CR analysis: Fire Drake. [Archive] - Wizards Community

CR analysis: Fire Drake. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
(Psi)SeveredHead
01-14-04, 07:57 PM This is a 3.5 monster I've drawn up, and most likely it will need some tweaking to be balanced.

Drake, Fire: CR 15; Huge Dragon (Fire)

HD 18d8+144, hp 225

Init +0

Spd 40 ft., fly 120 ft. (average)

AC 32 (-2 size, +24 natural)

Atk 2 claws +24 melee (2d8+8) and bite +22 melee (4d6+4) and tail slap +22 melee (2d8+12)

S/R 20 ft./10 ft.

SA breath weapon (50 ft. cone of fire, 12d8 damage, Reflex save DC 27), crush 4d6+12 (DC 27)

SQ blindsense 120 ft., damage reduction 5/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to fire, paralysis and sleep, keen vision, scent, spell resistance 19, vulnerability to fire.

SV Fort +19, Ref +11, Will +15

Str 27, Dex 10, Con 27, Int 6, Wis 15, Cha 12

Intimidate +22, Listen +23, Search +19, Spot +23

Hover (B), Improved Natural Attack (bite, claw, crush, tail slap), Iron Will, Multiattack, Power Attack.

With it's new, higher CR it may still need some adjustments. Do the attack values and AC scores look alright?
sandskimmer
01-15-04, 03:53 PM Should it not have the fire subtype?
Listing things vertically, 1 item per line, makes for easier reading.
Why DR of adamantine? Wouldn't magic work better?
Otherwise, it looks good.
(Psi)SeveredHead
01-15-04, 04:01 PM Originally posted by sandskimmer
Should it not have the fire subtype?
Listing things vertically, 1 item per line, makes for easier reading.
Why DR of adamantine? Wouldn't magic work better?
Otherwise, it looks good.

So that's why no one looked at it - okay, changed format.

I used the Dr 5/adamantine because I see Dr x/magic as really fast healing. Dragons, on the other hand, just have really hard scales.

I ditched the fire subtype because this dragon isn't that magical - I didn't see why he should be immune to fire (he doesn't live in a volcano), nor did I see a reason to make him weak against cold (he's still warm-blooded).

Any specific comments? Eg AC too high, too low? Damage too much? That kind of thing?
Feneem
01-16-04, 01:19 PM I'm a bit concerned about the breath weapon 14d8 is a lot of damage for lvl 12-13 Characters, particularily for an area attack. In addition the save dc is proportionally higher than it would be if this were a dragon leading to more fails as well.
was_fired
01-16-04, 02:52 PM CR looks to be too high by a few points. Compair it to a young adult red dragon (another over CRed creature):

Strengths
1. This has more HP
2. The breath does more damage
3. The breath has a higher DC
4. It has a higher SR

Weaknesses
1. The dragon can dish out more damage with normal attacks
2. The dragon has spells
3. The dragon has more skills

Now considering you are weaker in three areas and true dragons are often under CRed by a point or two I would say raise it to a CR 15 or so. That and give it the fire subtype or please rename it. At least give it immunity to fire I mean its called the "Fire Drake".
(Psi)SeveredHead
01-16-04, 05:22 PM Originally posted by Feneem
I'm a bit concerned about the breath weapon 14d8 is a lot of damage for lvl 12-13 Characters, particularily for an area attack. In addition the save dc is proportionally higher than it would be if this were a dragon leading to more fails as well.

Hmm... cutting down the damage should work. There's not much I can do about the save DC, though.

CR looks to be too high by a few points. Compair it to a young adult red dragon (another over CRed creature):

Strengths
1. This has more HP
2. The breath does more damage
3. The breath has a higher DC
4. It has a higher SR

1. Yup ... it's a combat monster, hence the four Improved Natural Attack feats.
2. I thought I a dragon's breath did roughly 1 dice per point of CR but clearly I missed something important there. I'll cut the damage.
3. Yeah ... not much I can do about that.
4. I thought the SR formula was roughly 6 or 7 + CR. Do you suggest cutting it? It seems to be pretty low to me, actually.

Weakneses
1. The dragon can dish out more damage with normal attacks
2. The dragon has spells
3. The dragon has more skills

1. D'oh! Uber-d'oh! Next time I'll have an MM with me. (Alas, the SRD site was down for at least two days, including the day I wrote this up.)
2 and 3. Yes, that's deliberate.

Now considering you are weaker in three areas and true dragons are often under CRed by a point or two I would say raise it to a CR 15 or so. That and give it the fire subtype or please rename it. At least give it immunity to fire I mean its called the "Fire Drake".

Well, I gave it the name "fire drake" because of the breath weapon. However, everyone seems to want to give it the fire subtype, so here goes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
(Psi)SeveredHead 01-14-04, 07:57 PM	This is a 3.5 monster I've drawn up, and most likely it will need some tweaking to be balanced. Drake, Fire: CR 15; Huge Dragon (Fire) HD 18d8+144, hp 225 Init +0 Spd 40 ft., fly 120 ft. (average) AC 32 (-2 size, +24 natural) Atk 2 claws +24 melee (2d8+8) and bite +22 melee (4d6+4) and tail slap +22 melee (2d8+12) S/R 20 ft./10 ft. SA breath weapon (50 ft. cone of fire, 12d8 damage, Reflex save DC 27), crush 4d6+12 (DC 27) SQ blindsense 120 ft., damage reduction 5/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to fire, paralysis and sleep, keen vision, scent, spell resistance 19, vulnerability to fire. SV Fort +19, Ref +11, Will +15 Str 27, Dex 10, Con 27, Int 6, Wis 15, Cha 12 Intimidate +22, Listen +23, Search +19, Spot +23 Hover (B), Improved Natural Attack (bite, claw, crush, tail slap), Iron Will, Multiattack, Power Attack. With it's new, higher CR it may still need some adjustments. Do the attack values and AC scores look alright?
sandskimmer 01-15-04, 03:53 PM	Should it not have the fire subtype? Listing things vertically, 1 item per line, makes for easier reading. Why DR of adamantine? Wouldn't magic work better? Otherwise, it looks good.
(Psi)SeveredHead 01-15-04, 04:01 PM	Originally posted by sandskimmer Should it not have the fire subtype? Listing things vertically, 1 item per line, makes for easier reading. Why DR of adamantine? Wouldn't magic work better? Otherwise, it looks good. So that's why no one looked at it - okay, changed format. I used the Dr 5/adamantine because I see Dr x/magic as really fast healing. Dragons, on the other hand, just have really hard scales. I ditched the fire subtype because this dragon isn't that magical - I didn't see why he should be immune to fire (he doesn't live in a volcano), nor did I see a reason to make him weak against cold (he's still warm-blooded). Any specific comments? Eg AC too high, too low? Damage too much? That kind of thing?
Feneem 01-16-04, 01:19 PM	I'm a bit concerned about the breath weapon 14d8 is a lot of damage for lvl 12-13 Characters, particularily for an area attack. In addition the save dc is proportionally higher than it would be if this were a dragon leading to more fails as well.
was_fired 01-16-04, 02:52 PM	CR looks to be too high by a few points. Compair it to a young adult red dragon (another over CRed creature): Strengths 1. This has more HP 2. The breath does more damage 3. The breath has a higher DC 4. It has a higher SR Weaknesses 1. The dragon can dish out more damage with normal attacks 2. The dragon has spells 3. The dragon has more skills Now considering you are weaker in three areas and true dragons are often under CRed by a point or two I would say raise it to a CR 15 or so. That and give it the fire subtype or please rename it. At least give it immunity to fire I mean its called the "Fire Drake".
(Psi)SeveredHead 01-16-04, 05:22 PM	Originally posted by Feneem I'm a bit concerned about the breath weapon 14d8 is a lot of damage for lvl 12-13 Characters, particularily for an area attack. In addition the save dc is proportionally higher than it would be if this were a dragon leading to more fails as well. Hmm... cutting down the damage should work. There's not much I can do about the save DC, though. CR looks to be too high by a few points. Compair it to a young adult red dragon (another over CRed creature): Strengths 1. This has more HP 2. The breath does more damage 3. The breath has a higher DC 4. It has a higher SR 1. Yup ... it's a combat monster, hence the four Improved Natural Attack feats. 2. I thought I a dragon's breath did roughly 1 dice per point of CR but clearly I missed something important there. I'll cut the damage. 3. Yeah ... not much I can do about that. 4. I thought the SR formula was roughly 6 or 7 + CR. Do you suggest cutting it? It seems to be pretty low to me, actually. Weakneses 1. The dragon can dish out more damage with normal attacks 2. The dragon has spells 3. The dragon has more skills 1. D'oh! Uber-d'oh! Next time I'll have an MM with me. (Alas, the SRD site was down for at least two days, including the day I wrote this up.) 2 and 3. Yes, that's deliberate. Now considering you are weaker in three areas and true dragons are often under CRed by a point or two I would say raise it to a CR 15 or so. That and give it the fire subtype or please rename it. At least give it immunity to fire I mean its called the "Fire Drake". Well, I gave it the name "fire drake" because of the breath weapon. However, everyone seems to want to give it the fire subtype, so here goes.