Copper Dragon disguises [Archive] - Wizards Community

Copper Dragon disguises [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gadren
07-22-07, 05:54 PM Hey, I want to introduce a copper dragon into my campaign that typically stays in disguise as an elf. However, polymorph's short duration seems to make it unsuitable for a long-term disguise, and copper dragons don't have Alternate Form like their gold and silver cousins.
What would you say is the best option? Age category is adult or older.
lord_zack
07-22-07, 08:23 PM I'd say just give it alernate form. Come up with a reason, like "It's a gift from his diety" or It's a random mutation", or "His grandfather was a gold/silver dragon". Remember the rules are just guidelines. If it's good for you're story, do it. Alternetively there maybe a magic item he could use, I'll check.
Gadren
07-25-07, 12:43 AM Nobody knows of anything that works within existing rules?
lord_zack
07-25-07, 03:26 PM Nothing that I know of, sorry.
Wauthan
07-25-07, 03:51 PM Poor advice perhaps but I managed to overcome a similar problem in one of my campaigns. The dragon has an elf ally that is a specialist in Disguise. They work together to create a shared identity that benefits both of them. The elf mantains the identity during everyday life, as well as long public appearances, leaving the dragon free to "borrow" the identity when it needs to move around in secret.

It worked well in my game and caused a lot of amusing confusion amongst my players. "What do you mean you don't detect any magic on him? He turned into a freaking dragon last night!"

Since players expect magic to be the universal solution they can get mighty suprised when they encounter "common" subterfuge.
Dazzer
07-25-07, 04:00 PM I am currently playing in a campaign where the PC's are all dragons.

One of them is a Copper Dragon. This is how he solves the problem of being really small in comparison to the amount of horde he has, it may also give you a cool idea of how to really trick your players.

His horde comprises of the regular dragon stuff. Remove 3000gp (minimum) and place the following things in his horde.

You now have, 300,000cp to play with, otherwise known as: 6000 pounds of copper. The Copper dragon (who has a cool little gnome who follows him around (perhaps out of friendship). Has the gnome carve statues out of the copper coins, that are identical (as close as possible) to the copper dragon...life size.

About 2000 pounds of statues later, you have around 8-12 statues of life-size small copper dragons (for bigger dragons I suggest making hollow statues!). the rest of the copper pieces are literally dumped from the sky on the rest of the horde...therefore...it's impossible to find anything (including a sleeping copper dragon at the bottom with his head sticking out). How do you find the 5-7 inch gem worth 1,200gp when there are hundreds of thousands of copper pieces all over the place? HOW?

If you really wanna make things worse, place antique mirrors in the horde at strategic locations, to give the appearance that the statues are actually moving a little, giving a creepy feeling to the horde-room...and making it impossible to tell what's a statue, and what's an actual angry copper dragon.

I hope this helps! (I realize it doesn't quite answer your question, but I thought it might be nice to share this!)

Edit: Perhaps create a magic item which allows the dragon to Polymorph several times, or extends the duration of a polymorph. Or better yet an item that is very specific. It allows the dragon to polymorph into an ELF, for 1 hour per use. 3 uses per day. Or something like that. It wouldn't be too expensive since it's so specific.
Kesthol
07-25-07, 08:17 PM ... One of them is a Copper Dragon. This is how he solves the problem of being really small in comparison to the amount of horde he has, it may also give you a cool idea of how to really trick your players.

His horde comprises of the regular dragon stuff. Remove 3000gp (minimum) and place the following things in his horde.

(emphasis added)

The word is HOARD.
hoard (n) -- a pile of treasure; to hoard (v) to keep in a stockpile that others don't have access to. For example, "The wizard looted the dragon's hoard. The dragon hoarded wizard skulls thenceforth."
horde (n) -- a huge mob of uncivilized beings (generally of orcs or goblinoids in D&D, or in WoW, of orcs, trolls, and their allies), who are generally on the warpath. May also simply mean a great number of beings. For example: "The orcish hordes are advancing, Sir."
Lionhearted
07-25-07, 08:25 PM DM rule no 1: It's your world
want the copper to be able to shapechange, *snap* done there you go
spncrbrrtt
07-26-07, 11:02 AM or just give him an item, maybe an improved hat of disguise.
Gadren
08-25-07, 03:37 PM How about this spell? I can't determine a good spell level for it though.
Input please?

Humanoid Form
Transmutation
Level: Brd ?, Sor/Wiz ?
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)

You assume the form of a creature of the humanoid (or monstrous humanoid) type. The new form must be small or medium size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself, if you are a medium or small-sized humanoid.

You retain your own ability scores. Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack).

You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels.

If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components.

You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.

You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.

You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form. Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype.

You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.

When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can’t wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.
Wolf72
08-26-07, 09:43 PM there's a feat from Dragonlance that will help immensely ... no sure if it's open source ... but here is the basics

any dragon of a certain caster level (say the caster level needed for polymorph self ... or lower, think of number divisible by 5)

gives alternate shape 1x/day ... the alternate shape you can stay in as long as you want.
Choos
08-28-07, 07:54 AM Though other people have better ideas I would just give the Copper a magic item that does what you want.

As an example:

Cloak of Continuos Polymorph
This cloak allows the wearer to utilise the Polymorph spell continuosly.
Cost 112,400gp. Cost to create 56,000gp (plus 400 for the cloak) 4,480xp and 112days.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gadren 07-22-07, 05:54 PM	Hey, I want to introduce a copper dragon into my campaign that typically stays in disguise as an elf. However, polymorph's short duration seems to make it unsuitable for a long-term disguise, and copper dragons don't have Alternate Form like their gold and silver cousins. What would you say is the best option? Age category is adult or older.
lord_zack 07-22-07, 08:23 PM	I'd say just give it alernate form. Come up with a reason, like "It's a gift from his diety" or It's a random mutation", or "His grandfather was a gold/silver dragon". Remember the rules are just guidelines. If it's good for you're story, do it. Alternetively there maybe a magic item he could use, I'll check.
Gadren 07-25-07, 12:43 AM	Nobody knows of anything that works within existing rules?
lord_zack 07-25-07, 03:26 PM	Nothing that I know of, sorry.
Wauthan 07-25-07, 03:51 PM	Poor advice perhaps but I managed to overcome a similar problem in one of my campaigns. The dragon has an elf ally that is a specialist in Disguise. They work together to create a shared identity that benefits both of them. The elf mantains the identity during everyday life, as well as long public appearances, leaving the dragon free to "borrow" the identity when it needs to move around in secret. It worked well in my game and caused a lot of amusing confusion amongst my players. "What do you mean you don't detect any magic on him? He turned into a freaking dragon last night!" Since players expect magic to be the universal solution they can get mighty suprised when they encounter "common" subterfuge.
Dazzer 07-25-07, 04:00 PM	I am currently playing in a campaign where the PC's are all dragons. One of them is a Copper Dragon. This is how he solves the problem of being really small in comparison to the amount of horde he has, it may also give you a cool idea of how to really trick your players. His horde comprises of the regular dragon stuff. Remove 3000gp (minimum) and place the following things in his horde. You now have, 300,000cp to play with, otherwise known as: 6000 pounds of copper. The Copper dragon (who has a cool little gnome who follows him around (perhaps out of friendship). Has the gnome carve statues out of the copper coins, that are identical (as close as possible) to the copper dragon...life size. About 2000 pounds of statues later, you have around 8-12 statues of life-size small copper dragons (for bigger dragons I suggest making hollow statues!). the rest of the copper pieces are literally dumped from the sky on the rest of the horde...therefore...it's impossible to find anything (including a sleeping copper dragon at the bottom with his head sticking out). How do you find the 5-7 inch gem worth 1,200gp when there are hundreds of thousands of copper pieces all over the place? HOW? If you really wanna make things worse, place antique mirrors in the horde at strategic locations, to give the appearance that the statues are actually moving a little, giving a creepy feeling to the horde-room...and making it impossible to tell what's a statue, and what's an actual angry copper dragon. I hope this helps! (I realize it doesn't quite answer your question, but I thought it might be nice to share this!) Edit: Perhaps create a magic item which allows the dragon to Polymorph several times, or extends the duration of a polymorph. Or better yet an item that is very specific. It allows the dragon to polymorph into an ELF, for 1 hour per use. 3 uses per day. Or something like that. It wouldn't be too expensive since it's so specific.
Kesthol 07-25-07, 08:17 PM	... One of them is a Copper Dragon. This is how he solves the problem of being really small in comparison to the amount of horde he has, it may also give you a cool idea of how to really trick your players. His horde comprises of the regular dragon stuff. Remove 3000gp (minimum) and place the following things in his horde. (emphasis added) The word is HOARD. hoard (n) -- a pile of treasure; to hoard (v) to keep in a stockpile that others don't have access to. For example, "The wizard looted the dragon's hoard. The dragon hoarded wizard skulls thenceforth." horde (n) -- a huge mob of uncivilized beings (generally of orcs or goblinoids in D&D, or in WoW, of orcs, trolls, and their allies), who are generally on the warpath. May also simply mean a great number of beings. For example: "The orcish hordes are advancing, Sir."
Lionhearted 07-25-07, 08:25 PM	DM rule no 1: It's your world want the copper to be able to shapechange, snap done there you go
spncrbrrtt 07-26-07, 11:02 AM	or just give him an item, maybe an improved hat of disguise.
Gadren 08-25-07, 03:37 PM	How about this spell? I can't determine a good spell level for it though. Input please? Humanoid Form Transmutation Level: Brd ?, Sor/Wiz ? Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 hour/level (D) You assume the form of a creature of the humanoid (or monstrous humanoid) type. The new form must be small or medium size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself, if you are a medium or small-sized humanoid. You retain your own ability scores. Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack). You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels. If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components. You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal. You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth. You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form. Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype. You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check. When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can’t wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.
Wolf72 08-26-07, 09:43 PM	there's a feat from Dragonlance that will help immensely ... no sure if it's open source ... but here is the basics any dragon of a certain caster level (say the caster level needed for polymorph self ... or lower, think of number divisible by 5) gives alternate shape 1x/day ... the alternate shape you can stay in as long as you want.
Choos 08-28-07, 07:54 AM	Though other people have better ideas I would just give the Copper a magic item that does what you want. As an example: Cloak of Continuos Polymorph This cloak allows the wearer to utilise the Polymorph spell continuosly. Cost 112,400gp. Cost to create 56,000gp (plus 400 for the cloak) 4,480xp and 112days.