confusion with adjusting cr [Archive] - Wizards Community

confusion with adjusting cr [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
diegosephroth
07-22-07, 05:10 PM I saw a topic today, with a guy presenting a 90hd undead, and the others saying that undead template was not exactly the correct for what he was trying to create. He said that if he changed the type of creature to outsider, his cr would almost double... so...

Im making a monster who has a tarrasque as base. The tarrasque is CR 20 with 48 magical beast HD.

Initially I thought about only advancing him to a 60 HD magical beast, raising his CR to 24.

But now Im wondering if its better if the monster was undead. What should I do? Advance him to 60HD magical beast, and them make him a 60d12 HD undead? would that affect his CR?

I saw somewhere that undead has more HD(+1 cr per 4hd) so... if I make him a 60HD undead, would that actually lower his cr to 15?(60/4)?

Finally, I wanted an undead creature with tarraque as base, but compesate his far lower HP due to constitution loss... For a 24CR undead tarrasque, what would be the fair (and legal) hd he would become?
BlackHalfDragon
07-22-07, 06:17 PM CR is not simply a hd thing.

look at skeletons ans zombies

skeletons get 1 hit die and zombies 2 BUT they are the same cr ?

why so ? well a skeleton & DR vs non blunt ~= partial action zombie

so while a bigger zombie is more damage it has drawbacks.

look then at a varooguile. its only got 4 or 5 hps even tho its cr 2 ?

why becasue it flies, kisses you and casused your head to detatch !! that's why things have to be balanced.

Additonally the actualy are where the fight takes place effects cr

like if you have kobolds who happen to be standing under a vat of acid its quite less challenging if they are behind a wall at the top of a hill..
diegosephroth
07-23-07, 10:32 AM I see.

Look, the tarrasque is a 48Hd creature that has dmg reduction 15/epic. I advanced him to 60hd, and made the proper adjustments.

However, basing on his advancement, I raised his damage reduction to 20/-, making him considerably more resistant to damage. However, being /-, he loses his capacity to overcome other types of reduction(because his weapons were considered epic, now they are not).

Do you think that is a balanced change? or that might apply a CR adjustment?

1- Gain +5 damage reduction, it becomes /- instead of /epic.
2- Loses ability to tresspass damage reduction.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
diegosephroth 07-22-07, 05:10 PM	I saw a topic today, with a guy presenting a 90hd undead, and the others saying that undead template was not exactly the correct for what he was trying to create. He said that if he changed the type of creature to outsider, his cr would almost double... so... Im making a monster who has a tarrasque as base. The tarrasque is CR 20 with 48 magical beast HD. Initially I thought about only advancing him to a 60 HD magical beast, raising his CR to 24. But now Im wondering if its better if the monster was undead. What should I do? Advance him to 60HD magical beast, and them make him a 60d12 HD undead? would that affect his CR? I saw somewhere that undead has more HD(+1 cr per 4hd) so... if I make him a 60HD undead, would that actually lower his cr to 15?(60/4)? Finally, I wanted an undead creature with tarraque as base, but compesate his far lower HP due to constitution loss... For a 24CR undead tarrasque, what would be the fair (and legal) hd he would become?
BlackHalfDragon 07-22-07, 06:17 PM	CR is not simply a hd thing. look at skeletons ans zombies skeletons get 1 hit die and zombies 2 BUT they are the same cr ? why so ? well a skeleton & DR vs non blunt ~= partial action zombie so while a bigger zombie is more damage it has drawbacks. look then at a varooguile. its only got 4 or 5 hps even tho its cr 2 ? why becasue it flies, kisses you and casused your head to detatch !! that's why things have to be balanced. Additonally the actualy are where the fight takes place effects cr like if you have kobolds who happen to be standing under a vat of acid its quite less challenging if they are behind a wall at the top of a hill..
diegosephroth 07-23-07, 10:32 AM	I see. Look, the tarrasque is a 48Hd creature that has dmg reduction 15/epic. I advanced him to 60hd, and made the proper adjustments. However, basing on his advancement, I raised his damage reduction to 20/-, making him considerably more resistant to damage. However, being /-, he loses his capacity to overcome other types of reduction(because his weapons were considered epic, now they are not). Do you think that is a balanced change? or that might apply a CR adjustment? 1- Gain +5 damage reduction, it becomes /- instead of /epic. 2- Loses ability to tresspass damage reduction.