Crack The Monster Code [Archive] - Wizards Community

Crack The Monster Code [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gwenfloor
09-14-06, 07:39 PM I have had mixed groups of monsters and humanoids in my party, and the monsters inevitably fall underpowered. I decided to "crack the code" for playable monsters.
A lot of people have been saying on the Wizards Message Boards that Monster Classes pale in comparison to Core Classes and their non-monstrous races (human, dwarf, etc.). I have seen the results first-hand. I had a Stone Giant of ECL 12 in a party with a 12th level Dwarven Fighter. The Stone Giant had less Hit Points, despite his massive Constitution Bonus, and actually dealt less damage on average compared to the Dwarf, who had bonus feats, higher Base Attack Bonus, better Saving Throws, and more hit points. The Level Adjustments usually cause monsters to become one-trick ponies, which have special abilities but a low amount of feats and hit points.
For our Dwarf/Giant example, let’s break them down at 9th level by Savage Species’ Stone Giant Monster Class:
Assume both use a 28 point buy, and place all their skills into the abilities that matter most to their role: 18 in Strength, 14 in Dexterity, and 14 in Constitution. They both put their 2 bonus points at 4th and 8th level into Strength, making it 20. The Stone Giant has a +6 to Strength, +2 to Dexterity, and a +2 to Constitution. The Stone Giant has 24 Strength, 16 Dexterity, and a 16 Constitution. The Dwarf has 20, 14, and 16, respectively, with a +2 bonus to Constitution. The Stone Giant can throw rocks, has natural armor, modified Saving Throws of +8, +5, and +2, and 7 Hit Die. The Dwarf gets Bonus feats, 9 Hit Die, and modified Saving Throws of +11, +6, and +4. The Dwarf will have Higher Hit Points on average and better Saving Throws. The Dwarf is more likely to succeed on Saving Throws, but can’t throw and catch rocks, and has a lower Armor Class, which is off-set by using a Longbow for ranged attacks, complemented by Bonus Feats in order to help him in combat, plus Armor Class enhancing bonus feats, armor, and magic. Armor adjusted for larger creatures, and/or ones with bizarre anatomies, is twice as expensive, leaving the Dwarf with leftover money. The Stone Giant gets not as much feats, leaving him with limited options in a fight other than smash and kill, which the dwarf is better at doing. In conclusion, who would make a better fighter?
Thus, I propose a new system for monster classes, without the Level Adjustment. The amount of levels in a monster class depends on the monster’s Hit Die. The Buying off Level Adjustment rule is taken from Unearthed Arcana, where the monster character would spend extra experience points to buy the more powerful features of the monster, and their Racial Hit Die is included into the Required Character Level. The amount of experience points depends upon the level adjustment. Thus, the monster PCs have the same amount of Hit Die, Skill Points, Feats and Saving Throws as the non-monstrous PCs, but have to pay extra experience points to buy the more powerful features.
I have yet to complete the system, but it will keep monsters relatively balanced, and in order to gain their most powerful abilities, they must pay experience points equal to the "Buying Off Level Adjustment" Rule in Unearthed Arcana, buying one ability per effective Level Adjustment. Note that they will have some of their trademark abilities, but the game-breaking ones must be bought with experience points.
Slagger the Chuul
09-14-06, 09:04 PM Make sure that the abilities can only be bought in order (base it off the monster classes). This should allow you to produce a simple, standard progression, without creating characters that gain their most powerful abilities first.

As for regular monsters, you really have to play to play to their strengths. For example, the stone giant is a walking catapult who can lob rocks into the rear ranks of your enemies (his base range is significantly better than a composite longbow), and spells doom for enemy mages. However, he really needs the Brutal Throw feat (from Complete Adventurer), so that he can use his Strength for attack rolls with thrown weapons, instead of Dexterity.
Gwenfloor
09-14-06, 09:08 PM More "mundane" abilities, like Climb/Swim/Fly speeds can be duplicated by means of magic at early or later levels. A 14 Hit Die Creature with a Fly Speed would thus be equivalent to a 14th level Character. By my reasoning, monster classes are like normal classes, but their class features are the abilities that they learn.
For minor abilities like Scent and casting some spells at will, sometimes may not result in a Level Adjustment. The reason is that Paladins can detect evil at will due to their class, but they do not get a level adjustmen, plus the spell is low level. If the at will spell is game-breaking, like healing spells, then a level adjustment is in order. Scent can be duplicated with a Druid's Wild Shape into an animal with the quality, or an animal companion.
Molitor
09-14-06, 09:21 PM Don't forget that the giant would also be getting stat increases every 4 hd like the dwarf.
Insane Pixie
09-14-06, 09:39 PM And stat bonuses for size increases.
Gwenfloor
09-14-06, 10:20 PM I already factored the stats in. He was on the upper limits of Medium at 9th level. My rules would keep the trademark abilities for monsters at low levels, but they gain benefits at higher levels. For example, the Medusa monster class will be able to control her gaze attack better at higher levels, plus it will become stronger. The abilities that are game-breaking from day one are the ones that need to be bought. For example, a Nymph's Unearthly Beauty (Save or Die abilities in general) would need to be bought, but her blinding beauty will increase in power and Save DC, and duration. At low levels, it will have a short duration.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gwenfloor 09-14-06, 07:39 PM	I have had mixed groups of monsters and humanoids in my party, and the monsters inevitably fall underpowered. I decided to "crack the code" for playable monsters. A lot of people have been saying on the Wizards Message Boards that Monster Classes pale in comparison to Core Classes and their non-monstrous races (human, dwarf, etc.). I have seen the results first-hand. I had a Stone Giant of ECL 12 in a party with a 12th level Dwarven Fighter. The Stone Giant had less Hit Points, despite his massive Constitution Bonus, and actually dealt less damage on average compared to the Dwarf, who had bonus feats, higher Base Attack Bonus, better Saving Throws, and more hit points. The Level Adjustments usually cause monsters to become one-trick ponies, which have special abilities but a low amount of feats and hit points. For our Dwarf/Giant example, let’s break them down at 9th level by Savage Species’ Stone Giant Monster Class: Assume both use a 28 point buy, and place all their skills into the abilities that matter most to their role: 18 in Strength, 14 in Dexterity, and 14 in Constitution. They both put their 2 bonus points at 4th and 8th level into Strength, making it 20. The Stone Giant has a +6 to Strength, +2 to Dexterity, and a +2 to Constitution. The Stone Giant has 24 Strength, 16 Dexterity, and a 16 Constitution. The Dwarf has 20, 14, and 16, respectively, with a +2 bonus to Constitution. The Stone Giant can throw rocks, has natural armor, modified Saving Throws of +8, +5, and +2, and 7 Hit Die. The Dwarf gets Bonus feats, 9 Hit Die, and modified Saving Throws of +11, +6, and +4. The Dwarf will have Higher Hit Points on average and better Saving Throws. The Dwarf is more likely to succeed on Saving Throws, but can’t throw and catch rocks, and has a lower Armor Class, which is off-set by using a Longbow for ranged attacks, complemented by Bonus Feats in order to help him in combat, plus Armor Class enhancing bonus feats, armor, and magic. Armor adjusted for larger creatures, and/or ones with bizarre anatomies, is twice as expensive, leaving the Dwarf with leftover money. The Stone Giant gets not as much feats, leaving him with limited options in a fight other than smash and kill, which the dwarf is better at doing. In conclusion, who would make a better fighter? Thus, I propose a new system for monster classes, without the Level Adjustment. The amount of levels in a monster class depends on the monster’s Hit Die. The Buying off Level Adjustment rule is taken from Unearthed Arcana, where the monster character would spend extra experience points to buy the more powerful features of the monster, and their Racial Hit Die is included into the Required Character Level. The amount of experience points depends upon the level adjustment. Thus, the monster PCs have the same amount of Hit Die, Skill Points, Feats and Saving Throws as the non-monstrous PCs, but have to pay extra experience points to buy the more powerful features. I have yet to complete the system, but it will keep monsters relatively balanced, and in order to gain their most powerful abilities, they must pay experience points equal to the "Buying Off Level Adjustment" Rule in Unearthed Arcana, buying one ability per effective Level Adjustment. Note that they will have some of their trademark abilities, but the game-breaking ones must be bought with experience points.
Slagger the Chuul 09-14-06, 09:04 PM	Make sure that the abilities can only be bought in order (base it off the monster classes). This should allow you to produce a simple, standard progression, without creating characters that gain their most powerful abilities first. As for regular monsters, you really have to play to play to their strengths. For example, the stone giant is a walking catapult who can lob rocks into the rear ranks of your enemies (his base range is significantly better than a composite longbow), and spells doom for enemy mages. However, he really needs the Brutal Throw feat (from Complete Adventurer), so that he can use his Strength for attack rolls with thrown weapons, instead of Dexterity.
Gwenfloor 09-14-06, 09:08 PM	More "mundane" abilities, like Climb/Swim/Fly speeds can be duplicated by means of magic at early or later levels. A 14 Hit Die Creature with a Fly Speed would thus be equivalent to a 14th level Character. By my reasoning, monster classes are like normal classes, but their class features are the abilities that they learn. For minor abilities like Scent and casting some spells at will, sometimes may not result in a Level Adjustment. The reason is that Paladins can detect evil at will due to their class, but they do not get a level adjustmen, plus the spell is low level. If the at will spell is game-breaking, like healing spells, then a level adjustment is in order. Scent can be duplicated with a Druid's Wild Shape into an animal with the quality, or an animal companion.
Molitor 09-14-06, 09:21 PM	Don't forget that the giant would also be getting stat increases every 4 hd like the dwarf.
Insane Pixie 09-14-06, 09:39 PM	And stat bonuses for size increases.
Gwenfloor 09-14-06, 10:20 PM	I already factored the stats in. He was on the upper limits of Medium at 9th level. My rules would keep the trademark abilities for monsters at low levels, but they gain benefits at higher levels. For example, the Medusa monster class will be able to control her gaze attack better at higher levels, plus it will become stronger. The abilities that are game-breaking from day one are the ones that need to be bought. For example, a Nymph's Unearthly Beauty (Save or Die abilities in general) would need to be bought, but her blinding beauty will increase in power and Save DC, and duration. At low levels, it will have a short duration.