Creating new monsters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Creating new monsters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Felsley
08-05-04, 06:38 PM Hiya all,

I'm having a somewhat puzzling problem; I want to create a completely new monster from scratch, but lack a source with guidelines.

The DMG, MM, MM2, FF, SSs, MHB, CC, CC2 or other monstrous sourcebook doesn't appear to provide a kind of step-by-step guideline to creating a new monster, or more importantly, providing an adequate CR.

Any of you guys know any good source (or general guidelines) that might help me out a bit?

Mind you; I'm not looking for ways to alter existing monster-stats, or hijacking a similar monster's stats - I've got plenty of imagination to flesh out a new monster on my own. I was merely wondering if official guidelines were available.

Thanx,

-Peter
Not a monkey
08-05-04, 07:12 PM Why do you need guidelines? Just make whatever you want.

The only need for guidelines is to assign CR. That's after you created the creature, you look for things with similar abilities to try and balance the CR.
Felsley
08-05-04, 07:33 PM But that's exactly my point; I can make something up alright, but it DOES seem kinda lame to calculate a creature's CR merely by comparing it to already existing creatures!

When the almighty game-designers think up a new monster, how do they classify it as a CR20 instead of a CR5? By COMPARING it to already existing monsters?

On the other hand, there's plenty of guidelines concerning how to advance a creature; surely something similar must be available for creating a new monster?

And, if I just have to make stuff up, why are there detailed rules in the DMG concerning new races?

Thanx for your response BTW; the CR-thing is my best shot so far...

-Peter
m00
08-05-04, 07:58 PM The 3.5 MM has an entire chapter devoted to making new monsters. Unfortunately, I can't find that chapter in the SRD or else I'd link to it. If you don't have the 3.5 MM, you may be out of luck as far as official monster creation guidelines are concerned.
Felsley
08-05-04, 08:03 PM Sweet; that's just what I needed!

I guess I'll finally have to go throw some cash after 3.5 after all...
Ogre4Hire
08-05-04, 08:42 PM The most accurate way to test the CR of a new creature is to run a team of 4 taken from the NPC tables in the DMG. Get a Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, and Rogue with appropriate equipment for their level, and pit them against the creature in its natural setting. Once you've got a team that can beat it regularly without relying on lucky dice rolls or by expending most of their spells/magic items, put down their level as the CR.

The only downside to this method is that it takes a lot of time.
Tanuki, the Bewildered
08-05-04, 11:39 PM Originally posted by Ogre4Hire
The only downside to this method is that it takes a lot of time.

It takes less if you use it to refine the CR calculation, rather than determine it in the first place.

The AC, hit dice, and save DCs for its abilities that allow such, should all be within a certain range of the CR (which differs for each of them). Figure out a range of possible CRs using those factors, and put together parties of the appropriate CRs, to determine which part of the range it best fits in.

If you get wildly differing ranges based on the different factors, then you probably need to change one or more of them.

(I think this is the reason the book suggests deciding the target CR as the first step.)
Felsley
08-06-04, 12:16 PM I found an old article by Skip Williams from the October 2000 issue of Dragon called "How To Create A Monster". The guidelines found therein are pretty much the ones I've been looking for.

http://www.spelljammer.org/misc/files/How_to_Create_a_Monster.pdf

The article is found on the Spelljammer site.

-P
Black Jack Davey
08-06-04, 03:03 PM I think that is pretty much the same thing that is in the 3.5 MM. A while back some of the magazines came with a disk that had this article on it, among other things.
Drasche
08-07-04, 04:44 PM I've just about put everything together for this one particular creature I created, but I can't find any rules regarding natural armor. After looking at several entries in the MM I can't seem to find a common pattern between them. Is such a thing arbitrary? Or is there some set of guidelines hiding somewhere?
Tanuki, the Bewildered
08-07-04, 06:19 PM MM 3.5, page 298 has a chart of usual NA ranges for various types of hide.
Drasche
08-07-04, 11:04 PM Originally posted by Tanuki, the Bewildered
MM 3.5, page 298 has a chart of usual NA ranges for various types of hide.
Eh, I saw that, but I thought there was a table for specific types/subtypes. I could have sworn I had seen one before, but I suppose I'm just trippin'.
Black Jack Davey
08-08-04, 12:11 AM Is there another place to find some of these things? I just recently moved into a new house and most of my books are still lost in boxes in the garage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Felsley 08-05-04, 06:38 PM	Hiya all, I'm having a somewhat puzzling problem; I want to create a completely new monster from scratch, but lack a source with guidelines. The DMG, MM, MM2, FF, SSs, MHB, CC, CC2 or other monstrous sourcebook doesn't appear to provide a kind of step-by-step guideline to creating a new monster, or more importantly, providing an adequate CR. Any of you guys know any good source (or general guidelines) that might help me out a bit? Mind you; I'm not looking for ways to alter existing monster-stats, or hijacking a similar monster's stats - I've got plenty of imagination to flesh out a new monster on my own. I was merely wondering if official guidelines were available. Thanx, -Peter
Not a monkey 08-05-04, 07:12 PM	Why do you need guidelines? Just make whatever you want. The only need for guidelines is to assign CR. That's after you created the creature, you look for things with similar abilities to try and balance the CR.
Felsley 08-05-04, 07:33 PM	But that's exactly my point; I can make something up alright, but it DOES seem kinda lame to calculate a creature's CR merely by comparing it to already existing creatures! When the almighty game-designers think up a new monster, how do they classify it as a CR20 instead of a CR5? By COMPARING it to already existing monsters? On the other hand, there's plenty of guidelines concerning how to advance a creature; surely something similar must be available for creating a new monster? And, if I just have to make stuff up, why are there detailed rules in the DMG concerning new races? Thanx for your response BTW; the CR-thing is my best shot so far... -Peter
m00 08-05-04, 07:58 PM	The 3.5 MM has an entire chapter devoted to making new monsters. Unfortunately, I can't find that chapter in the SRD or else I'd link to it. If you don't have the 3.5 MM, you may be out of luck as far as official monster creation guidelines are concerned.
Felsley 08-05-04, 08:03 PM	Sweet; that's just what I needed! I guess I'll finally have to go throw some cash after 3.5 after all...
Ogre4Hire 08-05-04, 08:42 PM	The most accurate way to test the CR of a new creature is to run a team of 4 taken from the NPC tables in the DMG. Get a Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, and Rogue with appropriate equipment for their level, and pit them against the creature in its natural setting. Once you've got a team that can beat it regularly without relying on lucky dice rolls or by expending most of their spells/magic items, put down their level as the CR. The only downside to this method is that it takes a lot of time.
Tanuki, the Bewildered 08-05-04, 11:39 PM	Originally posted by Ogre4Hire The only downside to this method is that it takes a lot of time. It takes less if you use it to refine the CR calculation, rather than determine it in the first place. The AC, hit dice, and save DCs for its abilities that allow such, should all be within a certain range of the CR (which differs for each of them). Figure out a range of possible CRs using those factors, and put together parties of the appropriate CRs, to determine which part of the range it best fits in. If you get wildly differing ranges based on the different factors, then you probably need to change one or more of them. (I think this is the reason the book suggests deciding the target CR as the first step.)
Felsley 08-06-04, 12:16 PM	I found an old article by Skip Williams from the October 2000 issue of Dragon called "How To Create A Monster". The guidelines found therein are pretty much the ones I've been looking for. http://www.spelljammer.org/misc/files/How_to_Create_a_Monster.pdf The article is found on the Spelljammer site. -P
Black Jack Davey 08-06-04, 03:03 PM	I think that is pretty much the same thing that is in the 3.5 MM. A while back some of the magazines came with a disk that had this article on it, among other things.
Drasche 08-07-04, 04:44 PM	I've just about put everything together for this one particular creature I created, but I can't find any rules regarding natural armor. After looking at several entries in the MM I can't seem to find a common pattern between them. Is such a thing arbitrary? Or is there some set of guidelines hiding somewhere?
Tanuki, the Bewildered 08-07-04, 06:19 PM	MM 3.5, page 298 has a chart of usual NA ranges for various types of hide.
Drasche 08-07-04, 11:04 PM	Originally posted by Tanuki, the Bewildered MM 3.5, page 298 has a chart of usual NA ranges for various types of hide. Eh, I saw that, but I thought there was a table for specific types/subtypes. I could have sworn I had seen one before, but I suppose I'm just trippin'.
Black Jack Davey 08-08-04, 12:11 AM	Is there another place to find some of these things? I just recently moved into a new house and most of my books are still lost in boxes in the garage.