Correct me about half-dragon/ogre lycanthrope [Archive] - Wizards Community

Correct me about half-dragon/ogre lycanthrope [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
thepuregamer
11-07-04, 08:06 PM Ok, so I made a half dragon/ half ogre were bat for the sake of polymorphing into it. The one thing that confuses me is the way the different natural armors stack up. Now a ogre has a +5 bonus to natural armor and that improves by 2 from being a lycanthrope, so that is now +7. The half dragon insert in the MM says natural armor improves by +4. So is that now a +11 bonus?
Vanigo
11-07-04, 10:19 PM Actually, a half-dragon half-ogre has the Dragon type, so he can't contract lycanthropy. The only way to do it would be to have a werebat ogre breed with a dragon.
That said, I believe that the natural armor increases are typeless, and would therefore stack.

Wait, are you polymorphing into this critter with the spell polymorph? 'Cause... you can't. You can't polymorph into a creature with a template.
thepuregamer
11-07-04, 11:04 PM It doesn't say anything about not being able to polymorph into a creature with a template. Or does it? I believe it just limits the types you can use.
Alchahest
11-07-04, 11:44 PM I may be wrong, but I don't think polymorphing into a lycanthrope will do anything, since polymorphing doesn't grant you all of the abilities of the creature you're polymorphing into.
thepuregamer
11-07-04, 11:56 PM I am not sure about this either, but I think you could just polymorph into the lycanthrope's hybrid form.
Gez
11-08-04, 12:25 AM Polymorph has been the 3rd ed spell the most errated, clarified, modified, sage-adviced, and revised.

At least in 3.0, it was expressely forbidden to polymorph into anything else than a "basic" shape.

For example, orcs have in average 14 Str. This means that a really strong orc may be born with 22 Str, while a wussy orc could have only 7 Str. You can't polymorph into an orc with 7 Str or 22 Str, only into a 14 Str one.

Also, you can't polymorph into an orc with 15 levels of barbarian. He fits the HD limit, though. :P
Demon Gnome
11-21-04, 02:33 AM Actually, a half-dragon half-ogre has the Dragon type, so he can't contract lycanthropy. The only way to do it would be to have a werebat ogre breed with a dragon.

But what if the person was a lycanthrope first, and later became a dragon?
Derren S.
11-21-04, 03:25 AM And how?

Except for the Dragon Discipline and heritage I see no way how you can becoma a half-dragon.
thepuregamer
11-21-04, 08:42 AM Well there is a template, Derren S. The lycanthrope need not have obtained it through the affliction. The only problem here is that your poor little lycanthrope half dragon will have no hit points. Anyway, everyone should note that this is impossible through polymorph. No templates are allowed. This is mentioned in the alter self spell description. Sadly getting the ability scores of this race the usual way is just way too crappy.

edit: for example, if I made a half-dragon/ goliath were-bat, he would have 4werebat hit dice +class lvls +6 lvl adjustment. That is 5 hit dice when you are supposed to be a lvl 11 character. So in hybrid form you can easily get your con up to 24(from a starting con of 15+1+6bat+2Hdragon). So with 5 hit dice that gets you 7x5=35hit points. This gives you a likely amount of hp around 65-80. At lvl 11 that is a large ammount of suck right there if you think you are going to be the tank.
Demon Gnome
11-21-04, 11:43 AM And how?

Except for the Dragon Discipline and heritage I see no way how you can becoma a half-dragon.

Actually Dragon Disciple is what I refer to. In our game we have a were-rat thinking of going into the dragon disciple prestige class. Now, the first 9 levels aren't an issue, but the tenth level ... the player would be come a dragon type. As such, does the player just gain the dragon type and keep all his dragon and lycanthrope abilities? or just become a dragon and lose his lycanthropy?
Melpomene
11-21-04, 01:55 PM Well
edit: for example, if I made a half-dragon/ goliath were-bat, he would have 4werebat hit dice +class lvls +6 lvl adjustment. That is 5 hit dice when you are supposed to be a lvl 11 character. So in hybrid form you can easily get your con up to 24(from a starting con of 15+1+6bat+2Hdragon). So with 5 hit dice that gets you 7x5=35hit points. This gives you a likely amount of hp around 65-80. At lvl 11 that is a large ammount of suck right there if you think you are going to be the tank.

Well, that is generally true. However, the adding of templates can also be done at the lowest denominator, being braught in as cross-class levels and soforth. Thus, while the ECL is high, charictor has the same experience and general abilities as thier lower ECL compatriots.

While I don't condone going completely nuts with all of this for the sake of Munchkinism, if a sorcerer realized thier draconic potential and aquires the template through extradany (non-PrC) means, they shouldn't be penalized.

...and, to the issue at hand, I oppose it, because it sets a bad precident. Namely, "My cleric casts planar ally. 12 HD creature, but I add the templates celestial, ghost, woodling..."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
thepuregamer 11-07-04, 08:06 PM	Ok, so I made a half dragon/ half ogre were bat for the sake of polymorphing into it. The one thing that confuses me is the way the different natural armors stack up. Now a ogre has a +5 bonus to natural armor and that improves by 2 from being a lycanthrope, so that is now +7. The half dragon insert in the MM says natural armor improves by +4. So is that now a +11 bonus?
Vanigo 11-07-04, 10:19 PM	Actually, a half-dragon half-ogre has the Dragon type, so he can't contract lycanthropy. The only way to do it would be to have a werebat ogre breed with a dragon. That said, I believe that the natural armor increases are typeless, and would therefore stack. Wait, are you polymorphing into this critter with the spell polymorph? 'Cause... you can't. You can't polymorph into a creature with a template.
thepuregamer 11-07-04, 11:04 PM	It doesn't say anything about not being able to polymorph into a creature with a template. Or does it? I believe it just limits the types you can use.
Alchahest 11-07-04, 11:44 PM	I may be wrong, but I don't think polymorphing into a lycanthrope will do anything, since polymorphing doesn't grant you all of the abilities of the creature you're polymorphing into.
thepuregamer 11-07-04, 11:56 PM	I am not sure about this either, but I think you could just polymorph into the lycanthrope's hybrid form.
Gez 11-08-04, 12:25 AM	Polymorph has been the 3rd ed spell the most errated, clarified, modified, sage-adviced, and revised. At least in 3.0, it was expressely forbidden to polymorph into anything else than a "basic" shape. For example, orcs have in average 14 Str. This means that a really strong orc may be born with 22 Str, while a wussy orc could have only 7 Str. You can't polymorph into an orc with 7 Str or 22 Str, only into a 14 Str one. Also, you can't polymorph into an orc with 15 levels of barbarian. He fits the HD limit, though. :P
Demon Gnome 11-21-04, 02:33 AM	Actually, a half-dragon half-ogre has the Dragon type, so he can't contract lycanthropy. The only way to do it would be to have a werebat ogre breed with a dragon. But what if the person was a lycanthrope first, and later became a dragon?
Derren S. 11-21-04, 03:25 AM	And how? Except for the Dragon Discipline and heritage I see no way how you can becoma a half-dragon.
thepuregamer 11-21-04, 08:42 AM	Well there is a template, Derren S. The lycanthrope need not have obtained it through the affliction. The only problem here is that your poor little lycanthrope half dragon will have no hit points. Anyway, everyone should note that this is impossible through polymorph. No templates are allowed. This is mentioned in the alter self spell description. Sadly getting the ability scores of this race the usual way is just way too crappy. edit: for example, if I made a half-dragon/ goliath were-bat, he would have 4werebat hit dice +class lvls +6 lvl adjustment. That is 5 hit dice when you are supposed to be a lvl 11 character. So in hybrid form you can easily get your con up to 24(from a starting con of 15+1+6bat+2Hdragon). So with 5 hit dice that gets you 7x5=35hit points. This gives you a likely amount of hp around 65-80. At lvl 11 that is a large ammount of suck right there if you think you are going to be the tank.
Demon Gnome 11-21-04, 11:43 AM	And how? Except for the Dragon Discipline and heritage I see no way how you can becoma a half-dragon. Actually Dragon Disciple is what I refer to. In our game we have a were-rat thinking of going into the dragon disciple prestige class. Now, the first 9 levels aren't an issue, but the tenth level ... the player would be come a dragon type. As such, does the player just gain the dragon type and keep all his dragon and lycanthrope abilities? or just become a dragon and lose his lycanthropy?
Melpomene 11-21-04, 01:55 PM	Well edit: for example, if I made a half-dragon/ goliath were-bat, he would have 4werebat hit dice +class lvls +6 lvl adjustment. That is 5 hit dice when you are supposed to be a lvl 11 character. So in hybrid form you can easily get your con up to 24(from a starting con of 15+1+6bat+2Hdragon). So with 5 hit dice that gets you 7x5=35hit points. This gives you a likely amount of hp around 65-80. At lvl 11 that is a large ammount of suck right there if you think you are going to be the tank. Well, that is generally true. However, the adding of templates can also be done at the lowest denominator, being braught in as cross-class levels and soforth. Thus, while the ECL is high, charictor has the same experience and general abilities as thier lower ECL compatriots. While I don't condone going completely nuts with all of this for the sake of Munchkinism, if a sorcerer realized thier draconic potential and aquires the template through extradany (non-PrC) means, they shouldn't be penalized. ...and, to the issue at hand, I oppose it, because it sets a bad precident. Namely, "My cleric casts planar ally. 12 HD creature, but I add the templates celestial, ghost, woodling..."