CR Question: Lich Human 46 Wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

CR Question: Lich Human 46 Wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mr. Styx
08-19-05, 06:43 PM Okay, I have a question of finding CR for something. One of my characters is a level 46 Human Lich Wizard. How would I find CR for something like this?
I_am_an_undead
08-19-05, 06:48 PM You should buy the epic level handbook. There is a lot of creatures with high CR.
Mr. Styx
08-19-05, 06:51 PM I dont want to find more high CR creatures.. I'd like to find the CR of MY lich.
MythMage
08-19-05, 06:55 PM I'm not sure precisely what you want.

His Effective Character Level is 50, and he should be battling things whose CR are near his ECL most of the time, if he's a PC.

As an enemy of the PCs, his CR would be kind of a tricky thing. By the rules mentioned in the Epic Level Handbook, the CR of an NPC with class levels is equal to those class levels, plus anything based on his race. However, epic levels are sparser in power, and the ELH effective states that you should deduct 2 from the CR derived by class at level 25, and an additional 2 at each 10 levels thereafter. This is about equal to -1 CR per 5 levels past 25, and -2 between 23 and 25. Applying this rule, your lich's CR (an enemy of the PCs, for XP purposes) is 43.
The Abominable Darkling
08-19-05, 06:56 PM Well, the formula for NPC CRs is bad for nonepic NPCs and even worse for epic NPCs. As I recall, the ELH recommends a -2 CR adjustment per 10 levels above 20. If you follow that guideline, it'd put the CR of the lich at 42. But honestly, the best answer to your question is: who the hell knows?
I_am_an_undead
08-19-05, 07:00 PM According to the rules, it has a CR of 48 but a ECL of 50.
Ogre4Hire
08-19-05, 07:14 PM It's important to keep in mind that CR really doesn't mean as much at epic levels. Do to the slowdown of treasure accumulation and the fact that character effective power tends to plateau (it gets to the point where one more ability just doesn't do that much, especially with all the instant death abilities available even at pre-epic levels), the swing for CR really becomes something more along the lines of "A party within 5 levels of this number should be able to take this critter."
Mr. Styx
08-19-05, 11:59 PM Thanks! Also, if it matters though it's a PC... I noticed you kept saying NPC, but I'm not sure if it makes a difference. See my friend and I were having a disagreement, He was saying that a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon of CR 27 would easily kill me... But I'm thinking my Lich would feast on the dragon's flesh and blood...
The Abominable Darkling
08-20-05, 12:17 AM We had assumed you meant an NPC because you asked about CR. A PC's challenge rating is irrelevant. What you want is your effective character level, which (as others have mentioned) is 50. Under normal circumstances, a level 50 character should have no trouble handling a CR 27 on his own (he wouldn't even get XP for beating it because it's so weak). Anyhow, the only way to truly settle such an argument is to play it out.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mr. Styx 08-19-05, 06:43 PM	Okay, I have a question of finding CR for something. One of my characters is a level 46 Human Lich Wizard. How would I find CR for something like this?
I_am_an_undead 08-19-05, 06:48 PM	You should buy the epic level handbook. There is a lot of creatures with high CR.
Mr. Styx 08-19-05, 06:51 PM	I dont want to find more high CR creatures.. I'd like to find the CR of MY lich.
MythMage 08-19-05, 06:55 PM	I'm not sure precisely what you want. His Effective Character Level is 50, and he should be battling things whose CR are near his ECL most of the time, if he's a PC. As an enemy of the PCs, his CR would be kind of a tricky thing. By the rules mentioned in the Epic Level Handbook, the CR of an NPC with class levels is equal to those class levels, plus anything based on his race. However, epic levels are sparser in power, and the ELH effective states that you should deduct 2 from the CR derived by class at level 25, and an additional 2 at each 10 levels thereafter. This is about equal to -1 CR per 5 levels past 25, and -2 between 23 and 25. Applying this rule, your lich's CR (an enemy of the PCs, for XP purposes) is 43.
The Abominable Darkling 08-19-05, 06:56 PM	Well, the formula for NPC CRs is bad for nonepic NPCs and even worse for epic NPCs. As I recall, the ELH recommends a -2 CR adjustment per 10 levels above 20. If you follow that guideline, it'd put the CR of the lich at 42. But honestly, the best answer to your question is: who the hell knows?
I_am_an_undead 08-19-05, 07:00 PM	According to the rules, it has a CR of 48 but a ECL of 50.
Ogre4Hire 08-19-05, 07:14 PM	It's important to keep in mind that CR really doesn't mean as much at epic levels. Do to the slowdown of treasure accumulation and the fact that character effective power tends to plateau (it gets to the point where one more ability just doesn't do that much, especially with all the instant death abilities available even at pre-epic levels), the swing for CR really becomes something more along the lines of "A party within 5 levels of this number should be able to take this critter."
Mr. Styx 08-19-05, 11:59 PM	Thanks! Also, if it matters though it's a PC... I noticed you kept saying NPC, but I'm not sure if it makes a difference. See my friend and I were having a disagreement, He was saying that a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon of CR 27 would easily kill me... But I'm thinking my Lich would feast on the dragon's flesh and blood...
The Abominable Darkling 08-20-05, 12:17 AM	We had assumed you meant an NPC because you asked about CR. A PC's challenge rating is irrelevant. What you want is your effective character level, which (as others have mentioned) is 50. Under normal circumstances, a level 50 character should have no trouble handling a CR 27 on his own (he wouldn't even get XP for beating it because it's so weak). Anyhow, the only way to truly settle such an argument is to play it out.