Confused by Natural Attacks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Confused by Natural Attacks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jc3
05-17-04, 11:58 AM I used to consider myself a pretty smart guy, but I can't wrap my head around how multiple natural attacks are supposed to work with monstrous feats. Here's an example:

The lion that appears in the 3.5 Monster Manual has a full attack option of: 2 claws +7 melee (1d4+5) and bite +2 melee (1d8+2). The Multiattack feat states that "the creature’s secondary attacks with natural weapons take only a –2 penalty" as opposed to the -5 penalty that a creature normally incurs from attacking with a secondary natural attack.

Does this mean that the lion's primary natural attack is 2 claws at the same time? Does the lion make 1 die roll at no penalty and roll 1d4+5 two times for damage? Does the bite then become the secondary natural attack, made at only -2 if he has the Multiattack feat? (Lions don't usually get Multiattack, but let's just say they could for purposes of this argument)

I'd appreciate if someone could straighten me out because the players in my group are doing everything in their power to transform into animals with claws! (My fault as a DM, of course, but now that I've opened Pandora's box, I've got to sort through what comes out) Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!
ieattrollsforbreakfast
05-17-04, 12:01 PM If it says 2 claws, then you get to roll twice to attack and twice for damage at the bonus given. The bite will be the secondary attack, taking a -5 (or -2) penalty and 1/2 str bonus on damage, but thw two claw attacks are exactly the same in terms of attack/damage rolls.
If the entry just says Claws +1 (1d4+5), then it only gets one roll for attack and damage.
Jc3
05-18-04, 11:04 AM Is it your opinion that the clawed creature would have to use the full attack action to bring both claws to bear at once?
ieattrollsforbreakfast
05-18-04, 12:32 PM No, its the rules. If you have the MM 3.5 notice that in the Attack entry it will say (for example) Claw +7 melee (1d4+5), then look at the Full Attack entry and notice it will say 2 Claws +7 melee (1d4+5) and Bite +2 melee (1d8+2). You dont make the 2 claws attacks at the same time, you still roll them seperatly, and only once in a normal attack.
Cardinal Teplin
05-18-04, 12:35 PM yup.

A lion has two claw attacks at its full bonus, and one bite at -5. The multiattack feat brings that up to only a -2.

But like everything else, it doesn't get them unless its using a full attack action. Otherwise it only gets the one attack like everything else.

(It should also be noted that, in a grapple, a creature gets attacks based on its base attack - so the lion gets only one claw attack in a grapple)

Check out the Monster manual, which has quite a good section on natural attacks.

Turning into an animal is a good option at low level, since you get strength and multiple attacks quite easily. But your AC will start to let you down.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jc3 05-17-04, 11:58 AM	I used to consider myself a pretty smart guy, but I can't wrap my head around how multiple natural attacks are supposed to work with monstrous feats. Here's an example: The lion that appears in the 3.5 Monster Manual has a full attack option of: 2 claws +7 melee (1d4+5) and bite +2 melee (1d8+2). The Multiattack feat states that "the creature’s secondary attacks with natural weapons take only a –2 penalty" as opposed to the -5 penalty that a creature normally incurs from attacking with a secondary natural attack. Does this mean that the lion's primary natural attack is 2 claws at the same time? Does the lion make 1 die roll at no penalty and roll 1d4+5 two times for damage? Does the bite then become the secondary natural attack, made at only -2 if he has the Multiattack feat? (Lions don't usually get Multiattack, but let's just say they could for purposes of this argument) I'd appreciate if someone could straighten me out because the players in my group are doing everything in their power to transform into animals with claws! (My fault as a DM, of course, but now that I've opened Pandora's box, I've got to sort through what comes out) Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!
ieattrollsforbreakfast 05-17-04, 12:01 PM	If it says 2 claws, then you get to roll twice to attack and twice for damage at the bonus given. The bite will be the secondary attack, taking a -5 (or -2) penalty and 1/2 str bonus on damage, but thw two claw attacks are exactly the same in terms of attack/damage rolls. If the entry just says Claws +1 (1d4+5), then it only gets one roll for attack and damage.
Jc3 05-18-04, 11:04 AM	Is it your opinion that the clawed creature would have to use the full attack action to bring both claws to bear at once?
ieattrollsforbreakfast 05-18-04, 12:32 PM	No, its the rules. If you have the MM 3.5 notice that in the Attack entry it will say (for example) Claw +7 melee (1d4+5), then look at the Full Attack entry and notice it will say 2 Claws +7 melee (1d4+5) and Bite +2 melee (1d8+2). You dont make the 2 claws attacks at the same time, you still roll them seperatly, and only once in a normal attack.
Cardinal Teplin 05-18-04, 12:35 PM	yup. A lion has two claw attacks at its full bonus, and one bite at -5. The multiattack feat brings that up to only a -2. But like everything else, it doesn't get them unless its using a full attack action. Otherwise it only gets the one attack like everything else. (It should also be noted that, in a grapple, a creature gets attacks based on its base attack - so the lion gets only one claw attack in a grapple) Check out the Monster manual, which has quite a good section on natural attacks. Turning into an animal is a good option at low level, since you get strength and multiple attacks quite easily. But your AC will start to let you down.