Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thorsbjorn 11-25-07, 11:51 PM	According to the Monster Manual, copper dragons are incorrigible pranksters, jokers and riddlers. (Riddle me this, Batman!) I was wondering if anyone had any good pranks, jokes or riddles that as DM they've had copper dragons use (or as a player have heard or seen copper dragons use). At one time the party in the campaign I'm running had two dragon familiars, a silver and a copper. One time when the silver was neatly arranging her coins into stacks the copper jumping into the middle of them and scattered them all over. She slapped him with her tail but when she realized she could now re-stack them all neatly, she liked it. Silvers! :) Another time she fooled the copper into helping her get the wagons off the road, where the party had foolishly left them to run into a fight, by telling her they were playing a prank on the party by hiding the wagons. That was fun too. :) I was thinking it would be fun to have an NPC copper turn into a giant scorpion but instead of attacking the party do a dance instead, just to confound them. But coppers don't have the alternate form special ability, and even if they did, it doesn't allow turning into a vermin, just a humanoid or animal of medium or small size. I suppose if it were high enough level to known polymorph it could do it. So anyway what pranks, jokes or riddles have your copper dragons used? :)
LivingShadow 11-26-07, 05:53 PM	The easiest ideas would include the standard Grease spell when they are decending the stairs, alarm spell on the latrine, bucket of water on door trap, etc. Alternatively you could have use it to make puns. For example the PCs tell it to break the door down (Using the phrase "Break it down." IE "We break it down on the count of three.") and instead the Copper break dances across the floor.
snakeman830 11-26-07, 06:45 PM	There's a Forgotten Realms novel titled The Rage. One of the characters in it is a copper dragon and has a lot of jokes/pranks in it. Read it (and perhaps its sequels, I haven't read them yet) for ideas.
Thorsbjorn 11-27-07, 07:48 AM	Thank you both for the ideas. Any others? :)
Garonak 11-27-07, 01:34 PM	A couple of years ago I found this netbook, it got some great ideas. Netbook of Practical Jokes and Pranks (http://gnba.netdemons.com/books/olik/Files/JokesPranks_W60.zip). You could also take a look at this site:Olik's AD&D Pages - NetBooks & Guides (http://gnba.netdemons.com/books/olik/NetBooks_Guides.html), could be something more there you'd like
Kraven_Redcloak 11-29-07, 10:12 PM	A while back in one of our campaigns our DM had a caravan unknowingly pass under a flight of metallic dragons, during the middle of it he had a copper come down and destroy one of the empty wagons as a joke which scared off the rest of the party since they all thought it was attacking. Though it was a little more full body contact than usual I think that is more along the lines of what a copper would do as joke. Though if you want a better idea you probably should read the first two books in The Year of the Rogue Dragon, particularly the parts that have to deal with Chatulio, as well as the two anthologies that follow it. Promise of the Witch King and The Road to the Patriarch also offer a good example of how a copper, or pair of them, would act when dealing with nondragons.
Thorsbjorn 11-30-07, 12:28 AM	A couple of years ago I found this netbook, it got some great ideas. Netbook of Practical Jokes and Pranks (http://gnba.netdemons.com/books/olik/Files/JokesPranks_W60.zip). You could also take a look at this site:Olik's AD&D Pages - NetBooks & Guides (http://gnba.netdemons.com/books/olik/NetBooks_Guides.html), could be something more there you'd like Thanks. Sorry to take so long to reply. I was trying to grade all my students' book reviews so I could take my birthday off. I downloaded the pranks file, and the only one that really fits with my image of the copper dragon is the palm read/red one. I suspect that the prank wouldn't be funny in Draconic (or any other non-English language) but since we actually run the campaign speaking English, I could probably get away with it. :D Thanks for all the information. Destroying a wagon as a practical joke? It sounds too violent for a good dragon. I could see a copper dragon of sufficiently high level maybe polymorphing itself into a draft horse and then doing things like refusing to pull the wagon. For that matter it could do the dancing scorpion trick. Are there any quick examples from the books you suggest? One friend gave me five books for my birthday so I think it'll be some time before I read any books just to get copper dragon tricks out of them. If they're all too complex to summarize quickly, I understand. Thanks! :)
Garonak 11-30-07, 09:23 AM	Thanks. Sorry to take so long to reply. I was trying to grade all my students' book reviews so I could take my birthday off. mmm.... grading... worst thing about being a teacher...
Keenath 11-30-07, 10:19 AM	Two pranks I used as a Gnome illusionist: We were running Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. In the Moathouse section, there's a segment where the Elemental Eye offers you his dark blessing, in the form of a permanent +1 to a single random ability score. There's no drawback to accepting it, but it's a little creepy to be accepting gifts from the source of evil that you're trying to destroy. Well, in my party, everyone refused except me (I got a +1 to my already impressive CON), and nothing seemed to be wrong... Until I started using the color-changing option of Prestidigitation to make my fingernails turn black and my skin to slowly go pale over several days... Everyone was sure the blessing had infected me and turned me evil or something... :D The paladin actually used Detect Evil on me several times in the next few days! (Always came back negative, of course, because I was only chaotic -- not evil!) I think I eventually went back to normal and let them know it was just a joke, but the Pally was always suspicious becuase he suspected that an illusion might be able to deflect alignment detection. And then later on one of the other PCs ticked off my illusionist, so during his turn on watch, I give the DM a ninja note: I used my Ghost Sound cantrip to create the sound of a dozen men's voices droning in wordless harmony, as if in some sort of ritual, coming from somewhere out in the forest. The sound cut off suddenly as I stopped concentrating, and I used my racial Dancing Lights ability with the "human form" option, a glowing purplish humanoid shape advancing out of the trees towards the party... The guy on watch took a swing at it, and I just dismissed the illusion and played innocent.... that freaked out the party until we got out of the forest, at which point I let the other players in on it and got pelted with dice. (I note that, had I wanted to do it even better, I could've added a second use of Ghost Sound after casting the Dancing Lights, because DL requires no action to direct them or maintain them, so you could add some sort of appropriate creepy noise, footsteps, whatever, to the glowing form as it moves around...)
Thorsbjorn 11-30-07, 10:24 AM	mmm.... grading... worst thing about being a teacher... When I taught at a university it was definitely the worst thing. I'm teaching at a community college now, however, and most of these kids do not belong in any sort of school. Most of them cannot stand to be taking classes, do not want to learn, and do not want to try. They're there because their parents don't know what else do to with them--sort of babysitting for older teens. (Hey, did you notice I managed to get three homonyms in the same sentence? :P) It's a major waste though of their money and the taxpayers' money, and rather disheartening for me. So oddly enough grading their papers, even though some of the kids write at a grammar school level, has become not the worst part of teaching. Maybe in my online class it still is, but in my traditional class being in the classroom with kids who visibly hate being there, who smirk at me in contempt for having the audacity to bother trying to teach them anything is far worse than grading the little book reviews I have then write. Don't get me wrong. I do have one or two students who actually want to be there. It's a three-hour class and when I give them a break in the middle two-thirds of the class bolts for the door and doesn't return. The ones who stay after the break do at least try, even if many of them aren't really well-suited to an academic environment. After the break is the best time, when all the disruptive, sneering jerks are gone. I have a couple of adult student in the class, around my age (47 yesterday), who tell me the same jerks disrupt all their other classes, wasting their time. One of those students wrote an excellent book review, at least by community college standards. One day when I was dreading starting on the reviews for her section I read her review first hoping it would be decent and get me started, and it was. Anyway, speaking of school and pranks, way back in high school in the 1970s I had a drafting teacher who used to say and do the goofiest things. The one that stands out best in my mind is that he left the room, then crawled by in on his hands and knees so that we couldn't see him over our drafting tables. In the middle of our chatting and goofing off he suddenly stood up behind his desk in the front and we nearly had a heart attack! I think that's the sort of prank a copper dragon might pull. :D Two pranks I used as a Gnome illusionist: We were running Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. In the Moathouse section, there's a segment where the Elemental Eye offers you his dark blessing, in the form of a permanent +1 to a single random ability score. There's no drawback to accepting it, but it's a little creepy to be accepting gifts from the source of evil that you're trying to destroy. Well, in my party, everyone refused except me (I got a +1 to my already impressive CON), and nothing seemed to be wrong... Until I started using the color-changing option of Prestidigitation to make my fingernails turn black and my skin to slowly go pale over several days... Everyone was sure the blessing had infected me and turned me evil or something... :D The paladin actually used Detect Evil on me several times in the next few days! (Always came back negative, of course, because I was only chaotic -- not evil!) I think I eventually went back to normal and let them know it was just a joke, but the Pally was always suspicious becuase he suspected that an illusion might be able to deflect alignment detection. And then later on one of the other PCs ticked off my illusionist, so during his turn on watch, I give the DM a ninja note: I used my Ghost Sound cantrip to create the sound of a dozen men's voices droning in wordless harmony, as if in some sort of ritual, coming from somewhere out in the forest. The sound cut off suddenly as I stopped concentrating, and I used my racial Dancing Lights ability with the "human form" option, a glowing purplish humanoid shape advancing out of the trees towards the party... The guy on watch took a swing at it, and I just dismissed the illusion and played innocent.... that freaked out the party until we got out of the forest, at which point I let the other players in on it and got pelted with dice. (I note that, had I wanted to do it even better, I could've added a second use of Ghost Sound after casting the Dancing Lights, because DL requires no action to direct them or maintain them, so you could add some sort of appropriate creepy noise, footsteps, whatever, to the glowing form as it moves around...) :rofl: I actually did laugh out loud when I read the part about them pelting you with dice. That was all great! I played in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, but we never got as far as the Moat House (?). I do recall the party seeing a rust monster down below and my big, bad half-celestial barbarian deciding just to let it be. :D So did your gnome ever suffer any negative consequence of accepting that +1 bonus? I played a deep gnome fighter/illusionist under AD&D (1st Ed) rules, and a buddy of mine played his cousin, a thief/illusionist. I don't recall playing any tricks on anyone, but I do recall the two of them hiding around the corner drinking from a flask of dragon brandy and giggling their butts off while our other characters all lined up to bash down a door and get into the big, bad fight of that particular adventure. The party's human cavalier kicked open the door and one of the big bad guys cast a lightning bolt down the hallway in which the human cavalier, an elven cavalier, my other character (a human barbarian) and the other character of the other deep gnome's player (a human druid I think) where standing. They all took it in the face but out goofy deep gnomes were too busy getting tipsy around the corner to get hit. :D A bit before that adventure in another campaign in which everyone in that group originally played (we left and formed our own group because we didn't like the DM) I had that same human barbarian play a trick on everyone. We got caught in some sort of weird time bubble and we were trapped. (Eventually my barbarian just smashed the cube creating the bubble and we got out.) The party's elven thief/magic user put rocks around the perimeter of the time bubble so we could tell if it was slowly closing in on us. I had my barbarian go take a leak and then go move the rocks outward toward the edge of the time bubble. When the elf checked later he started freaking out, and so did everyone else. I laughed and after allowing them a suitable time to see their lives flash before their time, I admitted that I'd done it. The player of the ninja character just muttered bitterly, "barbarian sense of humor." That made me laugh the most. Many of these practical jokes are, well, practical for a copper dragon to pull on the party in my campaign, but I'm sure enjoying hearing about (or remembering) them! Please keep them coming! :D
Keenath 11-30-07, 10:52 AM	:rofl: I actually did laugh out loud when I read the part about them pelting you with dice. That was all great! My brother reminded me that I actually didn't just stop being pale and black-fingernailed. One morning, I got up and made myself turn plaid. So did your gnome ever suffer any negative consequence of accepting that +1 bonus?Nah. There really weren't any negatives to taking it, unless you tried to get blessed a second time (at which point you took 2 points of permanent drain to the stat that was boosted the first time). It's just that it's (A) a random stat, which has probably an even chance of being worth nothing to you, and (B) it's really creepy to accept -- everyone (including yourself) keeps wondering if you "owe" the Eye something... Are you sure you never got to the moathouse? As I recall, that's the first dungeon in the module. It's the one with a giant pillar in the middle of it that goes down a 300 foot deep hole and radiates a supernatural chill. Lots of people have been killed or endangered by the Grell that lurks in the shadows. (It has a habit of paralyzing somebody and dragging them off into midair, either returning to its nest to eat them, or just dropping them 300 feet.) I had a story about THAT too, actually -- I got paralyzed and dragged over the edge, but the party archer dropped the Grell before it disappeared with me.... at which point the Grell dropped ME. I had one turn left on my paralysis, so the DM ruled that I fell 150 feet in the first turn (as per long-distance-falling rules) and then deparalyzed in midair, and I could use my Featherfall to break the fall and drift down. That was close. ...I always prepped a Silent Spell featherfall after that (since you can use a silent featherfall as a purely mental action, unaffected by paralysis)...
Thorsbjorn 11-30-07, 12:47 PM	My brother reminded me that I actually didn't just stop being pale and black-fingernailed. One morning, I got up and made myself turn plaid. Nah. There really weren't any negatives to taking it, unless you tried to get blessed a second time (at which point you took 2 points of permanent drain to the stat that was boosted the first time). It's just that it's (A) a random stat, which has probably an even chance of being worth nothing to you, and (B) it's really creepy to accept -- everyone (including yourself) keeps wondering if you "owe" the Eye something... Are you sure you never got to the moathouse? As I recall, that's the first dungeon in the module. It's the one with a giant pillar in the middle of it that goes down a 300 foot deep hole and radiates a supernatural chill. Lots of people have been killed or endangered by the Grell that lurks in the shadows. (It has a habit of paralyzing somebody and dragging them off into midair, either returning to its nest to eat them, or just dropping them 300 feet.) I had a story about THAT too, actually -- I got paralyzed and dragged over the edge, but the party archer dropped the Grell before it disappeared with me.... at which point the Grell dropped ME. I had one turn left on my paralysis, so the DM ruled that I fell 150 feet in the first turn (as per long-distance-falling rules) and then deparalyzed in midair, and I could use my Featherfall to break the fall and drift down. That was close. ...I always prepped a Silent Spell featherfall after that (since you can use a silent featherfall as a purely mental action, unaffected by paralysis)... Plaid? That's great. How did they respond to that? Maybe they thought you'd been granted a benefit by the god of evil fashion. :P I don't recall a grell or a 300-foot drop. I recall railroad tracks and two levels. I recall a basilisk in a side cavern near the start of the tracks. I recall the rust monster later on down below. I recall coming to the end of the tracks near an underground lake, and a dragon that attacked us there. I don't recall the type of dragon, but I think it was either black or green because it grabbed my half-celestial barbarian in its mouth and dove into the lake, so it probably had water breathing. I remember thinking he was probably a goner, since unlike the dragon he couldn't breathe water. I remember that on my next turn my character won his opposed Strength check, and that he, the dragon, the DM and I were all pretty much surprised when he ripped its jaws open and swam back to the surface. We actually ended up defeating that dragon and getting its treasure. I don't really remember anything beyond that point. That's great about your character just escaping by the skin of his teeth. Those are some of the best moments in the game--when you turn what seems like certain death into life and even victory. I still have this powerful image in my head of both my barbarian and the dragon with their eyes wide in surprise an instant after my barbarian ripped open its jaws. That was priceless--much better than if it has never looked like it would just drown him. :)
Keenath 11-30-07, 01:56 PM	Plaid? That's great. How did they respond to that? Maybe they thought you'd been granted a benefit by the god of evil fashion. :PNah, that's when they worked out that I was screwing with them with my illusion powers. I don't recall a grell or a 300-foot drop. I recall railroad tracks and two levels. I recall a basilisk in a side cavern near the start of the tracks. I recall the rust monster later on down below. I recall coming to the end of the tracks near an underground lake, and a dragon that attacked us there. I don't recall the type of dragon, but I think it was either black or green because it grabbed my half-celestial barbarian in its mouth and dove into the lake, so it probably had water breathing. I remember thinking he was probably a goner, since unlike the dragon he couldn't breathe water.Uh.... Possibly you're thinking of Forge of Fury...? Return to the ToEE starts out in Hommlet, then moves to the moathouse (with the exterior guarded by a young blue dragon) and inside is the first dungeon, with gnolls and a coupla oozes and an undead-controlling evil cleric.
Thorsbjorn 11-30-07, 02:10 PM	Nah, that's when they worked out that I was screwing with them with my illusion powers. Uh.... Possibly you're thinking of Forge of Fury...? Return to the ToEE starts out in Hommlet, then moves to the moathouse (with the exterior guarded by a young blue dragon) and inside is the first dungeon, with gnolls and a coupla oozes and an undead-controlling evil cleric. No, I own the Forge of Fury and it definitely wasn't that campaign. Are you talking about the original Temple of Elemental Evil (which I own but haven't played) or the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (in which I had that half-celestial barbarian)? I joined the campaign already in progress, so they'd left Hommlet behind. I never encountered the moathouse, gnolls, oozes or undead-controlling cleric. I suspect that by the time I joined the party at 5th level they'd already gotten well past that. I do remember fighting a bunch of some sort of humanoids, taking out a bunch with Great Flyby Attack stuck in a room all by myself while the rest of the party fought a bunch more outside the room, but I don't recall what sort of humanoids they were. I do recall later we ran across troglodytes, perhaps after the dragon encounter. Once you get to the dungeons arrayed around the volcano you can go many ways, and you might just not have gone the way we went. :) Since I don't have the module, I can't look to see where you were in relation to where we were.
Keenath 11-30-07, 02:16 PM	Are you talking about the original Temple of Elemental Evil (which I own but haven't played) or the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (in which I had that half-celestial barbarian)? I joined the campaign already in progress, so they'd left Hommlet behind.No, okay, it's RttToEE we played, but like I say, the moathouse is the first thing you do in that module. If you joined late it's just you missed that part -- which is a shame, really, because the moathouse with its pit-and-grell combo is one of the most well-known spots in that module... and one of the most deadly, due to the combination of climbing (which negates your ability to dodge), with a monster that specializes in paralytic poison and grappling, and a giant pit that's virtually instant death if you fall in it. It's a loooong campaign, so I'm not shocked if I don't recall the exact stuff you were talking about. Sounds like something from the Water Temple, too, which my group never really delved into much, as I recall.
Thorsbjorn 11-30-07, 02:36 PM	No, okay, it's RttToEE we played, but like I say, the moathouse is the first thing you do in that module. If you joined late it's just you missed that part -- which is a shame, really, because the moathouse with its pit-and-grell combo is one of the most well-known spots in that module... and one of the most deadly, due to the combination of climbing (which negates your ability to dodge), with a monster that specializes in paralytic poison and grappling, and a giant pit that's virtually instant death if you fall in it. It's a loooong campaign, so I'm not shocked if I don't recall the exact stuff you were talking about. Sounds like something from the Water Temple, too, which my group never really delved into much, as I recall. Probably if I'd joined the campaign earlier I couldn't have played the half-celestial. I'm not surprised that something from early in the module people know the best because so few campaigns really last all that long. I've been in a great many that didn't go past about third level, and a few more than never got past about 8th. I've been in only two campaigns as a player that got past 10th, and only one that got past 16th. My own players now have characters in the 20-22 range. The water breathing dragon was just awesome. It's too bad you didn't run across that part of the adventure. Of course my half-celestial barbarian was quite strong. At 8th level (4th level barbarian) he had a Strength score of 26, and 30 when he raged. I don't know how old that dragon was but a mature adult black dragon, which has a CR of 14, has a Strength of 27. An adult green, with a CR of 13, also has a 27 Strength I suspect though that it was a younger smaller dragon (both of those are huge), so that my character probably had a higher Strength score even without raging. A young adult green, with a CR of 11 (three higher than the party) is only large and has a Strength score of 23. Likewise an adult black. Anyway that's one of my fonder memories. I'd frankly like to go through the whole thing one day. :)
Keenath 12-03-07, 11:57 PM	At risk of wandering FAR astray from the purpose of this thread... The main problem with Return is that it's not very well motivated at the beginning -- I would definitely do some rewrite work on the front end of the adventure to make the PCs more clearly drawn into the whole thing -- the moathouse is only vaguely connected to the Temple, and that connection could easily be strengthened to give the PCs some real motivation to go find it. The second problem is sheer length -- the outer rim mines are REALLY long, and basically just a dungeon crawl (or four dungeon crawls, if you want to see it that way), and it gets tedious for a player like me -- I like to have some plot going on that the PCs are really involved in. I mean, it's not like every owlbear has to have a backstory or something, but I'd be nice if there were more to the elemental temples than "kill everything" over and over. Some obvious chances at espionage, infiltration, alliance, and/or power brokering would be nice. (For example, deposing the current temple leader in favor of another leader who is more favorably inclined towards the PCs and so on.) I also found the Keys puzzle to be very frustrating, because there's essentially no hint the PCs can get that touching Lesser Keys together is how to get a Greater Key, other than the vague "the lesser key seems to be part of a larger item", or some such thing. (Which is highly misinterpretable, because obviously a key is a part of a "larger item" -- the lock!) It would be helpful if the module actually hinted at that -- perhaps the PCs being able to listen in on a conversation where one key-holder is trying to figure out how to get another key-holder to trust him or die so he can enter a certain area, etc. In fact, if I were rewriting this, I'd probably spread out the "crater rim" segment and make it more freeform and more open-air. Some sections are legitimately underground, but much of it feels forced and railroady -- you get very few real path choices other than "forge ahead" or "go back", and there's a certain boredom that sets in after ANOTHER fight in the mine tunnels. How about some interesting new sets, right? And that doesn't really even mention the lightning towers, which are a ridiculously deus-ex-machina way to lock the inner fane. It feels intensely cheap that the only reason you can't go deeper in, is because the guns shoot you whenever you get close.
Thorsbjorn 12-04-07, 04:19 AM	Hey! Did the moderators remove my spoiler containing the story of my character's battle with the green dragon?! :confused: