CR adjustment for max hp [Archive] - Wizards Community

CR adjustment for max hp [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lord of Dorkness
10-17-05, 08:00 AM I'm experimenting with giving monsters maximum hp. So far, it runs quite nicely considering we have a strong powergamer group.
But just out of curiosity, what would you suggest for a CR adjustment? I know that a Troll at max hp gains more than a ghoul or a wizard. So that's why I'm asking. Please share your knowledge
Spike_Fightwicky
10-17-05, 08:28 AM I've run into this issue a couple of times before. For a minor "boss" the character were going to encounter, I gave it max HP. I didn't adjust the CR, which may or may not have been a good idea. My reasoning was that the PCs allowed a HP dice to be rerolled if you rolled the lower third of the HP dice (a group agreement to avoid dismally low HP on a melee type character) you could re-roll the HP dice and take the best roll. This meant that the party had a higher average HP than a typical group, so I figured I'd give the monster a little boost too.

Another point against raising the CR: If a max HP monster increases its CR, then, if the PCs all happen to roll max HP for their characters, shouldn't the regular monsters be reduced by a CR?

(Note that this was at relatively low levels [5-6]. I figure the higher you go, the more the monster will get out of max HD per dice)
Plothos
10-17-05, 12:35 PM Another thing to consider: while making max HP the norm is going to grant more HP to fighter/beastie types and less to sorcerer types, you're still roughly doubling pre-con HP. That is, a ninth level sorc should get 4+8(2.5) = 24 HP before modifying for con. A ninth level fighter should get 10+8(5.5) = 54 HP. Max HP will be 36 and 90, respectively. That's an increase of 50% for the sorc and 66% for the fighter. That's roughly comparable, especially when you factor in the fact that usually a fighter type is going to have a higher con, and these extra HP are not going to be increase at all. That is, assuming a 10 con for the sorc and a 14 for the fighter, you get

sorc
average: 24
max: 36
increase: 50%

fighter
average: 72
max: 108
increase: 50%

Neat, huh? Anyway, roughly doubling the HP of everybody doesn't seem to give anybody a huge advantage, in terms of who has more HP, anyway. Guys who don't like to mix it up get less, but need less in general. The only way I see this really affecting things is the following: 1) save or die stuff is going to be more and more huge, so I hope you like finger of death and baleful polymorph; 2) guys who like to strike from a distance, like bow rangers, and really a lot of sorcs and wizzies are not going to be able to drop as many enemies before the bad guys have closed the distance. That is, you're going to have a lot more close-quarter combat. Bear in mind this is not good for some character builds and styles of play; and 3) sneak attacks are slightly reduced in effectiveness, because it'll be harder for the rogue to slip in and drop somebody at the outset of combat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord of Dorkness 10-17-05, 08:00 AM	I'm experimenting with giving monsters maximum hp. So far, it runs quite nicely considering we have a strong powergamer group. But just out of curiosity, what would you suggest for a CR adjustment? I know that a Troll at max hp gains more than a ghoul or a wizard. So that's why I'm asking. Please share your knowledge
Spike_Fightwicky 10-17-05, 08:28 AM	I've run into this issue a couple of times before. For a minor "boss" the character were going to encounter, I gave it max HP. I didn't adjust the CR, which may or may not have been a good idea. My reasoning was that the PCs allowed a HP dice to be rerolled if you rolled the lower third of the HP dice (a group agreement to avoid dismally low HP on a melee type character) you could re-roll the HP dice and take the best roll. This meant that the party had a higher average HP than a typical group, so I figured I'd give the monster a little boost too. Another point against raising the CR: If a max HP monster increases its CR, then, if the PCs all happen to roll max HP for their characters, shouldn't the regular monsters be reduced by a CR? (Note that this was at relatively low levels [5-6]. I figure the higher you go, the more the monster will get out of max HD per dice)
Plothos 10-17-05, 12:35 PM	Another thing to consider: while making max HP the norm is going to grant more HP to fighter/beastie types and less to sorcerer types, you're still roughly doubling pre-con HP. That is, a ninth level sorc should get 4+8(2.5) = 24 HP before modifying for con. A ninth level fighter should get 10+8(5.5) = 54 HP. Max HP will be 36 and 90, respectively. That's an increase of 50% for the sorc and 66% for the fighter. That's roughly comparable, especially when you factor in the fact that usually a fighter type is going to have a higher con, and these extra HP are not going to be increase at all. That is, assuming a 10 con for the sorc and a 14 for the fighter, you get sorc average: 24 max: 36 increase: 50% fighter average: 72 max: 108 increase: 50% Neat, huh? Anyway, roughly doubling the HP of everybody doesn't seem to give anybody a huge advantage, in terms of who has more HP, anyway. Guys who don't like to mix it up get less, but need less in general. The only way I see this really affecting things is the following: 1) save or die stuff is going to be more and more huge, so I hope you like finger of death and baleful polymorph; 2) guys who like to strike from a distance, like bow rangers, and really a lot of sorcs and wizzies are not going to be able to drop as many enemies before the bad guys have closed the distance. That is, you're going to have a lot more close-quarter combat. Bear in mind this is not good for some character builds and styles of play; and 3) sneak attacks are slightly reduced in effectiveness, because it'll be harder for the rogue to slip in and drop somebody at the outset of combat.