Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sildatorak 09-16-06, 10:10 AM	OK, I'm thinking about throwing a mob (DMGII) of ghosts (low-level warrior ghosts) at my PC's. I will be picking the ghost ability that gives them the 1d6 touch attack (otherwise I don't think I can justify the mob damage), and probalby the one that tacks 1d4 ability damage onto the touch attack. This, coupled with the incorporeality, more hp, better AC, and otherwise straight-up betterness than a normal mob of humans makes me question the CR 8 that all mobs made up of creatures CR 6 or less get as a default. What is this ghost mob? Closer to a 9? 10? or is 8 just a bit high for the human mob to begin with?
Slagger the Chuul 09-16-06, 11:00 AM	Keep in mind that a mob has no standard attacks, so its draining touch will be applied just once to each creature damaged, and it wouldn't be able to use certain abilities that it might normally have (like frightful moan and telekinesis). The expert grappler ability isn't much use to an incorporeal mob, trample won't be as dangerous or as hard to resist (if you allow it at all), and the two bonus feats the mob gets are next to useless. Effects like undead turning will work particularly well against a ghost mob, since the individual spirits will be quite weak. Each individual ghost that is affected would bestow two negative levels on the mob, which can put quite a dent in its effectiveness. Also, if a ghost mob is dispersed with lethal attacks, 60% of the ghosts would be destroyed outright (since 30% of the individuals in a mob are slain, and another 30% are reduced to 0 hit points). If you do want a modification, you could add the +2 CR that the ghost template applies.
Sildatorak 09-16-06, 01:38 PM	Effects like undead turning will work particularly well against a ghost mob, since the individual spirits will be quite weak. Each individual ghost that is affected would bestow two negative levels on the mob, which can put quite a dent in its effectiveness. I hadn't considered that; I had been thinking of it as a single 30 HD undead and thought that I would use the "turning swarms" rule from Libris Mortis to call it a 15 HD undead for turning purposes. I think your method will work better, though, since it won't make turning an all-or-nothing proposition. Instead the cleric will be able to steadily wear away at the mob. If you do want a modification, you could add the +2 CR that the ghost template applies. I think I am going to split the difference between having it as a mob of ghosts and a ghostly mob and call it a CR 9 just to see how it plays out.
Jeanette 09-16-06, 10:12 PM	Figure the number (because I dont know how this mob thing works) and for each time you double the number of creatures add 2 to the CR, 2 CR 1 monsters are CR2, 4 are a CR 4, 8 are a CR 6, et certa. And really...with thaking that into account the mob thing like you said it seems incredibly broken **shrug**
Sildatorak 09-17-06, 08:11 PM	And really...with thaking that into account the mob thing like you said it seems incredibly broken **shrug** Mobs work a lot like swarms in that they do auto damage and basically function as a single much larger creature. I've met with decent success using mobs of villagers, but I was just curious about the effects of trying mobs of alternate things.
Slagger the Chuul 09-17-06, 11:18 PM	Pretty much any time you want the players to face a threat composed of numbers, rather than powerful individuals, the mob is a godsend. Orc hordes, ravenous zombies, irate peasants, stampeding horses, and the legions of hell are just a few possibilities.