Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Golden Zealot 03-19-06, 07:20 PM	i think i read somewhere that for a monster that can summon others, like many demons and devils do, these summoned creatures fall under the CR of the original creature and so no extra experience is gained from defeating them. If this is true, it would mean that one creature could summon another of the same kind, who could in turn summon another of the same kind, and the players could end up facing an army which has the CR and experience reward of a single creature, so im a bit confused about this :confused:
dok 03-19-06, 07:23 PM	i think i read somewhere that for a monster that can summon others, like many demons and devils do, these summoned creatures fall under the CR of the original creature and so no extra experience is gained from defeating them. That's correct. If this is true, it would mean that one creature could summon another of the same kind, who could in turn summon another of the same kind, and the players could end up facing an army which has the CR and experience reward of a single creature... That's incorrect. If you read the SRD entry for Summoning abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#summon), you'll notice this line: A creature that has just been summoned cannot use its own summon ability for 1 hour. One creature could summon another of the same kind, but that's where it ends.
ChaoticGod 03-19-06, 07:24 PM	Yes summoned creatures are part of the original creatures CR. Summoned creatures are specifically barred from using their own summoning ablities, this prevents the 'infinite loop' scenario you describe.
runestar 03-19-06, 08:50 PM	Note that if said creature had been gated in however, there would be nothing stopping it from using its own summoning ability.
Golden Zealot 03-20-06, 02:22 PM	Note that if said creature had been gated in however, there would be nothing stopping it from using its own summoning ability. that reminds me, if a wizard or some magical creature used gate to summon an outsider, would both be part of the wizards CR? what if the gated creature then summoned another creature of his own? thanks
runestar 03-20-06, 09:19 PM	that reminds me, if a wizard or some magical creature used gate to summon an outsider, would both be part of the wizards CR? what if the gated creature then summoned another creature of his own? I don't think so. But note that the gated monster is under no compulsion to serve the wizard, so he could turn against him just as easily... The titan gates in another titan who in turn gates in a 3rd titan and so on combo is fun!!! :D
Kresalak 03-20-06, 09:22 PM	Actually, a Gated creature is controlled by the caster so long as it's HD are not equal to or greater than the caster level of the caster.
runestar 03-20-06, 09:48 PM	YEah, I forgot that part. I was thinking about the war of the spider queen novel then... :embarrass
Guan 03-21-06, 08:27 AM	that reminds me, if a wizard or some magical creature used gate to summon an outsider, would both be part of the wizards CR? what if the gated creature then summoned another creature of his own? thanks Yup! Sucks doesn't it. The logic goes that the "Gate" was part of the original creatures abilities and CR. Kinda like if a druid hides in a forest 100ft away and summons enhanced / buffed creatures every round. I've seen really bad examples of this with authors having their high level wizards use multiple "gates" in the next room to summon three or four Balors before moving against the PC's. Though this was an extreme example. Good gaming. -Guan