CR Assignment Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

CR Assignment Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
zeratulcraft
07-02-07, 10:10 PM I have two home made Monsters (inspired by a game) and I need help assigning them a CR. Also if anyone has any suggestions add those in too.

FALLEN

Small Outsider (Chaotic, Evil)
Hit Dice : 1d8+1 (5hp)
Initiative : +1
Speed : 30ft
Armor Class : 14 (10 Base +1 Dex +2 Natural +1 Size) Flat Footed 13, Touch 12
Base Attack Bonus/Grapple : +1/-3
Attack : Small Scimitar +3 or Bite +3
Full Attack : Small Scimitar (+3) and Bite (-2)
Damage : Small Scimitar 1d4+1 or Bite 1d4+1
Space/Reach : 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks : Sadism
Special Qualities : Cowardice
Saves : Fort +3 Ref +3 Will +1
Abilities : Str 12, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 6, Wis 8, Cha 10
Skills : Escape Artist +5, Hide +5, Listen +3, Use Rope +5
Feats : Swarmfighting (Complete Warrior)
Environments : Material Plane or any Chaotic Evil plane
Organisation : Pair or Pack (2-8), Battle Tribe (5-20 plus 1 Shaman per 10 FALLEN)
Challenge Rating : 1/2
Treasure : Half Standard plus Small Scimitar
Alignment : Chaotic Evil
Advancement : 2-3 (Small), 4 (Medium size + Shaman Traits)

FALLEN look like small humanoids, except they have red skin and two short horns growing from their forehead, instead of feet they have cloven hooves. They attack in packs, but are too cowardly to maintain any proper opposition for very long. However this can work for them too if other FALLEN are nearby, their constant fleeing is likely to gather more of their number. FALLEN speak Abyssal. As they advance closer to SHAMANhood, their horns grow more pronounced, becoming longer and thicker.

Sadism : For every 10 damage a group of FALLEN deals, over any number of rounds within a single encounter, the group gains a +1 morale bonus on Attack Rolls, Damage Rolls and Will Saves to resist Cowardice.

Cowardice : Whenever a Fallen is slain or dropped to negative hit points, all other Fallen within 20ft must suceed on a Will Save (DC equal 10 + Damage Dealt in the attack that dropped them to negatives) or immediately become Panicked for one round. This quality disappears if the number of FALLEN out number the number of visible attackers three to one. It appears again if sufficient FALLEN are killed or more attackers appear.

FALLEN SHAMAN

Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Evil)
Hit Dice : 4d8+8 (26hp)
Initiative : +5
Speed : 30ft
Armor Class : 15 (10 Base +1 Dex +4 Natural) Flat Footed 14, Touch 11
Base Attack/Grapple : +4/+4
Attack : Quarterstaff (+7) or Bite (+7) or Eldritch Fire (+5)
Full Attack : Quarterstaff +7 and Bite +2
Damage : Quarterstaff 1d6+3 or Bite 1d6+1 or Eldritch Fire 2d6
Space/Reach : 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks : Eldritch Fire, Raise, Sadism
Special Qualities : Devil's Sight
Saves : Fort +6 Ref +5 Will +5
Abilities : Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 14
Skills : Escape Artist +8, Hide +8, Listen +8, Use Rope +8, Intimidate +9, Bluff +9, Use Magic Device +9
Feats : Improved Initiative, Danger Sense (Complete Adventurer)
Environments : Material Plane or any Chaotic Evil plane
Organisation : Battle Tribe (5-20 FALLEN plus 1 Shaman per 10 FALLEN)
Challenge Rating : 3
Treasure : Standard plus Quarterstaff
Alignment : Chaotic Evil
Advancement : By Character Class (Favoured Class : Warlock)

FALLEN SHAMANs look like a tall gangly human, except with pure red skin, two large horns growing from their forehead and cloven hooves instead of feet. They 'lead' FALLEN packs, but not in any real directional way, they simply exist to continue replenishing the numbers of FALLEN that are sure to die as they go about their rampart destruction. FALLEN SHAMANs speak Abyssal, but rarely choose to speak.

Eldritch Fire : At will as a standard action, launch a bolt of fire with a maximum range of 60ft, this requires a ranged touch attack to hit and deals 2d6 Fire damage.

Raise : At will as a Full-Round action, the SHAMAN can bring any dead non-shaman FALLEN back to life, the raised FALLEN has a single hit point but can recover the others normally. This can be used on any FALLEN corpse within 60ft and provokes an attack of opportunity.

Sadism : For every 10 damage a SHAMAN deals, over any number of rounds within a single encounter, they gain a +1 morale bonus on Attack Rolls and Damage Rolls. For every 20 points, the damage of their Eldritch Fire ability goes up 1d6.

Devil's Sight : As the Invocation (Complete Arcane Page 133), always active.
sensestaker
07-02-07, 10:41 PM I'd say 1/2 for the Fallen, 3 for the Shaman. Eldritch Fire bumps it up from a 2.

ISadism : For every 10 damage they deal, over any number of rounds within a single encounter, they gain a +1 morale bonus on Attack Rolls, Damage Rolls and Will Saves to resist Cowardice.

Is this damage dealt by the group as a whole?

Raise : At will as a Full-Round action, the SHAMAN can bring any non-shaman FALLEN back to life with a single hit point remaining. This can be used on any FALLEN corpse within 60ft and provokes an attack of opportunity.

Does this mean thet the raised Fallen has 1 hit point?
Mentar
07-02-07, 10:44 PM If you can find it, I believe you may find what you are looking for in the Diablo II campaign setting book for 3.0.

A friend of mine has it, but I don't.
zeratulcraft
07-02-07, 10:53 PM @Sensestaker
I'm thinking Sadism is per Fallen, though group total could work too, would it change CR much?

The raised Fallen has 1hp left yes.

@Mentar
I had a look for Diablo d20 stuff, but could only find ADND-esque rules, no 3.X stuff at all.
Mentar
07-02-07, 11:01 PM Bah, I wish I had bought it back in 02 now.

Things I do know for sure about it.
All the haste like effects were 3.0 rules.
Some of the monsters were in the book.
D&D homepage has Diablo item generator in the tools section.

I will stop by my local game store tomorrow and see if they still have a copy, or if they have the info to order it (if still in print/available).
zeratulcraft
07-02-07, 11:11 PM Yeah the one in the tools is ADND, "Full-Plate AC1."
sensestaker
07-02-07, 11:35 PM I'm thinking Sadism is per Fallen, though group total could work too, would it change CR much?

I think that Sadism being per individual woudn't be much use-only +1 every 3 rounds, assuming that they live that long-most close enough to deal damage will get killed pretty quickly.

If it's 10 damage as a group gives the bonus to every Fallen present (or within 30', or whatever) then it starts to get interesting. I might bump they're CR up to 1, but I'm having a hard time justifying it with the Cowardice. It's difficult to mechanically balance that with the Sadism. Cowardice makes them very weak in small groups, but Sadism makes them very strong in large groups.

http://www.mazeguy.net/expressive/scratchchin.gif

After careful contemplation, I have decided to stick with 1/2, even if the Sadism is for the entire group. By the time the EL is high enough for them to outnumber the PC's enough to be really effective as damage dealers, the PC's will have too many weapons at their disposal-great cleave, cloudkill, fireball, etc.
zeratulcraft
07-02-07, 11:45 PM Great, thanks!

Edited the original post to show that Sadism is based on an entire group of Fallen, and changed the wording on the Shamans Raise ability to clarify.
sensestaker
07-02-07, 11:56 PM Glad to help. :D

Abilities are much more clear now, too.
sensestaker
07-03-07, 12:12 AM Sorry I forgot to point it out earlier (the CR issue was taking up most of my brain), but don't forget their +1 size bunos to AC (looks like you remembered it for attack, though).
zeratulcraft
07-03-07, 12:22 AM Oh true, yeah forgot about that. Thanks again.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zeratulcraft 07-02-07, 10:10 PM	I have two home made Monsters (inspired by a game) and I need help assigning them a CR. Also if anyone has any suggestions add those in too. FALLEN Small Outsider (Chaotic, Evil) Hit Dice : 1d8+1 (5hp) Initiative : +1 Speed : 30ft Armor Class : 14 (10 Base +1 Dex +2 Natural +1 Size) Flat Footed 13, Touch 12 Base Attack Bonus/Grapple : +1/-3 Attack : Small Scimitar +3 or Bite +3 Full Attack : Small Scimitar (+3) and Bite (-2) Damage : Small Scimitar 1d4+1 or Bite 1d4+1 Space/Reach : 5ft/5ft Special Attacks : Sadism Special Qualities : Cowardice Saves : Fort +3 Ref +3 Will +1 Abilities : Str 12, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 6, Wis 8, Cha 10 Skills : Escape Artist +5, Hide +5, Listen +3, Use Rope +5 Feats : Swarmfighting (Complete Warrior) Environments : Material Plane or any Chaotic Evil plane Organisation : Pair or Pack (2-8), Battle Tribe (5-20 plus 1 Shaman per 10 FALLEN) Challenge Rating : 1/2 Treasure : Half Standard plus Small Scimitar Alignment : Chaotic Evil Advancement : 2-3 (Small), 4 (Medium size + Shaman Traits) FALLEN look like small humanoids, except they have red skin and two short horns growing from their forehead, instead of feet they have cloven hooves. They attack in packs, but are too cowardly to maintain any proper opposition for very long. However this can work for them too if other FALLEN are nearby, their constant fleeing is likely to gather more of their number. FALLEN speak Abyssal. As they advance closer to SHAMANhood, their horns grow more pronounced, becoming longer and thicker. Sadism : For every 10 damage a group of FALLEN deals, over any number of rounds within a single encounter, the group gains a +1 morale bonus on Attack Rolls, Damage Rolls and Will Saves to resist Cowardice. Cowardice : Whenever a Fallen is slain or dropped to negative hit points, all other Fallen within 20ft must suceed on a Will Save (DC equal 10 + Damage Dealt in the attack that dropped them to negatives) or immediately become Panicked for one round. This quality disappears if the number of FALLEN out number the number of visible attackers three to one. It appears again if sufficient FALLEN are killed or more attackers appear. FALLEN SHAMAN Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Evil) Hit Dice : 4d8+8 (26hp) Initiative : +5 Speed : 30ft Armor Class : 15 (10 Base +1 Dex +4 Natural) Flat Footed 14, Touch 11 Base Attack/Grapple : +4/+4 Attack : Quarterstaff (+7) or Bite (+7) or Eldritch Fire (+5) Full Attack : Quarterstaff +7 and Bite +2 Damage : Quarterstaff 1d6+3 or Bite 1d6+1 or Eldritch Fire 2d6 Space/Reach : 5ft/5ft Special Attacks : Eldritch Fire, Raise, Sadism Special Qualities : Devil's Sight Saves : Fort +6 Ref +5 Will +5 Abilities : Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 14 Skills : Escape Artist +8, Hide +8, Listen +8, Use Rope +8, Intimidate +9, Bluff +9, Use Magic Device +9 Feats : Improved Initiative, Danger Sense (Complete Adventurer) Environments : Material Plane or any Chaotic Evil plane Organisation : Battle Tribe (5-20 FALLEN plus 1 Shaman per 10 FALLEN) Challenge Rating : 3 Treasure : Standard plus Quarterstaff Alignment : Chaotic Evil Advancement : By Character Class (Favoured Class : Warlock) FALLEN SHAMANs look like a tall gangly human, except with pure red skin, two large horns growing from their forehead and cloven hooves instead of feet. They 'lead' FALLEN packs, but not in any real directional way, they simply exist to continue replenishing the numbers of FALLEN that are sure to die as they go about their rampart destruction. FALLEN SHAMANs speak Abyssal, but rarely choose to speak. Eldritch Fire : At will as a standard action, launch a bolt of fire with a maximum range of 60ft, this requires a ranged touch attack to hit and deals 2d6 Fire damage. Raise : At will as a Full-Round action, the SHAMAN can bring any dead non-shaman FALLEN back to life, the raised FALLEN has a single hit point but can recover the others normally. This can be used on any FALLEN corpse within 60ft and provokes an attack of opportunity. Sadism : For every 10 damage a SHAMAN deals, over any number of rounds within a single encounter, they gain a +1 morale bonus on Attack Rolls and Damage Rolls. For every 20 points, the damage of their Eldritch Fire ability goes up 1d6. Devil's Sight : As the Invocation (Complete Arcane Page 133), always active.
sensestaker 07-02-07, 10:41 PM	I'd say 1/2 for the Fallen, 3 for the Shaman. Eldritch Fire bumps it up from a 2. ISadism : For every 10 damage they deal, over any number of rounds within a single encounter, they gain a +1 morale bonus on Attack Rolls, Damage Rolls and Will Saves to resist Cowardice. Is this damage dealt by the group as a whole? Raise : At will as a Full-Round action, the SHAMAN can bring any non-shaman FALLEN back to life with a single hit point remaining. This can be used on any FALLEN corpse within 60ft and provokes an attack of opportunity. Does this mean thet the raised Fallen has 1 hit point?
Mentar 07-02-07, 10:44 PM	If you can find it, I believe you may find what you are looking for in the Diablo II campaign setting book for 3.0. A friend of mine has it, but I don't.
zeratulcraft 07-02-07, 10:53 PM	@Sensestaker I'm thinking Sadism is per Fallen, though group total could work too, would it change CR much? The raised Fallen has 1hp left yes. @Mentar I had a look for Diablo d20 stuff, but could only find ADND-esque rules, no 3.X stuff at all.
Mentar 07-02-07, 11:01 PM	Bah, I wish I had bought it back in 02 now. Things I do know for sure about it. All the haste like effects were 3.0 rules. Some of the monsters were in the book. D&D homepage has Diablo item generator in the tools section. I will stop by my local game store tomorrow and see if they still have a copy, or if they have the info to order it (if still in print/available).
zeratulcraft 07-02-07, 11:11 PM	Yeah the one in the tools is ADND, "Full-Plate AC1."
sensestaker 07-02-07, 11:35 PM	I'm thinking Sadism is per Fallen, though group total could work too, would it change CR much? I think that Sadism being per individual woudn't be much use-only +1 every 3 rounds, assuming that they live that long-most close enough to deal damage will get killed pretty quickly. If it's 10 damage as a group gives the bonus to every Fallen present (or within 30', or whatever) then it starts to get interesting. I might bump they're CR up to 1, but I'm having a hard time justifying it with the Cowardice. It's difficult to mechanically balance that with the Sadism. Cowardice makes them very weak in small groups, but Sadism makes them very strong in large groups. http://www.mazeguy.net/expressive/scratchchin.gif After careful contemplation, I have decided to stick with 1/2, even if the Sadism is for the entire group. By the time the EL is high enough for them to outnumber the PC's enough to be really effective as damage dealers, the PC's will have too many weapons at their disposal-great cleave, cloudkill, fireball, etc.
zeratulcraft 07-02-07, 11:45 PM	Great, thanks! Edited the original post to show that Sadism is based on an entire group of Fallen, and changed the wording on the Shamans Raise ability to clarify.
sensestaker 07-02-07, 11:56 PM	Glad to help. :D Abilities are much more clear now, too.
sensestaker 07-03-07, 12:12 AM	Sorry I forgot to point it out earlier (the CR issue was taking up most of my brain), but don't forget their +1 size bunos to AC (looks like you remembered it for attack, though).
zeratulcraft 07-03-07, 12:22 AM	Oh true, yeah forgot about that. Thanks again.