confuse about cr and ecl [Archive] - Wizards Community

confuse about cr and ecl [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
laurent1
10-18-05, 06:57 PM Hi . I'm very confuse about the difference between chalenge rating and effective character level.

For example, let say I want my party to face braxats (fromm MM). In the book, it's said that "normal" are cr9. If I understand correctly, it mean that a single braxat is a good challange for a party of 4 9lvl Pcs.

But let say, I want to put them against a 1st level ranger braxat. In the book they say that a 1st level ranger braxat is the equivalent of a 17lvl character. Those it means that it as a cr of 17?

I don't think so but if I remember correctly, in the DMG, they say that a npc as a cr equal to it's level?

Please, what is it that I don't understand?
ieattrollsforbreakfast
10-18-05, 07:12 PM If you are a DM, forget about ECL. CR and ECL are two entirely separate numbers, related only vaguely. ECL is a tool for players to determine a creature's power relative to other characters while working as part of a persistent team. CR is a tool for DMs to determine how much of a challenge a creature is in a single encounter.
So a braxat has a base CR of 8 and an ECL of 17 (with 1 class level). So, if you had a player wanting to play a 4th level ranger braxat, his character can be treated as level 20 for the purposes of experience and starting wealth. If you wanted to use a 4th level ranger braxat against your PCs, its CR is 13 (9 base + 4 for ranger levels), and is a reasonable challenge for 4 13th level characters.
Does that make sense to you? :)
laurent1
10-18-05, 07:19 PM Thanks a lot. It does make a lot of sense. I'm so glad to be capable of using the rules for making advance creatures :)
Rogue Newb
10-18-05, 07:39 PM It's a really confusing system. It especially breaks down when you play with NPCs. Cause according to the system. 4 level 15 human fighters are about equal with 1 level 15 human fighter. Even if they are the same.
gbnogkfs
10-19-05, 03:31 AM It's a really confusing system. It especially breaks down when you play with NPCs. Cause according to the system. 4 level 15 human fighters are about equal with 1 level 15 human fighter. Even if they are the same.

there is also the common misconception that a CR 15 encounter has the same level of power than a 15 level Party (4 characters at level 15 each).
that's not absolutely the case: a CR 15 encounter is the typical encounter that a 15-level party would have in an adventure, but that's all.
The party is supposed to win a CR 15 encounter if they don't play badly. They're not supposed to lose 50% of the times!
Lord Schpungus
10-19-05, 08:08 AM Yeah, they're supposed to win, and use 25% of their resources (spells, hp, etc).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
laurent1 10-18-05, 06:57 PM	Hi . I'm very confuse about the difference between chalenge rating and effective character level. For example, let say I want my party to face braxats (fromm MM). In the book, it's said that "normal" are cr9. If I understand correctly, it mean that a single braxat is a good challange for a party of 4 9lvl Pcs. But let say, I want to put them against a 1st level ranger braxat. In the book they say that a 1st level ranger braxat is the equivalent of a 17lvl character. Those it means that it as a cr of 17? I don't think so but if I remember correctly, in the DMG, they say that a npc as a cr equal to it's level? Please, what is it that I don't understand?
ieattrollsforbreakfast 10-18-05, 07:12 PM	If you are a DM, forget about ECL. CR and ECL are two entirely separate numbers, related only vaguely. ECL is a tool for players to determine a creature's power relative to other characters while working as part of a persistent team. CR is a tool for DMs to determine how much of a challenge a creature is in a single encounter. So a braxat has a base CR of 8 and an ECL of 17 (with 1 class level). So, if you had a player wanting to play a 4th level ranger braxat, his character can be treated as level 20 for the purposes of experience and starting wealth. If you wanted to use a 4th level ranger braxat against your PCs, its CR is 13 (9 base + 4 for ranger levels), and is a reasonable challenge for 4 13th level characters. Does that make sense to you? :)
laurent1 10-18-05, 07:19 PM	Thanks a lot. It does make a lot of sense. I'm so glad to be capable of using the rules for making advance creatures :)
Rogue Newb 10-18-05, 07:39 PM	It's a really confusing system. It especially breaks down when you play with NPCs. Cause according to the system. 4 level 15 human fighters are about equal with 1 level 15 human fighter. Even if they are the same.
gbnogkfs 10-19-05, 03:31 AM	It's a really confusing system. It especially breaks down when you play with NPCs. Cause according to the system. 4 level 15 human fighters are about equal with 1 level 15 human fighter. Even if they are the same. there is also the common misconception that a CR 15 encounter has the same level of power than a 15 level Party (4 characters at level 15 each). that's not absolutely the case: a CR 15 encounter is the typical encounter that a 15-level party would have in an adventure, but that's all. The party is supposed to win a CR 15 encounter if they don't play badly. They're not supposed to lose 50% of the times!
Lord Schpungus 10-19-05, 08:08 AM	Yeah, they're supposed to win, and use 25% of their resources (spells, hp, etc).