Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Vorpal Tribble 06-22-06, 12:33 PM	Ok, can anyone point me to where the rules are for actually making a construct? "Enchanting a construct takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its market price. To enchant a construct, a spellcaster must spend 1/25 the item’s price in XP and use up raw materials costing half of this price (see individual construct monster entries for details)." Good for you, so, how much is its market price or base price? The Monster Manual sends you to look in the DMG, the DMG sends you to the PHB. No where can I find where any of these books gives specifics.
Haruspex 06-22-06, 01:00 PM	In the SRD I have, the price and base cost are at the end bit of the monster description. Construction A stone golem’s body is chiseled from a single block of hard stone, such as granite, weighing at least 3,000 pounds. The stone must be of exceptional quality, and costs 5,000 gp. Assembling the body requires a DC 17 Craft (sculpting) check or a DC 17 Craft (stonemasonry) check. CL 14th; Craft Construct, antimagic field, geas/quest, slow, symbol of stunning, caster must be at least 14th level; Price 90,000 gp; Cost 50,000 gp + 3,400 XP. I got that off the SRD. Hope that helps.
The Vorpal Tribble 06-22-06, 01:01 PM	But what if you are making a completely new construct not found in a book? How do you figure its base price?
Haruspex 06-22-06, 01:08 PM	But what if you are making a completely new construct not found in a book? How do you figure its base price? Hm. I just assumed that you could only make constructs that were listed in the Monster Manual. Just like you can only enchant a weapon using weapon properties that are listed in the rules. I think the artificer class from the Eberron campaign setting lets you tinker around with constructs more. Other than that, I don't think the core rules let you make your own constructs.
The Vorpal Tribble 06-22-06, 01:15 PM	Hm. Other than that, I don't think the core rules let you make your own constructs. Then how do Wizards determine how much a construct should cost? Surely there are some guidelines. The Craft Construct feat for instance says you can make any construct you meet the prerequisites of: CRAFT CONSTRUCT [ITEM CREATION] Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item. Benefit: A creature with this feat can create any construct whose prerequisites it meets. Enchanting a construct takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its market price. To enchant a construct, a spellcaster must spend 1/25 the item’s price in XP and use up raw materials costing half of this price (see individual construct monster entries for details). A creature with this feat can repair constructs that have taken damage. In one day of work, the creature can repair up to 20 points of damage by expending 50 gp per point of damage repaired. A newly created construct has average hit points for its Hit Dice.
Haruspex 06-22-06, 01:25 PM	Then how do Wizards determine how much a construct should cost? Surely there are some guidelines. The Craft Construct feat for instance says you can make any construct you meet the prerequisites of: CRAFT CONSTRUCT [ITEM CREATION] Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item. Benefit: A creature with this feat can create any construct whose prerequisites it meets. Enchanting a construct takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its market price. To enchant a construct, a spellcaster must spend 1/25 the item’s price in XP and use up raw materials costing half of this price (see individual construct monster entries for details). A creature with this feat can repair constructs that have taken damage. In one day of work, the creature can repair up to 20 points of damage by expending 50 gp per point of damage repaired. A newly created construct has average hit points for its Hit Dice. I don't know. The same way they determine CR for creatures and the prices for weapon enhancements probably. Maybe they didn't want PCs to spend too much time making constructs. You could try houseruling your own constructs, but not everyone is down with that. P.S. I agree with you however. Having constructs is one of the best things about being a spellcaster.
The Vorpal Tribble 06-22-06, 01:30 PM	You could try houseruling your own constructs, but not everyone is down with that. The thing is that I've posted several constructs and I've been asked how to make them as a character. As constructs have their own type you would think they would give guidelines for DM's to make new ones. They give rules for every other aspect of monster making... So its not really a matter of houseruling.
cwslyclgh 06-22-06, 01:38 PM	you should use the primary way of finding out the market price of all magic items (other then wands, staves, potions and scrolls)... and that is by comparing it to other similar items (or in this case constructs), just as normal magic items do not have a set formula (just a set of guidelines in case you want to make something completly new) neither do constructs. if your new construct is a bit weaker then a stone golem, it should probably cost a bit less, etc... over all it requires a fair bit of judgement on the DM's part.
cwslyclgh 06-22-06, 01:41 PM	Just like you can only enchant a weapon using weapon properties that are listed in the rules. says who? not the rules any place.
Morwen 06-22-06, 02:00 PM	It probably depends on the CR of the Construct in question, and the required Caster Level to construct it. Let's see how that works out for the MM and MM3 Constructs: 250,000 gp CR 18 CL 17 Prismatic Golem 210,000 gp CR 15 CL 19 Grisgol 196,000 gp CR 16 CL 14 Greater Stone Golem 170,000 gp CR 15 CL 18 Slaughterstone Behemoth 150,000 gp CR 13 CL 16 Iron Golem 144,000 gp CR 13 CL 16 Hangman Golem 130,000 gp CR 11 CL 17 Shadesteel Golem 127,500 gp CR 12 CL 16 Slaughterstone Eviscerator 120,000 gp CR 8 CL 15 Shield Guardian 90,000 gp CR 11 CL 14 Stone Golem 85,000 gp CR 8 CL 13 Shredstorm 70,000 gp CR 11 CL 14 Alchemical Golem 65,000 gp CR 7 CL 14 Web Golem 65,000 gp CR 11 CL 14 Mud Golem 40,000 gp CR 7 CL 11 Gloom Golem 40,000 gp CR 10 CL 11 Clay Golem 20,000 gp CR 7 CL 8 Flesh Golem ~2,000 gp CR 1 CL 4 Homunculus It would appear that Caster Level makes more of an impact than CR, although that also appears to matter for some of the higher-CR'd constructs. A bigger sample seems needed to get any useful information out of this. I'll create one for all constructable constructs when I find the time :)
Haruspex 06-22-06, 02:36 PM	says who? not the rules any place. What I meant to say was that you can't simply add new weapon enhancements that you came up with. Same logic applies for anything else. (Constructs, spells, ets) If you choose to add your own, non-published things, that would fall under houseruling, which is fine. But I assumed that the OP wanted something official, as in a WoTC-published guide to making his own non-listed constructs, which I don't think exists. (Correct me if I am wrong)
The Vorpal Tribble 06-22-06, 10:05 PM	that is by comparing it to other similar items Well, then how do the folks at wizards do it originally? Just say, 'Hey, 10,000 look good?' and then compare everything to it? I mean, I guess you could do it that way, but a method so unprecise just doesn't sound right.
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-22-06, 10:43 PM	Well, then how do the folks at wizards do it originally? Just say, 'Hey, 10,000 look good?' and then compare everything to it? I mean, I guess you could do it that way, but a method so unprecise just doesn't sound right. Like most magic item pricing schemes, the numbers were pulled dierctly from thier ******s, then a poorly thought out formula was applied.
The Vorpal Tribble 06-22-06, 10:48 PM	Like most magic item pricing schemes, the numbers were pulled dierctly from thier ******s, then a poorly thought out formula was applied. Lovely :bored:
R.M.G.C.L.F. 06-22-06, 11:42 PM	There IS a formula, but its in an obscure, non-SRD book. Because they don't like you.
cwslyclgh 06-23-06, 01:10 AM	FWIW several 3rd party books have construct "formulas" that work to varying degrees.
Vaalingrade Ashland 06-23-06, 02:56 AM	... they censored that word? Just so everyone knows, I didn't use an obscenity, I used the word that starts with 'rec'.
Raven Dark 06-23-06, 01:16 PM	I think there should be a standard too. Things get pretty crazy if you let players make judicious use of Craft Construct. Trust me, I know... ...I once had a 16th-level gnome who worked its way up to 17th-level, but gave it up in favor of using his XP and gold to build a maximum hit dice runic guardian* with the following spells built into it: haste, heroics**, master air**, master’s touch**, mirror image, and transmute rock to mud. The damn thing ended up being more powerful than some epic level monsters! With its huge greatsword and feat-gaining spells, it had +40/+35/+30/+25 melee (4d6+46/19-20)! Every single successful hit forced a save versus massive damage. :D If it used its fist it would do 2 slams +51 melee (3d8+15 plus stunning strike) and force a Fortitude save versus DC 50 or be stunned for 1 round. It was crazy. If that wasn't enough, Tyler the Giant Killer had enough XP and funds left over to build three mud golems too, which were constantly healed by the runic guardian's transmute rock to mud ability. With his minions, Tyler (a gnome cleric 3/wizard 3/mystic therge 10) could easily destroy anything short of a Titan...those guys took just a little bit more work. * See the Monster Manual II for more details. ** See the Spell Compendium for more details.