Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Warboss Morgrum 06-25-06, 01:19 AM	Do Constructs, like Undead, always use their racial HD when they take class levels? I.e., if a Maug (construct from FF) took three Sorcerer levels, would his HD and HP be A) 2d10 (racial)+3d4 (sorcerer)+30 (construct) or B) 2d10 (racial)+3d10 (sorcerer)+30(construct) I know that Undead always roll d12s for HD, as one of the benefits of losing a Con bonus, but I can't figure out if Constructs enjoy the same benefits. Thanks
Ogre4Hire 06-25-06, 01:56 AM	Actually, neither constructs nor undead use their racial HD types for class levels by default. Certain undead Templates, noteably the Lich and the Vampire, change all class HD to D12s, but aside from those exceptions, constructs & undead use the class's normal HD.
Warboss Morgrum 06-25-06, 02:06 AM	Ouch. It really sucks to be Undead then. The Constructs have +something for size, but Undead get nothing? I'd always thought Undead were a little weak, but that puts the last nail in the proverbial coffin. (Hehe, Undead + coffins = funny ;) )
Edwind 06-25-06, 02:20 AM	Ouch. It really sucks to be Undead then. The Constructs have +something for size, but Undead get nothing? I'd always thought Undead were a little weak, but that puts the last nail in the proverbial coffin. (Hehe, Undead + coffins = funny ;) ) Actually, if you were to give an undead, class levels. I would assume he would actually have levels in his undead type (e.g. Ghoul, Vampire, Mummy.) via Libris Mortis. So the undead levels HP gain would balance out the lose of HP gained from regular classes (Although, I can only assume, of course...) although it would be safe to assume by doing so, the undead in question wouldn't be as strong as the original undead from MM since by taking undead class levels, he may gain more HP, but lose out on other cool abilities like creating spawn, or a second slam attack.
ticattack 06-25-06, 02:48 AM	Actually, if you were to give an undead, class levels. I would assume he would actually have levels in his undead type (e.g. Ghoul, Vampire, Mummy.) via Libris Mortis. So the undead levels HP gain would balance out the lose of HP gained from regular classes (Although, I can only assume, of course...) although it would be safe to assume by doing so, the undead in question wouldn't be as strong as the original undead from MM since by taking undead class levels, he may gain more HP, but lose out on other cool abilities like creating spawn, or a second slam attack.Erm... No. You would not take the ghoul from the MM and give it levels in Ghoul. Those classes are designed to let you play a monster from level 1 - at the end of one of those classes' progressions, you should be more or less the same as the MM entry (the differences being feats, skill selection and so on). The way an undead advances is given in its MM entry. Ghouls can be given an extra HD, while vamps increase by character class. In the case of a vamp, it says: "increase all current and future hit dice to d12's.". So, a vamp's wizard levels have d12 HD. This still isn't a "racial hit die", thoughs - a vampire just uses d12's for all hit die, regardless of their source. Ouch. It really sucks to be Undead then. The Constructs have +something for size, but Undead get nothing? I'd always thought Undead were a little weak, but that puts the last nail in the proverbial coffin. (Hehe, Undead + coffins = funny )Well... I wouldn't say "nothing". They do get a slew of nifty immunities, if not their class levels, their racial HD are boosted to the highest in the game, they don't have to sleep or rest, or in some cases, eat... not a bad deal, by any means. Also, note that the "all HD are d12's" is on those that can actually gain class levels - a zombie, a ghoul, a skeleton all cannot gain them. This may not be universally true across published undead, but it's still something to remember. It would certainly not be unreasonable to apply this to all undead HD, be they class or racial - it would probably have a minimal effect, if any - but it would seem that the major "classed" undead - the vampire, the lich - have this covered, while those who don't have class levels - the zombie, the skeleton - don't.
cwslyclgh 06-25-06, 12:15 PM	a zombie, a ghoul, a skeleton all cannot gain themthis is wrong, a ghoul can gain class levels, any creature with an intelligence of 3 or higer can gain class levels, creatures that meet that requirement, but advance by HD rather then character class in the MM still have the ability to take class levels but rarely do. (In this way theya re actualy more versatile then creature that advance by HD only).
The Vorpal Tribble 06-27-06, 09:09 AM	any creature with an intelligence of 3 or higer can gain class levels Not neccessarily. The MM basically says that only humanoid creatures, or those with manipulative digits and other basic body parts should take class levels. So a unicorn could never become, say, a bard.
Callahan 06-27-06, 09:50 AM	Not neccessarily. The MM basically says that only humanoid creatures, or those with manipulative digits and other basic body parts should take class levels. So a unicorn could never become, say, a bard. http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/MonstersT-Z.rtf but it can become a 7th level cleric... I think you need to go read that book again.
The Vorpal Tribble 06-27-06, 10:16 AM	Well thats just plain stupid. A creature who turned into a unicorn couldn't cast spells with a somatic component, yet a unicorn itself can without any special feat? They don't have the body parts for it.
cwslyclgh 06-27-06, 01:14 PM	I always just assumed that they learned somantic components to go along with thier unique form... infact I would rule as a DM that if the unicorn was turned into a human somehow, it would lose the ability to cast spells with somantic components because it never learned how to correctly do them with it's hands.