Creating monsters larger than Colossal. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Creating monsters larger than Colossal. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Davus Antonius
10-21-03, 07:45 PM Is there any guide to creating monsters of these sizes? I know there's a lot of info on creating monsters up to Colossal, but I'd like to know if there's anything for larger sizes.
Wickerbull
10-21-03, 09:08 PM Do you have the Epic Level Handbook? If you do, look in the monster section or wherever, I think they mention Colossal+ as a size catergory somewhere in there. I don't have the book, so I can't tell you for certain. Anyway, the other size catergories follow a pattern, and unfortunately, I can't tell you what it is, because I loaned my MM out to someone, and I can't find the chart I want anywhere else. I'd say, if you have access to the size chart that shows the AC bonuses and penalties, just take it up one more past Colossal, and increase everything according to the pattern. There you go.
sandskimmer
10-21-03, 09:10 PM I don't think there's anything official, but check out this thread from the Epic forum:
Titanic sized creatures (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105686)
MightyMightyThundarr
10-21-03, 09:58 PM Colossal+ isn't really a size category, its just there to represent how epic dragons have better breath weapons and reach than dragons that are just "colossal". They are actually about the same physical size.

For simplicity's sake, you can just continue to expand the size bonuses exponentially. The next step up from colossal would have a -16 to AC and attack rolls, next up from that has -32, etc. I would start the next step after colossal with creatures whose facing is 50 feet., then the next step after that at 70 or 80.
RhoxandRoll
10-22-03, 03:21 PM In the munchkin Monster Manual they have the ludicrous size category...
ruleslawyer
10-22-03, 03:30 PM Officially, the "Colossal" size category represents the minimum size for the category all the way to infinity. There is a semi-exception for epic dragons, as Thundarr mentioned (it only affects particular abilities), but otherwise, nothing. You could create a "Titanic" size category, as sandskimmer did, but I certainly wouldn't just extend the size category system indefinitely.
Davus Antonius
10-22-03, 08:20 PM Thanks for the help! Hmm... this gives me some ideas :devil:
MightyMightyThundarr
10-22-03, 08:31 PM And really, the only reason for making actual size categories larget than colossal is if you want to have a colossal creature fighting something that is much, much larger than itself. For medium sized creatures, the difference is relatively minimal: you aren't going to miss it if you shoot at it. It MAY come into play if you have a creature the size of a mountain trying to land a hit on a creature the size of, oh, a football field.
Edymnion
10-22-03, 08:44 PM Actually, I have created a creature that is substantially larger than Colossal, more than enough to justify a new size catagory. My Stronghold Sentinal is an entire castle complex that gets up and attacks, and the biggest are approx 50% larger than a Stone Colossus. More than large enough for a new size catagory, just follow the patterns from the other size catagories to make it.
Sken Dingle
10-23-03, 11:17 AM As mentioned above, Colossal applys to anything that's about 70 feet long/tall and above.

The Titanic creatures in the MM2 are only gargantuan.

Anyway a kaijued monster is still colassal, and if anyone knows their kaiju mythology that can get up to almost 1000 feet tall dpending on what era you follow. Usually they are around 150-200 feet tall. That is alot larger than most colassal creatures in D and D, but it is still considered colossal. Just look at the size chart in the Kaiju article in that Dragon.
edsonaoki
10-23-03, 05:22 PM For medium sized creatures, the difference is relatively minimal: you aren't going to miss it if you shoot at it.

Well, if the monster has +80 natural armor...
E-Arkham
10-23-03, 07:43 PM "Ok, guys, today's Epic adventure will have you fighting a titantic creature... I see that you've all picked out miniatures for your PCs, so my eight-year old brother will be playing the to-scale role of Mega-Alpha Ruffazulla... Help him on the table, would you?"

Kep
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
10-23-03, 08:49 PM Originally posted by Sken Dingle
As mentioned above, Colossal applys to anything that's about 70 feet long/tall and above.

The Titanic creatures in the MM2 are only gargantuan.

Anyway a kaijued monster is still colassal, and if anyone knows their kaiju mythology that can get up to almost 1000 feet tall dpending on what era you follow. Usually they are around 150-200 feet tall. That is alot larger than most colassal creatures in D and D, but it is still considered colossal. Just look at the size chart in the Kaiju article in that Dragon. No kaiju reaches 1000 feet in height. Mecha King Ghidorah manages to reach 492 feet, but nothing gets higher than that.
Sken Dingle
10-24-03, 10:27 AM Originally posted by Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
No kaiju reaches 1000 feet in height. Mecha King Ghidorah manages to reach 492 feet, but nothing gets higher than that.

My mistake, my mistake. I was thinking 300+ meters, when it was 300+ feet. I know they always measure them in meters and metric tons and I got confused. Still, 496 feet is far greater than any DnD colassal beast, but would still be considered colassal by the book. Go figure.

And no, man, nothing gets higher than King Ghidora. Will he take us with him. Groovy.
MightyMightyThundarr
10-24-03, 11:51 AM Well, if the monster has +80 natural armor...

Like I said, you aren't going to MISS.

I said nothing about actually causing it harm ;)

Generally, I use a creature's AC vs touch attacks to determine how easy it is to actually "hit". Something with low AC to touch but high armor or natural armor is easy to hit, but your failed attacks just bounce off the hide. Something with high AC to touch means your failed attacks literally miss or veer off.

For a medium sized creature, there is little functional difference between hitting a 70 foot tall monster and a 1000 foot tall monster: they are both the size of "the broad side of a barn", as the 3.5 PHB literally puts it ;) However, if you want your 1000 foot tall Ultraman to attack a 70 foot tall Tarrasque, size differential comes back into play.
Edymnion
10-24-03, 08:38 PM And don't forget all the movies where the monster is so flipping huge that the good guys can walk around inside it like germs. Colossal is only 70 feet tall, as previously mentioned. Thats only a 7 story building. There's been times I've been tempted to literally have a mountain range get up and move, which would dwarf any Colossal creature in the same way the Tarrasque dwarfs a fly.
Mordenkainen's Rubber Duck of DOOM
10-24-03, 08:46 PM Despiet the fact that Behemoth is a real monster, I've taken to calling it "Behemoth size".
Teron Gorefiend
10-25-03, 07:11 PM Originally posted by Edymnion
And don't forget all the movies where the monster is so flipping huge that the good guys can walk around inside it like germs. Colossal is only 70 feet tall, as previously mentioned. Thats only a 7 story building. There's been times I've been tempted to literally have a mountain range get up and move, which would dwarf any Colossal creature in the same way the Tarrasque dwarfs a fly.
That gives me an idea for a truly epic monster. One that has slumbered under a mountain range for... well, pretty much ever. When it wakes up for whatever reason, it turns out the mountains are actually its dorsal spines!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Davus Antonius 10-21-03, 07:45 PM	Is there any guide to creating monsters of these sizes? I know there's a lot of info on creating monsters up to Colossal, but I'd like to know if there's anything for larger sizes.
Wickerbull 10-21-03, 09:08 PM	Do you have the Epic Level Handbook? If you do, look in the monster section or wherever, I think they mention Colossal+ as a size catergory somewhere in there. I don't have the book, so I can't tell you for certain. Anyway, the other size catergories follow a pattern, and unfortunately, I can't tell you what it is, because I loaned my MM out to someone, and I can't find the chart I want anywhere else. I'd say, if you have access to the size chart that shows the AC bonuses and penalties, just take it up one more past Colossal, and increase everything according to the pattern. There you go.
sandskimmer 10-21-03, 09:10 PM	I don't think there's anything official, but check out this thread from the Epic forum: Titanic sized creatures (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105686)
MightyMightyThundarr 10-21-03, 09:58 PM	Colossal+ isn't really a size category, its just there to represent how epic dragons have better breath weapons and reach than dragons that are just "colossal". They are actually about the same physical size. For simplicity's sake, you can just continue to expand the size bonuses exponentially. The next step up from colossal would have a -16 to AC and attack rolls, next up from that has -32, etc. I would start the next step after colossal with creatures whose facing is 50 feet., then the next step after that at 70 or 80.
RhoxandRoll 10-22-03, 03:21 PM	In the munchkin Monster Manual they have the ludicrous size category...
ruleslawyer 10-22-03, 03:30 PM	Officially, the "Colossal" size category represents the minimum size for the category all the way to infinity. There is a semi-exception for epic dragons, as Thundarr mentioned (it only affects particular abilities), but otherwise, nothing. You could create a "Titanic" size category, as sandskimmer did, but I certainly wouldn't just extend the size category system indefinitely.
Davus Antonius 10-22-03, 08:20 PM	Thanks for the help! Hmm... this gives me some ideas :devil:
MightyMightyThundarr 10-22-03, 08:31 PM	And really, the only reason for making actual size categories larget than colossal is if you want to have a colossal creature fighting something that is much, much larger than itself. For medium sized creatures, the difference is relatively minimal: you aren't going to miss it if you shoot at it. It MAY come into play if you have a creature the size of a mountain trying to land a hit on a creature the size of, oh, a football field.
Edymnion 10-22-03, 08:44 PM	Actually, I have created a creature that is substantially larger than Colossal, more than enough to justify a new size catagory. My Stronghold Sentinal is an entire castle complex that gets up and attacks, and the biggest are approx 50% larger than a Stone Colossus. More than large enough for a new size catagory, just follow the patterns from the other size catagories to make it.
Sken Dingle 10-23-03, 11:17 AM	As mentioned above, Colossal applys to anything that's about 70 feet long/tall and above. The Titanic creatures in the MM2 are only gargantuan. Anyway a kaijued monster is still colassal, and if anyone knows their kaiju mythology that can get up to almost 1000 feet tall dpending on what era you follow. Usually they are around 150-200 feet tall. That is alot larger than most colassal creatures in D and D, but it is still considered colossal. Just look at the size chart in the Kaiju article in that Dragon.
edsonaoki 10-23-03, 05:22 PM	For medium sized creatures, the difference is relatively minimal: you aren't going to miss it if you shoot at it. Well, if the monster has +80 natural armor...
E-Arkham 10-23-03, 07:43 PM	"Ok, guys, today's Epic adventure will have you fighting a titantic creature... I see that you've all picked out miniatures for your PCs, so my eight-year old brother will be playing the to-scale role of Mega-Alpha Ruffazulla... Help him on the table, would you?" Kep
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 10-23-03, 08:49 PM	Originally posted by Sken Dingle As mentioned above, Colossal applys to anything that's about 70 feet long/tall and above. The Titanic creatures in the MM2 are only gargantuan. Anyway a kaijued monster is still colassal, and if anyone knows their kaiju mythology that can get up to almost 1000 feet tall dpending on what era you follow. Usually they are around 150-200 feet tall. That is alot larger than most colassal creatures in D and D, but it is still considered colossal. Just look at the size chart in the Kaiju article in that Dragon. No kaiju reaches 1000 feet in height. Mecha King Ghidorah manages to reach 492 feet, but nothing gets higher than that.
Sken Dingle 10-24-03, 10:27 AM	Originally posted by Raymond_Luxury_Yacht No kaiju reaches 1000 feet in height. Mecha King Ghidorah manages to reach 492 feet, but nothing gets higher than that. My mistake, my mistake. I was thinking 300+ meters, when it was 300+ feet. I know they always measure them in meters and metric tons and I got confused. Still, 496 feet is far greater than any DnD colassal beast, but would still be considered colassal by the book. Go figure. And no, man, nothing gets higher than King Ghidora. Will he take us with him. Groovy.
MightyMightyThundarr 10-24-03, 11:51 AM	Well, if the monster has +80 natural armor... Like I said, you aren't going to MISS. I said nothing about actually causing it harm ;) Generally, I use a creature's AC vs touch attacks to determine how easy it is to actually "hit". Something with low AC to touch but high armor or natural armor is easy to hit, but your failed attacks just bounce off the hide. Something with high AC to touch means your failed attacks literally miss or veer off. For a medium sized creature, there is little functional difference between hitting a 70 foot tall monster and a 1000 foot tall monster: they are both the size of "the broad side of a barn", as the 3.5 PHB literally puts it ;) However, if you want your 1000 foot tall Ultraman to attack a 70 foot tall Tarrasque, size differential comes back into play.
Edymnion 10-24-03, 08:38 PM	And don't forget all the movies where the monster is so flipping huge that the good guys can walk around inside it like germs. Colossal is only 70 feet tall, as previously mentioned. Thats only a 7 story building. There's been times I've been tempted to literally have a mountain range get up and move, which would dwarf any Colossal creature in the same way the Tarrasque dwarfs a fly.
Mordenkainen's Rubber Duck of DOOM 10-24-03, 08:46 PM	Despiet the fact that Behemoth is a real monster, I've taken to calling it "Behemoth size".
Teron Gorefiend 10-25-03, 07:11 PM	Originally posted by Edymnion And don't forget all the movies where the monster is so flipping huge that the good guys can walk around inside it like germs. Colossal is only 70 feet tall, as previously mentioned. Thats only a 7 story building. There's been times I've been tempted to literally have a mountain range get up and move, which would dwarf any Colossal creature in the same way the Tarrasque dwarfs a fly. That gives me an idea for a truly epic monster. One that has slumbered under a mountain range for... well, pretty much ever. When it wakes up for whatever reason, it turns out the mountains are actually its dorsal spines!