Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wizards_White_Knight 02-01-06, 06:05 PM	The 6 headed hydra is...an abomination (in the least strict sense of the word.) There is no way 4 level 5's can take that thing. My group, 4 level 4's (all gestalt) got our hides handed to us. The fast healing 16 in and of itself makes it insane. 6 attacks per attack of oppurtunity? AND combat reflexes? How does anyone get close to this thing? We had a short bow, and a warlocks eldritch blast, but both only deal 1d6 damage. and remember, fast healing 16. Then on top of that, our orc barbarian/fighter took 2 full attacks before falling, managing to deal a toatl of 50 damage...which was soon refreshed. HOW is ths possibly considered CR 5?
The Vorpal Tribble 02-01-06, 06:20 PM	I had a psion defeat one in a single round with a mind-affecting power. Their will saves stink. Didn't kill it, but it no longer felt like attacking and pass it we went.
Bluehero 02-01-06, 06:35 PM	While ususally I Dm, once when I was a player we went up against a hyda(5 headed) which is pretty insane. A level 4 sorcerer, a level 4 swashbuckler, and a level 4 fighter got TPK'd so fast it wasn't even funny. And we were at full stength. Basically, if you don't have a kill spell (which is HIGHLY unlikely if you're facing a CR 4 or 5), or have a swordsman backed up by a mage with fire/ acid spells you're screwed. Hydras tend to get much easier at higher levels, but the low CR hydras are a LOT tougher than you're aveerage CR 4 monster (like a minotaur).
Esponer 02-01-06, 06:45 PM	...They don't seem that bad. Their Will save is pretty abysmal, Eldritch Blasts by then should deal 2d6, you can get more damage out of a bow quite easily, add in a casting of Flame Arrow too, Fireball and Lightning Bolt will be dealing 4d6 damage, hydras are slow and you can get an AC by ECL 4 higher than they can hope to hit except on a natural 20. (Probably not as a barbarian, though...) Deep Slumber would be a good choice (edit: 3rd level spell, sorry, wasn't looking). As would Frightful Blast.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 02-01-06, 06:47 PM	This is one of the creatures that have to be defeated in other ways than plain combat. Like, try using spells and tactics. Also, your front-line soldier attacked the hydra, but didn't try to sunder the heads? That's just stupid. You lost because of your party's incompetence.
felipe 02-01-06, 07:02 PM	This is one of the creatures that have to be defeated in other ways than plain combat. Like, try using spells and tactics. Also, your front-line soldier attacked the hydra, but didn't try to sunder the heads? That's just stupid. You lost because of your party's incompetence. Sever the heads off is a good tactic!!! And some Fire/Acid damage are to!!! Schorching ray is a good spell for the case 4d6 always go well in combat Sneak attacks, ranged, is also a good choice!!! I thing the hydra is a fabulous adversary, they demant a quite union of the group and a good strategi... While ususally I Dm, once when I was a player we went up against a hyda(5 headed) which is pretty insane. A level 4 sorcerer, a level 4 swashbuckler, and a level 4 fighter got TPK'd so fast it wasn't even funny. And we were at full stength. Basically, if you don't have a kill spell (which is HIGHLY unlikely if you're facing a CR 4 or 5), or have a swordsman backed up by a mage with fire/ acid spells you're screwed. Hydras tend to get much easier at higher levels, but the low CR hydras are a LOT tougher than you're aveerage CR 4 monster (like a minotaur). I don't thing so!!! Laernyan piro/cryo 12 headed are GREAT adversaries.. realy hard to beat one of thesee... thats it
Wizards_White_Knight 02-01-06, 08:42 PM	This is one of the creatures that have to be defeated in other ways than plain combat. Like, try using spells and tactics. Also, your front-line soldier attacked the hydra, but didn't try to sunder the heads? That's just stupid. You lost because of your party's incompetence. He actually did try and sunder, and he provoked 6 attacks of oppurtunity while doing so. In the interest of not wanting to be stupid, we canned that plan from then on. We tried tactics, but we weren't prepared for a hydra. It wasn't something we expected to see randomly. So our tactics weren't optimal. But that goes to prove my point, that unless yu have forewarning, and go out of your way to properly prepare for this thing, you have no chance. BTW, in future when replying to my posts, if you intend on being a jerk, I can do without your comment. Thanks. As for the Eldritch Blast comment, this character was a Swashbuckler/Bard, who for reasons that came up in the campaign, took a level of warlock. It was her first level, and so the eldritch blast was only 1d6 (and due to RP reasons, not used from the beginning of the battle.) Our party wizard/cleric is focussing on ice spells. No fire or acid. In fact, I didnt even know they were weak against it, as it never came up. And the only spell that was cast at it that demanded a will save was Doom, which, gratned, it failed.
felipe 02-01-06, 08:54 PM	...fire/acid spells for the stumps of severed head... this cancel the hability to regrow and... they cannot rapid heal this wounds, like the troll!!!! ...a bardic kwonledge or kwonledge (arcana) can easly uncover this obscure weakness!!!! ...and yes you're rigth... if u meet a beaty hydra without preparation, be prepared o die!!!! ...
Wizards_White_Knight 02-01-06, 08:56 PM	"...a bardic kwonledge or kwonledge (arcana) can easly uncover this obscure weakness!!!!" Well we didnt get a chance to make these checks. Not that it mattered, as we never got a head severed, and even if we did, aside from 2 bottles of alchemists fire my character carries, we dont have access to fire or acid. :(
felipe 02-01-06, 09:23 PM	alchemist fire are a good choice if the partye dont have asses to a fire/acid spell!!! If u meet anoder hydra... and dont heve prepared youself or the partye.... just run!!!!
Silverthumb128 02-01-06, 09:34 PM	Don't cut its heads off, cut its body off. It can't regenerate its body, just heads. :D
CryoSilver 02-01-06, 09:54 PM	Cast Expeditious Retreat on the group, then archer it to death from 60 feet away.
Wizards_White_Knight 02-01-06, 10:51 PM	Unless you can deal more than 16 damage per turn...that wouldnt work. Even if each member had a bow, on average, they would be dealing 12 damage with 4 bows per round. Not enough.
runestar 02-01-06, 11:24 PM	The 6 headed hydra is...an abomination (in the least strict sense of the word.) Aren't all the powers of the hydra you just listed the biggest hint that perhaps melee combat isn't the way to go if you wish to defeat it? :rolleyes:
(Psi)SeveredHead 02-01-06, 11:30 PM	...They don't seem that bad. Their Will save is pretty abysmal, Eldritch Blasts by then should deal 2d6, you can get more damage out of a bow quite easily, add in a casting of Flame Arrow too, Fireball and Lightning Bolt will be dealing 4d6 damage, hydras are slow and you can get an AC by ECL 4 higher than they can hope to hit except on a natural 20. (Probably not as a barbarian, though...) Deep Slumber would be a good choice (edit: 3rd level spell, sorry, wasn't looking). As would Frightful Blast. If, if, if. That's a big chunk of spellcasting, even if the party has Flame Arrow. Furthrmore, you can't cast Fireball or Lightning Bolt until 5th-level, when they're your highest level spells.
Zorminster 02-01-06, 11:33 PM	potions of fly (3 minutes) are only like 350gp ya know... and im pretty certain that hydras cant fly unless they've made a huge anatamological advancement since i last encountered one... Seriously, just remember- beating an encounter dosn't always mean killing the enemy. Know when to turn tail and run or circumvent confrontation.
Slagger the Chuul 02-02-06, 01:37 AM	Hydras are built to be nearly indestructible in simple melee combat; that's been the whole point of a hydra since the first one showed up in ancient mythology to give Hercules a challenge.
Talen Lee 02-02-06, 02:03 AM	I'm seeming to remember the plan vs Hydras was to Get Yaw Sunder Awn. Plus, they're subject to a lot of solid low-level spells that hurt pretty hard. Blindness/Deafness (level 3? IIRC, it can tag them) and Bestow Curse are both royal boots in the hydra's butt. Plus, at that level, you really, really should be going for the heads. They're a pretty rough critter for Cr5, 'strue, but they're not unwinnable by any means.
TheChilliGod 02-02-06, 03:17 AM	I remember taking on a five-headed hydra at party 6th lvl. It actually turned out to be a fair fight, as though the beast was CR 6. The swashbuckler managed to slowly whittle its Hp down while my druid and the bard went mad on cure spells, and eventually I went to battlefield control spells while the bard worked on attacking the beast. Our wizard even managed to sleep through the encounter without being woken up! Worst waste of Obscuring Mist I ever used, but the best use of Entangle I ever used.
Yak of Darkness 02-02-06, 04:25 AM	He actually did try and sunder, and he provoked 6 attacks of oppurtunity while doing so. In the interest of not wanting to be stupid, we canned that plan from then on.To be fair, the hydra's writeup says: A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity.Which is a little vaguely worded, I'll admit. However, since the Combat Reflexes feat is used to give someone multiple attacks of opportunity based on their Dex mod, and the hydra has a Dex of only 12, I've always read it as: A hydra's Combat Reflexes feat allows it to take a single attack of opportunity with each individual head every round, instead of the normal total of two in a round that its dexterity bonus would permit.So a single sunder attempt will only provoke an attack of opportunity from one head. Which has both the effect of not completely screwing over parties using one or two melee combatants trying to sunder (at least, until the hydra gets a full attack off ;) ), as well as not allowing a party to just surround a hydra with a couple of extra melee attackers and get off their sunder attempts without getting bit at (you'd need more meleeists than the hydra has heads to avoid it). So both mechanics-wise, and flavor-wise for fighting a hydra, I feel this reading of the hydra's feat works out better. Now, there may be an official alternate take (that allows the hydra only two attacks of opportunity a round, using all his heads each time), but this would be a perfectly reasonable and sensible thing to houserule on. And if not, use summoning spells . . . especially higher-level slots for lower-level creatures (getting you 1d3 or 1d4+1 of them). The creatures will burn up the hydra's AoOs just approaching the damn thing, leaving your fighter(s) free to chop at the heads with impunity. And any surviving monsters or monsters from subsequent summons can continue to provoke AoOs before the fighters go (maybe even making sunder attempts on their own), allowing you to chop at their necks without worry. Either way, they're dealable. But I must say, having fought hydras at low levels using this reading, the damn things are still HARD. ;)
Nightfall, Lord of Shadow 02-02-06, 03:42 PM	Hm. I've always associated the "May use al its heads with Combat Reflexes" to mean it could make 2 attacks of oppurtunity per round, each with six heads. A sidebar points out that a hydra is specifically designed to (loose translation/summary) either slaughter parties who can't coordinate well, or reward those who focus on taking Improved Sunder in order to avoid AoO. Hydras are still badass, though, and can be quite a pain to even a good party. I know mine are. :schemes: Oh, and Zorminster, some hydras can fight airborne foes. Pyrohydras and Cryohydras have breath weapons that can really lay on the hurt. Rare, but still annoying.