CR for New Demon Lord [Archive] - Wizards Community

CR for New Demon Lord [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GrimDwarf
04-23-04, 12:47 PM I'd love to say I'd already search the boards for an answer to this question, but since "search" has currently been disabled here goes:

My group is nearing the end of their quest to stop a powerful demon lord from entering their material plane and taking it over. Now that they are actually getting close, I figured I should finally create the demon. I've been through the Book of Vile Darkness and tried to correlate some of the demon lords listed so that I could develop a suitable challenge for the players. Any ideas where I might find something that shows how much a creatures CR is change by changing damage reduction from nothing to 20/+5, or giving them spell-like abilities, etc?

Keep in mind we're still using 3.0.
Kain Darkwind
04-23-04, 04:18 PM Since you are tailoring it specifically to them, you can make more accurate calculations of CR. For instance, DR 20/+5.....do any of them have a +5 weapon? Or do they all have one? Pretty much, I would eyeball it, make it seem about right. Use one of the archfiends from the BoVD as the base, and add specifics from there. What is the actual CR of this Demon Lord you are making?
GrimDwarf
04-23-04, 04:59 PM I'm hoping to stick with around a 20. There are 6 PC's. Currently 2 17's, and 4 16's. They wiped the floor with a CR 17 black dragon and I expect they'll have added a couple of more levels before they meet the big guy.
Kain Darkwind
04-28-04, 08:35 PM Ok, first a few things. If you want your PCs around level 20 to challenge the big guy, you want your big guy to be around a CR 25 or so....not CR 20. (Unless you feel they should just walk through him like an average encounter)

For a CR 25, I would suggest making a 35HD outsider, with average ability scores in the 30s, give it 3-5 unique abilities, a host of good spell like abilities (pit fiend or balor's list makes a good start), and have at it from there. Without knowing more about this specific bad guy, I can't tell you more.

Damage reduction X/+5 is useless if all PCs have +5 weapons or access to greater magic weapon. I'd give it a lower amount, like DR 15 or 20, but make a +6 weapon required to penatrate.

SR is standard for demons, CR+8. At CR 25, this guy would have SR 33.

AC for the Exalted Deeds celestial paragons followed this standard.
Insight bonus to AC=wisdom modifer.
Deflection bonus to AC=charisma modifer.
Natural Armor was between 15-20ish, since you are using a demonlord, I would suggest natural armor of +20, slightly lower if you have higher than normal wisdom/charisma/dex scores.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GrimDwarf 04-23-04, 12:47 PM	I'd love to say I'd already search the boards for an answer to this question, but since "search" has currently been disabled here goes: My group is nearing the end of their quest to stop a powerful demon lord from entering their material plane and taking it over. Now that they are actually getting close, I figured I should finally create the demon. I've been through the Book of Vile Darkness and tried to correlate some of the demon lords listed so that I could develop a suitable challenge for the players. Any ideas where I might find something that shows how much a creatures CR is change by changing damage reduction from nothing to 20/+5, or giving them spell-like abilities, etc? Keep in mind we're still using 3.0.
Kain Darkwind 04-23-04, 04:18 PM	Since you are tailoring it specifically to them, you can make more accurate calculations of CR. For instance, DR 20/+5.....do any of them have a +5 weapon? Or do they all have one? Pretty much, I would eyeball it, make it seem about right. Use one of the archfiends from the BoVD as the base, and add specifics from there. What is the actual CR of this Demon Lord you are making?
GrimDwarf 04-23-04, 04:59 PM	I'm hoping to stick with around a 20. There are 6 PC's. Currently 2 17's, and 4 16's. They wiped the floor with a CR 17 black dragon and I expect they'll have added a couple of more levels before they meet the big guy.
Kain Darkwind 04-28-04, 08:35 PM	Ok, first a few things. If you want your PCs around level 20 to challenge the big guy, you want your big guy to be around a CR 25 or so....not CR 20. (Unless you feel they should just walk through him like an average encounter) For a CR 25, I would suggest making a 35HD outsider, with average ability scores in the 30s, give it 3-5 unique abilities, a host of good spell like abilities (pit fiend or balor's list makes a good start), and have at it from there. Without knowing more about this specific bad guy, I can't tell you more. Damage reduction X/+5 is useless if all PCs have +5 weapons or access to greater magic weapon. I'd give it a lower amount, like DR 15 or 20, but make a +6 weapon required to penatrate. SR is standard for demons, CR+8. At CR 25, this guy would have SR 33. AC for the Exalted Deeds celestial paragons followed this standard. Insight bonus to AC=wisdom modifer. Deflection bonus to AC=charisma modifer. Natural Armor was between 15-20ish, since you are using a demonlord, I would suggest natural armor of +20, slightly lower if you have higher than normal wisdom/charisma/dex scores.