Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DragonX10^9 04-12-04, 07:57 PM	Stats? Where? Not in MM or SRD. What's up with that?
cwslyclgh 04-12-04, 08:00 PM	it says in the MM to use leopard stats for all similarly sized cats (which would include the cat in question, which is I bielive used as an example by at least one of the names mentioned).
DragonX10^9 04-12-04, 08:05 PM	Oh, I see. So I must extrapolate. No problem. Larger than a leopard, but smaller than an african lion. Can do. I'll post what I come up with, if anything. Contrary to the leopard's stats, a fully grown male Mtn lion is 5 ft long (not including it's tail) and gets up to 300 lbs (on average; heavier cats have been reported on occasion).
cwslyclgh 04-12-04, 08:08 PM	cougars (in the wild) are rarely larger then a leopard, with males seldome getting over 150 pounds, and females topping out around 100-110.
DragonX10^9 04-12-04, 08:14 PM	Hmmm, so it would seem. Judging by all the sites out there on these big cats, I'm getting conflicting information. Seems like the average weight for a fully grown male is around 180 lbs. At least I got the body length right! *L* I'mm not sure where I got 300 lbs from... Here's an example: http://home.globalcrossing.net/~brendel/puma.html The puma, the second largest cat in the Americas, is a large cat and (apart from its size) is a perfect example of the basic feline type, without any particular specilization. It has spots only while young, with the adult coloration almost completely monochrome, with only slight indication of pattern in the fur. Male pumas can reach up to 8 feet in total length and weigh in excess of 220 lbs. Females are smaller, averaging slightly over 6 feet in length and up to 140 lbs.
cwslyclgh 04-12-04, 08:24 PM	well my information comes from experience, from 20 years of living around them and encountering them in the forrested mountians near where I grew up. (North Western Washington). I never saw any nearly as large as 220 pounds (although I will not dispute that it could be possible). note that captive cougars tend to get larger then wild ones (simply because the lay around all day and get as much to eat as they want)... and the web site could be using the weight of zoo cougars as a guide. :::SHRUG:::
DragonX10^9 04-12-04, 09:00 PM	Indeed. I also grew up around cougars as well, I was born in British Columbia, just north of washington. In the kootenay region of the rockies, the cats were HUGE (I was once face to face with a big long-in-the-tooth male cat in my yard, scared the hell out of me it was so big_I didn't think they could be so big_I backed away into the house to get my 30-30, but it was gone). Out where I live now (midwest, Edmonton, Alberta), the cats seem smaller on this side of the rockies. I guess alot depends on habitat and availability of wild game (deer being it's main source of food; more deer=bigger cats?). However, even a 220 lb cougar is still effectively medium sized, but still larger and stronger than a leopard. The stats I came up with combined the leopard and the african lion out of the MM, and it looks alright.
DragonX10^9 04-13-04, 12:38 AM	COUGAR (AKA: Mountain Lion, Puma, Painter, Deercat) Medium Sized Animal HD: 3d8+6 HP: 30 maximum, 19 average AC: 16 (+4 Dex, +2 natural) Speed: 40 ft, Climb 20 ft Init: +4 BAB/Grapple: +2/+6 Attack: Bite (1d6+3) +6 melee. Full Attack: Bite (1d6), 2 Claws (1d3) Saves: Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +2 Special Attacks: Improved Grab off the bite attack, Pounce, and Rake. Special Qualities: Low Light Vision and Scent. Skills: Balance, Climb, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, and Spot. Feats: Alertness, Weapon Finesse. Abilities: Str 17, Dex 18, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6. Advancement: 4-12 HD (medium), 13-18 HD (large). Environment: Temperate forests and scrublands (anywhere medium sized deer are found). Organization: Solitary or pair. CR: 2 The cougar gets a +6 racial bonus to Jump checks, a +4 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks, and a +6 racial bonus to Balance and Climb checks. They recieve a +2 circumstance bonus to Hide checks when concealed in heavy brush, undergrowth, and scrub. These forest cats are 4-5 ft long (with the tail about 1/3 again as long as the body, about 2 ft long) and a fully grown male can weigh up to 220 lbs. The females of the species are generally smaller than the males (up to 140 lbs). They usually hunt during the day and have been known to track their prey for miles. Their main source of food is deer. These statistics can be used for any of the larger species in the panther family of medium sized cats (such as the black panther). A druid of 4th level or higher (or a ranger of 8th level or higher) can choose the cougar from the "Alternative Animal Companions" list. The cougar is an exceptionally useful companion for druids and rangers of the small races, since it is strong enough to carry a small rider if need be. Summon Nature's Ally 2 can summon a cougar.
Ogre4Hire 04-13-04, 03:04 PM	There were stats for the lynx in Races of Faerun. I personally thought that the stats for the leopard in the MM were a little on the light side. If I was going to use a fully grown cougar, I'd add a HD. A Jaguar should be advanced to maximum HD and given about a +4 boost to strength (since really Jags that weighed nearly as much as a lion or tiger have been recorded).