Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kaminton 05-11-04, 07:53 PM	Is level +1 a reasonable CR for a vampiric paladin (instead of level +2)? My reasoning is that a vampire paladin loses pretty much all his abilities, and becomes equivalent to a warrior paladin (hp difference vanishes, only difference left is feat and skill selection, really - and the paladin's feats may be rendered useless depending on his choices).
Joe Gold 05-12-04, 03:43 AM	So he's cheering for the evil team now?
pestilenceawaits 05-12-04, 06:59 AM	I was thinking of doing something like this as well for a bad guy. Instead of making him less powerful and losing his abilities I decided the dark Gods pleased at gaining this once bright soul let him switch his Paladin levels to paladin of slaughter levels from the Unearthed Arcana book.
incarnadine 05-12-04, 11:33 AM	if your Pal is 10+ level i'd suggest you convert all of his Paladin levels to Black Guard. You can even fudge it(if your Pal doesn't hav ehte feats) if you like seeing as this is a somewhat special situation.
Kaminton 05-12-04, 11:36 AM	Originally posted by Joe Gold So he's cheering for the evil team now? In a sense - he was the archtypical goody-goody paladin (I use him as contrast to the PCs), who was blood drained by a vampire... and I don't have Unearthed Arcana, unfortunately.
Kaminton 05-12-04, 12:22 PM	Originally posted by incarnadine if your Pal is 10+ level i'd suggest you convert all of his Paladin levels to Black Guard. You can even fudge it(if your Pal doesn't hav ehte feats) if you like seeing as this is a somewhat special situation. Well, this is actually a Rgr1/PalX, where I expect X to be around 4 when this happens - so the NPC already meets the mechanical blackguard requirements. The RP requirement of peaceful contact with an evil outsider can be arranged easily enough. If the PCs don't destroy him during their first encounter with him as a vampire, he'll gain blackguard levels and return to the regular CR = level +2. So, does CR = level +1 sound reasonable for the transition stage?
incarnadine 05-13-04, 12:56 PM	I would only justify it if he lost a lot of things because of the change. I mean the ability to use magical items such as a Holy Avenger. The loss of low level spells, smite and aura is not too critical at this stage. He'll still have his weapons and armor and his high Charisma would work well for his Vampire abilities. If it was a cleric I’d definitely say yes though.
Kaminton 05-13-04, 07:04 PM	Originally posted by incarnadine I would only justify it if he lost a lot of things because of the change. I mean the ability to use magical items such as a Holy Avenger. The loss of low level spells, smite and aura is not too critical at this stage. He'll still have his weapons and armor and his high Charisma would work well for his Vampire abilities. If it was a cleric I’d definitely say yes though. :confused: Care to explain? The big ability that the paladin loses at the level I'm thinking about is divine grace. Clerics lose nothing at all - they keep their powerful spellcasting abilities (including the ability to spontaneously heal themselves), and their turning ability allows them to bolster themselves. From looking at the class features, the paladin essentially becomes a warrior (high BAB, good fort saves, 2 skill points/level, all simple & martial weapons, all armor and shields), a NPC class (which has CR = level -1). Actually, the warrior can use tower shields while the paladin can't...
pestilenceawaits 05-14-04, 10:11 AM	The paladin of slaughter is just like the regualr paladin but has evil abilities where good was before. smite good, detect good, etc. and the code involves sowing destruction and slaughter where ever they go and they lose their abilities if they knowingly commit good.
incarnadine 05-14-04, 12:20 PM	Originally posted by Kaminton :confused: Care to explain? The big ability that the paladin loses at the level I'm thinking about is divine grace. Clerics lose nothing at all - they keep their powerful spellcasting abilities (including the ability to spontaneously heal themselves), and their turning ability allows them to bolster themselves. From looking at the class features, the paladin essentially becomes a warrior (high BAB, good fort saves, 2 skill points/level, all simple & martial weapons, all armor and shields), a NPC class (which has CR = level -1). Actually, the warrior can use tower shields while the paladin can't... A LG cleric looses all spell casting and turning if he becomes an evil vampire. Divine Grace is good but at the least the Paladin has the essential combat skills he had before and that's enough to have him survive till he's able to gain the Black Guard class and then those Paladin levels become really useful. Besides the Vampire has a lot of REALLY good abilities which can make that paladin quite a challange at low levels if you play him smart.
Kaminton 05-14-04, 08:28 PM	Originally posted by incarnadine A LG cleric looses all spell casting and turning if he becomes an evil vampire. From the SRD: Vampire clerics lose their ability to turn undead but gain the ability to rebuke undead. This ability does not affect the vampire’s controller or any other vampires that a master controls. A vampire cleric has access to two of the following domains: Chaos, Destruction, Evil, or Trickery. So they pick up new domains but lose spellcasting abilities? That's not right... when I get home I need to check my MM. Can anyone else confirm that LG clerics lose spellcasting?
DwarvinJedi 05-14-04, 11:57 PM	Originally posted by Kaminton So they pick up new domains but lose spellcasting abilities? That's not right... when I get home I need to check my MM. Can anyone else confirm that LG clerics lose spellcasting? Well I would say that they could choose a new deity and cast spells as a cleric of that deity,