Creature Cognizance [Archive] - Wizards Community

Creature Cognizance [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Misanthrope
04-15-04, 09:04 PM My player's have been getting a bit perturbed with me. Most of the irritance actually stems from the new prestige classes for dragons in the Draconomicon.

Also, my DM has gotten vaguely irritated due to my fervor in obtaining a Legendary Bear Barbarian for my epic druids animal companion.

What I am wondering is how do you know when something is capable of taking character levels? Animals normally don't, however the awakened animals seem to be able to (judging by publications on the wizards site) and dragons which are normally advanced by HD through age are also capable of taking class levels? When their advancement says otherwise? For that matter, the epic level handbook eludes to a treant who has taken levels in the druid class whereas the typical advancement for treants is by increasing the size. So when do you allow something to take levels in a character class? Is it by virtue of sentience alone? Intelligence score? For that matter, does one merely have to be cognizant to begin taking class levels?
nick012000
04-15-04, 10:29 PM If a creature is sentient (Int > 2), then it can take class levels, I would say.

For the official rules for giving NPC monsters class levels, look at the SRD (here (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/ImprovingMonsters.rtf))
Contrast
04-15-04, 11:00 PM Keep in mind that an awakened animal cannot be a Famialiar, Animal companion, Special mount or similar concept.
was_fired
04-15-04, 11:55 PM Actually it could be a special mount, but you would need leadership and the special mount feature raises its ECL for the purpose of leadership. Of course this is still up to the DM since what you can have as a cohort is each DM's individual choice (besides the basic rules like int must be greater than 2).
Mithral Icesilver
04-16-04, 05:52 PM Awakened Animals CAN be companions or special mounts. I'm not sure about familiars though.
alexanderwales
04-16-04, 06:50 PM So then why don't we commonly see any dragons with character levels? I have a pet dragon that I've been raising for about three years now (from birth), and I was told by a friend that I couldn't take it on adventures with it to give it levels. Was he wrong? If so, how do I determine how much experience my dragon gets?
was_fired
04-16-04, 07:16 PM "So then why don't we commonly see any dragons with character levels? I have a pet dragon that I've been raising for about three years now (from birth), and I was told by a friend that I couldn't take it on adventures with it to give it levels. Was he wrong? If so, how do I determine how much experience my dragon gets?"

Yes, he is wrong it uses ECL.

"Awakened Animals CAN be companions or special mounts. I'm not sure about familiars though."

Only problem with that is an animal companion must be an animal. Awakening an animal makes it a magical beast. There is no clause for getting around this. Leadership gives a way to get around this for a paladins special mount, but druids and rangers are not as lucky.
Wickerbull
04-16-04, 09:07 PM Oh, man. I predict at least 2 pages of replies to this thread. I hope I'm wrong.

Anyway, I'd say do whatever you want, as long as you can balance it. If your character can be balanced, and can do the same basic things that other characters can, then the only limit is the campaign in which you play.

As far as companions go, it's the same thing, basically.
alexanderwales
04-16-04, 10:44 PM HHhmmmn. . .

So the pet dragon uses ECL, meaning LA + Monster HD, right?
Doesn't that mean that he's practically impossible to level up after becoming older? Besides, where can I find the LA for a dragon? I think I might try to procure one in this campaign I'm in now.

On another note, should the sentient animal companion be played as a second PC or as an NPC?
Misanthrope
04-17-04, 09:29 AM Well, the way I got my awakened animal to be my companion is with the epic feat Magical Beast Companion. The name's something to that extent.

But, are we sticking to the Int > 2 = Capable of taking levels? Or is there a more strict criterion that should be imposed?
Mithral Icesilver
04-17-04, 12:14 PM Originally posted by was_fired
"So then why don't we commonly see any dragons with character levels? I have a pet dragon that I've been raising for about three years now (from birth), and I was told by a friend that I couldn't take it on adventures with it to give it levels. Was he wrong? If so, how do I determine how much experience my dragon gets?"

Yes, he is wrong it uses ECL.

Actually, as long as the said dragon is not a familiar, it's perfectly capable of taking class levels

"Awakened Animals CAN be companions or special mounts. I'm not sure about familiars though."

Only problem with that is an animal companion must be an animal. Awakening an animal makes it a magical beast. There is no clause for getting around this. Leadership gives a way to get around this for a paladins special mount, but druids and rangers are not as lucky.
Yes, but these are Magical Beasts (Augumented Animal)s.
Wickerbull
04-17-04, 01:20 PM "So the pet dragon uses ECL, meaning LA + Monster HD, right?
Doesn't that mean that he's practically impossible to level up after becoming older? Besides, where can I find the LA for a dragon? I think I might try to procure one in this campaign I'm in now."

Look in Draconomicon. It has rules on how to do all that stuff on pages 141-144.

"But, are we sticking to the Int > 2 = Capable of taking levels? Or is there a more strict criterion that should be imposed?"

Generally, Int 3 or better is the biggest requirement. Savage Species is really the book for this topic.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Misanthrope 04-15-04, 09:04 PM	My player's have been getting a bit perturbed with me. Most of the irritance actually stems from the new prestige classes for dragons in the Draconomicon. Also, my DM has gotten vaguely irritated due to my fervor in obtaining a Legendary Bear Barbarian for my epic druids animal companion. What I am wondering is how do you know when something is capable of taking character levels? Animals normally don't, however the awakened animals seem to be able to (judging by publications on the wizards site) and dragons which are normally advanced by HD through age are also capable of taking class levels? When their advancement says otherwise? For that matter, the epic level handbook eludes to a treant who has taken levels in the druid class whereas the typical advancement for treants is by increasing the size. So when do you allow something to take levels in a character class? Is it by virtue of sentience alone? Intelligence score? For that matter, does one merely have to be cognizant to begin taking class levels?
nick012000 04-15-04, 10:29 PM	If a creature is sentient (Int > 2), then it can take class levels, I would say. For the official rules for giving NPC monsters class levels, look at the SRD (here (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/ImprovingMonsters.rtf))
Contrast 04-15-04, 11:00 PM	Keep in mind that an awakened animal cannot be a Famialiar, Animal companion, Special mount or similar concept.
was_fired 04-15-04, 11:55 PM	Actually it could be a special mount, but you would need leadership and the special mount feature raises its ECL for the purpose of leadership. Of course this is still up to the DM since what you can have as a cohort is each DM's individual choice (besides the basic rules like int must be greater than 2).
Mithral Icesilver 04-16-04, 05:52 PM	Awakened Animals CAN be companions or special mounts. I'm not sure about familiars though.
alexanderwales 04-16-04, 06:50 PM	So then why don't we commonly see any dragons with character levels? I have a pet dragon that I've been raising for about three years now (from birth), and I was told by a friend that I couldn't take it on adventures with it to give it levels. Was he wrong? If so, how do I determine how much experience my dragon gets?
was_fired 04-16-04, 07:16 PM	"So then why don't we commonly see any dragons with character levels? I have a pet dragon that I've been raising for about three years now (from birth), and I was told by a friend that I couldn't take it on adventures with it to give it levels. Was he wrong? If so, how do I determine how much experience my dragon gets?" Yes, he is wrong it uses ECL. "Awakened Animals CAN be companions or special mounts. I'm not sure about familiars though." Only problem with that is an animal companion must be an animal. Awakening an animal makes it a magical beast. There is no clause for getting around this. Leadership gives a way to get around this for a paladins special mount, but druids and rangers are not as lucky.
Wickerbull 04-16-04, 09:07 PM	Oh, man. I predict at least 2 pages of replies to this thread. I hope I'm wrong. Anyway, I'd say do whatever you want, as long as you can balance it. If your character can be balanced, and can do the same basic things that other characters can, then the only limit is the campaign in which you play. As far as companions go, it's the same thing, basically.
alexanderwales 04-16-04, 10:44 PM	HHhmmmn. . . So the pet dragon uses ECL, meaning LA + Monster HD, right? Doesn't that mean that he's practically impossible to level up after becoming older? Besides, where can I find the LA for a dragon? I think I might try to procure one in this campaign I'm in now. On another note, should the sentient animal companion be played as a second PC or as an NPC?
Misanthrope 04-17-04, 09:29 AM	Well, the way I got my awakened animal to be my companion is with the epic feat Magical Beast Companion. The name's something to that extent. But, are we sticking to the Int > 2 = Capable of taking levels? Or is there a more strict criterion that should be imposed?
Mithral Icesilver 04-17-04, 12:14 PM	Originally posted by was_fired "So then why don't we commonly see any dragons with character levels? I have a pet dragon that I've been raising for about three years now (from birth), and I was told by a friend that I couldn't take it on adventures with it to give it levels. Was he wrong? If so, how do I determine how much experience my dragon gets?" Yes, he is wrong it uses ECL. Actually, as long as the said dragon is not a familiar, it's perfectly capable of taking class levels "Awakened Animals CAN be companions or special mounts. I'm not sure about familiars though." Only problem with that is an animal companion must be an animal. Awakening an animal makes it a magical beast. There is no clause for getting around this. Leadership gives a way to get around this for a paladins special mount, but druids and rangers are not as lucky. Yes, but these are Magical Beasts (Augumented Animal)s.
Wickerbull 04-17-04, 01:20 PM	"So the pet dragon uses ECL, meaning LA + Monster HD, right? Doesn't that mean that he's practically impossible to level up after becoming older? Besides, where can I find the LA for a dragon? I think I might try to procure one in this campaign I'm in now." Look in Draconomicon. It has rules on how to do all that stuff on pages 141-144. "But, are we sticking to the Int > 2 = Capable of taking levels? Or is there a more strict criterion that should be imposed?" Generally, Int 3 or better is the biggest requirement. Savage Species is really the book for this topic.