CR for a creature that cannot die? (also PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

CR for a creature that cannot die? (also PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
shruggar
07-30-06, 12:34 AM What might be the CR adjustment / LA adjustment for adding a "Can't be killed" template to a creature? It can still be disintegrated, or simply sundered repeatedly until it can't attack. It's intended to be more of a moral dilema, but for pure combat I'd still like to come up with a good CR. It would be up to the DM to determine what counts as "winning" the battle.
Of course, if you fight one, there is a chance (slim) that a PC may become one. Usually this would effectively take the PC out of play, but it's not entirely impossible that a player could be one. What would be the LA for this?
Is anything else missing for this description?

Unkilled
"Unkilled" is a template that can be added to any living corporeal creature.
Unkilled is always an acquired template, usually as a result of having come in
direct contact with a force of Strong Chaos and being reduced below -10
hitpoints without falling unconcious.

Size and Type
The creature retains most qualities it had previously, but once the Unkilled
template has been added, no other template can be added and the creature
becomes immune to any effect which would result in the addition of a template.

Hit Dice and Hit Points
Same as the base creature.

Speed
Same as the base creature.

Armor Class
Same as the base creature.

Base Attack/Grapple
Same as the base creature.

Attacks
Same as the base creature.

Damage
Same as the base creature.

Special Attacks
An Unkilled retains most of the special attacks of the base creature, and also
gains the special attacks described below.
Because an Unkilled does not sleep or rest, an Unkilled spellcaster may lose
the ability to cast spells. While an Unkilled is not incapable of casting
spells, it will not rest if its goal is immediately in front of it. If an
Unkilled spellcaster is unable to act for a full day, it is likely to use that
time to prepare spells normally.

Unkill(Ex)
Any time an attack by an Unkilled deals enough damage to cause the victim to
drop below -10 hitpoints while the victim is still conscious has a 5% chance of
causing the victim to become Unkilled (provided the template is allowed for the
victim's type). This chance can increase significantly from a number of
factors:
If the victim has a Will modifier higher than 15, add the Will modifier -10 to
the % chance.
If the victim has been Touched By Chaos, add 10%.

Special Qualities
An Unkilled retains most of the special qualities of the base creature.

An Unkilled loses the ability to gain Experience and Levels. If in a party the
experience should still be divided normally between all party members, but
those alotted to the Unkilled are lost forever.

An unkilled loses the ability to think rationally about any situation. It will
ceaselessly continue whatever task it was performing before aquiring the
unkilled template. This can be as limited as that of an Unseen Servant spell,
or as dynamic as tracking down and killing a particular being. In either case,
an unkilled is not swayed by unrelated tasks, no matter how dire or urgent.

Unkilled creatures never sleep or fall unconcious, and become immune to any
effects which would cause them to do either. This may have negative effects on
Unkilled spellcasters (as described above), but otherwise there is no drawback.
An Unkilled creature never becomes Fatigued or Exhausted.

An unkilled creature becomes immune to attacks reliant on biology, including
Poison, Disease, and Critical Hits.

An unkilled creature is immune to Polymorph effects, other than Alter Self.

An unkilled creature cannot be healed. Any hitpoints lost are lost forever, and
any damage taken is permanent. Some effects can restore the appearance of an
Unkilled, but the Unkilled's true limbs (for example) cannot be regenerated. An
unkilled creature loses any Regeneration ability it previously had.

Chaotic Persistence(Ex)
An Unkilled creature does not die from normal attacks. Any damage, no matter
how greivous, is considered nonlethal. An unkilled creature retains control of
sundered limbs so long as they are within 5 feet of the largest remaining
portion of the Unkilled creature. Even Disintegration does not kill an Unkilled
creature. An Unkilled retains conciousness at all times. It is not neccessary
to track an Unkilled creature's hitpoints, only physical damage.
An Unkilled creature is immune to Death Attacks. Miracle or Wish is not
capable of killing an Unkilled creature, though some forces of Strong Order or
Strong Chaos are capable of negating the creature's existence.
Any effect which normally depends on a creature dropping below 0 hitpoints
(such as disintegration) automatically succeeds on a failed save, and
automatically fails on a successful save. An Unkilled is immune to any such
effect which allows no save.
An Unkilled's mental abilities are never effected by physical damage.

Base Save Bonuses
Same as the base creature.

Abilities
Same as the base creature.

Skills
An Unkilled retains all of the Skills of the base creature, but takes a -20
penalty to Diplomacy checks.

Feats
Same as the base creature.

Environment
Same as the base creature.

Organization
Solitary, rarely party (3-6), or batallion (20+)
An Unkilled usually loses whatever organization it was previously a part of,
though it is not entirely unheard of. An Unkilled's ceaseless attacks and
inability to rationalize prevents most organization. Multiple Unkilled who
were working towards the same goal prior to becomming Unkilled are likely to
continue working together.
Rarely, entire armies fighting Unkilled have fallen, the "survivors"
continuing to battle even long after the war is declared over.

Challenge Rating
By class level or base creature, ??????????

Treasure
Standard.

Alignment
Same as the base creature, though usually a Lawful alignment becomes Neutral.

Advancement
None. An Unkilled creature cannot gain new levels, templates, experience, or
abilities.

Level Adjustment
????????????
Part-Human2
07-30-06, 12:52 AM An Unkilled loses the ability to gain Experience and Levels.
Level Adjustment isn't need then eh?

CR should be determined by what level a group of PCs would have to be to possess the means to "defeat" the encounter by expending about 25% of their resources, as long as such encounter doesn't prove overly deadly. As the creator of this and as DM, you'd have to determine what you consider success by the party.

It's inappropriate to stat this ability as a template. And the way you describe the abilities aren't standard. I suggest you just make whatever NPCs/creatures you'd wish to be immortal.

This is a mistake...I can see this frustrating players because PCs expect a way to overcome opponents.
ThorGuy
07-30-06, 12:52 AM My suggestion would be to just playtest creatures with and without the spell to find a suitable balance. I think this is a seriously cool idea, and has real promise. Unkilled is somewhat of a misnomer, but Unkillable doesn't sound as good, so what the heck.
shruggar
07-30-06, 02:53 AM Level Adjustment isn't need then eh?
Why wouldnt it be? "This character is level 7, if he were to have the unkilled template, would it be balanced in a game of level 9 characters?", that's what level adjustment is for, isnt it? It may be that this template would have some exponential level adjustment, different adjustment depending on whether or not the base creature can cast spells (balanced slightly by how likely it is the creature doesnt have any spells prepared), it may be that the LA peaks off after a certain point, etc. When I first posted this, I actually thought LA and CR were related, but others have been telling me they arent really.
The real point of LA would be "I think it might work for a PC to have this template, what would everyone else need to be for this to work?"

CR should be determined by what level a group of PCs would have to be to possess the means to "defeat" the encounter by expending about 25% of their resources, as long as such encounter doesn't prove overly deadly. As the creator of this and as DM, you'd have to determine what you consider success by the party.
Thought I had made that clear, sorry: In general, success would be disabling the creature to the point where it can no longer attack. Other DMs may require more, but in most situations "more" can be applied to /any/ creature: It may be in the setting that you can only truely "kill" a Troll by burning its body to ashes, but if you manage to fully incapacitate it (knock it out and tie it up to the point where it can't escape after regenerating), the encounter is effectively over.

It's inappropriate to stat this ability as a template. And the way you describe the abilities aren't standard.
Why would this not make sense as a template? What is nonstandard about the format? (I just tried to copy the Lycanthrope template, what needs to change?)
Really I only see this as being applied to people, and "Unkilled" could be be just a normal monster that looks like a human and doesnt die. However there's no real reason to say "You can't have an Unkilled troll", so why not? (not rhetorical)

My suggestion would be to just playtest creatures with and without the spell to find a suitable balance.
Well, obviously, but a starting point is what I was looking for. What do you mean "spell", though?

Unkilled is somewhat of a misnomer, but Unkillable doesn't sound as good, so what the heck.
It's "Unkilled" in the same way a zombie is "Undead".
Unliving = "Dead"
Undead = "Not dead despite being killed"
Unkilled = "Not killed despite being reduced to below -10 HP"
runestar
07-30-06, 03:27 AM Wouldn't this depend on how readily the creature can be bypassed? It's no use having, say, an unkillable tarrasque guarding a cavern if my party can just cast mass fly and zip over it, or invis or sneak past it. After all, xp is rewarded to overcoming an encounter, which does not necessitate that you kill the creature in question.

I would say it depends. As for LA, "-", since being unkillable essentially upsets any game.
Freefall
07-30-06, 04:43 AM I don't know the nonlethal rules as well as I should, but doesn't a creature that sustains nonlethal damage equal to its total HP+10 fall unconscious? Since it can never be healed, I would think that overall this would actually make the creature significantly less threatening than it might be otherwise.

It might also need some clarification on how it takes damage (unless I'm getting the rules wrong). In one part you state that any damage it takes can never be healed and any HP it loses are permanently gone. In the next section you say that it pretty much can never take HP damage, only nonlethal, although this doesn't quite make the first part moot since you also use the phrase "any damage taken is permanent," so I guess it doesn't really matter, since the nonlethal damage it takes would still be permanent.

Anyway, the point is, as written, I don't see the threat. So it isn't technically dead, just permanently helpless, can't ever recover. I dunno, certainly doesn't seem to warrant an LA or CR increase. In fact, I would agree that an LA wouldn't really be appropriate, since the lack of XP means that in any party it ever joins it will eventually fall behind them.
Ra-Tiel
07-30-06, 05:25 AM First, I agree with runestar. This template is imho not in any way suitable for player characters. It should - if it is brought into actual game at all - be exclusive for NPCs.

Second, I'd like to offer a suggestion mechanically speaking. I'd make the template similar in mechanics to the tarrasque's regeneration. Something like:
Regeneration (Ex)
No form of attack deals lethal damage to an unkilled. An unkilled regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If an unkilled fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10. An unkilled is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.

An unkilled can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a [lesser] wish or miracle spell (or similar magical or psionic effect) to keep it dead.

If an unkilled loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

This way you can have an effectively unkillable creature, but there's still a way to get rid of it for good. As for the CR adjustment this template provides, perhaps you could make that dependent on how fast it regenerates?

5 or less HD: regeneration 1; CR +4
5 to 10 HD: regeneration 3; CR +6
11 to 20 HD: regeneration 5; CR +8
21 or more HD: regenration 10; CR +10
runestar
07-30-06, 06:57 AM The cr adjustment itself needs some work. It would be impossible for a low lv party without access to those spells like wish, but for a high lv party, it would hardly be a speed bump. The only annoyance is burning xp for a wish spell.

Also, there is very little correlation between cr and HD, since that too is dependent on the monster in question. I would suggest basing the cr increase off the original cr of the target monster. The lower its cr, the bigger will be the final cr increase.

Maybe a creature of cr 5-7 will get a cr boost of +6, but for a creature of cr17, its cr will increase by only +1 or +2. :)
Ra-Tiel
07-30-06, 07:23 AM The cr adjustment itself needs some work. [...]
Well, I know. But this was just a quick idea as to how such a template could be realised, and what mechanics [sh|c]ould be used. So, I don't offer any guarantees for the numbers in my above post. :P :D
Rake
07-30-06, 09:08 AM CR for a creature that can never die?

See: MMII - Phoenix
shruggar
07-30-06, 09:19 AM Second, I'd like to offer a suggestion mechanically speaking. I'd make the template similar in mechanics to the tarrasque's regeneration.
There's a very clear and important difference between "never regenerates, miracle or wish cannot be used to kill it" and "regenerates all damage, can only be killed by miracle or wish"

I've thought about the alternative of:
Once a creature becomes unkilled, it is considered to have double its usual hitpoints. This hitpoints effectively have infinite DR and ER, but can be used as a base for calculating the amount of damage needed for sundering attempts on its limbs.
(*though this wording needs to change and it can still be disintegrated)

Think "Black Knight", not "T-9000". It doesnt regenerate, but it doesnt care how badly it is injured. It Never falls unconcious, under any circumstances (other than through divine intervention or spells which will not be described here, that it can be assumed a party will not have ready access to), and a typical party will not actually be able to "Kill" it, only "Stop" it.

It does not generate. If disintegrated, it stays as dust. Its conciousness is still there (and so it cannot be ressurected), but it is not likely to be a problem anymore. (I specified it can only be added to a corporeal creature in an attempt to ensure this always mattered)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shruggar 07-30-06, 12:34 AM	What might be the CR adjustment / LA adjustment for adding a "Can't be killed" template to a creature? It can still be disintegrated, or simply sundered repeatedly until it can't attack. It's intended to be more of a moral dilema, but for pure combat I'd still like to come up with a good CR. It would be up to the DM to determine what counts as "winning" the battle. Of course, if you fight one, there is a chance (slim) that a PC may become one. Usually this would effectively take the PC out of play, but it's not entirely impossible that a player could be one. What would be the LA for this? Is anything else missing for this description? Unkilled "Unkilled" is a template that can be added to any living corporeal creature. Unkilled is always an acquired template, usually as a result of having come in direct contact with a force of Strong Chaos and being reduced below -10 hitpoints without falling unconcious. Size and Type The creature retains most qualities it had previously, but once the Unkilled template has been added, no other template can be added and the creature becomes immune to any effect which would result in the addition of a template. Hit Dice and Hit Points Same as the base creature. Speed Same as the base creature. Armor Class Same as the base creature. Base Attack/Grapple Same as the base creature. Attacks Same as the base creature. Damage Same as the base creature. Special Attacks An Unkilled retains most of the special attacks of the base creature, and also gains the special attacks described below. Because an Unkilled does not sleep or rest, an Unkilled spellcaster may lose the ability to cast spells. While an Unkilled is not incapable of casting spells, it will not rest if its goal is immediately in front of it. If an Unkilled spellcaster is unable to act for a full day, it is likely to use that time to prepare spells normally. Unkill(Ex) Any time an attack by an Unkilled deals enough damage to cause the victim to drop below -10 hitpoints while the victim is still conscious has a 5% chance of causing the victim to become Unkilled (provided the template is allowed for the victim's type). This chance can increase significantly from a number of factors: If the victim has a Will modifier higher than 15, add the Will modifier -10 to the % chance. If the victim has been Touched By Chaos, add 10%. Special Qualities An Unkilled retains most of the special qualities of the base creature. An Unkilled loses the ability to gain Experience and Levels. If in a party the experience should still be divided normally between all party members, but those alotted to the Unkilled are lost forever. An unkilled loses the ability to think rationally about any situation. It will ceaselessly continue whatever task it was performing before aquiring the unkilled template. This can be as limited as that of an Unseen Servant spell, or as dynamic as tracking down and killing a particular being. In either case, an unkilled is not swayed by unrelated tasks, no matter how dire or urgent. Unkilled creatures never sleep or fall unconcious, and become immune to any effects which would cause them to do either. This may have negative effects on Unkilled spellcasters (as described above), but otherwise there is no drawback. An Unkilled creature never becomes Fatigued or Exhausted. An unkilled creature becomes immune to attacks reliant on biology, including Poison, Disease, and Critical Hits. An unkilled creature is immune to Polymorph effects, other than Alter Self. An unkilled creature cannot be healed. Any hitpoints lost are lost forever, and any damage taken is permanent. Some effects can restore the appearance of an Unkilled, but the Unkilled's true limbs (for example) cannot be regenerated. An unkilled creature loses any Regeneration ability it previously had. Chaotic Persistence(Ex) An Unkilled creature does not die from normal attacks. Any damage, no matter how greivous, is considered nonlethal. An unkilled creature retains control of sundered limbs so long as they are within 5 feet of the largest remaining portion of the Unkilled creature. Even Disintegration does not kill an Unkilled creature. An Unkilled retains conciousness at all times. It is not neccessary to track an Unkilled creature's hitpoints, only physical damage. An Unkilled creature is immune to Death Attacks. Miracle or Wish is not capable of killing an Unkilled creature, though some forces of Strong Order or Strong Chaos are capable of negating the creature's existence. Any effect which normally depends on a creature dropping below 0 hitpoints (such as disintegration) automatically succeeds on a failed save, and automatically fails on a successful save. An Unkilled is immune to any such effect which allows no save. An Unkilled's mental abilities are never effected by physical damage. Base Save Bonuses Same as the base creature. Abilities Same as the base creature. Skills An Unkilled retains all of the Skills of the base creature, but takes a -20 penalty to Diplomacy checks. Feats Same as the base creature. Environment Same as the base creature. Organization Solitary, rarely party (3-6), or batallion (20+) An Unkilled usually loses whatever organization it was previously a part of, though it is not entirely unheard of. An Unkilled's ceaseless attacks and inability to rationalize prevents most organization. Multiple Unkilled who were working towards the same goal prior to becomming Unkilled are likely to continue working together. Rarely, entire armies fighting Unkilled have fallen, the "survivors" continuing to battle even long after the war is declared over. Challenge Rating By class level or base creature, ?????????? Treasure Standard. Alignment Same as the base creature, though usually a Lawful alignment becomes Neutral. Advancement None. An Unkilled creature cannot gain new levels, templates, experience, or abilities. Level Adjustment ????????????
Part-Human2 07-30-06, 12:52 AM	An Unkilled loses the ability to gain Experience and Levels. Level Adjustment isn't need then eh? CR should be determined by what level a group of PCs would have to be to possess the means to "defeat" the encounter by expending about 25% of their resources, as long as such encounter doesn't prove overly deadly. As the creator of this and as DM, you'd have to determine what you consider success by the party. It's inappropriate to stat this ability as a template. And the way you describe the abilities aren't standard. I suggest you just make whatever NPCs/creatures you'd wish to be immortal. This is a mistake...I can see this frustrating players because PCs expect a way to overcome opponents.
ThorGuy 07-30-06, 12:52 AM	My suggestion would be to just playtest creatures with and without the spell to find a suitable balance. I think this is a seriously cool idea, and has real promise. Unkilled is somewhat of a misnomer, but Unkillable doesn't sound as good, so what the heck.
shruggar 07-30-06, 02:53 AM	Level Adjustment isn't need then eh? Why wouldnt it be? "This character is level 7, if he were to have the unkilled template, would it be balanced in a game of level 9 characters?", that's what level adjustment is for, isnt it? It may be that this template would have some exponential level adjustment, different adjustment depending on whether or not the base creature can cast spells (balanced slightly by how likely it is the creature doesnt have any spells prepared), it may be that the LA peaks off after a certain point, etc. When I first posted this, I actually thought LA and CR were related, but others have been telling me they arent really. The real point of LA would be "I think it might work for a PC to have this template, what would everyone else need to be for this to work?" CR should be determined by what level a group of PCs would have to be to possess the means to "defeat" the encounter by expending about 25% of their resources, as long as such encounter doesn't prove overly deadly. As the creator of this and as DM, you'd have to determine what you consider success by the party. Thought I had made that clear, sorry: In general, success would be disabling the creature to the point where it can no longer attack. Other DMs may require more, but in most situations "more" can be applied to /any/ creature: It may be in the setting that you can only truely "kill" a Troll by burning its body to ashes, but if you manage to fully incapacitate it (knock it out and tie it up to the point where it can't escape after regenerating), the encounter is effectively over. It's inappropriate to stat this ability as a template. And the way you describe the abilities aren't standard. Why would this not make sense as a template? What is nonstandard about the format? (I just tried to copy the Lycanthrope template, what needs to change?) Really I only see this as being applied to people, and "Unkilled" could be be just a normal monster that looks like a human and doesnt die. However there's no real reason to say "You can't have an Unkilled troll", so why not? (not rhetorical) My suggestion would be to just playtest creatures with and without the spell to find a suitable balance. Well, obviously, but a starting point is what I was looking for. What do you mean "spell", though? Unkilled is somewhat of a misnomer, but Unkillable doesn't sound as good, so what the heck. It's "Unkilled" in the same way a zombie is "Undead". Unliving = "Dead" Undead = "Not dead despite being killed" Unkilled = "Not killed despite being reduced to below -10 HP"
runestar 07-30-06, 03:27 AM	Wouldn't this depend on how readily the creature can be bypassed? It's no use having, say, an unkillable tarrasque guarding a cavern if my party can just cast mass fly and zip over it, or invis or sneak past it. After all, xp is rewarded to overcoming an encounter, which does not necessitate that you kill the creature in question. I would say it depends. As for LA, "-", since being unkillable essentially upsets any game.
Freefall 07-30-06, 04:43 AM	I don't know the nonlethal rules as well as I should, but doesn't a creature that sustains nonlethal damage equal to its total HP+10 fall unconscious? Since it can never be healed, I would think that overall this would actually make the creature significantly less threatening than it might be otherwise. It might also need some clarification on how it takes damage (unless I'm getting the rules wrong). In one part you state that any damage it takes can never be healed and any HP it loses are permanently gone. In the next section you say that it pretty much can never take HP damage, only nonlethal, although this doesn't quite make the first part moot since you also use the phrase "any damage taken is permanent," so I guess it doesn't really matter, since the nonlethal damage it takes would still be permanent. Anyway, the point is, as written, I don't see the threat. So it isn't technically dead, just permanently helpless, can't ever recover. I dunno, certainly doesn't seem to warrant an LA or CR increase. In fact, I would agree that an LA wouldn't really be appropriate, since the lack of XP means that in any party it ever joins it will eventually fall behind them.
Ra-Tiel 07-30-06, 05:25 AM	First, I agree with runestar. This template is imho not in any way suitable for player characters. It should - if it is brought into actual game at all - be exclusive for NPCs. Second, I'd like to offer a suggestion mechanically speaking. I'd make the template similar in mechanics to the tarrasque's regeneration. Something like: Regeneration (Ex) No form of attack deals lethal damage to an unkilled. An unkilled regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If an unkilled fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10. An unkilled is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability. An unkilled can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a [lesser] wish or miracle spell (or similar magical or psionic effect) to keep it dead. If an unkilled loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump. This way you can have an effectively unkillable creature, but there's still a way to get rid of it for good. As for the CR adjustment this template provides, perhaps you could make that dependent on how fast it regenerates? 5 or less HD: regeneration 1; CR +4 5 to 10 HD: regeneration 3; CR +6 11 to 20 HD: regeneration 5; CR +8 21 or more HD: regenration 10; CR +10
runestar 07-30-06, 06:57 AM	The cr adjustment itself needs some work. It would be impossible for a low lv party without access to those spells like wish, but for a high lv party, it would hardly be a speed bump. The only annoyance is burning xp for a wish spell. Also, there is very little correlation between cr and HD, since that too is dependent on the monster in question. I would suggest basing the cr increase off the original cr of the target monster. The lower its cr, the bigger will be the final cr increase. Maybe a creature of cr 5-7 will get a cr boost of +6, but for a creature of cr17, its cr will increase by only +1 or +2. :)
Ra-Tiel 07-30-06, 07:23 AM	The cr adjustment itself needs some work. [...] Well, I know. But this was just a quick idea as to how such a template could be realised, and what mechanics [sh\|c]ould be used. So, I don't offer any guarantees for the numbers in my above post. :P :D
Rake 07-30-06, 09:08 AM	CR for a creature that can never die? See: MMII - Phoenix
shruggar 07-30-06, 09:19 AM	Second, I'd like to offer a suggestion mechanically speaking. I'd make the template similar in mechanics to the tarrasque's regeneration. There's a very clear and important difference between "never regenerates, miracle or wish cannot be used to kill it" and "regenerates all damage, can only be killed by miracle or wish" I've thought about the alternative of: Once a creature becomes unkilled, it is considered to have double its usual hitpoints. This hitpoints effectively have infinite DR and ER, but can be used as a base for calculating the amount of damage needed for sundering attempts on its limbs. (*though this wording needs to change and it can still be disintegrated) Think "Black Knight", not "T-9000". It doesnt regenerate, but it doesnt care how badly it is injured. It Never falls unconcious, under any circumstances (other than through divine intervention or spells which will not be described here, that it can be assumed a party will not have ready access to), and a typical party will not actually be able to "Kill" it, only "Stop" it. It does not generate. If disintegrated, it stays as dust. Its conciousness is still there (and so it cannot be ressurected), but it is not likely to be a problem anymore. (I specified it can only be added to a corporeal creature in an attempt to ensure this always mattered)