Constructs... Criatures or objects? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Constructs... Criatures or objects? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Calabacin
06-30-04, 05:19 PM Hi!

I'm new to this forum so I hope I don't do anything wrong. Of course, if I do, simply tell me. (don't know a lot of nettiquette).

The thing is I have been searching all the books I have and all the FAQS and still haven't found an answer to my question; I hope someone can throw some light here:

My D&D Character is a 'TechSmith' (prestige class for Faerun's God 'Gond'), and he has the 'Craft construct' Feat. After spending a lot of time an money, he has built a couple of interesting constructs.

The question is, Can I heal my constructs? With cure spells? With the 'Heal' spell? Can't I?

After reading 3.5 rules, I have reached these conclusions:

-Constructs with INT are criatures, but not living
-Constructs without INT are animated objects
-Cure spells only works with LIVING creatures
-Heal spell works with any creature
-Gondsman (techsmith's construct) seems to be an exception sometimes

The point is, these facts change from book to book, and if construct creatures cannot be healed, they lose a lot of power: what if I played a construct or half-construct character?

Besides, cure spells do affect non-living creatures: they harm undead.

Could someone help me with this questions? Should I reconsider being a techsmith? should I reconsider crafting constructs?...

Thank you very much in advance,
Raul (Spain)
Tanuki, the Bewildered
06-30-04, 05:29 PM They have Wis and Cha scores. They're creatures, not objects.

The reason Cure spells harm undead is that Undead are animated by Negative energy, and thus treat Positive energy the way living creatures treat Negative energy.

Constructs treat them both the same - they're uneffected by them. (Specifically can't be healed, immune to Necromantic effects which use Neg. Energy are.)

Constructs are not living creatures, but they are creatures. They're typically animated by elemental energy, rather than Positive (living creatures) or Negative (undead) energy.
MetalGemini
06-30-04, 05:30 PM To the best of my knowledge, constructs are repaired and cannot be healed by any cure or heal spells.

From the 3.5 SRD:
Construct Type:
-- A construct is an animated object or artificially constructed creature.
—Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.

I think repairing them would be the easiest option. What the cost, if any, would be - I really don't know. For the constructs that are cured by elements, like fire, it would be easy enough to just cast something like burning hands on the construct and it will be healed.

As for the techsmith, its not a bad PrC to go into. IIRC, it gives rules for fixing your Gondsman in the description - but I could be mistaken. Keep going with the construct thing, it should be fun.
Hand of Vecna
06-30-04, 05:36 PM I think Tome & Blood had the repair minor/light/moderate/critical damage, used to "heal" Constructs. They were the same level as their Clerical counterparts, and repaired the same amount.
The ShapeLess One
06-30-04, 05:48 PM Could you post your constructs?
It is The Monster's Tair after all:)
Calabacin
06-30-04, 06:25 PM Cool! I didn't expect answers so fast! Thank you.

Well, answering to what you say, let me tell you some things:

Depending on what book you read it will say one thing or the opposite, I'll try to look again all that I have seen regarding this fact in all my books.

The funniest thing is that sometimes, the same book says one thing and the opposite (I love that), just to add more confusion, I guess.

As an example, let me include a small part of the explanation of the 'Gondsman' construct, that appears on the Techsmith Prestige Class description on book 'Faiths and Panteons' (Forgotten Realms):

"... Should a gondsman be damaged, the techsmith can repair it using artisan's tools at a rate of 1 hit point per hour. Alternatively, the mending spell can restore 1 hit point."

Up to this point, it seems you are all right and construct suck, but right after that it says:

"Since constructs are creatures, cure spells affect it normally"

Now, what does this mean? Cure spells affect them normally? you mean, they heal the construct? I'm not sure I understand.

Besides, if I can't cure my constructs, there is no reason why I would want to craft them. Making them only useful for Monsters. In that case, the Techsmith is a really crappy Prestige class...

Haven't I seen somewhere the 'half-construct' template? Perhaps on savage species?

Maybe gondsmen can be healed and normal constructs cannot?

Anyone has some book that includes all that stuff from Mechanus and can tell me something?

Thanx again!
Calabacin
06-30-04, 06:35 PM Oh, and thank you for those forgotten Repair spells, they kinda demonstrate that maybe constructs cannot be healed after all, but give me a chance to keep them working (alive).

A pity I'm a cleric, not a mage ;) Probably Gond is not willing to concede me those spells. I'll consider multi-classing.

I've seen some clockwork template somewhere in this forum, I might use it for some onstruct of mine... ;) (orange clockwork? lol)
Tanuki, the Bewildered
06-30-04, 07:47 PM Originally posted by Calabacin
"Since constructs are creatures, cure spells affect it normally"

Founds the problem.

F&P was written under 3.0.

Constructs complete immunity to both Positive and Negative energy was added in 3.5.

Talk to your DM about which version your Gondsman will work under.
Vanamir
07-01-04, 10:00 AM In addition the Monsternomicon from Privateer Press has suggested that you can "heal" constructs with spells like mending or fabricate. Unfortunately i forgot by which amount. :(
Mithral Icesilver
07-01-04, 04:33 PM Constructs are immune to both positive and negative energy, in both 3.0 AND 3.5. Faiths and Pantheons just happens to have a bloody typo (yes, I know I sound like I'm British. I'm not; I'm just Sigilian - I tend to speak the Cant without noticing.)

The "Half-Construct" template you referred to would be "Half-Golem." The Half-Flesh, Clay, Stone, and Iron golems are in the MMII, and the MMII web enhancement details half-Stained Glass, Brass, and Dragonflesh golems (pure golems of which are found in the MMII under the heading, Golem (p. 115 (I love nested parentheses))).
Calabacin
07-02-04, 06:33 AM I cannot see anywhere it says it is immune to that. Where is it?

Construct entry from the monster manual:

Traits: A construct possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).
-No Constitution score.
-Low-light vision
-Darkvision out to 60 feet.
-Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsion, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
-Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
-Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature's description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat (see page 303). A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.
-Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.
-Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).
-Not att risk of death from massive damage (see page 145 of the Player's Handbook). Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less.
-Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected.
-Becouse its body is a mass of unliving matter, a construct is hard to destroy. It gains bonus hit points based on size, as shown on teh following table.
...
-Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry.
-Proficient with no armor.
-Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe.
Calabacin
07-02-04, 06:36 AM In fact, constructs were immune to cure spells in 3.0 (they were necromantic), but cure spells are now conjuration spells...
Tanuki, the Bewildered
07-02-04, 08:49 AM Originally posted by Calabacin
cure spells in 3.0 (they were necromantic)

You must have an early printing of the PHB - or at least that's my best bet based on this bit. They've been Conjuration (Healing) as of the printing mine is from. The only healing spell to get through the net is Greater Restoration (still listed as Necromantic in my 3.0 PHB), but I've no real way of knowing if that was the 2e-3e net or a printing-printing net. It's been matched with all the others in 3.5.

Originally posted by Calabacin
-Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature's description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat (see page 303).

IE, positive energy does not effect them, they need to be repaired, not healed. (All Healing abilities save the cure spells fall under other immunities/weaknesses. They specifically can't be raised, they're immune to the effects that Restoration fixes (so can be assumed to be uneffected by Restoration anyway without any rules effects.), etc) The 3.0 entry on constructs was 'Cannot heal damage on their own, though they can be healed', which is both proof that they didn't have the immunity in 3.0 and an indicator that they're supposed to now (why change the phrasing, if not?).
LocalAreaLeech
10-12-04, 06:58 PM -Constructs with INT are criatures, but not living
-Constructs without INT are animated objects

Actually, Animated Objects are contructs without int scores, and having special rules in regards to things like hardness/DR.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Calabacin 06-30-04, 05:19 PM	Hi! I'm new to this forum so I hope I don't do anything wrong. Of course, if I do, simply tell me. (don't know a lot of nettiquette). The thing is I have been searching all the books I have and all the FAQS and still haven't found an answer to my question; I hope someone can throw some light here: My D&D Character is a 'TechSmith' (prestige class for Faerun's God 'Gond'), and he has the 'Craft construct' Feat. After spending a lot of time an money, he has built a couple of interesting constructs. The question is, Can I heal my constructs? With cure spells? With the 'Heal' spell? Can't I? After reading 3.5 rules, I have reached these conclusions: -Constructs with INT are criatures, but not living -Constructs without INT are animated objects -Cure spells only works with LIVING creatures -Heal spell works with any creature -Gondsman (techsmith's construct) seems to be an exception sometimes The point is, these facts change from book to book, and if construct creatures cannot be healed, they lose a lot of power: what if I played a construct or half-construct character? Besides, cure spells do affect non-living creatures: they harm undead. Could someone help me with this questions? Should I reconsider being a techsmith? should I reconsider crafting constructs?... Thank you very much in advance, Raul (Spain)
Tanuki, the Bewildered 06-30-04, 05:29 PM	They have Wis and Cha scores. They're creatures, not objects. The reason Cure spells harm undead is that Undead are animated by Negative energy, and thus treat Positive energy the way living creatures treat Negative energy. Constructs treat them both the same - they're uneffected by them. (Specifically can't be healed, immune to Necromantic effects which use Neg. Energy are.) Constructs are not living creatures, but they are creatures. They're typically animated by elemental energy, rather than Positive (living creatures) or Negative (undead) energy.
MetalGemini 06-30-04, 05:30 PM	To the best of my knowledge, constructs are repaired and cannot be healed by any cure or heal spells. From the 3.5 SRD: Construct Type: -- A construct is an animated object or artificially constructed creature. —Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality. I think repairing them would be the easiest option. What the cost, if any, would be - I really don't know. For the constructs that are cured by elements, like fire, it would be easy enough to just cast something like burning hands on the construct and it will be healed. As for the techsmith, its not a bad PrC to go into. IIRC, it gives rules for fixing your Gondsman in the description - but I could be mistaken. Keep going with the construct thing, it should be fun.
Hand of Vecna 06-30-04, 05:36 PM	I think Tome & Blood had the repair minor/light/moderate/critical damage, used to "heal" Constructs. They were the same level as their Clerical counterparts, and repaired the same amount.
The ShapeLess One 06-30-04, 05:48 PM	Could you post your constructs? It is The Monster's Tair after all:)
Calabacin 06-30-04, 06:25 PM	Cool! I didn't expect answers so fast! Thank you. Well, answering to what you say, let me tell you some things: Depending on what book you read it will say one thing or the opposite, I'll try to look again all that I have seen regarding this fact in all my books. The funniest thing is that sometimes, the same book says one thing and the opposite (I love that), just to add more confusion, I guess. As an example, let me include a small part of the explanation of the 'Gondsman' construct, that appears on the Techsmith Prestige Class description on book 'Faiths and Panteons' (Forgotten Realms): "... Should a gondsman be damaged, the techsmith can repair it using artisan's tools at a rate of 1 hit point per hour. Alternatively, the mending spell can restore 1 hit point." Up to this point, it seems you are all right and construct suck, but right after that it says: "Since constructs are creatures, cure spells affect it normally" Now, what does this mean? Cure spells affect them normally? you mean, they heal the construct? I'm not sure I understand. Besides, if I can't cure my constructs, there is no reason why I would want to craft them. Making them only useful for Monsters. In that case, the Techsmith is a really crappy Prestige class... Haven't I seen somewhere the 'half-construct' template? Perhaps on savage species? Maybe gondsmen can be healed and normal constructs cannot? Anyone has some book that includes all that stuff from Mechanus and can tell me something? Thanx again!
Calabacin 06-30-04, 06:35 PM	Oh, and thank you for those forgotten Repair spells, they kinda demonstrate that maybe constructs cannot be healed after all, but give me a chance to keep them working (alive). A pity I'm a cleric, not a mage ;) Probably Gond is not willing to concede me those spells. I'll consider multi-classing. I've seen some clockwork template somewhere in this forum, I might use it for some onstruct of mine... ;) (orange clockwork? lol)
Tanuki, the Bewildered 06-30-04, 07:47 PM	Originally posted by Calabacin "Since constructs are creatures, cure spells affect it normally" Founds the problem. F&P was written under 3.0. Constructs complete immunity to both Positive and Negative energy was added in 3.5. Talk to your DM about which version your Gondsman will work under.
Vanamir 07-01-04, 10:00 AM	In addition the Monsternomicon from Privateer Press has suggested that you can "heal" constructs with spells like mending or fabricate. Unfortunately i forgot by which amount. :(
Mithral Icesilver 07-01-04, 04:33 PM	Constructs are immune to both positive and negative energy, in both 3.0 AND 3.5. Faiths and Pantheons just happens to have a bloody typo (yes, I know I sound like I'm British. I'm not; I'm just Sigilian - I tend to speak the Cant without noticing.) The "Half-Construct" template you referred to would be "Half-Golem." The Half-Flesh, Clay, Stone, and Iron golems are in the MMII, and the MMII web enhancement details half-Stained Glass, Brass, and Dragonflesh golems (pure golems of which are found in the MMII under the heading, Golem (p. 115 (I love nested parentheses))).
Calabacin 07-02-04, 06:33 AM	I cannot see anywhere it says it is immune to that. Where is it? Construct entry from the monster manual: Traits: A construct possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry). -No Constitution score. -Low-light vision -Darkvision out to 60 feet. -Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsion, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). -Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects. -Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature's description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat (see page 303). A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality. -Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain. -Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless). -Not att risk of death from massive damage (see page 145 of the Player's Handbook). Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less. -Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected. -Becouse its body is a mass of unliving matter, a construct is hard to destroy. It gains bonus hit points based on size, as shown on teh following table. ... -Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry. -Proficient with no armor. -Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe.
Calabacin 07-02-04, 06:36 AM	In fact, constructs were immune to cure spells in 3.0 (they were necromantic), but cure spells are now conjuration spells...
Tanuki, the Bewildered 07-02-04, 08:49 AM	Originally posted by Calabacin cure spells in 3.0 (they were necromantic) You must have an early printing of the PHB - or at least that's my best bet based on this bit. They've been Conjuration (Healing) as of the printing mine is from. The only healing spell to get through the net is Greater Restoration (still listed as Necromantic in my 3.0 PHB), but I've no real way of knowing if that was the 2e-3e net or a printing-printing net. It's been matched with all the others in 3.5. Originally posted by Calabacin -Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature's description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat (see page 303). IE, positive energy does not effect them, they need to be repaired, not healed. (All Healing abilities save the cure spells fall under other immunities/weaknesses. They specifically can't be raised, they're immune to the effects that Restoration fixes (so can be assumed to be uneffected by Restoration anyway without any rules effects.), etc) The 3.0 entry on constructs was 'Cannot heal damage on their own, though they can be healed', which is both proof that they didn't have the immunity in 3.0 and an indicator that they're supposed to now (why change the phrasing, if not?).
LocalAreaLeech 10-12-04, 06:58 PM	-Constructs with INT are criatures, but not living -Constructs without INT are animated objects Actually, Animated Objects are contructs without int scores, and having special rules in regards to things like hardness/DR.