CR and awakened animals [Archive] - Wizards Community

CR and awakened animals [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lawlicron
08-06-07, 03:31 PM In an upcoming campaign I'll be running I want to include a sect of "evil"(They'll actually be good or neutral) druids who are all awakened animals.

Now I was simply going to use awakened animals with class levels. A 9th level druid brown bear for the leader of the sect and since the campaign would start in a port town some awakened shark rogues and maybe some wolf fighters as fodder to kick off the adventure.

But I've been having a problem, what do I do about their CRs? Since they have human intelligence their tactics would be smarter and some of them would have the capability to use potions and items and a large majority of them would be wearing at least some kind of barding.

So would there be a CR increase in an awakened animal? And if so how many? How about a dire animal?

Thanks in advance.
Lawlicron
08-07-07, 10:09 PM Another thing, is a awakened animal with a level of barbarian able to read and write or no?

This is also a bump.
Phalo
08-08-07, 12:35 AM In an upcoming campaign I'll be running I want to include a sect of "evil"(They'll actually be good or neutral) druids who are all awakened animals.

Now I was simply going to use awakened animals with class levels. A 9th level druid brown bear for the leader of the sect and since the campaign would start in a port town some awakened shark rogues and maybe some wolf fighters as fodder to kick off the adventure.

But I've been having a problem, what do I do about their CRs? Since they have human intelligence their tactics would be smarter and some of them would have the capability to use potions and items and a large majority of them would be wearing at least some kind of barding.

So would there be a CR increase in an awakened animal? And if so how many? How about a dire animal?

Thanks in advance.

i would base cr off class levels
as for the barding and potions that could be an issue for a few reasons.

1. You need hands to open a potion
2. you need hands to put on barding.
3. you need hands to make barding
4. you need trained as a armorer to make barding.

that being said i could see one of the druids wild shaping into a either an ape (so so at best) or a human (not sure if they qualify for wild shape) putting the armor on them.
a druid teaching leather working.

now if you take into account all that them having armor and potions is a little strange. One way to clean this all up at least from my perspective is to make the head druid a mongrel man. Nothing say BBG like a lobster claw.
RLRapp
08-08-07, 04:04 AM i would base cr off class levels
as for the barding and potions that could be an issue for a few reasons.

1. You need hands to open a potion
2. you need hands to put on barding.
3. you need hands to make barding
4. you need trained as a armorer to make barding.

that being said i could see one of the druids wild shaping into a either an ape (so so at best) or a human (not sure if they qualify for wild shape) putting the armor on them.
a druid teaching leather working.

now if you take into account all that them having armor and potions is a little strange. One way to clean this all up at least from my perspective is to make the head druid a mongrel man. Nothing say BBG like a lobster claw.

One way around this for awakened animals with enough druid levels is their wildshape ability (which the can use to take the form of an ape or monkey).
Kouk
08-08-07, 06:49 AM I don't think inherent intelligence is really factored into the CR of things. Take a level 1 PC-classed character with no LA. They're all CR 1, regardless of whether they have their high stats in INT or in STR.

I would just use their original "animal" CRs as a base, as the spell description does not imply that the modified creature should have a different CR in combat or adjustment as a Cohort.

Add class level CRs, +1 for complimentary classes, and +1/2 or so for non-complimentary classes. It is in the back of the MM, whatever the formulas are.
Lawlicron
08-08-07, 08:58 AM i would base cr off class levels
as for the barding and potions that could be an issue for a few reasons.

1. You need hands to open a potion
2. you need hands to put on barding.
3. you need hands to make barding
4. you need trained as a armorer to make barding.

that being said i could see one of the druids wild shaping into a either an ape (so so at best) or a human (not sure if they qualify for wild shape) putting the armor on them.
a druid teaching leather working.

now if you take into account all that them having armor and potions is a little strange. One way to clean this all up at least from my perspective is to make the head druid a mongrel man. Nothing say BBG like a lobster claw.

I was thinking the lead druid (An awakened bear) could use his claws to crudely brew potions in his old masters kettle or something like that. I think having intelligence would also mean knowing your limitations with working with your hands and knowing how to deal with it.

With the barding I think its more an issue of them just putting it on. I would think some animals could wiggle into it or be able to manipulate it a little better than others. But the druid wild shaping to a monkey and putting their armor on is a good idea, I hadn't really thought about the armor part yet.
Lawlicron
08-08-07, 09:00 AM I don't think inherent intelligence is really factored into the CR of things. Take a level 1 PC-classed character with no LA. They're all CR 1, regardless of whether they have their high stats in INT or in STR.

I would just use their original "animal" CRs as a base, as the spell description does not imply that the modified creature should have a different CR in combat or adjustment as a Cohort.

Add class level CRs, +1 for complimentary classes, and +1/2 or so for non-complimentary classes. It is in the back of the MM, whatever the formulas are.

Thank you, that makes great sense.
Phalo
08-10-07, 01:12 PM I was thinking the lead druid (An awakened bear) could use his claws to crudely brew potions in his old masters kettle or something like that. I think having intelligence would also mean knowing your limitations with working with your hands and knowing how to deal with it.

With the barding I think its more an issue of them just putting it on. I would think some animals could wiggle into it or be able to manipulate it a little better than others. But the druid wild shaping to a monkey and putting their armor on is a good idea, I hadn't really thought about the armor part yet.

Its not the brewing of the potions themselves that is the problem it is the consumption and bottling portion. You of course go with the alternative potion making in the form of biscuits. But storage and handling is always going to be a problem. Now as far as wiggling into armor. Its not a very good idea, since unless you are fitted correctly into armor it really hampers movement. (that is one of the reasons for squires when armor was prevalent.) The wildshaping into a a monkey or ape is a decent idea like i said in my original post the problem with it is ape hands may have the strength to do the job of applying armor but not dexterity
monkeys would have closer to the needed dex but not the str.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lawlicron 08-06-07, 03:31 PM	In an upcoming campaign I'll be running I want to include a sect of "evil"(They'll actually be good or neutral) druids who are all awakened animals. Now I was simply going to use awakened animals with class levels. A 9th level druid brown bear for the leader of the sect and since the campaign would start in a port town some awakened shark rogues and maybe some wolf fighters as fodder to kick off the adventure. But I've been having a problem, what do I do about their CRs? Since they have human intelligence their tactics would be smarter and some of them would have the capability to use potions and items and a large majority of them would be wearing at least some kind of barding. So would there be a CR increase in an awakened animal? And if so how many? How about a dire animal? Thanks in advance.
Lawlicron 08-07-07, 10:09 PM	Another thing, is a awakened animal with a level of barbarian able to read and write or no? This is also a bump.
Phalo 08-08-07, 12:35 AM	In an upcoming campaign I'll be running I want to include a sect of "evil"(They'll actually be good or neutral) druids who are all awakened animals. Now I was simply going to use awakened animals with class levels. A 9th level druid brown bear for the leader of the sect and since the campaign would start in a port town some awakened shark rogues and maybe some wolf fighters as fodder to kick off the adventure. But I've been having a problem, what do I do about their CRs? Since they have human intelligence their tactics would be smarter and some of them would have the capability to use potions and items and a large majority of them would be wearing at least some kind of barding. So would there be a CR increase in an awakened animal? And if so how many? How about a dire animal? Thanks in advance. i would base cr off class levels as for the barding and potions that could be an issue for a few reasons. 1. You need hands to open a potion 2. you need hands to put on barding. 3. you need hands to make barding 4. you need trained as a armorer to make barding. that being said i could see one of the druids wild shaping into a either an ape (so so at best) or a human (not sure if they qualify for wild shape) putting the armor on them. a druid teaching leather working. now if you take into account all that them having armor and potions is a little strange. One way to clean this all up at least from my perspective is to make the head druid a mongrel man. Nothing say BBG like a lobster claw.
RLRapp 08-08-07, 04:04 AM	i would base cr off class levels as for the barding and potions that could be an issue for a few reasons. 1. You need hands to open a potion 2. you need hands to put on barding. 3. you need hands to make barding 4. you need trained as a armorer to make barding. that being said i could see one of the druids wild shaping into a either an ape (so so at best) or a human (not sure if they qualify for wild shape) putting the armor on them. a druid teaching leather working. now if you take into account all that them having armor and potions is a little strange. One way to clean this all up at least from my perspective is to make the head druid a mongrel man. Nothing say BBG like a lobster claw. One way around this for awakened animals with enough druid levels is their wildshape ability (which the can use to take the form of an ape or monkey).
Kouk 08-08-07, 06:49 AM	I don't think inherent intelligence is really factored into the CR of things. Take a level 1 PC-classed character with no LA. They're all CR 1, regardless of whether they have their high stats in INT or in STR. I would just use their original "animal" CRs as a base, as the spell description does not imply that the modified creature should have a different CR in combat or adjustment as a Cohort. Add class level CRs, +1 for complimentary classes, and +1/2 or so for non-complimentary classes. It is in the back of the MM, whatever the formulas are.
Lawlicron 08-08-07, 08:58 AM	i would base cr off class levels as for the barding and potions that could be an issue for a few reasons. 1. You need hands to open a potion 2. you need hands to put on barding. 3. you need hands to make barding 4. you need trained as a armorer to make barding. that being said i could see one of the druids wild shaping into a either an ape (so so at best) or a human (not sure if they qualify for wild shape) putting the armor on them. a druid teaching leather working. now if you take into account all that them having armor and potions is a little strange. One way to clean this all up at least from my perspective is to make the head druid a mongrel man. Nothing say BBG like a lobster claw. I was thinking the lead druid (An awakened bear) could use his claws to crudely brew potions in his old masters kettle or something like that. I think having intelligence would also mean knowing your limitations with working with your hands and knowing how to deal with it. With the barding I think its more an issue of them just putting it on. I would think some animals could wiggle into it or be able to manipulate it a little better than others. But the druid wild shaping to a monkey and putting their armor on is a good idea, I hadn't really thought about the armor part yet.
Lawlicron 08-08-07, 09:00 AM	I don't think inherent intelligence is really factored into the CR of things. Take a level 1 PC-classed character with no LA. They're all CR 1, regardless of whether they have their high stats in INT or in STR. I would just use their original "animal" CRs as a base, as the spell description does not imply that the modified creature should have a different CR in combat or adjustment as a Cohort. Add class level CRs, +1 for complimentary classes, and +1/2 or so for non-complimentary classes. It is in the back of the MM, whatever the formulas are. Thank you, that makes great sense.
Phalo 08-10-07, 01:12 PM	I was thinking the lead druid (An awakened bear) could use his claws to crudely brew potions in his old masters kettle or something like that. I think having intelligence would also mean knowing your limitations with working with your hands and knowing how to deal with it. With the barding I think its more an issue of them just putting it on. I would think some animals could wiggle into it or be able to manipulate it a little better than others. But the druid wild shaping to a monkey and putting their armor on is a good idea, I hadn't really thought about the armor part yet. Its not the brewing of the potions themselves that is the problem it is the consumption and bottling portion. You of course go with the alternative potion making in the form of biscuits. But storage and handling is always going to be a problem. Now as far as wiggling into armor. Its not a very good idea, since unless you are fitted correctly into armor it really hampers movement. (that is one of the reasons for squires when armor was prevalent.) The wildshaping into a a monkey or ape is a decent idea like i said in my original post the problem with it is ape hands may have the strength to do the job of applying armor but not dexterity monkeys would have closer to the needed dex but not the str.