man-things with pointy metal weapons don't belong underwater. The smarter ones may come up with all sorts of nasty solutions to the problem. Ripping away magical gear that allows underwater breathing, use of Dispel Magic or similar effects to shut down magical spells and effects, and so on. Of course, if you overdo it, your players will simply avoid Aquatic Dragons entirely, which isn't what you want! - Breath Weapons How do they behave underwater? Rather strangely, I would think. Fire would probably produce super-hot steam, which would deal less damage, but would produce an obscuring effect, granting Conceapment and/or Cover to people. Acid, both liquid and gas, might stick around for awhile and form floating "death zones" of acid that last for a few rounds before either sinking or floating upwards. Cold could be the most amusing - it could instantly create wall and fiels of ice. It would be like being hit with a swarm of hailstones moving at a high speed (cold and bludgeoning damage), and then the freezing weapon could be used to trap people in cubes of ice!!! Fun stufff - good luck with this creative idea!