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| Wotc_Mark05-10-05, 04:57 AM | Creature Competition: Head-to-Head VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE NOW! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050510a) In its thirty years (now getting on thirty-one!) of history, Dungeons & Dragons has introduced a vast collection of creatures to the game. Whether it's the iconic dragons, beholders, or mind flayers -- or some of the even more unusual templates -- everyone has their favorite. (Heck, even we here at Wizards of the Coast have ours.) So what happens when sixteen of these creatures go head-to-head? Plenty of carnage, obviously. Of course, in a pure fighting competition, you'd simply check each monster's Challenge Rating to decide which one would gain the upper hand. So instead, we've dragged sixteen creatures onstage for a friendlier competition -- to determine which one is our players' favorite creature (at least, favorite in this competition). In each pairing, which creature do you choose to move on? Every week on Tuesday, we'll present the next pairing, until it all boils down to your final winner -- who will star as an encounter in a future online adventure. Week 1 -- 5/10 thru 5/16 -- Tarrasque 59.6% vs Gelatinous Cube 40.4% Week 2 -- 5/17 thru 5/23 -- Lady Bestine 25.6% vs Marilith Dervish 74.4% Week 3 -- 5/24 thru 5/30 -- Ellith'rin 32.5% vs Warforged Ninja 67.5% Week 4 -- 5/31 thru 6/06 -- Jannys Shadowgaunt 63.6% vs Xxerlflyyn 36.4% For discussion of weeks 5 thru 8 please use this new thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=443004) Remember this is to determine which one is our players' favorite creatures advances not who would win based strictly on the numbers. I'll try and check in on this thread every tuesday with the past weeks weeks results. Feel free to talk up your favorite, who knows maybee you'll wind up being quoted on the bracket page. This poll is all about you... it's your chance to interact with the D&D website in a completely new way ... and by all means ... have fun :) MJ :cool: |
| Judicator Shekar05-10-05, 08:34 AM | I see I am the first poster to comment on this forseeably hot topic (*gloats*). Allright, I voted for the Geletinous Cube. My reasons are simple: 1) How many times does the tarrasque play a role in the campaign world (I italicize to indicate uniqueness)? While there do exist opportunities to incorporate it, even to base an entire campaign around it, the point is that other creatures are much more likely (and are more interesting) to base a campaign around. 2) The Geletinous Cube is a dungeon staple. It is a perfect creature to incorporate in nearly any dungeon (its shape can be murder to the players if you position it right) and has had its challenge rating appropriately calculated, so a party of adventurers of its level finds it to be decently challenging. 3) Finally, I love the Cube because it allows me to center an adventure around one thing, yet still include the cube. I explain: When the party is hunting for a Drow Assassin (or whatever) somewhere underground, I can always drop a cube in their path. This creature does not think (not to our knowledge, at least), and, therefore, will never interfere with the plot of the adventure. The same goes for dungeons, which are sometimes controlled by powerful creatures. If the back door to a Gauth's lair is inhabited by a Cube, the Gauth is probably glad to have it there. Not that it's going to compete with the Gauth for control, anyway. Thats just my opinion. |
| lucas_william05-10-05, 08:39 AM | I chose the Tarrasque for basically the same reason: How many times does it come into play in a campaign. Whatever creature wins, Wizards says they'll use it in an online adventure...and I'd sure like to see them have to figure out to stick that behemoth in there and have it make sense! I guess it would make it a pre-epic or epic adventure. |
| Grynn05-10-05, 09:47 AM | I voted for the gelatinous cube, because there's always room for gelatin[ous cube]. |
| gavalicks05-10-05, 10:06 AM | I voted GELATINOUS CUBE!!!! Lets face it is the best of the Two. You have the TARRASQUE may win in a fight stat wise, but does not have the versitiliy as a GELATINOUS CUBE. You can use them as traps, enemies, paladin suppresors (Place a live victim in one, paladin if you attack the cube you hurt the person which is an evil act), and they make a really mean soup. To fight the Tarrasque you will probably need seige weapons, some uber spell, and the grace of several dieties. |
| Aion Khonsu05-10-05, 10:06 AM | A vote for Badger is a vote for justice. vote Badger in '05. |
| vonKobra05-10-05, 10:16 AM | I based my vote on who would win in a real fight If the Tarrasque fought a gelationous cube heres the fight I see Tarrasque:Mmmmm jello ~munch swallow whole~ uh oh my throat its burning AHHHHH so painful ~cough cough~ whats this blood? in the end the tarrasque dies because of a hole in its throat made by the acid of the cube... what a pathetic way to die. Meanwhile the cube eventually escapes by continuing to digest bits of the Tarrasque. cube wins |
| Bocklin05-10-05, 10:18 AM | ...and I'd sure like to see them have to figure out to stick that behemoth in there and have it make sense! Well I already voted for the cube, but this argument would have made me vote otherwise! That sure would be fun to see how WotC includes her in an adventure... Bah, too late, my vote is cast! Bocklin |
| KoboldSlayer05-10-05, 10:31 AM | I voted for the Tarrasque for one reason. Further down the brackets is the terrifying, the awe-inspiring, the mystifying...MEEPO the KOBOLD! I'd like to see Meepo vs. the Tarrasque, and in order to see that, the Tarrasque has to advance. Meepo vs. the Tarrasque. Does that remind anyone of the old animated short "Godzilla vs. Bambi" ? |
| Maybelater05-10-05, 10:52 AM | Ok, yes the the gelatinous cube is easy to incorporate into campaigns, but that doesn't mean he's cooler than the Terrasque. In fact, it makes the cube kinda boring... Why do we want/need a mini adventure based on one if you can drop a cube most anywhere and it makes a reasonable combatant? I mean, c'mon, EVERYONE has faught a gelatinous cube somewhere. The Terrasque on the other hand is about as cool as it gets: A mythical monster of epic proportions that only awakens for a few days after sleeping for years! It's wounds heal with blinding speed, it is a to all who look upon it, and it all comes wrapped in a candied magic reflective shell. (OK, so maybe it's not made of candy) Not only that, but there was that cool cult of the Terrasque back in one of the dragon magazines that would make for some really interesting NPC's. In any case I think someone could even write a whole adventure book on tracking down the Terrasque and those that would try to awaken him. To sum it all up: the gelatinous cube has been done too much. Despite the Terrasque's incredible coolness, it has never been included in an adventure. Vote Terrasque! |
| siriusranger8705-10-05, 11:08 AM | Terrasque all the way the cube is over used,theres no need to create another encounter with them the terrasque is cool but is hardly ever implemented i would love to see an encounter with one Vote terrasque |
| Thuragrun05-10-05, 11:17 AM | Cube baby! I have never had the want or need to include the Terrasque in anything I have written or played. But I also find epic or near epic to be boring. The most fun is to be had at levels one through twelve. JMO. |
| Grynn05-10-05, 11:21 AM | Celestial Dire Badger says he stands up for justice. He says he'll fight for the common man. But Celestial Dire Badger has shown time after time that he has too short of a temper to be an effective leader. Do you really want a leader that flies off the handle every time he takes damage? Paid for by Mustelids for Truth |
| Mercurius05-10-05, 11:22 AM | I've gotta say, some of the monsters in this competition are just crazy. Swashbuckling Beholders with eye patches? What the heck is that about. On the other hand, I really like the Succubus Paladin. Reminds me of my LG Succubus Monk idea that I had a while ago, though her Vrock mount is pushing it a bit, IMHO. :looloo: At any rate, I voted Cube, because I'd like them to put together an adventure I could actually use. |
| Iron Klaw Merc05-10-05, 11:39 AM | Bring on the CUBE baby, always a fun creature. |
| Hufish05-10-05, 11:42 AM | *sticks a floppy pirate hat on the beholder, with holes for the eyestalks* ARRRRR! :D |
| Zubon05-10-05, 12:28 PM | We're all just marking time until the Badger/Kobold fight comes up, aren't we? Whoever wins that one is taking it all. |
| Dreaming_in_the_void05-10-05, 12:36 PM | As a DM, I must vote for the Gelatinous Cube... not only have I actually been able to use the cube in a game, there is a shame factor of several billion involved here. Who can't pull off a TPK with the Terrasque?! Killing your PCs with a Gelatinous Cube is not only a better test of true DM-evilness, but earns you bragging rights. Meepo's time will come! |
| Daijdjan05-10-05, 12:48 PM | The cube. The cube. I still remember the first time a player walking in on of these things in the dark, scouting ahead. First the surprise, then panic...and the others standing around, not knowing what to do. Ahh, the unforgettable cube. Did i laugh that day. Daijdjan |
| Digger the badger05-10-05, 12:53 PM | While there is no doubting that cubes can be fun, I agree with the sentiment expressed by others: Bring on the Tarrasque, and see WOTC incorporates it into a usable adventure. For the record, I do have a soft spot for Badgers, celestial or otherwise. |
| wingGodzilla05-10-05, 01:06 PM | I voted for Tarrasque. Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of the cube. But I always like the thought of a Huge overpower creature ripping through everything and all you can do is get out of it's way and hope it does not take an interest in you. If it does all you can do is run. I love that! Like what was said before reminds me of Godzilla. ROCK ON TARRASQUE!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Light Dragon05-10-05, 01:09 PM | Gelatinous Cube Obviously... is there a more bizarre staple of the game? I mean sure the Tarrasque is big and dangerous- but it adds nothing to flavour. Thousands of games can have Tarrasque-like monsters... only D&D can strike fear into the hearts of adventurers with a GIANT ROVING NEAR-INVISIBLE BLOB OF GELLY! ;) |
| greatfrito05-10-05, 01:11 PM | Ehhh..... I've never liked the Tarasque. Gelly Cubes though? Well, depending on the flavor, they can be pretty good. Now, imagine a dessert - a dessert of the gods! Where the Tarasque is suspended in a gigantic glass dish, surrounded by many, many, MANY gellatinous cubes - made with sparkling cider perhaps - giving the impression of the Tarasque, floating in the space between worlds. Oh, and if I ever meet Mr. Horrible Gelatinous Blob, I want him to know I voted for his (slightly stupid) cousin. |
| Light Dragon05-10-05, 01:12 PM | And just my comments on next week's matchup. I'm voting for the Marilith... Not only because it's a more 'interesting' less contrived character- but because- for gad's sake- "a half dragon-pixie" that's just idiotic. I mean, really. That's just stretching there. I hate bizarre 'half-races' and a half-dragon pixie is really going too far. As a secondary reason for hating the pixie- I just don't like playing with fey. They're small, annoying, and generally hard to DM a fight with the players with. I use them as distractions when I don't have anything better to do. |
| Malfius05-10-05, 01:13 PM | good paralell, but still, it's got to be the cube. All HAIL THE CUBE! But why does nearly everything else get a template or class levels? isn't the cube worthy of such improvements. Come on! give it some lycanthropy, or at least some mag wheels. Oh, that would be sweet, mag wheels on a were-cube. yeah. |
| Light Dragon05-10-05, 01:14 PM | We're all just marking time until the Badger/Kobold fight comes up, aren't we? Whoever wins that one is taking it all. M*E*E*P*O*! ;) |
| 42005-10-05, 01:14 PM | I see I am the first poster to comment on this forseeably hot topic (*gloats*). Actually I'm the first poster to comment on this topic here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=427251 Turns out I posted before this thread even existed! -420 |
| Light Dragon05-10-05, 01:17 PM | Come on! give it some lycanthropy, or at least some mag wheels lycanthropy... I might actually use that in a future adventure. Though I don't really see how it would be possible for a thing lacking blood or much vital fluids to become lycanthropic. Imagine this- a herd of cubes has to work together to combat evil vampiric invaders who are 'vamping' the others... as such, they devise a serum to turn themselves into lycanthropes with super-hairy powers... very odd... |
| Sprain Ogre05-10-05, 01:22 PM | Hmmmmmm................. this is a tough one. Many good points have been made on both sides of he equation for this, and while I think that the Tarrasque would be a sure win, there is something appealing about the Cube.... However, when we stake the cubes 1d6 acid damage a round against the Tarrasque's regen of 40, the damage from his bite, and the amount of acid (the Cube is not immune...) and crushing damage from being in the gullet every round, and that it just couldn't burn it's way out in time to save it from being digested, well, I guess he can give the Tarrasque a nasty bit of heart burn afterwords, but other then that, not a whole lot. But those really are just the numbers, and that isn't all that counts. For me it boils down to the Cube being little more then dungeon annoyance (unless you're 1st or 2nd level and even then), while the Tarrasque is THE beast of Legends. It being awake and pounding through your world is enough to change the face of things in MAJOR ways. This is the big one, the creature that only the bravest of the brave can take on, those who are on the verge of being epic's in thier own right. Sure, killing a group with the cube is a coup for the DM, but strait up taking down big daddy Tarrasque has got to be one of the highpoints for your PC. Take this guy down, and you're a :censored: legend. Take down a Cube, and you're pest control. The choice is clear: My Vote: Tarrasque. :w00t: PS: Yeah, Meepo all the bloody way! |
| Niaslos FireCrow05-10-05, 01:26 PM | Man, the Celestial Dire Badger just stand no chance against Meepo.... |
| Navar05-10-05, 01:46 PM | I vote for the gelatinous cube |
| Wrathamon05-10-05, 02:04 PM | Tarrasque nuff said |
| ieattrollsforbreakfast05-10-05, 02:13 PM | I voted gelatinous cube, simply because I prefer low/mid level games, and gelatinous cubes are just fun :) Vote Troll Frenzied Berzerker in '05 A vote for trolls is a vote for life! |
| Szat05-10-05, 02:22 PM | I am voting for the Tarrasque because of her stance on global rampaging. |
| Adimarchus05-10-05, 02:23 PM | I also voted for the Tarrasque, I've nothing against the cube but the Tarrasque is just an engine of carnage. A rolemodel for us all... :) |
| galat05-10-05, 02:31 PM | i voted for the gelatinous cube, for all the reasons that have been stated in this thread, as well as two more 1) the movie named 'cube' its not about gelatinous cubes, but it does say something for cubes in general 2) imagine this: a group of adventurers, going down a 10 foot wide hallway, they dont know it(because this stupid group has no rogue(or ninja)) but there is a 20 foot pit trap ahead(10x10 hole in floor). they fall in it, only to realize that after they fall 20 feet, they are standing ON TOP OF A GELATINOUS CUBE!! i mean, just think of what they would be thinking! |
| Cardinal Teplin05-10-05, 03:26 PM | Cube, no contest. |
| Insane Pixie05-10-05, 03:31 PM | i voted for the gelatinous cube, for all the reasons that have been stated in this thread, as well as two more 1) the movie named 'cube' its not about gelatinous cubes, but it does say something for cubes in general 2) imagine this: a group of adventurers, going down a 10 foot wide hallway, they dont know it(because this stupid group has no rogue(or ninja)) but there is a 20 foot pit trap ahead(10x10 hole in floor). they fall in it, only to realize that after they fall 20 feet, they are standing ON TOP OF A GELATINOUS CUBE!! i mean, just think of what they would be thinking! "Hey! He's bouncy!" :bounce: |
| Shivago Saru05-10-05, 03:32 PM | I voted cube as many others before me. Not only do I have fun with this beast as a DM, it reminds me of some of my favorite gaming moments, like saving the stupid fighter that jumped into the "slimy jiggling wall". The player was not stupid, just acting in character (something that we strongly encourage). It was up to all the weaklings to save the guy stuck in the middle of the "slimy jiggling wall," it was a hoot. In character actions have gotten our group into a lot of predicaments but that's what makes the game fun, as well as the bonus xp roll in. |
| akiir05-10-05, 03:41 PM | Tarrasque all the way baby :D |
| Pay2Flay05-10-05, 04:08 PM | My vote went to the Cube because it is, in a word, perfection. The tarrasque is some half-assed adaption of French folklore, but the Cube... it is pure D&D. A creature specifically designed to aswer the question, "If all these monsters are living in this dungeon, where's their poop?" This was not a monster taken and bastardized from some cultures legends, this is a monster born of necessity. A direct result of dungeon ecology. That and it's a cube for chrissakes... |
| SoulLord05-10-05, 04:35 PM | Cube for this matchup, i don't intend to put my players against a tarrasque but they could well face the cube. so tarrasque cube 2|cube bestine dervish 2|dervish 3|dervish elithirin ninja 2|ninja Shadowgaunt xxerflyyn 2|Shadowgaunt 3|Ninja 4|Ninja Troll 2|Troll 3|Troll Belkar Unicorn 2|Unicorn Paladin Succubus 2|Succubus 3|Succubus 4|Succubus W|Succubus Mind flayer Badger Kobold 2|Kobold |
| Sect05-10-05, 04:39 PM | On one hand, we have the Tarrasque, which apparantly is based off of a French beastie that was slain by a biblical figure (I think one of the fifty billion Marys) On the other, we have Gelatinous Cube, which is an acidic cube of Jello. At first, I leaned towards the Cube, due to the fact that, as part of the Jello subrace, it is under the protection of Bill COsby, Greater God of Gelatin and Family Sitcoms, whileas the Tarrasque is French, and therefore useless. Then I remembered how big the damn thing is, and what happens if you make it ticked off. |
| lugnut7105-10-05, 04:48 PM | Yeah gonna have to go with the cube. Nothing beats Jello. Bill Cosby told me that. |
| 42005-10-05, 04:59 PM | Hmm, for some reason my thread discussing the "Creature Competition" was closed even though it was posted a couple hours before the "official" thread. I sense a bit a jelousy. Sorry, I didn't mean to take attention away from the official thead (which didn't exist at the time). Anyway, someone metioned in my thread that they were tired of the Tarrasqe because it's the "most powerful creature in the Monster Manual". It may be the most overused "ueber creature" but there are plenty of creatures in the original MM (3E) that are more powerful. The "titan" has a CR of 21 for instance, where the Tarrasque is only 20. Not to mention the fact that creature templates add to existing creature's CR making them potentially more challenging than a tarrasque. A vampiric or lich titan is probably the most powerful creature in the MM. For many people power (or CR) equals popularity, but while I wouldn't use the tarrasque simply because it is overused it is still my favorite creature since I first saw it in the original AD&D MM. -420 |
| tiercel05-10-05, 05:09 PM | Then I remembered how big the damn thing is, and what happens if you make it ticked off.Yeah, you, I don't know, have to fly up into the air and watch it roar ineffectually. The tarrasque is a silly monster if your party level is anything like its CR -- in the sense that, as statted, there's probably not much it can do to you. It can't fly and has no ranged attacks or magic. If you have any lead time, you can just fly around it peppering it with ranged attacks and spells, not to mention the five million cheese combos that have been posted in a few thousand threads about tarrasque-slaying. It can be effective as a time-pressured "do something before it levels Greyhawk" sort of encounter, except you'd have to use a less developed city than Greyhawk (realistically, the Circle of Eight should own this beastie). Of course, I have my own personal theory (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5880891&postcount=47) as to what's really going on with the tarrasque.... The cube is much scarier for its CR, and is always found in terrain (i.e. dungeons) that favor it. |
| Santrilla05-10-05, 05:10 PM | Hah. BLATANTLY the Cube. No contest. |
| Thespian05-10-05, 05:10 PM | I love the cube. I love the look on the faces of my players when one of them falls into a pit trap that is 60' deep, and covered by a darkness spell. It literally swallows them up. They can't cast spells due to a lack of LOS. It is a sick pit trap, and one that is guarenteed to be memorable. CUBE TO THE FINAL FOUR!!! |
| anton106605-10-05, 05:32 PM | Tarrasque, the environmentally freindly monster of death. |
| Manyfist05-10-05, 05:33 PM | Tarrasque! I mean for a Random Adventer just for the fun of it why not just go against the all mighty Tarrasque? The Cube is just too Weak for the Tarrasque to be bothered with, DR/Epic, you can't kill it with out Sub. dmg then it just goes back in hybernation for so many years... |
| nekrolog05-10-05, 05:36 PM | Competition's already over... Meepo will certainly win the title fight. Ain't nobody don't like Meepo. I'm pretty sure he already has a cereal in the works with little Meepo marshmallows in it. |
| DM Ront05-10-05, 05:53 PM | I vote for Mr. Cube... The temple of MC cubed? It's still more fun to DM cubes. Send in the Tarrasque and the players pull out their cheese combos, but a cube really invokes fear in people. My positions on the competition: week 1: Gelationous Cube week 2: Maralith Dervish week 3: Warforged Ninja (no :censored: contest, but perhaps it will finally settle that entire FR fans vs. Eberron fans thing.) week 4: Beholder Swashbuckler week 5: Troll (if only we could avoid the metagaing thing) week 6: Unicorn week 7: Mind Flayer (must vote... horror from beyond the abyss... :coolcthul week 8: Badger! |
| DwarvinJedi05-10-05, 06:25 PM | I voted for the cube, becuase I have never really liked the Tarrasque, it is embarrissingly pathetic, and too non-magical, I prefer big leveled dragons for epic level big baddies. |
| rascaldebosk05-10-05, 06:26 PM | Terrasque, In the monster manual it says it cannot die. the cube ends up indigestion, which only makes the terrasque MORE angry. Perhaps thats why he finally shows up, and the answer is Tums. |
| OamuTheMonk05-10-05, 06:42 PM | Thanks for nothin' Maybelater. Oh, and I all-encompassingly vote cube. No contest. Tell Mr. French Gamera to go back to sleep for another hundred years. |
| Insantorii05-10-05, 06:49 PM | GO BIG T, GO BIG T, GO BIG T How about a half-fiend, insectile, half-dragon, incorpereal BIG T, that sounds like fun... |
| DungeonMaster05-10-05, 07:29 PM | Why is it the only classic monsters are in the first tier and pited against each other no less? What the heck is up with the swashbuckler beholder? Or a warforged ninja? Or a paladin succubus ?! We need more actual contenders, a plain beholder, a red dragon or an illithid! Down with the templated/multiclassed/Prestige-classed! Vote classic monsters to the top! |
| Celestial Dire Badger05-10-05, 07:31 PM | Competition's already over... Meepo will certainly win the title fight. Ain't nobody don't like Meepo. I'm pretty sure he already has a cereal in the works with little Meepo marshmallows in it.Is Meepo Celestial? ... NO Is Meepo Dire? ... NO Is Meepo a Badger? ... NO Did Meepo catch you a delicious bass? ... NO Does Meepo have his own music video (http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/)? ... NO Don't count me out yet... CDB http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/monster_poll_cdb.jpg |
| feartheinvinceblehamster05-10-05, 08:08 PM | I do declare that the gelatinous cube is cooler...the tarrasque just loses it's cool once you kill it in 5 rounds with one level 24 scout/barbarian/beastmaster |
| Vengeblade05-10-05, 08:13 PM | Yeah the cube is easier to implement, but that's why we don't need another adventure about it. The Tarrasque is all about fear in pc's hearts, without even using him, I've never seen him run in my life of D&D, and now, when I dm, I have new players(mainly powergamers) who haven't even heard of him. I new about the big T before I started playing. We need to teach some of newest players respect for something that's been around long enough to demand it, and if he doesn't get it, he'll just eat you, 'nuff said, you're dead. Plus, on official adventure with the Tarrasque mad eby WotC would be nice, and hey maybe if we praise it enough, they'll finally get us a mini to use for it. |
| Gelatinous Cube05-10-05, 08:40 PM | I have been feasting on the folks in Wotc Marketing for the past month or so and decided to go see how Sales tasted when I overheard people talking about some sort of voting competition between me and the tarrasque. That meanie who would vote for him... He has no personality and bad breath... I on the other hand am soft and jiggly and have minty breath ... and as they say "everyone has room for Gello"... Now Go Vote For Me! http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/monster_poll_cube.jpg P.S. If you don't vote for me I'll melt your face off. |
| Battousai^^x05-10-05, 08:56 PM | Go cube! xD Swashbuckler beholder > all *pirate hat* ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR |
| Vastion05-10-05, 09:13 PM | I'm going to have to say the Cube wins this one. I checked out the ability scores and I think the Cube is smarter than the Tarrasque. Oh sure the Tarrasque has a 3 Int and the Cube has a zero. However, I believe that zero means that the cube has reached a zen like state of intelligence thus giving it the superior edge. I still haven't worked out all the details, but I think it goes like this: After days of slaughtering peasents, adventurers, sheep, lawn gnomes, etc. the Tarrasque has nothing left to keel until...a lone figure (cube) slithers out from his hidey hole. The Tarrasque's carnage has left quite the carrion stench and has drawn the mighty Gelatinous Cube forth to feast on the remains. The movement catches the eye of the Tarrasque and it roars and charges toward the little cube. In it's zen like state the cube pays no attention and fully engulfs one of the Tarrasques droppings. It becomes one with the droppings and one with itself. The Tarrasque charges on to crush the thing that's eating the things that the Tarrasque just ate, but may want to eat again...uhh, after it eats it. The Tarrasque raises one mighty foot to stomp out the cube once and for all, but fails to notice it's other foot is resting in a bit of cube slime. *slip* BOOM! The Tarrasque falls and 'slips a disc' which reduces him to zero hps! The earth shaking fall also causes the Tarrasque to cough up an only 'slightly' digested wizard who with his last breath Wishes the Tarrasque a final death. The Gelatinous Cube finishes up his meal and slowly oozes over the Tarrasque's big toe. The cube becomes one with the toe and one with itself. Like I said, I still haven't worked out the details... Kill em' all, let Meepo sort em' out. |
| gloomhound05-10-05, 09:14 PM | Tarrasque What I would like to see is a fair and balanced adventure that involves the tarrasque that is playable and gives the party a fair chance of winning for 1st level PC's..... |
| gloomhound05-10-05, 09:24 PM | Yeah the cube is easier to implement, but that's why we don't need another adventure about it. The Tarrasque is all about fear in pc's hearts, without even using him, I've never seen him run in my life of D&D, and now, when I dm, I have new players(mainly powergamers) who haven't even heard of him. I new about the big T before I started playing. We need to teach some of newest players respect for something that's been around long enough to demand it, and if he doesn't get it, he'll just eat you, 'nuff said, you're dead. Plus, on official adventure with the Tarrasque mad eby WotC would be nice, and hey maybe if we praise it enough, they'll finally get us a mini to use for it. Tarrasque mini! My gawd what a great idea!!! |
| Frostwind05-10-05, 09:30 PM | Cube Forever. The Tarrasque doesn't stand even a chance. Its only real challenge will be in final against Meepo, the Mighty Kobold. Frostwind |
| darkwzrd12305-10-05, 10:22 PM | I Think someone already mentioned this but... wouldn't it be awesome to have an adventure based on The tarresque awakening and going on a rampage, the books say it will only stay awake for a short time... its not going back to sleep! Then the characters have to hunt down who or whatever is keeping it awake (a demon lord perhaps?) and kill it, then deal with the tarresque... only problem is that each day that passes the world is changed for good... Think of the Forgotten Realms... no imagine Waterdeep... GONE!!! destroyed by the tarresque... DUN DUN DUUUUN!!!!!! I vote for the Tarresque! MEEPO ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Yak of Darkness05-10-05, 10:26 PM | The cube. There really is no contest. That said, it really doesn't matter, as Meepo's going to mop everyone else up. Competition's already over... Meepo will certainly win the title fight. Ain't nobody don't like Meepo. I'm pretty sure he already has a cereal in the works with little Meepo marshmallows in it.Dear lord, that would be wonderful. ^_^ (And does anyone else think that it'd be great if WotC managed to make an adventure that involved (effectively, mind you) all of these monsters? Now that would be something.) |
| 7days05-10-05, 10:58 PM | Come on! give it some lycanthropy, or at least some mag wheels. Oh, that would be sweet, mag wheels on a were-cube. yeah. :rofl: That's got to be one of the funniest things ever! But seriously, The Cube wins. Think about it this way, who would you rather have over at your party? The Tarrasque? He'd just end up knocking over furniture, trashing the place, and trying to eat people. But The Cube, pour some hard adult beverage in it, then everyone can have gelatine cube shooters all night. And if you got it close to the speakers, turned up the bass and cranked the music up loud enough I bet you could even get it to jiggle. :dancin: |
| fonkin05-10-05, 11:10 PM | All things being equal, the Cube wins. 1. The cube has lineage. 2. The tarrasque is either a campaign-ender, or cannonfodder for high level munchkin players. It has no other place. A 'cube, however, when properly scaled to the level of the game (Advancement, suckas!!!), is always a problem, even though its abilities don't change much. 3. In regards to aforementioned munchkins; every epic-level munchkin will have long since charted out the scenarios that would lead them to a 1 round kill against the tarrasque. But what self-respecting 20+ level character would waste time considering the obstacle faced by a titanic gelatinous cube with 48d8+384 hp! Inert to all the cheesy badness at their command! Oh, chortle! It is to laugh! 4. The tarrasque is passe. But don't tell him I said that. 5. Sure, head to head, the tarrasque can take all comers, but what fun is that? With the Cube, there's always the tantalizing possibility that the 'rasque will roll a 1 on it's Fortitude save and succumb to an ignominious and permanent death being slowly digested by a mindless amebic blob. Points for style? Infinite.. 4. The cube has AC 3! If scaled up to Gargantuan size, it's AC becomes 1!!! Tell me that's not cool! |
| druid_woods05-10-05, 11:12 PM | i would have to say the Tarrasque. i think it would be fun to try and take one of those things down. Back in the AD&D time one of my friends and i fought a Tarrasque again a dragon the Tarrasque tore the dragon up bad. Plus i think it is one if the least used monster used in D&D now. but i could be wrong |
| Dunther the Great05-10-05, 11:39 PM | I voted for the Tarrasque this time, but I think I will vote for meepo in the end, though that swashbuckler beholder is aclose second, if only to see how they would do that in an adventure (btw, notice his name, Xxerlflyyn? remove the x's, look familiar :) ?) |
| Luni05-10-05, 11:52 PM | Gelatinous Cube over the Tarrasque. Though, I can't believe they have half-dragon pixies, and Succubus Paladins (with a vrock no less). Go Cube. Go Cube Go. |
| |)ar|{05-10-05, 11:53 PM | Vote for Cube! The way I see it this is a battle of the lame and the soon we get done with this one and on to the later matches the happier I'll be. Seriously, whats more lame then a chunk of jelly. Ohh wait its the cheesiest monster in the game. The Tarrasque is the kind of monster my 5 year old brother would make. Umm lets see he'll have like a millions str and like 50 AC ohh and a whole lot of hps. Then when I still managed to kill the thing he'd be like... wait, wait, you can't kill it unless you can wish it dead... ya thats it. Please... there are way to many good epic monsters to care about an animal wizards decided to give a 200 pt buy. Now if they wanted a big fatty they should have done a 3.0 Solar. Vote Cube so we can move on to the good stuff. Although it would almost be worth seeing the Tarrasque win just to see him go down to a beholder pirate... ohh ya |
| Ront Iron-Roar05-11-05, 12:06 AM | Oiy, hard decision for me. I mean yes, stat wise a tarrasque would be able to kill the cube quite easily. But, I can't but just root for Bill Cosby's greatest creation. I mean the Gelatinous Cube is like Fat Albert ...plus 1! Week 2: I'm looking forward to seeing the Marilith Dervish cutting the fey to pieces. Week 3: I'm not sure who's going to win this one. I mean the naga's breathweapon as a half-dragon not to mention its so-called druidic abilities? Then there's the sudden strikes and then all the evasion of the warforged ninja if not his resistence to certain damage. Week 4: I'm looking to see the Iron Golem win. Screw the beholder and its eye rays. The golem would never tire and continue to fight until completely destroyed. The beholder could only hope to fly up and out of the way and hope the golem fails a save. Week 5: TROLL FRENZIED BERSERKER? You dare question that? My god is there no greater race to apply that prestige class too? Subdual damage does crap, so no damage from frenzy. Regeneration heals them and keeps them going if not makes more copies of itself if it gets hacked to pieces(If this troll is like trolls in Forgotten Realms)not to mention deathless frenzy. As well it would be a barbarian to get Frenzied berserker and even then it still has greater pluses to fortitude not to mention the indomitable will plus adding rage and frenzy together? Sure perhaps its lower AC during rage would be a down fall later but against and incorporeal foe it doesn't really matter anyways.The belkers monster and class abilities would be not much of a problem if the troll makes all the saves with such a high fortitude and will/ I say just as long as the troll has a magical weapon it pretty much has this fight hands down. Week 6: Stone Giant Paladin, would beat the crap out of the unicorn with its savage strength and then make it it's new mount. Week 7: Another fight I'm unsure of. But, being that the succubus would have a good amount of saves if not better fortitude and will as a paladin. Mind Blast wouldn't be much of a problem. Not to mention the succubus has a better strength score( I think). Plus, you can't hit a lady despite the fact she may be a demon or your a mind flayer with no real concept for chivarly! Week 8: Kobolds are great, then again Badger's are awesome too. But, just for the underdog purpose and the fact I want to see the yappy-little lizard win it all and go against the tarrasque with his pointy stick. GO MEEPO! :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: |
| Ront Iron-Roar05-11-05, 12:07 AM | Oiy, hard decision for me. I mean yes, stat wise a tarrasque would be able to kill the cube quite easily. But, I can't but just root for Bill Cosby's greatest creation. I mean the Gelatinous Cube is like Fat Albert ...plus 1! Week 2: I'm looking forward to seeing the Marilith Dervish cutting the fey to pieces. Week 3: I'm not sure who's going to win this one. I mean the naga's breathweapon as a half-dragon not to mention its so-called druidic abilities? Then there's the sudden strikes and then all the evasion of the warforged ninja if not his resistence to certain damage. Week 4: I'm looking to see the Iron Golem win. Screw the beholder and its eye rays. The golem would never tire and continue to fight until completely destroyed. The beholder could only hope to fly up and out of the way and hope the golem fails a save. Week 5: TROLL FRENZIED BERSERKER? You dare question that? My god is there no greater race to apply that prestige class too? Subdual damage does crap, so no damage from frenzy. Regeneration heals them and keeps them going if not makes more copies of itself if it gets hacked to pieces(If this troll is like trolls in Forgotten Realms)not to mention deathless frenzy. As well it would be a barbarian to get Frenzied berserker and even then it still has greater pluses to fortitude not to mention the indomitable will plus adding rage and frenzy together? Sure perhaps its lower AC during rage would be a down fall later but against and incorporeal foe it doesn't really matter anyways.The belkers monster and class abilities would be not much of a problem if the troll makes all the saves with such a high fortitude and will/ I say just as long as the troll has a magical weapon it pretty much has this fight hands down. Week 6: Stone Giant Paladin, would beat the crap out of the unicorn with its savage strength and then make it it's new mount. Week 7: Another fight I'm unsure of. But, being that the succubus would have a good amount of saves if not better fortitude and will as a paladin. Mind Blast wouldn't be much of a problem. Not to mention the succubus has a better strength score( I think). Plus, you can't hit a lady despite the fact she may be a demon or your a mind flayer with no real concept for chivarly! Week 8: Kobolds are great, then again Badger's are awesome too. But, just for the underdog purpose and the fact I want to see the yappy-little lizard win it all and go against the tarrasque with his pointy stick. GO MEEPO! :dancin: |
| Ront Iron-Roar05-11-05, 12:12 AM | Well, this is odd. It seems my comp has had a brain fart despite all its computer techonological greatness omnisentient intelligence. Sorry, for the repeat of my post. Either that or I just made a fool of myself and my eyes had decieved me with a DC 15 Will save. |
| RetroFitted05-11-05, 12:19 AM | I vote the Tarrasque, just because I happen to like creatures of mass destruction. |
| Half-Fiend Monkey05-11-05, 12:30 AM | I am voting for the cube, basicly because it is a lot more origanal then the other thing that is not a cube. |
| ShiverTheBard05-11-05, 12:36 AM | Teh cube! Teh cube! Teh cube is on fire! |
| Half-Fiend Monkey05-11-05, 12:36 AM | Back in the AD&D time one of my friends and i fought a Tarrasque again a dragon the Tarrasque tore the dragon up bad. This dosen't make any sense :confused: . Do you mean "fought a Tarrasque against a dragon"? |
| Zaphod Zarniwoop05-11-05, 03:06 AM | By the seven mounting heavens of celestia, how can anyone ever even think of using a dessert as a monster? Me and my players all hate the very idea of a gelatinous cube. I mean, come on, animated jello? What's next, Horrible Killer Loafs of Bread? Vampiric Cucumbers? Seriously. The day I use a gelatinous cube in my game is the day the Elemental Plane of Fire freezes over. (In my campaign, that equates to never. I know there have to be smart:censored: out there who'd make arguments...) The Terrasque is, at least, an actual monster. And those of you who say he's a pansy little chicken, I hope you all get to play in a campaign where the DM uses his head. Cause if he hands out normal amounts of treasure and sets up the situation, then unleashes the Terrasque at the right time... You WILL be dead. Jello. Just to show you how much we hate the consept; some of my players were in another group first. The DM used a gelatinous cube, described it as they saw it, lurking in some dungeon. DM; "What do you do?" Players; "We grab our spoons and wait." No fight enseud. The cube is just to rediculous for words. |
| doctorhook05-11-05, 04:55 AM | Tarrasque? No way, that Godzilla-wannabe is too clichéd for my game. I vote Gelatinous Cube! The thought of a hostile Jello Jiggler is creepier anyway. |
| Slagger the Chuul05-11-05, 05:17 AM | Something of even remote French origins winning a battle? I don't think so. Besides, I like gelatinous cubes. :P |
| Chaotica Maxima05-11-05, 05:29 AM | Cube is da winnar! I say the semi-finals shall be with the: Warforged Ninja Cube Succubus Paladin Meepo And ofcourse, our Warforged friend will win! XD |
| Vharuck05-11-05, 05:41 AM | Am I the only one who wants to see the psion mind flayer go up? I mean, mind flayers just rock! A dark society of elitists who rely on working together to overhaul and dominate! |
| Eilistraeeeee05-11-05, 05:43 AM | not even warforged ninja's can beat Meepo.. I once played a sun elf ftr-wiz who stopped his adventure and went back to town just to save a kobold orphan who was left alone in a dungeon. It was heartbreaking, we still have good memories about that one. Meepo will surely have my vote. But for now, the Tarrasque will have my vote, I've met nearly a million cube's as opposed to 1 Tarrasque. I'd like to see him again :shocked: <--- though this will happen to my pc if he does see it.. |
| Jerivar05-11-05, 05:56 AM | Jelly wins, hands down. You kill it, earn xp and gp, then eat it. Delicious. |
| Monsoon2805-11-05, 06:57 AM | Tarrasque all the way! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: Another adventure with a Gcube...yawn! :noway: :bored: :pbbbtt: I love to see what WotC will have to come up with to fit that big boy in! :plotting: :lightbulb :evillaugh :gah: :help: :ghosted: |
| Mr.Waesel05-11-05, 07:20 AM | "I'm CR 20 yet I don't have any ranged attacks and can't fly. I am a tribute to the designer's ability to adequately CR artefacts from previous editions!" voted cube, obviously |
| Count Dooku05-11-05, 07:31 AM | Ya gotta remember that the winner of the contest gets to be in a D&D adventure. If you want an adventure w a G-Cube in it...just pull out you Dungeon Magazines and old D&D moduals. Im sure you'll find over a dozen adventures already. Now the Tarrasqe on the other hand appeared in only one adventure I can think of....The Apokolypse Stone...and that adventure stunk. Im sure theres a writer can do much better and finally give this awsome monster a role in an adventure worthy of his might. VOTE TARRASQUE!!! |
| newatreides05-11-05, 08:17 AM | Why does it seem like all the arguments being made for the cube sound like arguments for the Tarrasque? So many people saying that the cube is a D&D classic monster, that's why I voted for the Tarrasque. My first adventure ever contained a gelatinous cube. My second adventure contained a gelatinous cube. By the time I'd been playing for a year, I'd seen more gelatinous cubes than I have PC's. The gelatinous cube is a washed-up, overused, has-been. It is nearly impossible to kill the Tarrasque. How many PC's do you know that grew up dreaming of defeating a gelatinous cube? Gelatinous cubes aren't even sentient. They're walking blobs of :censored: . I don't think the cube could beat a dire flea, let alone a PC. Tarrasque: :gah: Cube: :bored: Get it now? I think it's time for jello to get it's just desserts! |
| GODOtheGREAT05-11-05, 08:32 AM | Tarrasque or Cube it doesn't really matter because all will fall to MEEPO!!!! :D |
| feartheinvinceblehamster05-11-05, 08:40 AM | I know, i killed the tarrasque by flying above it and smacking it with explosive arrows... avg of 154 dmg. around, tarrasqy didn't make it. |
| feartheinvinceblehamster05-11-05, 08:42 AM | whose erflynn and meepo and them? |
| Yue Ryong05-11-05, 09:23 AM | Er... excuse me... correct me if I'm wrong, but does GC have access to wish? Without it, this becomes something of a foregone conclusion, isn't it? |
| Santrilla05-11-05, 09:31 AM | Eventually, I see this as being a battle between the Dire Badger and the Gelatinous Cube. If only for the hilarity of such a battle, the Cube should get it. |
| Makari_Verslund05-11-05, 10:23 AM | The Gelatinous Cube is a much cooler monster than the Tarrasque which I don't care enough about to even look up the proper spelling. I mean really, which is scarier? A giant animal looking thing? Or a pile of goop that moves under its own free will, that just paralyzed your friend and you can see his face melting off as it closes in on you...no contest! |
| Nuntius12805-11-05, 10:38 AM | Well, looking at the roster, who honestly expects the Gelatinous Cube or the Tarrasque to make it all the way against creatures like the Troll, the Succubus, or Meepo? Granted, I'd love to see the Tarrasque in an adventure. A giant animal looking thing? Or a pile of goop that moves under its own free will, that just paralyzed your friend and you can see his face melting off as it closes in on you...no contest! Well when you put it like that, you're clearly robbing the Tarrasque of adjectives. :D |
| J@MES HETFIELD05-11-05, 10:44 AM | LOOK PEOPLE I VOTED FOR TARRASQUE CAUSE I BELIEVE THAT IN D&D SIZE MATTERS................................. ........................................ ............ :D (OR DOESNT????????????????? :confused: ) OH AND TO BRAKE THE ICE A CLASSICAL D&D JOKE(FOR THOSE WHO KNOW DONT POST THE ANSWER) : WHAT WHATS THE RESULT OF HITTING A HALFLING WITH THORS HAMMER???? THE ANSWER WILL WAIT UNTIL I SEE SOME NEW POSTS (IF U SEND A PERSONAL POST WITH THE ANSWER U GET A LOLIPOP :D :D :D ) |
| Mort_Q05-11-05, 10:55 AM | CUBE!! (http://angryflower.com/everyb.gif) |
| carioca05-11-05, 10:55 AM | the idea of waterdeep destroyed by the tarrasque sounds fun for sure... but not as fun as a gargantuan cube engulfing houses and peasants alike :D go cube! :bow: |
| Wayward Son05-11-05, 10:56 AM | I'm torn on this contest. There are quite a few who could work out to be great characters in a new adventure, and that's what I like the most. Here's how I see it thus far: Week one: Voted Gelatinous Cube. These are both ultility creatures, in their own way. The cube explains why the loot and bodies left behind are now gone, and the Tarrasque plays the roll of "unstoppable killing machine" adequately. I voted for the cube because, of the two, I think it's the more fun to encounter with anything less than an epic party, but neither creature has a lot of personality. Week two: Undecided. I like the fey/gold dragon mix, making for a defender of the weak that uses trickery and guile (always fun to roleplay), but the six-armed dervish has some appeal. With a good background and character story, either could be a blast to RP. I'll have to think on it. Week three: Leaning toward the naga simply because I'm not that familiar with the warforged yet. (No, I didn't dive into Eberron head-first. I tend to work with custom worlds . . . similar to Slartibardfast. :) ) Trouble is, I don't use a lot of psionics in my games, either. Again, both could be fun characters, but I may pass on both. Week four: The beholder will be memorable, certainly, and wins for the funniest choice, but I like the lich idea. This is an encounter that will test the limits of a high-level party and bring incredible RP if the lich actually has some use for them other than the amusement of their deaths. (It sounds a little like a dark reflection of The Lady of the Web from Krull, actually.) Week five: Undecided. The troll will be a tough fight (just be glad they didn't go with the oft-touted half-dragon(black) war troll from other threads :D), but the belkar has more personality. Personality goes a long way. Week six: Another tough choice. Both have the "champion of good" bit going for them, and it would depend largely on setting and power level were I designing the adventure. I tend to favor unicorns and a woodland setting, but the unusual stone giant brings up nice, crunchy possibilities. Week seven: I'm going with the redeemed succubus paladin. The combination itself screams out backstory ideas, and, as I mentioned above, I don't bring a lot of psionics into my games. Illithid are fun, but the succubus idea intrigues me. Week eight: Meepo! Who doesn't love the Keeper of Dragons? My only hang-up with the choice is that Meepo already features (and fairly prominently) in a published adventure. Still, the celestial dire badger doesn't scream out with personality like everyone's favorite LE little lizard, trying to cover his mistakes. I wouldn't mind seeing Meepo with a more central role in an adventure, possibly having moved up in the ranks due to events in The Sunless Citadel, or having taken a few levels and leading his own band of kobolds. Overall, it's a tough choice. I'd like to see Meepo (because of the general fun of kobolds, as well as his specific personality), but I'd be happy with a few of the other choices as well. I'd like to second the idea of incorporating all of the choices into an adventure, if for no other reason than to see if it can be done within a decent storyline. The worst part is that we won't have a winner until August . . . |
| Lyinginbedmon05-11-05, 11:14 AM | Statistics wise, the Gelatinous Cube is far too weak to even begin to take on the Tarrasque, who is almost impossible to kill. Let's face it, if entire towns would run from the Tarrasque and yet use the cube as a sewer cleaner, the Tarrasque is probably the bigger threat |
| sparticus_eleisum05-11-05, 11:27 AM | CUBE: Casual game, kick in the door, hack&slash, staple TARRASQUE: Epíc, Big mean final Boss, deserves a long and great campaign, a dream for powerplayers So, your players could fry a hundred of cubes, but only ONE Tarrasque... Tarrasque is the non plus ultra monster! MEEPO |
| D&DJUNKIE05-11-05, 11:32 AM | i vote cube, every body is making great points for the Tarrasque, but when i first saw this i knew my vote was for the big jelly |
| wingGodzilla05-11-05, 12:07 PM | Remember nothing can beat Godzilla. He may take a hit or 12 but in the end he always wins. Tarrasque is just a little different. All bow down to the all powerful Tarrasque! (then he sleeps for 100 years) |
| Elendur05-11-05, 12:10 PM | This is a popularity contest, not a arena battle. The cube is way cooler. If I want Godzilla in my game I'll play a Supers RPG. There is a reason there are so many adventures with cubes. They are cool. We need an adventure build entirely around a cube. Or Meepo. Either way. Cube: In B2? Check. Cube sandwich pit trap in A3? Check Evolved to support graph paper? Check Not French? Check Easy to pronounce? Check |
| DarkDragonlord05-11-05, 12:18 PM | i voted for the Tarrasque mainly because there is only one for a good reason and because true power should always win. i see the Tarrasque and the marilith dervish going at in the final round now that would be a fight :w00t: |
| MinusInnocence05-11-05, 12:33 PM | For the record, anyone who never played The Apocalypse Stone shouldn't listen to the naysayer somewhere up there. It was a great campaign finisher, and it is a testament to the Tarrasque's ultimate lack of utility that it was only featured in the module as an encounter the PCs should NOT engage in (fighting the Tarrasque carried severe consequences, in the context of the adventure). That being said, the Gelatinous Cube isn't actually made of gelatin. I don't know where this insidious and absurd rumor started but "gelatinous" is only a statement about its consistency, not its actual chemical make-up. Since the Cube isn't actually made of Jell-O (hey, I like Cosby but hate Jell-O), and my personal favorite artistic interpretation of the Tarrasque came from DiTerlizzi (which didn't survive the transition to 3E/v3.5), I'm afraid the Cube wins the day. |
| Navonod Semaj05-11-05, 12:44 PM | Ladies and gents, it has come to my attention that the destroyer of worlds is being edged out by an overgrown Bill Cosby treat. Say what? Folks, think about it a moment. This is a competition where the winner will be featured in an upcoming online adventure. Ya know, those free ones the site posts every two weeks or so. Now, consider our contestants. A half dragon pixie. A succubus paladin (yuck). And a FLIPPING forrest creature! And our shining hope, our SAVIOR from another trite and hackneyed free sidequest is losing to a mindless dung-sweeping gelatinous geometry? They say people in a free democracy deserve whom they elect (something like that). Please consider the results of your actions. GO, DESTROYER OF WORLDS! |
| Mercurius05-11-05, 01:01 PM | Ladies and gents, it has come to my attention that the destroyer of worlds is being edged out by an overgrown Bill Cosby treat. Say what? Folks, think about it a moment. This is a competition where the winner will be featured in an upcoming online adventure. Ya know, those free ones the site posts every two weeks or so. Now, consider our contestants. A half dragon pixie. A succubus paladin (yuck). And a FLIPPING forrest creature! And our shining hope, our SAVIOR from another trite and hackneyed free sidequest is losing to a mindless dung-sweeping gelatinous geometry? They say people in a free democracy deserve whom they elect (something like that). Please consider the results of your actions. GO, DESTROYER OF WORLDS! Meh. I'd rather an adventure I can use, and the Tarrasque's CR makes it pretty much impossible for me to do so. Most of the monsters on the list are pretty unlikely to ever see use, admittedly, but the Tarrasque is certainly not appearing in my games. So I'll vote for pretty much anything but the big T (and he's nowhere near as cool as DiTerlizzi's version from 2nd edition anyway). |
| Vharuck05-11-05, 01:03 PM | Come on! You're not supposed to fight the Tarrasque. It's a big, dumb, brutal machine of natural destruction more frightening than a hurricane! It wasn't meant for game that go like this: DM: The evil cleric is doing something. PCs: Kill him. DM: The kobold tribes are restless. PCs: Kill them. DM: Tarrasque woke up. PCs: Kill it. The tarrasque is, IMO, a plot device more than an opponent. And for this, I love him. |
| Insane Pixie05-11-05, 01:08 PM | I'm not sure what TBD stands for, but I'd like an adventure based around a T-Rex... In either case, I have to vote cube, because it's cuter. :D |
| Cardinal Teplin05-11-05, 02:02 PM | I would like the Terreque more if he was a destroyer of worlds. As it is, he just eats things and then goes to sleep. His only interesting feature is that he's good in a fight and hard to kill. The Tarreque could be something great. As written, it isn't. Now take the cube. An ooze is about the least interesting monster possible. But they've given it an ecology, a niche, character, corners. It fill passageways, lurk in pits, and even have people run straight into it. It can stalk in darkened passageways, the only way you know where it is in the maze is when your torch stops streaming in the breeze, because, from down the corridor, there is no breeze. All this, and it cleans cealings! I feel bound to point out, however, that I've already voted. Go cube! |
| Kujo der Zahn05-11-05, 02:30 PM | TBD= to be determined Alright, many posters here have commented about how much "more useable" an adventure with a 'Cube would be as opposed to one with the Tarrasque. If you can't build an adventure around, or involving, something as basic as a 'Cube all by yourself, turn in your DM's badge right now. You don't deserve to own one. Imagine what the writer's at WotC would have to go through to build a worthwhile adventure around the Tarrasque! Yes, the "ultimate engine of destruction" has some glaring weaknesses, especially for a supposed CR20 critter, but that's exactly why I want to see an "official" adventure built around it. Just how devious can the writers get? Also, for those of you who seem to dislike the power-gamers' seemingly endless "well, if I had to fight the Tarrasque, I'd just..." threads out there, I would like to point out that munchkining works both ways. By that I mean, if players can build ultra-powerful versions of PC's by stacking together any number of classes/skills/feats/spells/items to augment strengths and/or to abolish weaknesses, so can the DM. Do your players know the MM as well, or better, than you? No problem. Throw them a curveball or three. The Tarrasque has no ranged attacks? Find an item or spell (cast by whoever awakened the brute) that stops many ranged attacks against him. Perhaps a permanent Entropic Shield atop his carapace. He can't fly? Give him wings. Just imagine the look on the munchkinned barbarian/ranger/archer's face when the "whimpy ol' Tarrasque" gets to fight back. How do you give him wings when only one exists and it doesn't have them? The best part about unique creatures is, they're unique! Only one Tarrasque? One per world perhaps. Maybe your world just happens to have a slightly different version. Or perhaps the reason it sleeps so long between rampages is because it undergoes some metamorphosis after each outing. This last time it just happened to sprout wings. Or maybe it found a Hip-Flask of Perpetual Red Bull (an item similar in many respects to a Decanter of Endless Water) and simply loves the taste (and its new-found freedom). Because, as we all know, Red Bull gives you wings. Perhaps the brute woke up smart(er) this go around and has a fistful of spell-like abilities such as Fly or Stoneskin or Haste. He's French and therefore would NEVER win in any actual fight? Maybe that's just a disguise to lull adventurers into a false sense of security. Perhaps we could simply change the spelling to something like Terrorisk. My point is simply this: just because the MM says "an Ogre has 4d8+12 hit points," doesn't mean that every single Ogre the party ever faces popped out of a cookie-cutter that created it "just so." Templates and advancements galore exist for any creature you might care to throw at a party. Why, then, is the Tarrasque immune to souping up? Perhaps, it's that pesky carapace. So, vote for the Tarrasque! Or else I'll let him out of his cage and send him over to your place for dinner. |
| ikki05-11-05, 02:32 PM | Ya gotta remember that the winner of the contest gets to be in a D&D adventure. If you want an adventure w a G-Cube in it...just pull out you Dungeon Magazines and old D&D moduals. Im sure you'll find over a dozen adventures already. Now the Tarrasqe on the other hand appeared in only one adventure I can think of....The Apokolypse Stone...and that adventure stunk. Im sure theres a writer can do much better and finally give this awsome monster a role in an adventure worthy of his might. VOTE TARRASQUE!!! You forget: HOW THE MIGHTY ARE FALLEN (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/2/fr_downloads/tsr9541.zip) <---------- Wizards downloads! |
| ikki05-11-05, 02:36 PM | Statistics wise, the Gelatinous Cube is far too weak to even begin to take on the Tarrasque, who is almost impossible to kill. Let's face it, if entire towns would run from the Tarrasque and yet use the cube as a sewer cleaner, the Tarrasque is probably the bigger threat Well you forget the Gelatinuos Cube and "living vault" -hybrid. One that captures foes, disarms and interrogates! |
| PhaedrusXY05-11-05, 02:44 PM | Meepo vs. the Tarrasque. Does that remind anyone of the old animated short "Godzilla vs. Bambi" ? :heehee Ok, I'm convinced. I'll vote for the Tarraque, just to see this. |
| VampricNecromancer05-11-05, 02:56 PM | I vote Tarrasque only because it must fight meepo! I also need to se an appropiate encounter with it. Current other choices Marilith Deverish(with perfect multiweapon fighting(ELH) 24 attacks a round-Come ON!!!!(Also- a thousand cuts 48 wounding attacks) :OMG! Warforged Ninja(just cool!) "Xxerlflyyn"-Beholder swashbuckler(only because liches are over used, Also- it MUST have the persice disintragration feat in LoM so it can disintigrate it's name in it's opponent's armor, al-la Zorro) Male Stone Giant Paladin( only because of the sanctified throwing rocks) "Shuluth"-Mind Flayer(the master commands this.) :coolcthul "Meepo"-the Kobald ( I mean Come ON!!! its a Kobald) |
| mountc05-11-05, 03:13 PM | I voted Tarrasque. I fight gelatinous cubes all the time. I've faced a tarrasque once. I'd like to see this in a module. |
| Odnasept05-11-05, 03:21 PM | Well, it certainly looks like the WotC are doing their job well with this contest, since the first match up has already produced such debate. The Cube versus The Kaiju was a tough decision for me as well, the former being not only a nice bit of dungeon ecology but also being rather nostalgic for me. My first time running one (I've been a DM exclusively for most of my gaming career) was in the lair of Hakra the Black Dragon from The Dragon's Den boxed set (from the D&D 15th printing). While due to the boxed text I was not able to employ any of the tricks mentioned earlier, the cube did manage to paralyze one of the PCs and thus indirectly cause the party to flee the dungeon. However, since the cube is a prominent feature of adventures from 1rst level up, it seems a bit too easy to make an adventure dealing with it (and remember, the contest states that the winner will star as an encounter, not that the adventure will necessarily be centered around them). I have used the Tarrasque only once; not for the PCs to fight, but rather as a sign of the world in great turmoil, a lot like Sapphire Weapon in FFVII months before said game was released. Its ludicrously-high CR means that the Tarrasque should not be dealt with as an encounter which the PCs can have much interaction with until they are practically epic, and by then one usually has even cooler things for them to deal with anyway. Still, I eventually voted for the Tarrasque, since I recall complaints of Dungeon magazine not having enough high-level adventures, since the Tarrasque has generally done little since 1rst Ed but sit in the Monster Manual looking awesome (and I prefer the 2nd Ed artwork to the 3rd, too), and since I would rather like to see what WotC can do with the Tarrasque officially in a d20 System world. My favourite of all the options is probably the Succubus Paladin. With the media continually encouraging the objectification of womyn (when they get included at all), it's nice to see one of the ultimate sex fiends living a life of chaste piety and rocking at it. With her godly Charisma, she's got at least a +8 Divine Grace bonus to all her saves, +8 to hit with Smite Evil, and heals her level TIMES EIGHT with Lay On Hands. I have my doubts that she'll get past the Mind Flayer, though, and Paladin or not she doesn't have a prayer against Meepo! -Odnasept |
| Sucros05-11-05, 03:25 PM | I met the Cube once. Nice guy. It's rare you find a dungeon denizen who's as polite and straightforward as the cube. While all other denizens are all "Grr... I'm going to eat you...", the cube was all "..." because it knew I had to go capture the green dragon wyrmling and return it to the kobolds in return for a guide to the cave of the werewolf who had the noble's son imprisioned, and the cube knew that any discussion would delay me from my task. Vote cube! |
| MindWandererB05-11-05, 03:29 PM | Here's something y'all haven't considered: sure, it's easy to make an adventure with a Gelatinous Cube in it. But how easy is it to make an adventure about a Cube? Remember, the winner gets a starring role, not a supporting one. The Cube makes an awful BBEG- I'd like to see how they do it. Perhaps a small army of them rises up out of the sewers, engulfing everything they see, under the command of an oozemaster necromancer who uses them for corpse collectors. Or maybe that 48 HD Cube goes on a Tarrasque-like rampage. Hmm... it'll be interesting, so that's where my vote goes. Tarrasque adventure, bleah. "It's running around killing, so go kill it first." Oh, that's creative. |
| cwslyclgh05-11-05, 03:52 PM | I vote Gelatinous Cube... a monster created for the game rather then ripped off from french folklore... besides cubes are just fun :) |
| tomismore05-11-05, 04:18 PM | :confused: Question: How exactly do you justify voting for the gelatinous cube when the tarrasque could step on it in the same manner as a human would step on dog doo. Squish. Splat. EW! The tarrasque is the obvious winner. It's just too good. :D |
| cwslyclgh05-11-05, 04:23 PM | Question: How exactly do you justify voting for the gelatinous cube when the tarrasque could step on it in the same manner as a human would step on dog doo. that would be because it is not a physical fight but a popularity contest... which is explained in the intorduction.... |
| grogthecaveman05-11-05, 04:34 PM | So they're gonna incorporate it into an adventure? I vote tarrasque. The cube is used all the time anyway. |
| tomismore05-11-05, 04:42 PM | In response to maestro condescending. I know that the contest isn't about who would win in a battle. It's just that tarrasques are cooler than gelatinous cubes for that very reason. Tarrasques aren't used very often, whereas, though cubes ARE lots of fun, I admit, variety is in all cases more interesting than the average cube. Now, gelatinous cubes CAN be misused in hilarious ways. For instance, putting one under a layer of murky water, or at the bottom of a pit trap, or having animated object walls concealing the cubes drop down on an adventurer, simultaneously crushing and acid burning him. |
| Kujo der Zahn05-11-05, 04:45 PM | Yeah, but how popular can a mobile garbage disposal really be? Look, it's not a contest about which monster goes better with whipped cream. Because, if it was, there's no contest: mind flayer. There's just something about all those tentacles slathered in creamy confection. :blink: Well, the succubus would be be okay, too. |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-11-05, 04:52 PM | hey everyone, i'm new and thought i'd just introduce myself and explian my vote all in one post! so a little about me first, i (as you might of guessed) love the band siouxsie and the banshees, and there are other bands that i love, but siouxsie takes the cake, that's about all, if you have any questions feel free to ask. k, i choose the tarrasque, because, i think it would be really cool to see him in a game, like alot of people said, cubes are just too common, sure there kinda cool, but, i mean, comon, it's just a basic cube... but as for who i want to actualy win, i want the succubus, but thats just me. :D |
| ThyNecromancer05-11-05, 05:02 PM | Tarrasque all the way Tarrasque:Mmmmm jello ~munch swallow whole~ uh oh my throat its burning AHHHHH so painful ~cough cough~ whats this blood? is a good idea.. but you forgot the damage reduction of 25/+5 and regeneration of 40. I doubt the most veteran of dragons could kill a tarrasque in a 1v1 Plus you can run from the cube.. not from a hungry tarrasque |
| crazyeuclid05-11-05, 05:27 PM | i'll admit meepo is awesome but how many kobold adventures are there? kobolds are overused. but i'd love to see my lvl2 party take on a tarrasque :ghosted: |
| Josh_Kablack05-11-05, 05:38 PM | Gelationus Cubes + Levitate + Prestidigitation = crazy old wizard who plays Tetris in the swamp. Tarrasque = Threads that never die. |
| D&D_Madness 500005-11-05, 05:41 PM | :D I voted for Tarrasque. Cube can be used to make a good dessert, but the Tarrasque wants to make YOU the dessert! Obviously, not even an army of those black dragons from the basic game can take a tarrasque! :D |
| Vengeblade05-11-05, 06:18 PM | c'mon guys, we need more higher level adventures. It sounds like no one wants to play past 11th level anymore, but without high level challenges, it just doesn't feel like D&D to me. Besides what if they made a module with the tarrasque where it's mondless carnage was needed to balance the world, but now some high level wiz has found a way to make it sick and start to die. Now the party must try to save the creature while remembering not to get eaten by it. That would be weird, yet awsome |
| Monsoon2805-11-05, 06:40 PM | You forget: HOW THE MIGHTY ARE FALLEN (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/2/fr_downloads/tsr9541.zip) <---------- Wizards downloads! Are you kidding, IIRC it only woke up if you used a none magical weapon on it! That adventure was for 11-12+ Who doesn't have a magical weapon?? So great the Tarrasque makes an appearance...sleeping. :yawn: |
| PearlJamaholic05-11-05, 07:19 PM | Tarrasque. if it doesnt win it would be a crying shame. i think the only thing that could stand in its way is meepo. Meepo '05 |
| |)ar|{05-11-05, 07:22 PM | I can see the adventure now... an awakened cube wizard/oozemaster... leading an army of oozes... now thats an adventure. Not the it matters because Meepo is going all the way but for the record Vote for Cube |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-11-05, 07:31 PM | Not the it matters because Meepo is going all the way but for the record i know :( know one else has a chance! i mean, c'mon, it's a cobold named meepo, the majority of everyone is gonna vote for him. |
| Takasi05-11-05, 07:44 PM | The Cube makes an awful BBEG Exactly. If, as you said, they throw in an oozemaster then the Cube is no longer the star. |
| DarQuing05-11-05, 08:59 PM | I voted Tarrasque mostly for the 'Holy Shite' factor. The cube is great for low-mid level adventures, but after awhile its like 'Oh look, another gelatinous cube'. :P The Tarrasque is something you can save for the end and watch the plays go pale (for those who actually have blood), soiling their lower-extremity clothing, and then running like a bunch of kobolds. :D |
| Laranis Callirr05-11-05, 09:02 PM | You can't compare a cube of food to a legendary creature that treats the world as it's afternoon snack. |
| Sobek05-11-05, 09:39 PM | I have to say I vote for the cube, the Terrasque, just dosn't do anything for me, I am sorry :) That last matchup is far to difficult Badger? Meepo? Badger?? Meepo?! BADGER?!! MEEPO!!? Oh its difficult.... but I think Meepo will get my vote. Meepo vs. the Tarrasque. Does that remind anyone of the old animated short "Godzilla vs. Bambi" ? Sigged Gelationus Cubes + Levitate + Prestidigitation = crazy old wizard who plays Tetris in the swamp. Man, two siggy's in one thread, keep em coming :) |
| davethebrave37105-11-05, 10:08 PM | I just rolled dice to see who won, because I couldn't decide my preference...an awesomely powerful, or awesomely humourous creature. I chose the Colossal Gelatinous Cube, and had the battle play out. The Tarrasque won, so I voted Tarrasque. |
| DracoDM0105-11-05, 10:14 PM | My halfling rogue walked into a black pudding once, lost his armor, got a better armor class, then died of a supernatural disease. So I hate Gelatinous and or Desserts (pudding, cube, uber mass). Tarrasque all the way. Until Meepo, Meepo can kick the Tar out of the Tarrasque. Meepo 05 |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-11-05, 10:24 PM | You can't compare a cube of food to a legendary creature that treats the world as it's afternoon snack. that's what i think about this whole thing |
| Bard-of-all-trades05-11-05, 10:43 PM | If this was set up like a true single elimination tournament, it pits the top seed versus the last seed. That being said, this is hysterical!! The size differential between the Terrasque and a gelatinous cube for one makes the winner the Terrasque. There's no way a cube could even penetrate the mystically thick armor plating of the Terrasque. If anything, you might find a cube living in the lair of the Terrasque ... sucking on the leftover remnants of parts and bits that happen to fall off it when it goes to its lair after a hard day of rampaging. My vote: The Terrasque. PS I haven't read any of the other responses and will do so now. |
| Eikcuf05-11-05, 11:12 PM | My vote is for Tarrasque. This guy is great. A vote for cube is a vote for the maid. |
| tomismore05-11-05, 11:25 PM | Well, first of all, Kobold named Meepo is about the funniest thing since the blubber cannon story. (If you haven't heard it, I'll be happy to tell it.) Anyway, that's beside the point. I will always have a piece of my heart reserved for celestial dire badgers, since they are pretty much the most common Summon Monster I & III creatures, and my gnome bard (named Seebo), was always summoning them before he saw the error of his ways and turned to more useful and exploitable techniques of overcoming his enemies. Still undecided, as Meepo is just so darn COOL! |
| feyisnice05-11-05, 11:26 PM | ha! you laugh at the Gelatinous ooze but by adding Hit Dice to increase it to Gargantuan size, adding a few template to it (anarchic, paragon, half-fiend, Entropic,) casting a few spells on it (Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Eagle's Splendor, fox's Cunning, Owl's Wisdom) & adding class levels (fighter/sorcerer) we turn the humble Gelatinous ooze into the UlTIMATE ENGINE OF COSMIC DESTRUCTION! note: the above statment is a cunning plot hatch by a looney :looloo: DM to enslaved the multverse to his own design :shocked: needless to say his plot hasn't worked yet. maxing out monster is a big no-no. we are sorry to trouble your day. Remember to vote Meepo! :D |
| guru789205-11-05, 11:53 PM | ok, meepo is an easy win and that seccubus paliden is getting my vote. but i have to go with the big T on this one... i mean that cube is just as good as J-E-L-L-O. yeah meepo has got the contest in the bag though... |
| rampant05-12-05, 12:33 AM | all hail the might of the cube itl just get stuck in the tarrasques throat and choke it p.s. meepo is badger food go warforged ninja |
| DDogwood05-12-05, 12:51 AM | I voted for the Gelatinous Cube - it's evolved for the unique dungeon climates of D&D, and I can jerry-rig a mini for it by stacking up a bunch of d6's. I'd like to see someone make a Tarrasque out of dice! :devil: :pbbbtt: |
| kindle13905-12-05, 12:54 AM | :invasion: NONE CAN STOP THE CUBE! Living Prismatic Spray Gelatinous Cube |
| Ravnzbane05-12-05, 12:57 AM | Honestly, there should have been a better match-up. The Tarrasque against... a gelatinous cube? THE Monster of Legend versus a block of goo. The likelihood of all of the combined monsters in the competition against the Tarrasque might make it a more worthwhile battle. This battle should be removed. Perhaps a Balor mounted upon a Great-Wyrm Red Dragon would be more appropriate in a battle against the Tarrasque? Cube. No. |
| Maybelater05-12-05, 01:28 AM | I've noticed something here: ALL the DM's are voting for the gelatinous cube. "Why?", you might ask? "Because jello is my favoritist ever," they say. "I remember the 8,934,736th time I used one, it was as hilarious as the first," they say. "It absorbs things.... (insert hokey finger waving here)oooooooooh," they say. "You might not see it coming in a pitch black dungeon," they say. (Like a permanent darkness spell is so rare or something) The other thing I've noticed is that most of the people who actually have a PC want to fight the Terrasque. It's big, it's scary, and it's the ultimate victory if you can kill it. I mean, how cool is it to say you've killed the Terrasque!? Whereas an adventuring group can go into just about any tavern and ask, "Hey! Who here has killed a gelatinous cube?" and about the only person that won't raise their hand would be the teary-eyed kobold in the corner who just found out that the "potion of coolness" he just bought from the local drunkard with the 2 silvers his mom gave him for lunch money, is actually a spitoon from the halfling tavern down the street. (Yeah, that was a shot at Meepo, but he deserves it) Ok, there are some valid reasons that the Terrasque might not cool without careful preparation. The fact that it can't fly comes to mind (thus allowing the PC's to just fly around it and te it) but these are things a mini-adventure would address and fix. Who knows, maybe the Terrasque just throws a house at anyone that trys to fly around it. (Personally, getting hit with an entire house would teach me some respect) Leave it up to the writers to take care of the issues. You DM's are going to keep using gelatinous cubes whether a mini-adventure is written for one or not or not. So at least let the PC's do something they actually want. Vote Terrasque! |
| vampirehunter4205-12-05, 01:54 AM | I voted Terrasque, but I am now seeing how the ideas on the cube work. |
| Gothenem05-12-05, 02:02 AM | I'm gonna vote for the Cube. It wins because it's underrated. Nearly invisible until too late, even with darkvision, the cube can simply ice the party from complete surprise. The Tarrasque is just another smash+eat monster. :bored: |
| wingGodzilla05-12-05, 02:03 AM | All I have to say is Tarrasque vs. Meepo. Now THAT is a throw down!" MEEPO & TARRASQUE in '05 For a better tomorrow |
| ssvegeta55505-12-05, 02:35 AM | I voted for the Tarrasque becuase he's like uh.. FREAKING AWSOME! He's a pain to kill also. |
| Orvar05-12-05, 02:44 AM | Tarrasque. Hands down. Wow, I'm feeling so inspired, maybe I should let my lv 9 PCs fight him... or her, whatever. |
| Sousinne05-12-05, 02:59 AM | Nonono, you guys have this all wrong... The cube should win, because both of it's prospective next matchups are going to be an odd form of mud wrestling. if it wins. =) |
| doctorhook05-12-05, 04:57 AM | Am I the only one who wants to see the psion mind flayer go up? I mean, mind flayers just rock! A dark society of elitists who rely on working together to overhaul and dominate! I'm with you, man! Despite my Cubeophilia, I'll vote that Mind Flayer straight to the top! |
| apedaemon05-12-05, 04:59 AM | Hail to the templated, do-it-yourself monsters! But, wait... where are my favourites? The Wizard/Ninja/Half-drow Lemure, the Paladin/Monk Tiny Monstrous Snake, the Illithid/Vampiric/Earth-Elemental/Lich/Monk/Wizard/(add some powerful prestige classes to the list) Squirrel and friends. Celestial Dire Badger? :rofl: Tarrasque VS Gelatinous Cube? I think, I will vote for VS. :weep: EOF. |
| PrinceAzar05-12-05, 06:40 AM | A Gelatinous Cube is like that same old sandwich you eat day in and day out...some mustard, some mayonaise, maybe a little meat from the back of the fridge with slime growing on it. A Tarrasque...now that's like going to the most expensive restaurant in town and getting the club sandwich decked with toppings and fillings, so large, it'll block your intestines, and so greasy good, it blocks your arteries. Plus, Tarrasque steak would taste SO much better than Cosby's newest product, Gelatinous Cube-Dingy Dungeon Flavour Go Tarrasque!!! :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: And for all you CUBE :pbbbtt: lovers, how could you forget the bottom strip? http://www.giantitp.com/Images/fanart/ootsfill1.gif |
| TellerofTruths05-12-05, 07:33 AM | :thinks: I want to vote for Tarrasque, but how would you hurt that thing? If Tarrasque tries hitting it, he gets a hand or arm stuck, if kicking, foot or leg. If the cube gets either he will swallow the Tarrasqe up. Tarrasque will eventually make a mistake and back into a corner or something. Even with the cube going it's slowest it would probably win. Or the Cube would just sit/stand/wobble there in the middle of the hall you cannot go around/above /under it. The cube HAS to win. P.s. Order of The Stick is awsome, and it just proved me right. You CANNOT hurt the Cube. :w00t: :w00t: Cube is the :king: baby!! |
| PrinceAzar05-12-05, 07:53 AM | Hey, as much as I hated equating creatures to food :D Mr. Overgrown Monitor Lizard is going to treat the Cube' as nothing more than a jiggling delicacy. http://www.aawaa.org/images/eart6/jello.jpg Bye bye cube!!! :fight!: http://www.k12.nf.ca/janecollins/1998_99/spiritwk/jello2.jpg |
| TellerofTruths05-12-05, 08:02 AM | Let me go back to the point of CANNOT HURT A GIANT CUBE!!! Tarrasque cannot touch it without be sucked in, no matter what he tries to do, he will eventually just give up and try to run through it. Tarrasque has to lose. Now read that over again and again until you get it. All of you Tarrasque lovers have to face the TRUTH. Cube is :king: and is going to :teach: that Tarrasque a lesson and make him say :help: by just :waits: . Man that took 10 seconds... |
| PrinceAzar05-12-05, 08:10 AM | We're forgetting one thing... Every hero needs his weapon, and the tarrasque needs a Titanic sized... http://www.silverqueen.com/Silverplated_Tableware/sppic/first%20love%20sugar%20spoon.JPG Spoon!!!!!!!! Scoopy: +12 Ooze Bane Vorpal Flaming Acidic Adamantine Spoon!!! |
| Zyphus05-12-05, 08:40 AM | While I realise this is to generate hype and excitement (which is always fun) wouldn't it be easier to just write an adventure for each of them? Out of the group the most interesting ones are the Succubus paladin (since a demon isn't supposed to be able to redeem itself by definition - is she under a curse? What Power could she follow?) or the Tarrasque (what adventure would have one? What kind of plot-line would it have, assuming you aren't supposed to be above level 20?) I'm sorry, but I am not familiar with Meepo. I do know I have 2 or 3 players that would love to see a Celestial Dire Badger in the campaign at some point. Can't Meepo whine his way into a compromise so they both win and he can then ride the badger on his way to glorious defeat in the very last contest? |
| BirthRight05-12-05, 09:00 AM | Go for the Cube, but if you want an equal fight... Open the Monster Manual 3, and find an Omnimental. Its as good as the Tarrasque and it can fly. |
| tivs05-12-05, 09:24 AM | cube hands down, tarrasque is a waste of space imo |
| delroland05-12-05, 09:25 AM | Tarrasque vs. Gelatinous Cube: Can they swallow their prey whole? Big T: yes GC: yes Big T vs. GC: yes GC vs. Big T: no Point goes to Big T. Do they paralyze their opponents? Big T: yes, with fear! GC: yes Big T vs. GC: no GC vs. Big T: technically, yes (if Big T rolls a one) Point goes to GC, but mostly so that this isn't a sweep. # of attacks? Big T: 6, and a partridge in a pear tree GC: 1 + special Point goes to Big T. Special Qualities? Big T: regen, reflection, autofear, augmented crits, swallow whole; this thing has it all! GC: paralysis, engulf, improved grab... yawn! What are we talking about again? Carrion Crawlers? Chuul? Piscoloths? I can never remember... Point goes to Big T. Speed? Big T: 30, plus it can charge 150! GC: 15... how can you be scared of something you can just walk away from? Garbage Disposal? Big T: eats anything that gets in its way! GC: eats anything that gets in its way... unless it is made of inorganic material Point goes to Big T. Player Reaction to MM Description? Big T: Did you say FIVE STORIES?!?! GC: Eww... Point goes to Big T. # of Arguments Players Have Gotten Into as to How Best to Kill One? Big T: nearly uncountable GC: 5? maybe? ever? Point goes to Big T. # of Adventure Covers with Creature on Cover and the Severed Arm of the Fighter Battling with It? Big T: 1 (How the Mighty are Fallen) GC: 0 Point goes to Big T. As you can see by my totally unbiased scientific comparison, the Tarrasque wins by an immense margin! :P |
| delroland05-12-05, 09:30 AM | ...the Tarrasque (what adventure would have one? What kind of plot-line would it have, assuming you aren't supposed to be above level 20?) "How the Mighty Are Fallen" The Story: you are an elite band of adventurers recruited by the MOST POWERFUL MAGE IN THE WORLD!!! to gather the components for his greatest spell ever! These components include parts from some of the most POWERFUL CREATURES TO EXIST! including Great Wyrm Gold Dragons and the mighty Tarrasque! This is an actual TSR-published adventure, and how many times have you heard a Gelatinous Cube called mighty? Or have it be the cornerstone of an entire adventure? Or even be the last boss fight of a dungeon? GC is the maltreated step-child of low level dungeon DM's everywhere. |
| delroland05-12-05, 09:36 AM | *deleted (by poster) Meepo statement to be reinserted at an appropriate time* :) |
| Quendishir05-12-05, 09:38 AM | I think it was Gwynn who said it best, "There's always room for gelatin[ous cube]." Hence why I voted for the Cube. It's so much better then rampaging Godzilla over there, even though I'd love to see a Meepo vs. The Tarrasque battle. I think Meepo would so be like Yoda in Episode II, sans the power of the Force. On that note, we should all vote for Ralph Nader. Honestly, no matter what, we all win if Nader makes it to the finals. Because he'll lose to the Tarrsque/gelatinous Cube/Succubus Paladin/Marine Corp band geek . Semper Fi, people. And remember, "Napalm sticks to kids!" is [i]not a motivational phrase! |
| Diefreak05-12-05, 09:39 AM | The cube Sucks! The big Behomoth has acids in his stomuch that can melt diomends and stuff and plus it scares the gods away as well as dragons......iVote for the tarra after all ...all i need is some oil pints and a flint and steel and we are cooking the cube for lunch of course you need a wish for tarra.I VOTE TARRASQUE |
| bookwurm05-12-05, 09:42 AM | Tarrasque, hands down. It's the baddest killing machine out there. The cube has it's places (mostly getting kicked around by low level groups), but the Tarrasque is so powerful, they had to make it a unique creature!! I just had a brainstorm. Put an immunity to wish, miracle, etc. ring on a Tarrasque. Can't be killed by anything then :evillaugh |
| delroland05-12-05, 09:48 AM | Put an immunity to wish, miracle, etc. ring on a Tarrasque. Can't be killed by anything then :evillaugh Until the fighter sunders the ring. The Tarrasque may not have a touch AC as bad as the Cube, but it is still pretty bad... |
| PrinceAzar05-12-05, 09:52 AM | Have it swallow the ring(protecting it from acid and bludgeoning of course) :D |
| Diefreak05-12-05, 09:55 AM | Remeber that the monster manual stats that tarra's acids are bedyound deadly so he can have gello for desert and his acids will over ride the cubes i mean come on atleast 20 points of acid damage per rounds is bad also remeber that the cube is a dumb creature to kill where's a Tarraque is a true challange to kill...oh yea did i mention that is armor is almost un penetrable and if you kill it and his scales made into fine armor your unstopable **Think people** ! it's design to kill nothing more VOTE TARRAQUE! |
| PrinceAzar05-12-05, 10:03 AM | :heehee |
| Wayward Son05-12-05, 10:21 AM | While I realise this is to generate hype and excitement (which is always fun) wouldn't it be easier to just write an adventure for each of them? Out of the group the most interesting ones are the Succubus paladin (since a demon isn't supposed to be able to redeem itself by definition - is she under a curse? What Power could she follow?) or the Tarrasque (what adventure would have one? What kind of plot-line would it have, assuming you aren't supposed to be above level 20?) What do you think the writers over at WotC will be doing over the next three months as the contest plays out? I'm sure they already have a plot synopsis drawn up for each candidate, and will start fleshing out the adventures as some are eliminated. That is, unless, they are as geeked about the contest as we are and are busy campaigning for their favorite. :D As for the succubus paladin, the Book of Exaulted Deeds introduces a 9th-level spell called Sanctify the Wicked that imprisons an evil creature for a year inside a small gem. If they aren't freed in that time, they make an insanely-high Will save. If they fail, they are purged of their evil and become good. Some supernatural abilities get deleted, new ones added. It works even on Outsiders with the Evil subtype, so demons can be redeemed, too. (And to an earlier post about it, who says a Paladin has to be chaste? Good, yes, following her code, yes, but there's nothing in the RAW about chastity. Who says she can't use her seductive abilities to turn people to the side of right, instead of killing them in the name of evil?) |
| Zyphus05-12-05, 11:23 AM | "How the Mighty Are Fallen" The Story: you are an elite band of adventurers recruited by the MOST POWERFUL MAGE IN THE WORLD!!! to gather the components ... parts from some of the most POWERFUL CREATURES ... including ... the mighty Tarrasque! That was interesting. Either the Tarrasque was much smaller then (maybe it wasn't fully grown back in 2nd ed?), or the people fighting it are Titan-sized. Sadly, my players would make sure not to kill it so they could collect multiple parts when it regenerates so they can copy and cast the spell later (and with Epic rules it is mechanically possible). But the Tarrasque seems to be the only monster I have heard of that you have to kill with non-lethal damage. Normal damage is pointless (though it may help knock it out) and a squad of monks with acid resistance and some decent damage-boosting looking to get swallowed may have a fairly easy time - provided someone else can cast the wish. Is the Tarrasque the only critter you never have to do lethal damage to to kill? Doesn't being swallowed do something other than put you in a dark acidic pit? I assume it at least counts as an automatic grapple you can't escape from, but the rules don't say that. Plus there would be some kind of size limit on what would be pinned/grappled/free. Why is there no Escape Artist DC to get out, especially if you are Tiny? The Gelatinous Cube just doesn't make me ponder such absurdities and hope for an adventure to be made to clarify my questions. Where did it come from? Where is it going? What does it want? What class would it take it if could gain a level? What happens if an Epic Ranger or Druid befriends it with Wild Empathy and has it go around eating armies until there are no armies left to eat? Can the huge dragon cohort of the Epic Ranger/Druid use it as a mount and use the Ride skill to make a person miss it once per round while the Ranger/Druid does the same thing with its dragon? It truly could be mind-boggling. But an adventure quest to find a magic spoon to kill a cube would be kind of fun. |
| dragonmage_205-12-05, 11:25 AM | Ok first i'd like to say i voted Big T, i've played dnd sence 79 and been a dm sence bout 81 and throwing a GC into a dungeon is only appropriate, however finding a place for something as devistating as the Terrasque is truly challenging. As far as meepo Wizards already has an adventure with him ( and just so you know the white dragon wyrmling he was saposed to be gurading killed him with its breath then we killed the white dragon (sorry bout that all you meepo fans but it was the way it had to be the little blogger was taking up too much of our well deserved XP and serving no purpose in the party except as comic releaf, and he just wasn't that funny)). But it would be kinda cool to see him come back as some really awsome npc in the future. I love to throw a few levels of fighter or sorcerer onto a normally weak creature and watch the pcs squirm when a Kobold chucks a fireball at em. lol |
| greedo9905-12-05, 11:34 AM | The gelatinous cube all the way. Its like fighting a square Rosie O'Donnel, it takes up the whole hallway, jiggles when it moves, it doesnt have a brain and eats EVERYTHING in its path. :rolleyes: |
| wizzardman05-12-05, 11:46 AM | Gelatinous cubes all the way. Trust me, I've DM'd with both. The Tarrasque was boring, so I had to spruce it up a bit mid-game. However, there is nothing, absolutely nothing, boring about watching a warforged try to swim out of a gelatinous cube. The swashbuckler Beholder must win a round, however. As must the Ninja Warforged. Why, you ask? Because it will finally settle the ultimate question: Who will win in a fight: a pirate...or a ninja! |
| Ojoxsofeta05-12-05, 12:27 PM | Meepo will beat the tarrasque (or anything else that it comes up against). Why? A.) Kobolds know how to run and hide. B.) Meepo has dragon friends to call upon. |
| havershame_swordflinger05-12-05, 12:28 PM | meepo is badger food go warforged ninja :w00t: Finally some one has seen the light. By combining these two clasic arch-types the robot ninja rule the world. :evillaugh He's unstopable. |
| Bluntaxe05-12-05, 12:39 PM | You have to vote for the Cube. What is Tarrasque but an impressive stat list slapped on a big monster? The Gelatinous Cube changes the way one looks at Jello! |
| TokTok05-12-05, 12:42 PM | Jelly Cube! I've had enough of em big rampaging wild beasts. I want a calm, acidic, 'peaceful' blob of gelatine to annoy the PC's. "Mr. Meepo, do you wish to react on your gathered and loyal fanbase? Ermm...Mr. Meepo?" *Insert Meepo dancing a happy-dance.* |
| Drindin05-12-05, 12:52 PM | The fights gonna look a little something like this:Tarrasque goes THWOMP! no more cube! |
| KoboldSlayer05-12-05, 12:56 PM | As for the succubus paladin, the Book of Exaulted Deeds introduces a 9th-level spell called Sanctify the Wicked that imprisons an evil creature for a year inside a small gem. If they aren't freed in that time, they make an insanely-high Will save. If they fail, they are purged of their evil and become good. Some supernatural abilities get deleted, new ones added. It works even on Outsiders with the Evil subtype, so demons can be redeemed, too. (And to an earlier post about it, who says a Paladin has to be chaste? Good, yes, following her code, yes, but there's nothing in the RAW about chastity. Who says she can't use her seductive abilities to turn people to the side of right, instead of killing them in the name of evil?) You can always slap a helm of opposite alignment on a succubus to obtain the correct alignment to be a paladin. Quick and cheap (since it's cursed). And it has two benefits in regard to players if they slay first and ask questions later after looting the corpse: 1. Being cursed, it doesn't enrich their pocketbooks very much. 2. If one of them puts it on, you've got a whole new plot twist as they drastically shift their world-view. :eek: VOTE MEEPO! |
| Moderator05-12-05, 01:08 PM | I posted this elsewhere, so I thought I might as well post it here too: Hey! Is it too late to set up a contest NCAA March Madness Basketball style? The big T should roll through everything ( Yawn) , so lets get it eliminated now! Go cube! This contest cannot be strictly about who would win, but really, is ultimately about what monster you'd most like to see featured in an adventure you can use for YOUR game -right? Here's my predicitons with only bragging rights at stake: Round One: Tarrasque VS Gelatinous Cube winner: Gelatinous Cube ( despite fanboy powergamer votes stuffing the ballot box? ) "Lady Bestine" Half-Gold Dragon/Pixie VS Marilith Dervish winner:Marilith Dervish ( six arms AND evil? yummy! ) "Ellith'rin" Half-Amethyst Dragon/Iridescent Naga VS Warforged Ninja winner:Warforged Ninja ( I think we are all tired of half dragons ) "Jannys Shadowgaunt" F Drow Lich/Grtr Iron Golem VS "Xxerlflyyn" Beholder Swashbuckler winner:Jannys Shadowgaunt" F Drow Lich/Grtr Iron Golem (even odds here!) Troll Frenzied Berserker VS "Grynerstempos" Advanced Belkar Soul Eater winner:Troll Frenzied Berserker (losing next round anyway! ) Half-Celestial Unicorn VS Male Stone Giant Paladin winner:Male Stone Giant Paladin (who wants an adventure with a unicorn in it? ) Succubus Paladin VS "Shuluth" Mind Flayer winner:Succubus Paladin ( guiltless lovin' - say no more! ) Celestial Dire Badger VS "Meepo" Kobold winner:"Meepo" Kobold ( by a LANDSLIDE!! ) Round two winners: Marilith Dervish Warforged Ninja ( in a close one!) Stone Giant Paladin Succubus Paladin Finals: Warforged Ninja VS. Succubus Paladin Winner: Succubus Paladin in an adventure that should be VERY interesting! Step up with your bracket predictions! |
| Peter Lee05-12-05, 01:50 PM | CUBE! (http://www.coolminiornot.com/12559) |
| glumag05-12-05, 02:03 PM | I am voting for the gel cube because somehow I think this is also a way for wotc to meassure up which DDMs should be made. My votes will be based purely on that. What can I say, I like vynil. :thumbsup: |
| tomismore05-12-05, 02:15 PM | Celestial Dire Badger? :rofl: I resent that! Haven't you had a bard whose best combat spell is the Summon Monster series? Celestial badgers practically made up the whole of Seebo's offensive before certain events. GOOOOOO BADGER!!! Badger badger badger badger... www.badgerbadgerbadger.com OH YES! |
| tomismore05-12-05, 02:17 PM | Also, in response to Glumag, I agree that a gelatinous cube miniature would be the best dang miniature since the red dragon! BOOYA! I still voted for the Tarrasque though. |
| sfedi05-12-05, 02:25 PM | It doesn't matter if the Tarrasque's or the GC wins this round. Meepo will prevail. Vote for Meepo! Meepo '05 |
| Trelew05-12-05, 02:31 PM | It depends on the context of this competition. If you are saying what would happen if these two critters went one-on-one, then Tarry would eventually win because he would outlast cube until it got crushed (about a round or two). Now if you are asking as GM which would I like to use, it would the Cosby favourite, Gello! While Tarry is basically a force of nature that you can only just hope to survive, it just pops up maybe once or twice in the campaign (unless you have a truely preverse GM or a PC with an Ahab complex). Cubes are flexible enough to use anywhere. They are the perfect in mobile traps. Heck, they even clean up after itself after it disposes the unwitting PCs |
| Salla05-12-05, 02:34 PM | I voted G-Cube for purely selfish reasons. I almost never run games at a high enough level for the Tarrasque's monstrous CR to be appropriate. If I'm going to vote for an online adventure, it's going to be one I can actually use. :) |
| Grynn05-12-05, 02:46 PM | It doesn't matter if the Tarrasque's or the GC wins this round. Meepo will prevail. Vote for Meepo! Meepo '05 Meepo is a man of the people, low-level. Not like those high level Washington insiders. Meepo knows about the concerns of people out of the beltway. Meepo believes in the dignity of a good day's work. |
| Odnasept05-12-05, 02:49 PM | to an earlier post about it, who says a Paladin has to be chaste? Good, yes, following her code, yes, but there's nothing in the RAW about chastity. Who says she can't use her seductive abilities to turn people to the side of right, instead of killing them in the name of evil?) Whoa, I didn't mean to hinder your Paladin role-playing any! ;) Actually, when I said 'chaste piety' I was referring to the 2nd Edition description of the Paladin. While I don't believe chastity was or is anything more than Paladinic flavour text (it isn't/wasn't officially part of their code of conduct), I mentioned it because it was humourous considering the situation. Hopefully people will get it. Oh, and my brother said that a Succubus Paladin played as you suggested could easily get her own series. ;) -Odnasept |
| sfedi05-12-05, 03:08 PM | Meepo is a man of the people, low-level. Not like those high level Washington insiders. Meepo knows about the concerns of people out of the beltway. Meepo believes in the dignity of a good day's work. Oh my god! You're killing me! LOL!!!! Hahahahhaahahahhaah!! |
| Hufish05-12-05, 03:21 PM | C'mon! It's the perfect trap! Put it in the bottom of a pit sized so it reaches the level of the floor, covered with a thin layer of dirt. It don't /eat/ dirt, so the dirt stays there. Rogue moves carefully to check for traps; no mechanisms. He steps forward; SCHLOOP! he's caught in gelatinous goodness. All the Tarrasque does is eat; that's soooooo passe. :dancin: :dancin: |
| cvazi05-12-05, 03:49 PM | my question is why do the tarrasque and cube have to fight? can't they just be friends? maybe friends with benefits? and after some sweet sweet luvin' make lil' jelly tarrasques? I vote cube. |
| Hufish05-12-05, 03:59 PM | half-gelatinous tarrasque babies! :evillaugh :dancin: |
| Gelatinous Cube05-12-05, 04:03 PM | my question is why do the tarrasque and cube have to fight?I'm not here to fight the Tarrasque ... It smells so bad I cant get close enough to fight it ... Vote For Me! ... I smell like lemmons. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/monster_poll_cube.jpg |
| cvazi05-12-05, 04:08 PM | :pint: aye! did indeed. now lets grab a pint an' celebrate! |
| Soulmage05-12-05, 04:27 PM | I voted Tarrasque for the same reason many others have. . . because this monster is screaming for a dedicated adventure all its own. The G-Cube is pretty much a drag-and-drop creature. (Although it is cool.) I didn't read all 20+ pages of this but I did see a poster with an excellent point. Neither of these monsters is going to beat some of the later competition. In fact, I'm going to come right out and say that Meepo is going to be the winner of this contest. Hopefully, they'll come back later and do a Tarrasque adventure anyway. |
| Wayward Son05-12-05, 04:37 PM | Whoa, I didn't mean to hinder your Paladin role-playing any! ;) Actually, when I said 'chaste piety' I was referring to the 2nd Edition description of the Paladin. While I don't believe chastity was or is anything more than Paladinic flavour text (it isn't/wasn't officially part of their code of conduct), I mentioned it because it was humourous considering the situation. Hopefully people will get it. Oh, and my brother said that a Succubus Paladin played as you suggested could easily get her own series. ;) -Odnasept It's all good. :dancin: I was just offering a fun alternative. Now, to get to work on the series pitch for Wicked Justice <c>. . . :plotting: |
| Haer'dalis05-12-05, 04:38 PM | I voted Mr T. Not because it's like godzilla (it's not: half-troll pyroclastic dragon is). I did that because it's like deathclaw - the only creature in Fallout series that made me tremble in awe at the mere sight of it charging towards my character. About the same feeling i'd expect while facing Mr T one-on-one. As far as others are concerned, my votes will go for: marilith warforged troll lich succubus (hope she wins though her mount is a little bit too odd) Meepo (though i don't want the little rat to win the finals) P.S. To GL: don't take it personally, I don't have anything against jello, but you're not even close to beaing the meanest ooze on the block. Living Disjunction is ;) |
| TellerofTruths05-12-05, 05:01 PM | It doesn't matter what Tarrasque has, if he tries to touch/hit the Cube he/she will be sucked in. So it would end up a tie becuase Tarrasque wouldn't atttack or he/she would lose. Also, the Cube cannot catch Tarrasque so neither can win. :teach: :teach: :teach: |
| Grumsh One-eye05-12-05, 05:10 PM | The cube is great for suprising characters, or guarding treasure. (Just stick the crown in the middle of one and drop it all down a well, nail well shut, laugh as party tries to figure it all out) But the tarrasque, ah that is truly fun. you don't even have to use it, just the idea, the threat of unleashing a creature so destrcuctive and powerful all of there little plans will unravel in an orgy of blood and fire. so yeah go tarrasque :cheer: |
| delroland05-12-05, 06:49 PM | It doesn't matter what Tarrasque has, if he tries to touch/hit the Cube he/she will be sucked in. So it would end up a tie becuase Tarrasque wouldn't atttack or he/she would lose. Also, the Cube cannot catch Tarrasque so neither can win. :teach: :teach: :teach: okay, the gelatinous cube does not work that way at all, fyi... and the only adventure i can think of *starring* the cube that would be even remotely interesting would be if you constructed an entire dungeon out of the little buggers |
| Aion Khonsu05-12-05, 07:47 PM | Some might say Badger is too hot-headed, some might say that he has no leadership potential. But throughout a fight, Badger will stay till the bitter end while certain small-sized reptilians will run or surrender. We need a leader who will not back down even when the going gets tough. a leader like Badger. paid for by the Vote For Badger Council |
| TellerofTruths05-12-05, 08:11 PM | :thinks: Thats right... hmmm... this puts an end to my plan. Ummm... go Tarrasque I guess. :surrender :confused: :confused: :confused: :cheer: :w00t: :w00t: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: GO TARRASQUE!!! |
| Grynn05-12-05, 08:12 PM | Oh my god! You're killing me! LOL!!!! Hahahahhaahahahhaah!! I'm a journalism student with an outside focus (like a minor-minor) in poli. sci., so I know all the buzzwords. Look around, find some more of my posts on the topic. Also, Meepo is fiscally responsible. Dire Badger's numbers are the results of "creative accounting." |
| TellerofTruths05-12-05, 08:24 PM | Tarrasque will slay you all. HAHAHAHA :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :schemes: :schemes: :schemes: Bow to the Tarrasque :bow: :bow: :bow: |
| MasterChef PrC05-12-05, 08:47 PM | You wouldn't believe it, but there is a monestary of Intelligent Oozes that has developed strategies to take on the entire world. It does require that an enlightened Ooze (Ooza as they like to differentiate themselves) be created every day for a year, and that a years worth of Red Wizard trained oozes(those that survive the trials of Red Wizard-dom) create a Wizard's Circle around the Grand-daddy of Ooze's (Epic Red Wizard of Necromancy, anonymous sidekick to Szass Tam, Oozopholous the Paterfamilious, Enlightened Gelatinous Cube of all Cubes- even Rubik's). After an Epic Red Wizard Circle Jamboree is completed. The Grandpa of the Oozes goes on a 24 hour hunt for the Big Guy. Through scrying and teleportation, a hundred Ooze squadron goes before the Tarrasque and distracts him until Oozopholous gets off a quickened/hieghtened/silenced/stilled Disentegrate spell, followed by a bated-breath, well awaited, and(some speculate here) prophesied Wish-a-Tarrasque-begone spell. If this happens, Ooze all the way. If not, Tarrasque has got my millions. |
| Aion Khonsu05-12-05, 09:42 PM | Meepo says he's for the people, but if he really stood for the people what was he doing taking money from this character? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/the_ghost/spoofs/bribedkobold.jpg Is this the candidate you want to represent you? Badger is honest and has never taken bribes nor sought personal gain. This year, make the right choice. Vote Badger. paid for by the Vote for Badger Council |
| DarkMonkey05-12-05, 10:29 PM | See this is what wizards should actually do. After the Cube wins the whole thing (like we all know it will :D ) they should build an adventure around it. However first they should jack up the cubes CR to that of the tarrasque and add a few features. I dont care what you say about Mr T, A collosal cube that is still hard to see but is slowly moving towards your city, about to engulf the entire thing whole, is the scariest thing I have ever imagined. :schemes: if they dont do it...i will hehehe |
| Grynn05-12-05, 11:38 PM | Meepo says he's for the people, but if he really stood for the people what was he doing taking money from this character? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/the_ghost/spoofs/bribedkobold.jpg Is this the candidate you want to represent you? Badger is honest and has never taken bribes nor sought personal gain. This year, make the right choice. Vote Badger. paid for by the Vote for Badger Council Meepo wasn't taking that money. He was giving it to that poor man, to help him clean up his act. Meepo is a charitable man (kobold). His father was a poor, hardworking miner. Meepo knows how hard it can be to make a living these days. And he knows that all everybody needs is a chance. |
| tomismore05-12-05, 11:57 PM | Ah, but you forget that badgers lack the intelligence to accept bribes or double cross anyone. Alway remember that the safest and most honorable are also the stupidest. |
| Scaly One05-13-05, 03:41 AM | Missstresss likess Tarrrrasssque, but me wana know if the jelly thing evolvesss in diferent ssshapesss, like d4 or d8... Missstresss alssso likesss half-dragonsss, pity no cromatic onesss. The half-naga may fit. But it materrrsss none, cause Meepo winsss thisss one! Meepo isss the grreetessst, before Missstresss... |
| Santrilla05-13-05, 07:13 AM | You wouldn't believe it, but there is a monestary of Intelligent Oozes that has developed strategies to take on the entire world. It does require that an enlightened Ooze (Ooza as they like to differentiate themselves) be created every day for a year, and that a years worth of Red Wizard trained oozes(those that survive the trials of Red Wizard-dom) create a Wizard's Circle around the Grand-daddy of Ooze's (Epic Red Wizard of Necromancy, anonymous sidekick to Szass Tam, Oozopholous the Paterfamilious, Enlightened Gelatinous Cube of all Cubes- even Rubik's). After an Epic Red Wizard Circle Jamboree is completed. The Grandpa of the Oozes goes on a 24 hour hunt for the Big Guy. Through scrying and teleportation, a hundred Ooze squadron goes before the Tarrasque and distracts him until Oozopholous gets off a quickened/hieghtened/silenced/stilled Disentegrate spell, followed by a bated-breath, well awaited, and(some speculate here) prophesied Wish-a-Tarrasque-begone spell. If this happens, Ooze all the way. If not, Tarrasque has got my millions. How, exactly, do you put Red Wizard tattoos on a gelatinous cube? |
| AthasianDirge05-13-05, 07:29 AM | Gotta go Tarrasque. I mean, c'mon.. It's the Tarrasque. Only the coolest monster never used! I'm proud to say that I NEVER had a campaign where it was appropriate to fight a Tarrasque. Thusly, coolest. monster. ever. :P |
| TellerofTruths05-13-05, 07:31 AM | But wait, is the Meepo giving a bribe so the shady character will vote for him? Tarrasque wouldnt do that, if they didn't vote for him, he would eat them. |
| TellerofTruths05-13-05, 07:41 AM | Tarrasque will be the champion!!!!! :w00t: :w00t: :dancin: :dancin: :bow: :bow: :bow: To Tarrasque :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: Tarrasque!!! |
| koboldlord05-13-05, 08:08 AM | We all know that the Cube deserves to win. He's just so much, cubier. Plus he's not french. Also, the cube that we're voting for is THE cube that went around eating staff members! How cool is that? Also, what if for the adventure, it turns out that by eating so many people, the cube has gained sentience! How cool would that be? |
| Hufish05-13-05, 08:38 AM | How, exactly, do you put Red Wizard tattoos on a gelatinous cube? Food Coloring. :dancin: |
| Ezrayah05-13-05, 09:09 AM | I voted Cube. Why? because... well, It's a gelatinous cube. Not even a Tarrasque can beat the look on a player's face when something goes "Gloup..." in a shady corner. (Not to mention the creative solutions some of 'my' players bring up to free an item from a gelatinous cube... I've heard Soap mentioned, as well as summoning a squid on top of it... That and more.) Still, I believe it'll have a hard time beating Meepo. Never-Ever-Ever underestimate a lone kobold. |
| gutterball05-13-05, 09:33 AM | Gelatinous Cube is essentially Jello...I prefer Tarrasque pie for dessert. ;) |
| Diefreak05-13-05, 10:18 AM | ok here's how it goes and play for real tarra is naturally tough and god like where's a cube you have to add all these templetes and the cube's toast if you got a driud or a magic-user or if you got pints of oil wheres tarra you need a wish spell not to mantion 500 hp madness and crazy stats and tarra deserves an adventure while the cubes got enough attantion and remeber that if your afraid of a cube your a ***** ( i'm a level 7th wizard so i don't care ) where's a tarraque is something of epic preportions that scare dragons and gods alike VOTE TARRAQUE ! |
| Diefreak05-13-05, 10:20 AM | tarraque Shall Own All |
| Timeshaper05-13-05, 10:58 AM | Well, eehm... I chose the eeehmm... the Tarrasque, just because, like.... you know? The things he does and has done in his form of precarnation and stuff, and eehm... the angles are just about right. Much of the things like that... eehmm.... made choose the Tarrasque, you know? |
| Haer'dalis05-13-05, 11:20 AM | Meaning he threatened to eat you unless you voted for him? :) Same here, but then again...I'd do that even if he didn't :D P.S. Meepo can't win...he's a poor excuse for a kobold :P Go succubus :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: |
| Chazmon05-13-05, 12:31 PM | Rampaging hordes of Tarrasque all the way Krie Krie i hope at least one person gets this joke ultimatly the cube is well unoriginal, i mean its as if the designers were sitting round, one of them had a rubix cube... and it all went downhill from there |
| havershame_swordflinger05-13-05, 12:56 PM | Meepo wasn't taking that money. He was giving it to that poor man, to help him clean up his act. Meepo is a charitable man (kobold). His father was a poor, hardworking miner. Meepo knows how hard it can be to make a living these days. And he knows that all everybody needs is a chance. :surrender I am coming forward to say that I am the man pictured, and i am not giving Meepo money he was paying me. Yes, I was hired to "take care of a badger problem" and I am know willing to work with athorites to resolve this issue. I say know that I assumed that this was simply an animale controle issue and had no idea that it was a political assassination. I appoliges and surrender. :nonono: |
| The Tarrasque05-13-05, 01:12 PM | Tarrasque Like Jello! http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/monster_poll_tarrasque.jpg |
| szarkel05-13-05, 05:14 PM | Everyone knows the Gelatinous Cube will win because there is always room for Gello |
| bloody_dagger8705-13-05, 05:34 PM | Oh this is too easy... I mean, come on people. How many times have we all run into a Gellatinous cube? I think we've all lost count. Now The Tarrasque, if we were to ever come across it, would we really want to kill it if we were able to? No, it's godlyness is just too awesome. Now, the one thing that makes a good creature is it's ability to think. With the cube's intelligence of nil, it's runnin' on one thought. Eat. The Tarresque, that thing can think. sure it's intelligence isn't that great, but it has instinct and brute strength to fall back on. I vote The Tarresque. green jello is no match for legends. Oh, and on a side note. SCREW MEEPO!! Come on, all you people who trusted him in the Sunless Citadel because he was "just so cute!", remember how he screwed us over? Dire Badger all the way! And let it eat his twisty hide! Later days all! - Bloody Dagger |
| Ganurath05-13-05, 05:38 PM | This is like a competition between a wrecking ball and a vat of acid. Tarrasque, wrecking ball, bashes the gelatinous cube, vat of acid, to bits. It comes out with minor acid burns, but is more than ready pancake the upcoming Marilith Dervish. |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-13-05, 06:52 PM | Oh, and on a side note. SCREW MEEPO!! ... YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| nekrolog05-13-05, 09:19 PM | Oh, and on a side note. SCREW MEEPO!! Come on, all you people who trusted him in the Sunless Citadel because he was "just so cute!", remember how he screwed us over? Dire Badger all the way! And let it eat his twisty hide! If he shows up in another adventure, we get our chance for revenge. Of course if he's advanced to 20th level ninja, I take that back. |
| tomismore05-13-05, 10:59 PM | I said it once and I'll say it again. You just can't trust something intelligent. Now, celestial dire badgers, who are divinely righteous and altruistic in the first place, are also too close to stupid to plot anything more complex or clever than "Accept money from man. Eat man. Spend money." I mean, right there is proof! Always trust someone whose philosophy is to eat the bad guy and take the money. They're driven by greed, but have decided that the best way of earning undeserved money is to just turn in the briber, after having emptied his purse. Also, as afore-stated, anything celestial is a good thing, right? It would be like having an angelic President of the United States. (I sometimes wonder whether we've got the opposite.) Finally, dire badgers are known for their continued drive, perseverence, and... uh... strong, ripping, tearing, incisors. Don't tell me you wouldn't love to have a ruler like that! GO BADGER! Methinks badger make good winner. YEEHA! |
| tomismore05-13-05, 11:14 PM | The following is the saga of a gelatinous cube and a tarrasque meeting in the street. For the purpose of the story, we have assumed that both creatures, have limited speaking capabilities. Cube: Gloop gloop gloop. Oh I do so love glooping along this country road, absorbing peasants, carts, horses... and giant, scaly, clawed feet. Tarrasque: EWW! GET OFF MY FOOT! Cube: MMM! Tastes like chicken! Tarrasque: You have 5 seconds to stop eating my foot. Cube: Yum yum yum! Tarrasque: 4... Cube: Now it tastes like venison! Tarrasque: 3... Cube: La de dah! This IS delicious! Tarrasque 2...! Cube: Ooh! Now I'm lifting into the air! I wonder why! Tarrasque: 1...! Cube: Oh well, all I care about is this delicious large foot. Tarrasque: 0!!! Cube: SPLAT! Tarrasque: Yuck. Now to continue ravaging the countryside. THE END! |
| tomismore05-13-05, 11:18 PM | Oh this is too easy... I mean, come on people. How many times have we all run into a Gellatinous cube? I think we've all lost count. Now The Tarrasque, if we were to ever come across it, would we really want to kill it if we were able to? No, it's godlyness is just too awesome. Now, the one thing that makes a good creature is it's ability to think. With the cube's intelligence of nil, it's runnin' on one thought. Eat. The Tarresque, that thing can think. sure it's intelligence isn't that great, but it has instinct and brute strength to fall back on. I vote The Tarresque. green jello is no match for legends. - Bloody Dagger My story simply illustrates the important fact submitted above: GelCubeBrainCapacity = Null except for EAT EAT EAT... or absorb absorb absorb. The Tarrasque could use the GelCube for spiking his hair (if he had any.) |
| bloody_dagger8705-14-05, 12:06 AM | Glad there are people who agree with me! Now, to all those who have meet a Gellatinous Cube in battle; What have they done to us? Stolen our weapons and armor is what! Eatten our friends, and stollen our treasure from infront of us for Pete's sake! And we can't do didly about that, because they're acid. However, the Tarresque hasn't done much. Sure, a village now and then, but it's always farms, and it's not that often. We can think of it as population control! And he doesn't steal our treasure, it's laying around for us to take! Along with weapons from the shops he, she, it, destroys! So as an ending note, the Tarresque is our friend, a powerful ally against the treasure eating lime jello mold. Peace out! -Bloody Dagger |
| Dunther the Great05-14-05, 12:36 AM | I have come to the conclusion that a fight between the Tarrasque and the Gelatinous Cube would in fact be a stalemate. Quite simply when the Tarrasque would try the eat the cube it would most likly inhale it like little kids do with jello. Meanwhile, the cube engulfs most of the Tarrasque's face melting and absobing it fast enough to compensate for what's lost from the Tarrasque eating it. Tarrasque's face just as rapidly regenerates from the injested cube. Thus, each is in a perpetual state of eating and regenerating and both are content, the world is saved :D . |
| TellerofTruths05-14-05, 07:27 AM | No,No Tarrasque would win. Hands down ( :bow: ). Yeah...Yeah. Yup he/she would win. (The Tarrasque not the pansy cube). |
| koboldlord05-14-05, 08:43 AM | Okay, here is yet another way that that battle could go: Tarrasque swallows cube, cube absorbs Tarrasque's stomach acids. Tarrasques eats something. Cube eats it. Tarrasque eventually dies of starvation... |
| Dragoloth05-14-05, 09:08 AM | TARRASQUE all the way.Give it the Legendary template from MMII. |
| Santrilla05-14-05, 09:19 AM | Everyone seems to be forgetting that this is NOT about an actual battle between the Cube and the 'Rasque. It's about which is cooler. Who cares if the Tarrasque could stomp the Cube into a pulp without breaking a sweat? Generic Orc Number 412 from the Two Towers film could just sit on Yoda and he'd die, but we all know that Yoda is cooler. Think outside the box, people. |
| bloody_dagger8705-14-05, 10:16 AM | The above is only partially true. Yes, this is about which is cooler, but in order to decide which is cooler, we have to know which would win! We have all pretty much decided that the Tarresque rules Faerun, and that the lime jello is just a dessert, a dungeon nuisance, and a treasure thief. Now, I leave you, my friends, with this to ponder: Do we, the D&D Peoples, REALLY want to vote for a big hunk of snot? |
| tomismore05-14-05, 12:23 PM | Here here. And I personally think that the celestial dire badger is THE coolest monster around. Okay okay... the warforged ninja is pretty dang awesome. But STILL! |
| Lyinginbedmon05-14-05, 12:44 PM | I'm all for mechanised shinobi slitting my throat before I even hear their gears whirring, but right now, :D TARRASQUE (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG240.jpg) WILL SQUASH THE FREAKISH HULK OF ACIDIC SCIENCE-CLASS PROTOPLASM (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG201.jpg)!!! :D |
| szarkel05-14-05, 05:07 PM | Yeah, that Tarrasque, slumbering for all those months. What is cube doing. Wreaking true havok. The cube never sleeps it only moves forward counsuming. I'll vote for Meepo when Mindflayers hung Githzerai!! |
| Ohtar Turinson05-14-05, 05:51 PM | I'm not here to fight the Tarrasque ... It smells so bad I cant get close enough to fight it ... Vote For Me! ... I smell like lemmons.] How would you know? You don't have a nose. |
| daimyotx05-14-05, 09:46 PM | here's my twisted reasoning. The tarrasque would pretty much MOW through a single one-on-one confrontation with everything in the list. Now where's the fun in that? So I gotta go with da cube. Makes life more interesting when you DON'T know who's gonna win. Tarrasque gets voted off my island. (mainly cause I don't want it to eat ME) |
| feartheinvinceblehamster05-14-05, 10:39 PM | my votes are going to be: 1st week: gelatinous cubic block 2nd week: this is hard, but my vote will go to lady bestine 3rd week: warforged ninja 4th week: hard one, but i pick jannys 5th week: Gynerstympos, belkars never get used 6th week: stone giant paladin, half-celestial unicorns are overused 7th week: succubus paladin 8th week: MEEPO!!!! |
| Brastan05-15-05, 02:43 AM | I was going to vote for the Tarrasque but then I remembered a high-level game were my party was wandering around in a maze. I spotted a Gelatinous Cube blocking the way. The celling was 50+ feet high so our rogue deiced he would climb over it, using it as the climbing surface. (Not the greatest brains on that character) Needless to say he got stuck in it. Now this would be just irritating but our jumping monk came up with a better way to pass, he jumped through it or tried to. The player figured that his speed would carry him through, no. He got stuck. So now we have 2 characters stuck in the cube and they have lost all of their items(amulets, rings, cloths!). What a great day :rolleye2:. Oh I'm not do yet. Now you'd figure with two characters stuck that the rest of use would grow brains and figure out a better idea. Nope, I was next. My character had the ability to Dimensional Door 1/day as a spell like ability. I figured I'd jump in there and DD out with my comrades. I forgot that I need to actually be able to activate my SP ability by voice. So the party now has 3 out of 5 members stuck in a beefed up(increased HD) Gelatinous Cube. The final remedy was for the party wizard to blast the cube with spells. This killed the rogue and monk and left my character on deaths door. So a Gelatinous Cube, which never moved the whole encounter, managed to kill 2 out of 5 PCs and greatly injured a 3rd, and destroyed many valuable magic items. In conclusion the Gelatinous Cube, though slow and stupid, can do far more damage to a high level party than the Tarrasque could. Vote for the Cube, it wins by making it's opponents act like idiots. :banghead: |
| veekie05-15-05, 03:36 AM | Is anyone even looking at anything but Big T and Jello? Can you imagine what would happen if you took a Marilith, added Fang of Lolth and capped it off with dervish? Speed Blender. |
| tec-goblin05-15-05, 04:36 AM | Gelatinous Cube! It's an underdog, so it's cool - tarrasque is just a big nasty monster with no serious background. Gelatinous cube is the perfect thing to throw to an inattentive adventurer. Of course, the joke about "a herd of tarrasques" gives some points to tarrasque... |
| bloody_dagger8705-15-05, 10:33 AM | Of course, the joke about "a herd of tarrasques" gives some points to tarrasque... Herd of Tarrasques? Oh you poor, poor person... That joke wouldn't give ANY points at all to the Tarresque! Well, not unless you tell us ALL the joke, instead of leaving us with what appears to be the dumbest statement of all history. I think everybody who has had time and patience to read the Monsters Manual (any version) knows that there is only ONE Tarrasque. Which is why it rules. Legends, baby...It's all about the legends. -Bloody Dagger |
| bloody_dagger8705-15-05, 10:39 AM | For all those watching the boards, tomorrow is the final day. Who will come out on top?? dun dun DUUUN! |
| Haer'dalis05-15-05, 11:39 AM | That's so tr00. I decided to make Gello eat my cookies so that I could vote for Mr T one more time ;p Guess the acidic cube can come in handy after all :D |
| Ectoplasmoid05-15-05, 12:10 PM | "I'm a pineapple chunk!" (http://www.giantitp.com/GuestStrips.html) Second comic down. |
| bloody_dagger8705-15-05, 01:28 PM | So a Gelatinous Cube, which never moved the whole encounter, managed to kill 2 out of 5 PCs and greatly injured a 3rd, and destroyed many valuable magic items. In conclusion the Gelatinous Cube, though slow and stupid, can do far more damage to a high level party than the Tarrasque could This, my friend, is not true. The Gellatinous cube never killed your party, only incapacitated them. Your idiot wizard friend killed them, not the Jello. If he had only used a torch to dry up the cube, your friends would still be alive. However, he decided to waste his magic and blast it and your friends into oblivion. Next time you game, kick him in the nuts and thank him for loosing you two friends. Oh, and may I point out that the Jello stole your comrade's jewelry, weapons, money AND clothes. They died in nude shame. -Bloody Dagger |
| Light Dragon05-15-05, 02:40 PM | Honestly, in regards to someone who commented that all the dungeon masters liked Gelatinous Cubes and that the players wanted to fight the tarrasque, and therefore since it was harder to use- the tarrasque should win... I completely disagree with his conclusion. The mere fact that Dungeon Masters (generally people who have more experience) prefer the gelatinous cube shows that it is more versatile and fun. They know how to use it, and can use it in many ways- whereas the Tarrasque is just a useless vanilla monster. Honestly, I never knew what a Tarrasque was until I read this thread, and I've DMed for ages. My parties never even mentioned one once and I always seemed to skip over it in the Monster Manual because it never interested me. Heckatenchari however, are something to be feared CR 55. Whenever I need to scare my party, I stick one of them in- and they're not vanilla- they're a whirling dervish of 1000's of tiny little demons brandishing swords. If that's not inventive, I don't know what is. The Tarrasque- well, that's just an overgrown waste of CR. Not inspired at all. The Cube- Versatile. Use it as a trap, as a collossal size. As a tiny size that grows, as a cleanser, as a servant, as an enemy, etc. |
| siriusranger8705-15-05, 02:55 PM | think outside the gello box go with tarrasque DMs use the cube all the time they can think of cool ways to use them we dont need WoTC to think of another one for use we need a cool adventure with the tarrasque if your DM uses cubes all the time your players are probably sick of them and would love to fight something new like the tarrasque |
| bloody_dagger8705-15-05, 03:47 PM | I agree with this. We've all gotten bored with the cube. And they are NOT good blockades. One torch takes down the whole thing, reducing it to a solfied, week old plate-sized hunk of snot. Idiot! Goh... -Bloody Dagger, Voodoo Inc. |
| Davian05-15-05, 04:07 PM | Here's another vote for the Tarrasque: the perfect engine of destruction! |
| CycloneRanger05-15-05, 07:31 PM | I vote for the cube. The torrasque (or is it tarrasque in D&D?) is just rather cheesy. It seems that some newb DM wanted to make a super-monster. Twink: OOOHHH!! I am the DM! I can make a monster to kill you! Twink: I'll give it... +50 to hit! And regeneration... no... regeneration 40! And nothing can beat it!. Bwahaha! Players: Uhm... Twink: And you can't kill it with death spells either! And it reflects magic! And... Anyway, that is how I view the tarrasque. Vote Cube all the way. |
| darktemplar5105-15-05, 07:42 PM | You have to admit - for all the talk going on about advancing the cube to challenge big T, there is no talk about advancing Big T to challenge an entire plane of exsistance. I can see it now - a paragon, psudonatural, spellwarped, winged, multiheaded (29 hextra heads! go collossal size!), insectile, courupted, psionic tarrasque of legend:eek: - easily able to deal with any party (CR 63 tends to do that). the constitution of 136 and 4080 HP doesn't hurt either. :plotting: On another note, Meepo is smart enough to not eat people who vote for him - no matter how celestial a dire badger is, it is still a dire badger, and it needs to eat ALOT of food each day. besides, how on earth could a badger star in a module? The way I see it it comes down as follows: week1 - Big T vs. Cube - Big T wins (dessert, anyone?) week2 - Dervish vs. Bestine - Dervish wins (6+ con damage/rd? 1/2 gold dies fast) week 3 - Ellith'rin vs. Ninja - Ninja Wins (never sleeping stealth warrior. Coup de Grace SA wins) week4 - Jannys vs. pirate - Jannys wins (immunity to magic creature that ressurects owner? :eek: ) week5 - Troll vs. Gryner - Gryner wins (immunity to damage doesn't stop level drain, and it's hard to hit something that's inside you) week6 - Unicorn vs. Paladin - Paladin wins (ranged attacks win vs. melee units) week7 - Illithiad vs. paladin - Illithiad wins (Psions win against almost anything) week8 - Badger vs. Meepo - Meepo Wins (Meepo was the keeper of dragons. dragons are tougher than badgers, so Meepo wins by default) week9 - Big T vs. Dervish - Big T wins (immunity to ability damage goes a LONG way) week10 - Ninja vs. Jannys - Jannys wins (Neither sleep, but one casts spells and has an Iron Golem body guard) week11 - Gryner vs. Paladin - Gryner wins (once again, level drain from the inside proves difficult to defeat) week12 - Illithiad vs. Meepo - Meepo wins (Kobold brains taste AWFUL :yuck: ) week13 - Big T Vs. Jannys - Jannys wins (Big T can only be brought low by wish, and Jannys wouldn't be much of a wizard if she didn't pack it) week14 - Gryner vs. Meepo - Meepo Wins (kobold innards are so disgusting that gryner kills himself to stop the nausia) week15 - last match - Meepo vs. Jannys - Meepo wins (eventurally) (Jannys sees kobold. "how nice - a new slave to clean my golem" Meepo accidentally spills cleaning fluid on phylactery. Meepo wonders where his new boss went, and why this golem is acting so strange) Victory goes to: MEEPO :bow: |
| bloody_dagger8705-15-05, 08:43 PM | Victory for Meepo? Don't make me laugh. There are thousands, Nay! MILLIONS of people who got screwed over by the little imp, and will not vote for him. Do the Ayes have it? Aye, they do... -Bloody Dagger |
| Blizman1305-15-05, 09:48 PM | In regards to the first match-up: Who would you rather see in an adventure module? I have to give the gelatinous cube points for being way cool and original, but putting one in an adventure... ehh, it's been done. I voted for Tarrasque, no questions asked. Heh heh, that rhymed! :banghead: God, I'm an idiot. |
| feartheinvinceblehamster05-15-05, 10:10 PM | look, i highly doubt that the tarrasque will win |
| Airsucker05-15-05, 10:12 PM | Well, I won't get through this entire thread tonight (I'm catching up after having a broken modem for a while), but I will contribute. Go Meepo! As for this week, who wouldn't want an adventure where you can use Jell-o jigglers with vodka in them for the mini? :D "You slew the horde of cubes, enjoy!" |
| Noc Rat05-15-05, 10:28 PM | Da Cubz are always fun to put in an adventure. All that acid, slow movement, crit immune and total lack of a central nervous system always makes for a fun monster to find in any room or environment. Yes, the tarrasque IS overpowered, but I guess that's the reason behind it. To me, the T-rasque is the perfect rite of passage for high level characters who are just about to reach their epic levels. Heck, I believe the tarrasque is immortal BECAUSE of that reason, to serve as the gateway to epicness. So, since every character who's itching to go and stomp some chichimecs HAS to fight ol' 'Rasky before they can get into Club "Higher than 20", he was made to be unstoppable. "So, what you wanna do now, 30th level Paladin??" "Dunno, Mr. Epic Wizard. I know, let's go beat the Tarrasque again and again until some new demigod unleashes a Chichimec" Tarrasque: Always there for you. |
| Epicfetus05-16-05, 01:56 AM | Sure, if you're the type of guy that Drives an SUV (or wants to), and has something he needs to prove, Tarrasque is your man. But what is he, really? Coloosal. Virtually Industructable. Immune to Everything except "Derek "The Dyslexic" Munsford's Big Pit o'Acid"* and WISH...yes, you need a WISH to kill it...it's just...overkill. Plane and simple. Not very interesting. For those of us who drive medium sized, non-expensive, everyday Cars and prefer iyt that way, the choice is obvious: The Cube. Will the Cube win in the end? Probably not. But the cube is simple, easy to implement, and just one of those "why?" type creatures...but in a good way (unlike the Succubus Paladin, which is "why" in a bad way). In spite of it's remarkable resemplance to a $240 order of Jell-er, "Gelatin", the Cube is just, well...the cube. Is it my favorite? I dunno, but it's not screaming "making up for something" like the Tarrasque...and besides, clear jello? hells yeah! |
| Ambian Eagleheart05-16-05, 02:26 AM | Go the Cube, The mighty all conquering cube! Yep that Tarrasque sure is something Heh. I mean Damage Reduction, Regeneration you name it its got it and that is part of its problem. How many creatures do you know have special notes about their use. This is to prevent a foolish DM from overusing them and ruining the game.(They 'hibernate' between rampages as shown in the Monster Manual) I think that the reason that the Tarrasque was included was allow a DM to shut up a smarty pants party by having them all killed and eaten (I can personally recomend not getting eaten- it is next to impossible to cause the 25 points damage with a small weapon to cut your way out. So next time I have to fight one I'll just find my nearest artifact/relic- I really should find where I've lost that Hand of Vecna. What I'm trying to say is that by the time a DM is ready to throw one at you, you are approaching Epic Level I have a 31st level Wemic Ranger (Str 30) who could keep a Tarrasque as a pet (he arm wrestled a Gold Dragon once). Have a look in the Epic level book for some real terrifying creatures. As a DM the Tarrasque is boring. The ground can only heave a certain way and the earthquake that follows is just as predictable and out of the ground rears.....well its not going to be a sprite is it. The Cube can be a terrifying opponent if not overdone. Surprisingly lethal against low level characters, a Cube is the DM's best friend. A 4th level party were encountered by a skeleton in a hallway. The Cleric nearly died of shock when his 'turning' attempt failed. The Cube had nearly engulfed them before somebody passed the spot check. It was priceless. |
| Brandir05-16-05, 06:05 AM | It has to be the Cube as it is the archetypal monster on the entire list. It brings back fond memories of my first adventure using Basic D&D many moons ago. |
| newatreides05-16-05, 07:52 AM | A half-dragon/PIXIE?!! Please tell me this is only a space filler. Why would any respectable gold dragon mate with a pixie? I'm human(sort of) and I shudder at the very thought. To think of something like a dragon... :twitch: Thank god for shapeshifting. :P Anyway, I'm voting for the dervish. Why? Because I like the word "dervish". No clue what it means. BTW, a note to wizards: next time, how about some more regular monsters? ""Jannys Shadowgaunt" Female Drow Lich/Greater Iron Golem"? These sound like the titles of some college thesis, not a creature. At least make them something a little less... I dunno, REALISTIC? I know this is a fantasy game, but please, at least next time include some regular monsters. |
| Diefreak05-16-05, 10:02 AM | Don't you get it the tarraque is invincible becouse 1.you need wish to kill him where's a cube can like my nuts as i have plenty of oil pints and flint and steel 2.tarraque regenerates faster the the cube's acid can deal damage so there we have it........cube for desert and the acid will do nothing 3. YOU NEED A WISH SPELL TO KILL A TARRAQUE AND A good dm WILL SCREW YOU OVER WITH THE WORDING "i want tarra not to be alive any more" ok now you have to fight an undead tarraque...... 4.FOR ALL THAT'S HOLY AND UNHOLY TARRAQUE NEEDS AN ADVENTURE 5.the cube is over used and typicaly.....the cube can't kill any one simply becouse there are stupid people in this world that do dumb things like that wizard.....DU DU I'L HIT THE CUBE AND MY FRIENDS WITH FIREBALL DU DU 5.Tarraque can scare gods/demi-gods/and dragons and walk away. 6.Tarraque can eat characters just like the cube can only you take alot more damage LAST BUT NOT LEAST....7.tarraques CAN take a hit of fire and every one should have fire where's who has a wish? TARRASQUE WILL OWN ALL VOTE TARRASQUE 05 ad by a monster manual book worm guy |
| Seppuku_Squirrels05-16-05, 03:06 PM | you don't care what the module is that WotC places the winning monster into. It's hard to imagine any module where you couldn't throw in the cube and have the module largely unaffected. Heck, throw one into all of them and get your cube fixation out of the closet. I would rather see something creative come out of this contest. All lot of people seem to be under the impression that having the Tarrasque in a module means that goal is to try to kill it. Maybe the goal will be something as important as not waking it up! |
| tarrasqueDM12305-16-05, 06:42 PM | Down with cube! :mad: Vote for tarrasque or it will KILL you :schemes: Sorry about that I just really hate the cube.I mean seriously an AC of 3 :OMG! what`s the point of even rolling the attack!? So maybe it can engulf guys but really why do that when a tarrasque can splatter a guy under one toe? Let`s compare the two. Cube:AC 3 HD 4d10+32(54) Slam+1melee Tarrasque:AC 35 48d10+594(858) Bite+57melee So the bottom line is if the Tarrasque fought a cube let`s just say it would be raining Protoplasm for a while.(The gelatinous cube gets slaughtered!) So I hope you go and vote for the Tarrasque RIGHT NOW (if you haven`t already) And for you cube lovers: IT`ll hunt you down! Bye! P.S.Vote for the TARRASQUE! P.P.S.DIE Cube :fight!: |
| Nyat05-16-05, 08:53 PM | Well, I personally want to see multiple winners just because I want to see how Wizards would put some of them in an adventure Tarrasque: I'd like to see this used in an interesting way in a mid-level campaign, one where the goal isn't to kill it. Something like avoiding it, or even having to outrun it could make for a very tense session.:thumbsup: Gelatinous Cube: This thing will be put into adventures without the contest, IMHO if it wins the contest will have just been a waste (Note: I am not questioning the worth of the Cube, I just dont think it would add any kind of flair to an adventure). :thumbsdow "Lady Bestine" Half-Gold Dragon/Pixie: Sorry, but I'm just not much of a fan of pixies, especially not half-dragon ones. :thumbsdow Marilith Dervish: That sounds downright vicious, but meh, doesnt catch my interest. :thumbsdow "Ellith'rin" Half-Amethyst Dragon/Iridescent Naga: Once again it just doesn't catch my interest (and I dont like Nagas for some reason). :thumbsdow Warforged Ninja: I'm somewhat of a Ninja-fanboy and I would be happy to see Ninjas in any adventure. That and the idea of a robo-ninja in DnD makes me giggle.:thumbsup: "Jannys Shadowgaunt" Female Drow Lich/Greater Iron Golem: Before I read the description I got confused at how something can be a Drow Lich/Greater Iron Golem. After I read the discription I thought it was interesting, but I don't really care for it. :thumbsdow "Xxerlflyyn" Beholder Swashbuckler: This I would love to see, it has an eye patch and a zombie parrot! Can you just imagine a beholder talking in pirate-speach? And how does it use a rapier?:thumbsup: Troll Frenzied Berserker:Notice the bold :thumbsdow "Grynerstempos" Advanced Belkar Soul Eater, Half-Celestial Unicorn, and Male Stone Giant Paladin: All of these guys are kind of meh to me. Aka I just dont really have any interest in these guys. :thumbsdow Succubus Paladin: I want to see this in an adventure just so I may ask the question "How the Hell?" (or possibly "How in the Abyss") That and how can you not want a succubus?:thumbsup: "Shuluth" Mind Flayer: Gotta love the mind flayers.:thumbsup: Celestial Dire Badger: *sigh* at least its not one of the Gnome dire were-moles from Shining South. :thumbsdow "Meepo" Kobold: Its Meepo for crying out loud! :thumbsup: |
| reaperofnazgul05-16-05, 09:54 PM | OH! I CAN'T STAND THE SUSPENSE and how many times i voted is not important |
| Scaly One05-17-05, 03:21 AM | Me thinksss: if the d6 can be ssswalowed by T'sss, d6 can live in T'sss belly. T' mussst eat, d6 mussst eat, 'rasssque eatsss, and jelly thing eatsss two. Jelly thing preventsss T grow too fat and T protectsss jelly d6. :) It'sss gone now, move forward... Missstresss likesss dragonsss, even half-ones, but Missstresss and me dissslikesss good things. Missstress dissslikesss demonsss, but marilith hasss ssskalesss like me, and marilith is evil. Me votesss for marilith, but Meepo will prevail in the end. |
| newatreides05-17-05, 08:16 AM | Heckatenchari however, are something to be feared CR 55. Whenever I need to scare my party, I stick one of them in- and they're not vanilla- they're a whirling dervish of 1000's of tiny little demons brandishing swords. If that's not inventive, I don't know what is. Okay, wow. This is so full of mistakes. 1: Correct spelling is Hecatoncheires. 2: Hecatoncheires are the offspring of GODS! And not just any deities, proto-deities, created at the very beginning of time. They're sealed away by the gods, and rarely released, and even then only to take down gods. You can't just stick one in for the sake of scaring your party. That's like a random encounter with a Xixecal... :twitch: 3: What the heck does everyone mean by "vanilla"? I happen to like vanilla. Not as much as peppermint, but still... 4: They are not whirling dervishes. And they're rather slow, and it's not thousands, Hecatoncheires are the "HUNDRED-handed ones." And as for the scores of demons, it's one creature. 5: Inventive, huh? I just thought I'd point out that they are leftovers of when the world was just being created and there was no set boundaries for living things(despite the fact that stranger things are still being bred and/or created through magic), so the gods(AKA The Writers) could be a lot more inventive than a creature with a hundred hands. :schemes: 6. They're epic. Although there are certain circumstances in which one may expect to encounter one, it would almost always be expected. 7. "Few creatures can stand up to a Hecatoncheires in combat, not even the gods." These are very impressive the first time you encounter them, but after that, they get old quick. DM: "You encounter a giant creature, wielding a hundred swords..." Player: "Can't you just call it by it's name by now? I mean, we've saved the world from more hecatoncheires than they have hands!" DM: "Ummm, it's a paragon hecatoncheires!" Seriously, have some common sense. 8: CR 57. Though that may have changed, as I'm operating from V3 :rant: Sorry, just really bugged me. Just needed to point that out. If you find me offensive, I'll delete or edit this post. BTW, look at the picture. Can someone tell me how, with "feet" like those, it can have a speed of 100? PS. If the only one I needed to consult my book for was number 8(even knew the spelling), does that mean I need a life? |
| Cardinal Teplin05-17-05, 08:52 AM | 3: What the heck does everyone mean by "vanilla"? I happen to like vanilla. Not as much as peppermint, but still... Plain, or unadorned. Everyone likes vanilla, that's why it gets used as a base flavour for so many things. It's rarely a favourite. A vanilla monster would be something like a beholder. A non-vanilla monster would be something like a Beholder Swashbuckler. Non-vanilla is not necessarily better, but it is generally more unusual. In general terms in adventure design there is always the pull between trying to make everything as 'flavourful' as possible, and having every monster with enough bells and whistles to fill several pages, and keeping things vanilla, which is not only simpler to run, but also means the adventure will fit into more people's campagins. More controvertially, there is the idea that simpler monsters lead to better adventure design, or that complicated monsters lead to confusion and lack of elegence. You get the same ideas in cookery and architecture... My general feel is that adventures are better with more complicated adversaries, until you reach the point where the adventure/encounter is basically a showcase for the creature's unique combination of talents. If I don't like the creature, I can slot in something vanilla instead. That said, I've found that halfdragon willow-the-wisp ghosts, while fun to read about, rarely add to the fun in play. 5: Inventive, huh? I just thought I'd point out that they are leftovers of when the world was just being created and there was no set boundaries for living things(despite the fact that stranger things are still being bred and/or created through magic), so the gods(AKA The Writers) could be a lot more inventive than a creature with a hundred hands. :schemes: They could do, but then since the hundred-handed ones are monsters from Greek mythology, they probably thought they shouldn't change them from the existing myth - which by and large they didn't. That's also why they have the high speed - another detail from the original Greek myth. PS. If the only one I needed to consult my book for was number 8(even knew the spelling), does that mean I need a life? Of course you need a life. You're posting here aren't you? :-) It's good you know your stuff, but around here it isn't all that unusual. |
| Cardinal Teplin05-17-05, 08:58 AM | Actually what I'd like to see is a minature cube as a familiar for a geometer. |
| Haer'dalis05-17-05, 09:33 AM | Weren't they supposed to post the results today? I want to see who won!! |
| Wayward Son05-17-05, 09:36 AM | Weren't they supposed to post the results today? I want to see who won!! Give them a few minutes, will ya? As of this writing, it's only 6:36 AM at the WotC offices. |
| KoboldSlayer05-17-05, 10:08 AM | Honestly, in regards to someone who commented that all the dungeon masters liked Gelatinous Cubes and that the players wanted to fight the tarrasque, and therefore since it was harder to use- the tarrasque should win... I completely disagree with his conclusion. The mere fact that Dungeon Masters (generally people who have more experience) prefer the gelatinous cube shows that it is more versatile and fun. They know how to use it, and can use it in many ways- whereas the Tarrasque is just a useless vanilla monster. I would have to disagree with your conclusion that DMs favor the Cube and players the Tarrasque as a winner. I am a DM. Yeah, I've played...many moons ago when there was someone else running a game. But then I started DMing, and once you start, if you keep people entertained and offer interesting stories and are a fair referee, it's really hard to plead, beg, cajole, bribe, or bully anyone else into doing it...because they all want to PLAY. So, I'm stuck DMing with no playing fix. Been DMing for something like five years now with very little playing. *sigh* (Anyone else have this problem? How did you get someone else to pick up the DM mantle for awhile? Actually, that's off-topic here. I'll open another thread with that question.) And I voted for the Tarrasque against the Cube for a simple reason: I can put a cube anywhere in an underground setting. It requires next to no creativity to figure out a reason to use one. A cube can be added to an adventure that doesn't even usually have one, and it still works out just fine. The Tarrasque, on the other hand, requires some real thinking to use. I have, in fact, used one only once in my campaign, and then only as an aside to the major story. (Basically, it was the Tarrasque's time to wake up...it woke up, tore a swath out of the countryside, and went back into hibernation. The players came upon the torn-up trail of carnage...and wisely decided to leave it alone since whatever did THAT kind of destruction was a challenge for other, more powerful, parties to deal with!) I would like to see the Tarrasque used as part of a published adventure...to see how someone else would creatively use it. As far as cubes and creativity: Kudos on the pit trap published earlier. The more I thought about it and kicked it around with another DM, the nastier that trap sounded! I'm going to use it somewhere. :) It matters not if the Tarrasque or cube wins. Meepo in '05! |
| Haer'dalis05-17-05, 10:15 AM | Give them a few minutes, will ya? As of this writing, it's only 6:36 AM at the WotC offices. oh my bad...it's past 3 PM in UK...forgot bout time zones... |
| JadeSpider964305-17-05, 10:19 AM | the primary reason the Terrasque sucks, is that it's too stupid to intelligently interact with, and the only way to kill it is through metagaming. I don't care how many monster experts you consult with to study the creature, any knowledge you gain is still gonna be metagaming. Any creature with damage reduction Infinite/metagaming just sucks. A vote for Gello is a vote for TRUE D&D! |
| wingGodzilla05-17-05, 10:54 AM | It is almost 11am EST and still no news yet. I also want to know who won. Oh well guess I'll watch LOTR (again) and come back later! |
| Mercurius05-17-05, 11:55 AM | It's all because of this thread that I was inspired to work a Gelatinous Cube into my most recent adventure plans. Not only did it provide a very difficulte combat for some unobservant/no-common-sense players, it also helped me explain how an evil group of slavers could dispose of their bodies without anyone knowing about it. Thank you all for the wonderful discussions of this amazing monster. Now, why can't I vote against the pixie yet?!? |
| kingmissile05-17-05, 12:30 PM | I don't suppose we could see the character sheets of these creatures could we? I mean, saying warforged ninja is fine but what level of ninja? what feats does he have? how many levels of Dervish does the Marilith have? difficult to call some of the upcoming competitions without this info. |
| Mercurius05-17-05, 12:44 PM | I don't suppose we could see the character sheets of these creatures could we? I mean, saying warforged ninja is fine but what level of ninja? what feats does he have? how many levels of Dervish does the Marilith have? difficult to call some of the upcoming competitions without this info. :teach: The competitions aren't versus competitons, they're popularity competitions. It doesn't matter how many levels they have, it matters what you think of the monster in general. It's not "could the succubus paladin wipe the floor with the mind flayer or would her brains be eaten?" It's "do I think the succubus paladin is cooler than the mind flayer?" |
| Zitchas05-17-05, 01:16 PM | Now, what would be much more inttresting than the standard match up would be a match up betwneen the Terrasque and a Collasal+ Cube. Can you imagine the look of horror on your adventurer's faces as they confront a Cube big enough to suspend an entire Terrasque within it? Or at least envelope it, might not quite have the mass to suspend it. But either way.... |
| Wotc_Mark05-17-05, 01:51 PM | Week 2 - Lady Bestine vs Marilith Dervish "Lady Bestine" -- Half-Gold Dragon/Pixie The pixie side brings out the merry prankster; the gold dragon side brings out the hatred of injustice and foul play -- and both sides are brought to bear especially against wicked travelers and misers. Marilith Dervish Mariliths never pass up an opportunity to fight, especially one armed with six longswords of wounding -- making her a true whirling dancer of death. VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE NOW! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050510a) |
| Davian05-17-05, 01:58 PM | Ah, Marilith Dervish. 6 arms... 6 ways to kill... now how cool is that? |
| Haer'dalis05-17-05, 02:02 PM | Yay Tarrasque !! I knew cube wouldn't make it.... Now for that 6 armed serpentine demon mistress :) |
| darktemplar5105-17-05, 02:14 PM | I voted for the Dervish. Don't get me wrong - I've always enjoyed sending pixies after the party and watching their expressionons of horror when they're stuff gets stolen, they get knocked out, forced to dance, etc. I even hope for a kobold bard at some point in the near future (perform: Punch and Judy puppet show and Perform: Kobold Opera). stealthy, tricky opponents are always fun to run, especially if they have flight. But there is just something cool about hitting opponents for 6+ con damage every round. Only undead and warforged characters really have a chance to deal with the dervish, so it makes a really good final boss in a chamaign. not as good as my afore-mentioned psudonatural paragon multiheaded psionic insectile spellwarped winged courupted tarrasque of legend, but still a good champaign ender non-the-less. |
| Mercurius05-17-05, 02:19 PM | Yay Tarrasque !! I knew cube wouldn't make it.... Now for that 6 armed serpentine demon mistress :) :weep: Just what I need. An adventure I'll never use. *shrug* I guess the majority can find a use for an adventure that'd likely require absurdly high levels, and I guess I'll be interested to see how it plays out. Ah, well... I voted for Lady Bestine. She doesn't strike me as the coolest monster in the match-ups, and I think the Marilith is actually a fair bit cooler, but I have a feeling I'd be much better able to use the adventure that includes her than I could the adventure which includes the Marilith. And trouble making NPCs can be fun... |
| Matjannan05-17-05, 02:24 PM | Bah. I'm disappointed in the Cube. Was certain it would win. Oh well. On to the next round. In the "coolness" contest, killing capacity doesn't count for much with me. I want something unusual. Everyone *knows* a marilith demon could wipe the floor with a pixie (even a half-dragon pixie), but a six-armed living blender is not interesting enough to hold my attention. "It's a demon and it's standing in our way. Kill it." Even with levels in Dervish (ok...now we have a food processor) it's just more of the same. A pixie with a gold dragon parent would definitely make me sit up and wonder what's going on. Here's a scenario. You're fighting a BBEG and you're down lots of hit points. All of a sudden, the BBEG gets pantsed! Holy crap! Funny and basically in a non-magical entangle . Tell me that's not an invitation for RP and/or investigation. NSBBEG: "My marilith dervish could wipe the floor with your half-dragon pixie." ME: "Yeah, well. My half-dragon pixie just pantsed your marilith's boss." |
| tomismore05-17-05, 02:52 PM | Okay, dervish with 2 arms are scary, but SIX ARMS??? Can you say, 6 attacks against each foe passed during a dervish dance at full Base Attack Bonus? Can you say FREAKIN' AWESOME? |
| havershame_swordflinger05-17-05, 03:00 PM | :weep: Just what I need. An adventure I'll never use. *shrug* I guess the majority can find a use for an adventure that'd likely require absurdly high levels, and I guess I'll be interested to see how it plays out. Ah, well... don't feel so bad I highly doubt that big T will make it all the way, there are much more interisting things to create adventures around in this contest. :evillaugh Go Robot Ninja!!! :evillaugh |
| Matjannan05-17-05, 03:02 PM | Okay, dervish with 2 arms are scary, but SIX ARMS??? Can you say, 6 attacks against each foe passed during a dervish dance at full Base Attack Bonus? Can you say FREAKIN' AWESOME? Yeah. As I said. A food processor. ;) |
| bloody_dagger8705-17-05, 03:38 PM | For all you snot loving people out there, There is no room for jello. I have one thing to say from all us Tarrasque people: WE TOLD YA SO!! Oh, and the Marrilith will win. Demons rule over all. - Bleeding Dagger |
| Jcoberg1005-17-05, 03:42 PM | I voted for the pixie she would be so much fun from a dm's perspective. Question? What happens when you vote more than once does it count i tried it and it lets you vote as many times as you want (i did it 4 times) so whats to stop someone from going on and voting for their favorite monster for an hour staight. about 7200 votes. I think they should make it so you can only vote once. |
| Sprain Ogre05-17-05, 03:49 PM | Beast of Legends all the way, go Tarrasque. This weeks selections look a bit more interesting then last weeks (I'm still wondering why it was Tarrasque vs. Gelatinous Cube). Now let's see, even if they have the minimum CR's, the Maralith Dervish still winds this fight hands-down (hehe). If she can find the pixie (although you guys used the nixie picture) that is. But wait, true sight and a high spot take care of that nicely. While Otto's dance could really ruin the Maralith's day, it only works if the pixie gets past her SR. They both have that problem with cold iron, which makes this an interesting match up. But the Maralith is a whirlwind of death, and statistically there is really now way a little 1/2 dragon pixie could stand up to it. But this isn't about the numbers, is it? OK, on one side we have a pixie with a dragon for a parent. While I like 1/2 dragons, it's a good generic power up template (as we all know how randy dragons are...), but it's really overused. On the other side, we have a Maralith with Dervish training. You'd just need to move a few skills around to meet the requirements as the feats all seem to stack up right. So what does this all mean, which one is more interesting, cooler? Well, the 1/2 dragon pixie is a prankster. Wow, a pixie that's a prankster, that's unusual! Then we have the Maralith with a prestige class that makes it a better killing machine. Again, highly unusual... Now, for me, thematically the 1/2 gold dragon pixie just doesn’t work well, and that's more for the gold dragon blood. Now, if a different color would have been used, maybe it would have worked better. While these two natures seem to be working well together, there is no depth to it. Not very streamlined, not very complimentary and worst of all, for this case, not very original. The Maralith Dervish though, she has a prestige class the compliments not only her natural abilities, but her reason for being here. Killing stuff fast. A pixie infused with the desire to do good and champion for the oppressed probably isn't going to play too many pranks on groups of well meaning or heroic adventurers, while that's the whole point of your normal pixie. The Maralith is going to make your day really, really bad when you run into her, just like she's supposed to. Beyond that, I just think it's a cool combo that could make for an interesting reoccurring villain at high level, and while I know there are a lot of people who don't like high level play, this is exactly the reason I do like it. Crazy, mean, and deadly foes just like this. My vote: Maralith Dervish :D |
| tarrasqueDM12305-17-05, 04:05 PM | I KNEW the TARRASQUE was going to WIN!!! Yes Yes YES!! :D I knew that idiotic CUBE was gonna get beatin. Thank god or should I say thank pelor! Now on to this new fight. Lady Bestine: I'm not to sure about this one I mean Half dragon half Pixie i mean how is that even possible like how would the.... :yuck: nevermind but that's just nasty.And what respectible Gold dragon would go and match up with a puny pixie?! :thinks: So this ones a major NO. :thumbsdow Marilith Dervish:I'm voting for this thing.Both things are female so I'm not very enthusiastic.But I like the sound of those six swords she's got and of course because she's an evil,sick minded freak. So this one is an un-enthusiastic Yes. :thumbsup: But if she wins then the Tarrasque is going to kick her butt in the next round, and that goes for the pixie/dragon freak too. Remember:Vote for the Tarrasque whenever you can! :w00t: |
| Matjannan05-17-05, 04:32 PM | *snip* Well, the 1/2 dragon pixie is a prankster. Wow, a pixie that's a prankster, that's unusual! Then we have the Maralith with a prestige class that makes it a better killing machine. Again, highly unusual... Now, for me, thematically the 1/2 gold dragon pixie just doesn’t work well, and that's more for the gold dragon blood. Now, if a different color would have been used, maybe it would have worked better. While these two natures seem to be working well together, there is no depth to it. Not very streamlined, not very complimentary and worst of all, for this case, not very original. You're right, bronze or copper would probably be a better choice for the color of the dragon; however, could you explain why there is no depth? Streamlined: Not really, though I'm not entirely sure what you mean by streamlined Complimentary: Again, depends on what you mean. Original: For those who put the half-dragon template on every squirrel, no it's not very original. Personally, so far I only have one half dragon in my entire world and that one opperates behind the scenes. Having the party encounter a half-dragon pixie would certainly become an interesting twist for the campaign. The Maralith Dervish though, she has a prestige class the compliments not only her natural abilities, but her reason for being here. Killing stuff fast. A pixie infused with the desire to do good and champion for the oppressed probably isn't going to play too many pranks on groups of well meaning or heroic adventurers, while that's the whole point of your normal pixie. The Maralith is going to make your day really, really bad when you run into her, just like she's supposed to. Beyond that, I just think it's a cool combo that could make for an interesting reoccurring villain at high level, and while I know there are a lot of people who don't like high level play, this is exactly the reason I do like it. Crazy, mean, and deadly foes just like this. My vote: Maralith Dervish :D Adding classes and prestige classes to intelligent monsters is nothing new to me. So a marilith dervish is no more interesting to me than a dragon with levels in sorcerer or archmage. Just because you have a desire to do good and an obsession for championing the oppresed doesn't mean you can't play pranks. It just means those pranks aren't going to be harmful. As for pranking being the whole point of a pixie...pixies make great non-evil villains, but they make better specialist NPCs (a pixie would be the ideal sabateur). And if you've ever seen an angry horde of pixies charging something... :eek: *shudder*. It's Monty Python gone terribly wrong. On a more metagame level, a marilith starts at CR17. Then you start adding PrC levels. Four levels of dervish makes it an epic challenge. A pixie starts at CR 5 (4 without OID). Add 2 levels for the half-dragon template and you get a CR 7. For hack and slash, I'd choose the marilith any day. But I'm going through an RP/Mystery phase. So I'll stick with the pixie. 'course it would be really cool if they published all the character sheets after this is over so those who thought a (relatively) unpopular idea was cool could use it. |
| mocker stole my username!05-17-05, 04:33 PM | I've always been a pixie-fan. yeah. go on, hate me. Half-dragon/pixie is a contrabulously gr-oo-eat-d idea.(have no idea what that means.) Warforged owns. Ninjas are plain awesome. NINJA+WARFORGED=PAWNINATED X2 http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/style_emoticons/2/toughninja.gif Beholder swashbuckler is style driven to the extreme outer frontiers of coolityness(yup, no idea what that means neither.) Ahh... Succubus paladin... If there's one thing I love in a campaign, then it's the baddie gone good. Once my party turned a LE kobold clan into a LG kobold clan. (err... did I forget to mention that we had to slaughter all the male militaristic adults first?) Shuluth should probably just find somewhere to hide. quickly. Celestial Dire Badger vs. "Meepo"... Hard to say... I can't decide, really. |
| Blizman1305-17-05, 04:42 PM | First, I want to congratulate the Tarrasque. Sorry Cube, I had to choose. Now, for the second match-up. I was first thinking that the Dervish was the way to go, but now, thinking it through, I might choose the pixie thing. The Pixie could make a lot of mischief for the PC's. Seriously though, whoever I pick in this match I don't think is going to make it past the Tarrasque, so I could really just flip a coin here. |
| bloody_dagger8705-17-05, 04:57 PM | I remember way back when, after recieving some very good advice from a good friend of mine, Lori Knutson (Love ya Mrs. Lori! Elves and alien people forever YEAH!) We had some fun with Kobolds....particularly Meepo. First we befrended them all, using TN characters and very good Diplomacy rolls. Then, when night befell the citadel, we doused the place in oil (Very expensive, had to do four teleports and have a crapload of money). When we left, we carelessly tossed our torches over our shoulders, lighting the small trail of oil, which in turn went down the hall, redusing the citadel to the equivalent of Hell. :schemes: FIRE EVERYWHERE! :mage: I can imagine Meepo quirming and writhing, enjoying his new KFC Extra Crispy Fried Kobold self.... :D :evillaugh: -Bleeding Dagger |
| feartheinvinceblehamster05-17-05, 05:07 PM | I voted for marilith dervish since once the tarrasque is in a adventure we may as well just pick the damage machines instead of flavor like a half-dragon pixie VOTE EPIC ROGUE/ASSASIN VERSION OF MEEPO!!! |
| KoboldSlayer05-17-05, 05:12 PM | I voted dervish, mostly to vote against pixie. Basically, I've found that my players interject enough light-hearted moments and comic relief into the story for my (and their) taste, without having more funnies introduced by the encounters. I do throw in the occassional comic relief from and NPC or encounter, but an encounter with a pixie? (Or worse...more than one?) It is just screaming to degenerate into silliness, and I try to keep my campaigns on a more serious note and only use the comedy to break tension if it gets thick enough to cut with a knife. (The "pantsing" post from earlier supported my resolve to vote against pixie. That's exactly the kind of thing I like to avoid in my campaigns.) |
| Wotc_Mark05-17-05, 05:30 PM | Question? What happens when you vote more than once does it count i tried it and it lets you vote as many times as you want (i did it 4 times) so whats to stop someone from going on and voting for their favorite monster for an hour staight. about 7200 votes. I think they should make it so you can only vote once.The poll engine should be directing you to a page that says "You've already voted". It is possible that it is incorrectly redirecting you to the initial thank you page giving you the impression that its counting a vote again. But it's not. The poll engine knows all sorts of things and knows not to count that vote. However if we see that someone is getting past the security and stacking the vote we can catch it and block that persons votes from the results. The poll is fairly casual and noone should feel the need to stuff the ballot box. However if we see this happening may have to add another level of complexity that involves registering for a wizards.com name and logging in to vote. MJ :cool: |
| eye_sac05-17-05, 05:44 PM | NO!!! The cube lost! Oh well, time to vote for the dervish. Because pixies are lame, even with the gold dragon heritage. |
| Manyfist05-17-05, 05:45 PM | Marilith Dervish... Six arms of terror. Lady Bestine stands No chance against the six armed She-Demon... besides, she might just give you that wink you always dreamed of. |
| DDogwood05-17-05, 05:47 PM | Just say NO to Pixies. Nobody says NO to the living cuisinart. I'm disappointed that the Tarrasque beat the Cube. By a margin of 3:2! It's sad when the monster that is LESS imaginitive than an acidic Knox Blox wins. Sigh. |
| lightman05-17-05, 05:57 PM | I'm not voting for the Pixie out of mercy. A few rounds with the Tarrasgue...I hope she has health insurance |
| Sprain Ogre05-17-05, 06:22 PM | I think I can answer, at least a little, your question Matjannan. Personally, I'd have gone with bronze myself. You asked why I don't feel there is any depth to Lady Bestine, so here's my reasoning. You have the base of a prank-playing fey. Add to this a draconic lineage that is know to be wise, crusading, and a dislike of foul play. Now what do we know about her? She is an even mix of these? Just seems dull and far too easy. If she was described as going heavy one way, but with a trait the other, then there'd seem to be something more to her. Sure, the draconic side does not have to influence a PC/NPC, it be more interesting to see a little conflict in a character who's adventure strength would almost have to be their dual nature, because why else do that combo. Streamlined: powers/abilities that compliment each other or that contrast in an unique way. More or less a power gaming mentality. Complimentary: Do they make sense together. Like you commented, and I agree, a bronze or copper would have complimented the pixie side better. Thematic issue Original: You simply see a lot of half dragons out there; published adventures, fan stuff, a prestige class that does this to a character, etc. You simply see it alot. And I've never thought of 1/2 dragoning squirrels, but now that you mention it..... 1/2 green, 1/2 squirrel, all foaming, very angry.....I mean an awakened swashbuckler cat (after I saw Shreck 2), but not a 1/2 dragon squirrel. But you have a good point; it's all about how often you use a template. Adding classes and prestige classes to monsters isn't anything new either; it's just that this combo seemed to work better for me. I agree with your assessment of when each of the two are useful, one for hack and slash, one for more role playing encounters. However, I'm not a big fan of fey for rp encounters. In fact, I can’t think of the last time I actually used a fey at all. Maybe I'll have to look into that for some future encounters; I've just never really liked most of the fey races that much. I try to keep my games a bit more serious, and when I add comic relief, I want to catch my players by surprise with it. Fey as comic relief isn't a surprise, but it is convenient. Also, I really think that as they represent her, she'd only focus her pranks on those that deserve them. So they encounter you get is "Old Mr. Scrooge is being plagued by a mean spirited little pixie. Uh-oh, turns out the pixie is a 1/2 gold dragon, and Mr. Scrooge is a wicked old miser. Now what?" Sure, it would make for a good rp/mystery encounter, but in the end it's just jerking your PC's around (something I do like doing, but it needs more layers) as Lady Bestine is obviously in the right, and as written wouldn't :censored: with those that didn't deserve it. But again, this depends on the group, and how you like to play. I can make an interesting encounter around the Maralith too, and it's more of a challenge for me to make it not hack and slash. Hell, more then that, I just like the idea of the Maralith Dervish, and that alone was enough to tip the balance. |
| Tahatu05-17-05, 06:28 PM | I can't vote for a little pixie. no matter how powerful it is. the maralith Dervish is just far greater of a force. A powerful devil is a force that can even slay a dragon. Wait until it faces the terrasque. |
| Matjannan05-17-05, 06:36 PM | Good answers, Sprain Ogre. I guess I'm of the opinion that a sprite that a dragon would mate with would naturally be less prankish (not non-prankish). Add that in with the nobility of the gold dragon and you get a puckish paladin. Obviously a head on assault is not going to be her style, so she uses her natural talent for misdirection to even the odds. This type of background would allow you to suprise your players...with a serious pixie. ;) A merilith demon dervish can likewise have an interesting background (while on an undercover op. she is apprenticed to the local dervish). But it's much more straightforward. I like the image of a squirrel foaming at the mouth with something other than rabies. Good for silliness. (which my view of the sprite is not. fun, yes. silly, no) |
| Azuaron05-17-05, 07:29 PM | Had to vote for the Marilith, not that it will matter. Neither one of them has what it takes to go all the way. Sorry, but a half-dragon pixie just seemed too ridiculous (I know, I know, it's supposed to be). On another note, does anyone find Illithid as cool as I do? There's barely been any mention of the mind-flayer, except in passing without actually commenting on it. I don't exactly appreciate it being up against a customer as tough as a Succubus Paladin (come on, infinite possibilities there. What kind of Paladin? Standard, with a changed alignment, or the LE Paladin in Unearthed Arcana? With the Vrock mount, I bet it's the latter), but I still have high hopes. Illithid are the coolest monsters to ever come out of D&D. :ayyyy!: |
| Half-Fiend Monkey05-17-05, 07:31 PM | Just 2 notes #1 Marilith Dervish is way cooler than 1/2 gold prankster. How can you beat six swords at once? #2 :confused: WHO THE HELL IS MEEPO :confused: KOBOLDS ARE PATHETIC :mad: DOWN WITH MEEPO :thumbsdow |
| Arhra05-17-05, 07:38 PM | I do feel like I should bring one thing up. Why is that some of the monsters are named and some aren't? Obviously things like a badger or a gelatinous cube (probably) wouldn't have a name, but why not the marilith or the warforged? Anyway, I voted for the marilith, partially because I found the idea of the pixie a bit far fetched. |
| bloody_dagger8705-17-05, 07:50 PM | Meepo was an annoying Kobold in the Sunless Citadel. He tricked the party and screwed them over. Then, one bright and shiny day, Bayne came to the rescue. He brought with him three friends, all elves, and a crap load of oil. He befriended Meepo, that cute loveable terd, and was brought to the queen. He and his friends were allowed to stay the night for a party. Then, while all the kobolds bere dreaming kobold dreams, Bayne and his friends gave the kobolds a kobold oil bath. As they left the slumber party, our heros lit the kobolds on fire. Rumor has it that the Sunless Citadel still smells, and is now called the Sunless, stinky, why-the-hell-are-there-burnt-kobolds-everywhere? Citadel. The End. |
| Azuaron05-17-05, 07:52 PM | So, Meepo is merely a burnt annoyance who should not get an ounce more of our attention? |
| Judicator Shekar05-17-05, 08:49 PM | This week is tough for me. I must say, the concept of a half dragon pixie that uses the abilities and qualities of both races to their greatest capacity is awsome. Moreover, I can even build a cool adventure up around Lady Bestine (I actually might for my FR game). Unfortunately for Bestine, the Maralith is my all time favorite Demon (probably my favorite non-unique feind, damn, even my favorite exemplar). Now, I know that giving a Maralith dervish levels or even tempest levels seems obvious, and, therefore, kind of lame; but I simply cannot get over how much I love Mariliths. Honestly, every single one of the 2E campaigns I DMed had a Maralith in them somewhere. As such, the Marilith Dervish gets to take my heart (or soul) this week. SIDE NOTE: Please stop arguing about Meepo. He's in the last bracket, talking about him now will do no good. Moreover, it's annoying the crap out of many people, myself included. Thanks in advance. |
| Epicfetus05-17-05, 08:56 PM | Half-Dragon Pixie...? Why? I mean, Half-Dragons have never been my bag anyway, but half-dragon Pixie??? voting 'lith. |
| Malfius05-17-05, 09:25 PM | a maralith dervish, now that's a killing machine! as intruiging as it would be to see them explain away that other thing in a cohesive plotline, i really like the dervish. i mean REALLY. more than mag wheels. and I LIKE mag wheels. |
| Light Dragon05-17-05, 09:59 PM | Well at least the marilith dervish is a shred more imaginative than a tarrasque... and a bit more useful too. I mean- how useful is a creature that appears for basically a week every 100 or so years? And honestly... a 1/2 gold dragon pixie... that's really stretching the realms of believability or even playability. I absolutely hate hybrids in my game beyond the usual half orc/half fiend/half celestial/half elf things. they just confuse things. - As for the earlier comments about my mispelling of heckatanchari and having its CR off by 2- I apologize for not owning the book and not having looked at it for over 1 1/2 years. It's somewhat difficult to remember exact facts. - As another comment- it's sad that the Illithid will stand absolutely no chance against the succubus :( because I like Illithids, but honestly, the only things that can challenge that succubus are [(I had thought) the Gelatinous Cube], Meepo, the Warforged Ninja, or that Half-Drow Half-Golem Lich abomination. ;) |
| bloody_dagger8705-17-05, 10:12 PM | I, for once, have nothing to post that has ANYTHING to do with the competition, other than I roasted Meepo.....Anyone want an egg? |
| veekie05-17-05, 10:17 PM | Just call her Kali, the dancer of death. |
| darktemplar5105-17-05, 10:41 PM | As it actually turns out, Meepo isn't your average kobold. He is a Paragon Kobold with 10+ levels in Bard. The reason that his "hit points" in the sunless citidel were so low was because he hired his twin brother, Merpo, to impersonate him and delude adventurers into thinking he was week. He was scrying on adventurers the entire time to learn their fighting stratagy. If you look closely through The Sunless Citidel, you'll see that Meepo's statistics don't show up on the named character's pages. Now you know why. And to think that you fried his brother, bloody_dagger87. I'd watch your back if I were you. Bardic suggestion may be an under-used ability, but I've seen it used to cause more deaths from in-party fights than an entire month's worth of modules. |
| Judicator Shekar05-17-05, 10:43 PM | Hehe, if these early posts are anything like the final outcome of this vote, Lady Bestine seems to have been turned into a smoothie by our favorite 6-armed darling. It's kind of sad, but, c'est la guerre (I can say that because it's may and Heroes of Battle just came out). |
| wingGodzilla05-18-05, 12:31 AM | I'm going to take this one week at a time. Big win for BIG T!!!! Now time to chop some half-pixie butt with "the six arms of death." Only wish my basketball pool went this well. |
| Bard-of-all-trades05-18-05, 01:04 AM | The overall power levels just don't add up. The marilith basically starts as an epic-level creature where as the pixie/half-dragon combo only adds up to a +7 level adjustment, +9 if she could cast Otto’s Irresistible Dance. You would have to go with at least 12 levels of something to get it to some semblance of equality. The question is: what class levels do you give her? The pixie has a preferred class of Sorcerer. Lady Bastine would have an overall bonus to her ability scores as follows: +4 to Strength, +8 to Intelligence, +4 to Wisdom, +8 to Dexterity, +2 to Constitution, and +8 to Charisma. She would also have d12 for Hit Dice per level; no matter what class she took. Greater Invisibility would be useless since marilith can See Invisible at will. They would both have high SR and some DR with Lady Bastine getting the edge on the former and the Marilith getting the edge on the latter. It would really depend on the feats and spells chosen by Lady Bastine. As listed, the nod would have to be for the Marilith, but with a well chosen list of feats and spells, Lady Bastine could squeak this one out. |
| Marshall Stone05-18-05, 01:54 AM | Well I voted for the Marilith which is SO MUCH cooler than an silly half dragon pixie. Of course its rather moot cause in the end we all know it's going to come down to the Tarrasque vs. Meepo...and Meepo is going to tear the Tarrasque to pieces. GO MEEPO! |
| Balthor05-18-05, 03:15 AM | T-man won. and Why? No... really.... Why? There is only one, yes.... but isn't an opponent that you have a chance aginst better? Oh well. LET"S GO MEPO!!!! :cheer: :w00t: |
| Drindin05-18-05, 04:07 AM | There is nothing uncool about a marilith dervish. Not only does it have six arms, but it has six arms that can effortlessly wield sharp-edged things and kick some total... er... pixie bottom! |
| The_Newborn05-18-05, 04:46 AM | When will people actually read the details of this poll? This is a poularity comp not a "Tarrasque should win cause it is so powerful". The Tarrasque is such a boring creature could they make it any more lame. They should have hit the cube with a template or two. As for the current round I'm all for the Marilith Dervish. Both have the silly factor, but the Pixie is just annoying. BRING ON THE FEY-KA-BOB!! |
| TellerofTruths05-18-05, 07:45 AM | Tarrasque is the winner, yay go Tarrasque. Anyway I am voting for Lady Bestine. She won't be able to be hit because she is so small. She would just fly around him/her. That is the only way it would win, not getting hit. P.S. Mindflayer is going to destroy Succubus. |
| bloody_dagger8705-18-05, 08:36 AM | When will people actually read the details of this poll? This is a poularity comp not a "Tarrasque should win cause it is so powerful". The Tarrasque is such a boring creature could they make it any more lame. They should have hit the cube with a template or two. As for the current round I'm all for the Marilith Dervish. Both have the silly factor, but the Pixie is just annoying. BRING ON THE FEY-KA-BOB!! Wow....yeah, that was VERY self contradictory. We should NOT vote for the Tarrasque because it's a populatiry thing, yet we should vote for the Marilith because pixies are annoying....I see. |
| mocker stole my username!05-18-05, 08:55 AM | THIS IS A MESSAGE TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THIS IS A COMBAT RELATED POLL, LIKE "WHO WOULD WIN IN A BARFIGHT"-STYLE. THIS IS NOT ABOUT COMBAT: IT'S WHO WE LIKE THE MOST(style, pwn-factor, etc.)! REMEMBER, THE WINNER IS GOING TO BE THE CENTER(villain?) OF THE NEXT ONLINE ADVENTURE! DORKIANS! By the way, Meepo would be a better feature in an adventure that cel. dire badger... |
| Haer'dalis05-18-05, 08:56 AM | There is one reason why Marilith should win...the Dervish levels just compliment her in a way that seems most natural. Whereas the pixie? Why would a dragon mate with a pixi... |
| The_Newborn05-18-05, 09:06 AM | Wow....yeah, that was VERY self contradictory. We should NOT vote for the Tarrasque because it's a populatiry thing, yet we should vote for the Marilith because pixies are annoying....I see. Um...What the? If you arn't going to post something that people can read, don't bother wee one. As for a rebutle: I fail to see the contradiction. The first half of my original post was commenting that the poll is "who is your favourite" not "who would beat the bejesus out of their opponent the most". The only reason I mentioned that is because a number of people have posted messages along the lines of pure combat merit. Now here is where you lost me... The second half of my message was on the quality of character of the current competitors. Note the lack of "Hehe, The Maralith has more attacks and better damage so it's like no competition dude" in the post. With reference to the first half of my message, the tarrasque spends most of it's time sleeping. It only gets up to eat. If I wanted to see that kind of abomonation I'd go to the nearest McDonalds! |
| Monsoon2805-18-05, 09:29 AM | Sure she lose to the Terrasque in the end but the Marilith is too cool for school! Besides that goodie two shoes pixie would likely be a NPC. Bah! A Vote for Meepo is a vote for Nader! :D :P |
| Monsoon2805-18-05, 09:34 AM | THIS IS A MESSAGE TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THIS IS A COMBAT RELATED POLL, LIKE "WHO WOULD WIN IN A BARFIGHT"-STYLE. THIS IS NOT ABOUT COMBAT: IT'S WHO WE LIKE THE MOST(style, pwn-factor, etc.)! REMEMBER, THE WINNER IS GOING TO BE THE CENTER(villain?) OF THE NEXT ONLINE ADVENTURE! DORKIANS! Yes this is why the GCube was doomed to fail and why the Pixie will be totally pwned by the Marilith! :devil: :schemes: :evillaugh |
| davethebrave37105-18-05, 09:53 AM | I voted for the pixie, because I fight on the side of Good! Champions of Justice, fight against this demon foe! TALLY-HOOOOOOO!! :angel: |
| Diefreak05-18-05, 09:56 AM | HA HA HA HA Tarra won Tarra is bad a/ss and nothing will stop him ( maybe meepo but...)any ways i think the cube is over used and as for the pixie...it can lick my nuts couse it is S- for sucks......and the six arm baddy can use 6 wands meaning 6 magic spells neat? and 1 more thing TARRASQUE IS SO COOLER BECOUSE IT BRINGS PLEASURE FOR THE DM (and for the players who kill it couse they make tarrasque full plate scale armor ) well all i have to say is VOTE MARILITH 05 |
| gutterball05-18-05, 10:18 AM | So very tired of pixies and their ilk. Hate the new movement where everything is fairy-fied. So tired of these Hot-Topic teens and their ostentatious choice in clothing...yes, yes...I get it, you're an alterna-teen and you have Tinkerbell on your on your thong and an Amy Brown design on your clever little faux-leather purse...you're just so SASSY! Pfft, whatever. Pixies, nixies, naiads, dryads, fairys, faeries, leprachauns, brownies, redcaps, boggans, wee-folk, gnomes, sprites.....all of them should cleaned, peeled, de-veined and consumed whole with cocktail sauce. Enough is enough. I'm not a huge demon fan, but I hates me some pixies. |
| Brother Ra05-18-05, 11:14 AM | I myself gave the cube my vote - I don't think it's going to the grand finale though! I just never liked that tarrasque guy, he's just plain silly! I don't, however, see how you can make a whole adventure with a monster as uninteresting as the gelatinous cube! A terrific encounter, yes, but the basis of an adventure... count me out! One comment I found very funny though: "I'm going to have to say the Cube wins this one... Oh sure, the Tarrasque has a 3 Int and the Cube has a zero. However, I believe that zero means that the cube has reached a zen like state of intelligence thus giving it the superior edge." -- Vastion Today I chose the marillith, the pixie is totally not cool! But in the end, meepo owns my heart. I remember him from our campaign and he's one of my favorite NPCs ever : ) ps who'd want a badger from heaven??? GO MEEPO!!! |
| Haer'dalis05-18-05, 11:15 AM | It still doesn't matter who wins in the first two battles. The sure winner of it all is the succubus. How can you resist that unearthly beauty and the flame-red hair.... :love: :angelhide :cloud9: |
| vutha_vaecaesin05-18-05, 11:25 AM | Now is the time for Meepo! "not key dragon!" |
| Pneuma00105-18-05, 12:01 PM | According to any game out there, if a creature has a name, it is more powerful than any other non-named creature. Therefore Lady Bestine is my choice. The powers implied by a Half-Gold Dragon/Pixie are innumerable. Shape change, multitudes of spell like abilities, improved invisibility... need you anything else? With improved invisibility, she can simply turn invisible and stay that way for the rest of combat. You can't hit what you can't see... or not very well. Six swords are nothing when more than half of them are missing or striking hard scale. Lady Bestine would most likely play with the Maralinth before finishing him off with one of his own swords. It's only a shame that she won't tell us how old she is... cuz you can't ask a lady that. The Maralinth is probably one of thousands Maralinths out there... What makes the one in the tournament so special? If he declined to give his name, then he probably didn't even come willingly. If he had any faith in himself then he'd show up on his own and he'd make sure EVERYONE knew what his name was. I guess we're lucky that he'll lose, cuz if he won he'd probably dive into the audience next, 6 longswords swinging like a massive weed-eater, cutting down the civilians and guards till the heroes showed up. But that won't happen. On a side note about last week: Here's a couple of scenarios of how the combat between the Tarrasque and the Cube could have gone... 1. The Tarrasque, being in a state of perpetual hunger and somewhat berserker rage, ignores the gelatanous cube and digs into the audience that had shown up to see just what a Tarrasque was. He eats hundreds of people, chasing them down till mercilessly the heroes show up. Then he eats the heroes. The Cube, being mindless, wanders around the arena floor soaking up the body parts left behind by his huge competition. But the judges say the game isn't over till one of them dies. So days go by. The entire kingdom that hosted the games is ravaged. Eventually the judges, in thier poorly stocked hiding place, die from starvation. New judges are elected and announce the competition over due to lack of standing arena. A second scenario: 2. The Tarrasque charges the Cube and swallows him whole. The cube hits the legendary acid in the stomach of the great beast and is gone in one round. If his own stomach acid deals so much damage, what makes anyone think that a gelatenous cube would do it any harm, inside or out. I can't wait to see 'em try to fit a Tarrasque into an adventure. I don't think it has been done before, at least not while it was awake... It was just kinda stuck into the 2nd edition book and all but forgotten. Pneuma |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-18-05, 12:23 PM | i'd have to say that my vote for this week easily goes to the marallith, i mean, come on! it's a fricken deamon with six long swords! how cool is that! i mean, half pixie half dragon...... it's just so....... not interesting....... i could care less....... but a dervish deamon!!! that's so cool!!!!! and about the name thing, i think the pixie/dragon just needed the props |
| Daijdjan05-18-05, 12:29 PM | I go for the pixie. It always brought depth into play when adding templates to ordinary creatures. And i am curious about the tactics section of the pixie when she gets the adventure part. What game designer is insane enougth to think like a half-pixie/half-dragon? Daijdjan |
| Pneuma00105-18-05, 12:32 PM | I was just reading back to page 12. Bard-of-all-trades mentioned that the Maralinth can see invis at will and that a base half-dragon/pixie isn't really that high of a level. I think I've just been talked into voting for the Maralinth. :) I wish I had my Monster Manual with me. Someone else mentioned that this isn't an arena deathmatch between two creatures... Well if it isn't, then why don't we just choose one now from the entire list? WHY? Cuz it's way more fun to imagine them fighting. Combat is what Role playing is all about. None of this talking and working stuff out avoiding combat stuff. You'll never get anywhere that way. (I am so totally joking!) Pneuma |
| Lashan05-18-05, 12:35 PM | I know it's past voting for the first round, but I see the gelatinous cube vs the terraesque as the difference between new players and old school players. Terraesque = new and incredibly powered creature. So powerful, it should never be put into a game. If you can beat this, you might as well put this campaign out to paster. This beast speaks to all the power gamers out there. Gelatinous cube = So old school, it was in the old Basic boxed sets. Made for dungeon crawls. A sneaky beast that can take out players if they aren't careful. Old schoolers have found memories of this guy and all those flasks of oil. |
| Airsucker05-18-05, 12:45 PM | The merrilith is yet another in a long line of blendomatics. I'm just not impressed when I can find this sort of thing any day of the week on the boards. The pixie half dragon isn't much better, but it is a little more of an intellectual challenge to use, so that's the one I voted for. I really don't think either one will make past the second round. As for Meepo, my players negotiated well with him by giving him shiney things now and again. A silver or a copper and some food kept him on the players side. By the time he shows up in another adventure, he'll have had plenty of time to find his calling as a sorceror or fighter/sorceror. |
| bloody_dagger8705-18-05, 12:55 PM | Okay, all you Cube people out there. DROP IT! The cube lost, game over man, game over! For the Tarrasque people, we've pretty much proven that the cube sucks and tarrasque rules, so let's move on to the second bracket, please? We can always support Big-T when he goes against the Marilith...Ooops...was that my outside voice? Ah well...yeah... Move on people, please.... |
| Pneuma00105-18-05, 01:16 PM | By the way, the maralinth's name is probably: "Dave, Slayer of the World, Destroyer of Kingdoms, Wrathful Wrongdoing, Mutilator of Happyness, Lord of Terror, Black Infamy, Crusher of Hopes, Ruiner of Dreams, Savage Monstrosity, Criminal Abomination, Depriver of Goodness, Breaker of Blessings, Putrid Stench of Evil, Creator of Despair, Promoter of Vice, Corrupt Hellborne, Spreader of Wickedness, Maker of Pain, Cause of Pestillence, Speaker of Curses, Reason for War, the Abhorrent." You're thinking: Isn't "Lord of Terror" already taken? But with everyone down there taking so many names, it becomes necessary to share, and they're really good about that. It's the order that matters. He usually just goes by his initials: Dsotwdokwwmohlotbicohrodsmcadogbobpsoeco dpovchsowmopcopsocrfwta. So remember when a demon tells you that his name cannot be pronounced in your tongue, that it really can't be pronounced in ANY tongue, and his friends just call him Dave. |
| killerrabbit05-18-05, 01:43 PM | i'd have to say that my vote for this week easily goes to the marallith, i mean, come on! it's a fricken demon with six long swords! how cool is that! i mean, half pixie half dragon...... it's just so....... not interesting....... i could care less....... but a dervish deamon!!! that's so cool!!!!! and about the name thing, i think the pixie/dragon just needed the props I agree. A vote for Badger is a vote for justice. vote Badger in '05. Yaaaaaaaaaaaay! Very agree. Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Mushroom Mushroom! (http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/) |
| Darkmyer05-18-05, 02:04 PM | 6 arms of wounding death or dragon fear/breath weapon/assorted other dragon death abilities of doom? answer seems simple: the little dragon wins. |
| Terraneaux05-18-05, 02:36 PM | Combat wise, it's not even a frickin' challenge, the marilith wins. She has to hit like eight times and its a dervish with a ridiculous attack bonus and probably has the feats to back up those six arms. As far as flavor... The marilith is a demon swordmaster. And I find fey annoying; half-dragon fey doubly so. As far as the argument about cube vs. tarrasque: the tarrasque is like godzilla. Don't knock big T. |
| Lashan05-18-05, 02:43 PM | Yeah, but it's not about who would win in a round of combat. It's about which you like better. I don't care for either of them, really. |
| havershame_swordflinger05-18-05, 02:55 PM | I don't care for either of them, really. I have to go with Lashan on this one nither one of these are that appeling. Thats why the :evillaughNinja Robot Will Rule All:evillaugh |
| Aston05-18-05, 03:17 PM | On the one hand, there's a half-dragon pixie. No, you heard right; it's a lil fairy who wants to play with the big boys. Big deal, it's half gold-dragon, so maybe it'll manage to splutter out a few flames before dying. Dying oh so horribly. On the other hand, there's a six-armed demon of doom! That's right folks; it slices, it dices, and it makes Julienne fries...out of FRESH FEY FLESH!! Although Ninjas beat everyone, and Eberron beats everyone. Guess who I'm backing for the final... |
| Inquisitor Ylodias05-18-05, 04:23 PM | ...out of FRESH FEY FLESH!! Try saying that ten times fast. It's fun. Anyway, both maraliths and dervishes have always held a special place in my heart, so the demon wins by far. Dragons and fey are all well and good, but a combination of the two? And it's not like the demon doesn't have any magical ability, either: at will/ blade barrier, polymorph, see invisibility, telekinesis, and greater teleport, among others. And that's beside her continuously functioning True Seeing.:bigeyes: Yes, the demon wins by far in my book. |
| Lyinginbedmon05-18-05, 04:49 PM | None-stat-wise, this is the same problem as with the Tarrasque VS Gelatinous Cube, one is much bigger and badder than the other. Let's see, a small green girl who just 'happens' to have a gold-dragon in her heritage spies a 6-armed demon from hell: Anyone up for a small green barbecue? |
| PearlJamaholic05-18-05, 04:55 PM | Death to the Pixies, nah gotta like the pixies. one more vote for the lady. |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-18-05, 05:38 PM | 6 arms of wounding death or dragon fear/breath weapon/assorted other dragon death abilities of doom? answer seems simple: the little dragon wins. thing is...... it's not a dragon, all it has is a breath weapon that it can use once a day, and a pair of claws, asn some other QUALITIES of a dragon, like, immunity and such, not really that thrillying, and if your going by who would win, to make it simple, the maralith has a CR of 17, and that's with out the extra dervish stuff, and with the half-dragon in the pixie, it's a measly 7! that might change your mind a little, hopefuly, it's not that hard, you just gotta come to the realization that the maralith would be having pixie that night for dinner. so, simply the answer is: maralith dervish |
| The_Newborn05-18-05, 08:12 PM | thing is...... it's not a dragon, all it has is a breath weapon that it can use once a day, and a pair of claws, asn some other QUALITIES of a dragon, like, immunity and such, not really that thrillying, and if your going by who would win, to make it simple, the maralith has a CR of 17, and that's with out the extra dervish stuff, and with the half-dragon in the pixie, it's a measly 7! that might change your mind a little, hopefuly, it's not that hard, you just gotta come to the realization that the maralith would be having pixie that night for dinner. so, simply the answer is: maralith dervish And only one freakin' Hit Dice. So If you are going by combat ability Maralith is the clear winner. My vote is for the Maralith because it does so much more than annoy wicked travelers passing through her forest. |
| Sect05-18-05, 08:15 PM | ... Wow, there's something inehrently wrong with a Half Dragon Pixie. Mainly... HOW THE HECK DID IT FIT?!? Okay, nuff that. Frankly, I'm going for the Dervish, 'cause I'm biased. And I still think the biology is just... wrong... |
| lucky205-18-05, 08:20 PM | A. The Marilith is female. Not a male. B. Dervishes are cool. Whirling Dervish Dancers of Death. Therefore, The Female Marilith wins. I'm mad, however, they have no good-aligned Erinyes. I love the Erinyes Devils. They're fallen angels. |
| The_Newborn05-18-05, 08:27 PM | I'm mad, however, they have no good-aligned Erinyes. I love the Erinyes Devils. They're fallen angels. What about a reformed fallen angel. It found the path after lossing it. |
| Manyfist05-18-05, 08:40 PM | The Maralith... who wouldn't want a Challange from her? Then you got the annoying Pixie... Maybe if she can Cast Ottos Irrestiable Dance... Dance Demon dance.... ::Maralith Doing the Macherina:: :D |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-18-05, 08:45 PM | A. The Marilith is female. Not a male. B. Dervishes are cool. Whirling Dervish Dancers of Death. Therefore, The Female Marilith wins. I'm mad, however, they have no good-aligned Erinyes. I love the Erinyes Devils. They're fallen angels. i know! i'm somewhat parsial to them and that would have been cool to see them in this competition, but i think the succubuses are still cooler, i mean, it's a devilish nymph! except it has wings and possibly, a tail:twitch: |
| Loki565405-18-05, 09:45 PM | :evillaughNinja Robot Will Rule All:evillaugh I will admit that I will be voting for the Warfoged Ninja, but I feel the need to clear up the one major misconception here. WARFORGED ARE NOT ROBOTS Nor are they 'droids, or any other techno-man synonym. They are constructs with souls. Think a little more "Tin Woodsman" and a little less "C-3po" go meepo! |
| OmiKapSi05-18-05, 09:57 PM | I find it quite amusing that everyone seems to think that the marilith dervish would win. Allow me to draw your attention to something: Marilith: Speed: 40 ft. Pixie: Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 60 ft. (good) (emphasis mine) Now, unless her dragon heritage somehow denies her flight, the marilith is going to have a tough time keeping track of a flying invisible pixie who stays 121 or more feet away. Lady Bestine needs merely to fill her full of little arrows, there's no way that the marilith will be able to do anything other than sit there and fume. The best she'll be able to do is summon a nalfeshnee, who can fly, but nowhere near as well as the lady. As for coolness factor... Demon cuisinart: am I voting a D&D encounter or a kitchen utensil? Dragon fairy lady: Cute, deadly, and noble. I'm a sucker for a good girl. |
| The_Newborn05-18-05, 10:38 PM | I find it quite amusing that everyone seems to think that the marilith dervish would win. Allow me to draw your attention to something: Marilith: Speed: 40 ft. Pixie: Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 60 ft. (good) (emphasis mine) One word: Polymorph. |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-18-05, 10:43 PM | I find it quite amusing that everyone seems to think that the marilith dervish would win. Allow me to draw your attention to something: Marilith: Speed: 40 ft. Pixie: Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 60 ft. (good) (emphasis mine) Now, unless her dragon heritage somehow denies her flight, the marilith is going to have a tough time keeping track of a flying invisible pixie who stays 121 or more feet away. Lady Bestine needs merely to fill her full of little arrows, there's no way that the marilith will be able to do anything other than sit there and fume. The best she'll be able to do is summon a nalfeshnee, who can fly, but nowhere near as well as the lady. As for coolness factor... Demon cuisinart: am I voting a D&D encounter or a kitchen utensil? Dragon fairy lady: Cute, deadly, and noble. I'm a sucker for a good girl. you lose, try checking out a maralith's spell like ability's, at will-align weapon, blade barrior(dc 23), magic weapon, project image (dc 23), polymorph, see invisibility, telikineses (dc 22), greater teleport, unholy arua (dc 25) so let's see, she could use see invisibility to always no where the pixie is, she can use telikineses to 1.) throw stuff at the pixie, 2.) pull the pixie into her range of attack, or 3.) she could hurl the pixie, each is a fine way to kill something if you ask mem and depending on her dervish level, she could have up to a +20ft. to her movement, which would increase it to 60 ft. as you see, there are many ways a marailith dervish will get it's pixie dinner. which amuses me that people actualy think the pixie could win, as for coolnes, i've said what i have to already. |
| Manyfist05-18-05, 10:45 PM | Any one going to vote for the Frenzied Beserker Troll? Who likes to be Rend first... o' wait you scratch me... ::Goes in to Frenzy:: Aghhh!!! ::Kills every one and FAILS the WILL save and frenzys on over to your house.:: :P |
| redchin_thunder05-18-05, 11:52 PM | This is about players' favorites. Though I can almost guarantee you the dervish will get the votes just because of its power plays (that'a ll anybody is posting), here's why the half-breed should get it. 1) How cool is it that a gold-dragon decided to mate with a pixie? It's more unique a creature than a marilith with class levels. There's a story why, and that needs telling. D&D is still more than stats and combat builds. 2) The marilith is a cuisinart on legs; the pixie is a fascinating combination of righteous lord and tricky prankster. As a DM, the marilith would give me a single fun combat; as a player, likewise. The pixie, though, provides a integral NPC who can be a riot to roleplay. On either end (DM or player) I'd eagerly seek an interaction with it. Vote Lady Bestine! |
| moonglum05-18-05, 11:56 PM | It isn't always about the toughest thing. It is also about bothering the players. The Marileth is a good fight, but then it is done with, the players get some decent magic long swords and some XP. Next! But the pixie will nag, taunt, and haunt them. It will appear to them in holographic messages and dreams. It will compel them to great, tragic Wagnerian quests and will play nasty mischevious pranks on those who are too morally lax to live up it its challenges. I vote for the pixie. |
| Scaly One05-19-05, 12:07 AM | Actually what I'd like to see is a minature cube as a familiar for a geometer. Me thinksss monodron asss improved familiar morrre likely... |
| anarco_rata05-19-05, 12:10 AM | She has six sword of wounding! Ouch! There's no competition here! of course, none of them can win against..Meepo! |
| geowags05-19-05, 12:43 AM | Maybe I'm a little late to this party, but I was wondering if there was somewhere to get the stats on all these fine creatures? Not the obvious ones like the Tarrasque or the Gelatinous cube, but the half-breeds and "unsual" creatures. Otherwise, all things being equal, MEEPO IS THE MAN... err KOBOLD! Vote for Meepo! |
| Lord_Ootek05-19-05, 12:52 AM | I had to Vote for the Dervish, I wanted to vote for the Pixie but I am sorry to say that in a 1 on 1 the Dervish will win each and every time :weep: |
| Scaly One05-19-05, 01:12 AM | So Pfft, whatever. Pixies, nixies, naiads, dryads, fairys, faeries, leprachauns, brownies, redcaps, boggans, wee-folk, gnomes, sprites.....all of them should cleaned, peeled, de-veined and consumed whole with cocktail sauce. Me dissscorrdssss: dryadsss rrr cool when you have medium humanoid ssshape ^^ |
| Scaly One05-19-05, 01:38 AM | The Maralith... who wouldn't want a Challange from her? Then you got the annoying Pixie... Maybe if she can Cast Ottos Irrestiable Dance... Dance Demon dance.... ::Maralith Doing the Macherina:: :D You jussst madesss me imagine Lady Mary Derrrvisssshhh dancing, with all herrr arrrmsss... :uh-huh: |
| The_Newborn05-19-05, 04:51 AM | It isn't always about the toughest thing. It is also about bothering the players. The Marileth is a good fight, but then it is done with, the players get some decent magic long swords and some XP. Next! But the pixie will nag, taunt, and haunt them. It will appear to them in holographic messages and dreams. It will compel them to great, tragic Wagnerian quests and will play nasty mischevious pranks on those who are too morally lax to live up it its challenges. I vote for the pixie. What about the whole clash of culture? A copper dragon would make sense but Gold. The two backgrounds opose each other. On one hand you have the pixie prankster which is lies, deciet and trickery! The Gold dragon on the other hand is nobel and all that paladiny crap. The only amusement I can see out of the pixie is the PCs giving it a counseling session. From the description it will only do it's thing on evil wayfarers so it won't get much contact with most PCs. |
| Terraneaux05-19-05, 04:52 AM | I understand its about flavor and not combat capability, but when i tihnk of an adventure centered around a monster, pixies are generally not it. Pixies are cool and all, but the problem is that one lucky fireball or lightning bolt wipes them out, and most players are more than happy to roast those guys, Let's face it, the majority of times a pixie gets used is just for a dm to **** of his players. They are very unlikely to kill anybody, just put them to sleep and erase their memories. Interesting, but oftentimes counterporductive in a gaming session. The Marilith, on the other hand, is smarter, stronger, and has a larger arsenal of tricks to spring on players inside of combat or outside. |
| The_Newborn05-19-05, 04:52 AM | Me dissscorrdssss: dryadsss rrr cool when you have medium humanoid ssshape ^^ I hope your not saying what I think your saying. ...hard to tell with the lisp and all. |
| Monsoon2805-19-05, 06:07 AM | It still doesn't matter who wins in the first two battles. The sure winner of it all is the succubus. How can you resist that unearthly beauty and the flame-red hair.... :love: :angelhide :cloud9: Well I think it's obvious, Paladin or not she has definitely used her charms on you! :D :P |
| Timeshaper05-19-05, 08:37 AM | I think the marilith is the one. She looks like General Deavous, which is an as$kickin' guy! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Oh? Did I say too much about Star Wars III? |
| Falrion05-19-05, 08:56 AM | Quote: Originally Posted by Haer'dalis It still doesn't matter who wins in the first two battles. The sure winner of it all is the succubus. How can you resist that unearthly beauty and the flame-red hair.... Quote: Originally Posted By Monsson28 Well I think it's obvious, Paladin or not she has definitely used her charms on you! ---------------------------------------------------------- I DEFFINITIVELY WANT HER TO USE HER CHARMS ON ME TOOO!!! :love: :drool: FOR NOW!!!! I VOTED ON THE MARILITH!!! THE PIXIE IS REALLY OVERUSED... KINDA LIKE THE GELLO-CUBE...I GOT A LOT OF FUN OUT OF THE PIXIE, BUT I REALLY WANT TO SLICE AND DICE MY PLAYERS AROUND WITH THE MARILITH... :evillaugh: |
| Judicator Shekar05-19-05, 08:58 AM | Hopefully, by the time we get down the bracket a bit, people will understand that this is NOT a competition of 'who would win'. Do you guys out there who vote for the obviously more powerful guy actually think that that is the question here? I mean, WotC has done some dumb things in the past, but match up the Cube and the Tarrasque?!?!? It also doesn't help your cases that the moderators have specifically stated that this is not a contest of combative prowess. I had to Vote for the Dervish, I wanted to vote for the Pixie but I am sorry to say that in a 1 on 1 the Dervish will win each and every time Allright man, look at my explanation above and change your vote if you feel it neccessary. On to answering some of the stuff put forth by Redchin_Thunder. Though I can almost guarantee you the dervish will get the votes just because of its power plays (that'a ll anybody is posting) Allright man, I understand your concerns. I, myself, am also championing the cause of roleplaying vs. ridiculous powergaming. Unfortunately, I have a slight dissagreement with your statement of "that's all anybody is posting". I must say, that, analyzing my original post responding to the maralith/bestine question, I posted my reasons as being related to personal preferance. I said that because the Maralith is my favorite exemplar, I am voting for her. I agree as to the lameness of the dervish situation (it's the most obvious choice for a creature with 6 arms), I simply tell you that I love the concept of that particular demon. I hope that clears the waters a bit. |
| Rocketmonkey05-19-05, 09:06 AM | Lots of people have made the point that the half-pixie thing could be used as a recurring NPC, interacting with the players in more complex ways than mere hack-and-slash. (Though I still agree with The Newborn, the pixie's background seems a tad skewed and she's probably in need of serious counselling) Which is all fine and good, and anyone who favours interaction and roleplay over hackfests is to be applauded. But, there's nothing preventing the Marilith from being involved in just as much interaction. She has hideously high mental stats; I can't recall how high off the top of my head, but she's easily smart enough and cunning enough to interact with PCs on a level that goes beyond slicing and dicing. Throw Polymorph as a spell-like ability into the mix and you've got a character who can mess with the PCs until the sun goes out without even having to draw a sword (let alone six). The main difference between the Marilith and the Pixie-thing isn't that only the Pixie can interact with the PCs, it's that only the Marilith can wipe the floor with them when she gets bored. |
| Zyphus05-19-05, 09:12 AM | Why is there only one thread for the whole competition? I thought there would be one for each match. Oh well. I am tired of all the new monsters being half-breed/template things. If "Lady" Bestine was a dragon that liked to pretend being a pixie I would have voted for her, but with two half-dragons in the list I'm going to hope all such critters get axed. Plus we might get to see a succubus and a marilith go one on one, but sadly that wouldn't be until round 3. |
| Falrion05-19-05, 09:17 AM | Lots of people have made the point that the half-pixie thing could be used as a recurring NPC, interacting with the players in more complex ways than mere hack-and-slash. (Though I still agree with The Newborn, the pixie's background seems a tad skewed and she's probably in need of serious counselling) Which is all fine and good, and anyone who favours interaction and roleplay over hackfests is to be applauded. But, there's nothing preventing the Marilith from being involved in just as much interaction. She has hideously high mental stats; I can't recall how high off the top of my head, but she's easily smart enough and cunning enough to interact with PCs on a level that goes beyond slicing and dicing. Throw Polymorph as a spell-like ability into the mix and you've got a character who can mess with the PCs until the sun goes out without even having to draw a sword (let alone six). The main difference between the Marilith and the Pixie-thing isn't that only the Pixie can interact with the PCs, it's that only the Marilith can wipe the floor with them when she gets bored. U r Tottaly Right!!! In The campaign i´ve been running for the last 3 years(they started lvl1- now lvl 19(lost a lot of lvls to item crafting)), they ran 2 times into mariliths, nthey didnt fight them, cuz the marilith´s were there just to scare them off... but i got some nice interactions with the PCs.. there is no need to be a flower-throwing nancy-pansie with high charisma, to interact with the party in a memmorable way.... |
| bookwurm05-19-05, 09:27 AM | I went for the Dervish Maralith. Something real cool about a character who, with the right feats, can make 48 attacks easy, and still make a standard move. |
| havershame_swordflinger05-19-05, 09:32 AM | I will admit that I will be voting for the Warfoged Ninja, but I feel the need to clear up the one major misconception here. WARFORGED ARE NOT ROBOTS Nor are they 'droids, or any other techno-man synonym. They are constructs with souls. Think a little more "Tin Woodsman" and a little less "C-3po" go meepo! I agree they are not robots, it is simply a phrase coined by someone in my party before the compition and it stickes in my brain :twitch: i will refrain from using this term in the furture. :evillaugh 'Forged Ninja Will Rule All :evillaugh |
| Orvar05-19-05, 09:49 AM | Marilith, hands down. Nothing (except the Tarrasque and maybe goblins) can beat something wiht six swords of wounding. I mean: POW! |
| Judicator Shekar05-19-05, 09:51 AM | Oh my god, please read my post above... IT'S NOT A CONTEST OF WHO WOULD WIN!!!!!! |
| Diefreak05-19-05, 09:51 AM | i have to say that a pixe half dragon is g a y and a hipy or a pot head will disagree with me but i say that in my opnion i think the devil is cooloer and my favorite while the pixie has no flavor for favorite ( flavor for annoying DM's but ..) as for tarrasque ....cube is gone it's over deal with it....and the pixe MAY BE WEAK BUT A PIXE IS VERY DEADLY AND HARMFULL so who CARE'S ABOUT STATS IT'S ABOUT YOUR FAVORITE ***ENOUGH SAID*** |
| Sulaco05-19-05, 10:26 AM | The Marilith is going to rip the Pixie a new stinkhole. Six new stinkholes in fact. This is your pixie... http://www.punchstock.com/image/foodshapes/4600002/large/potatoes.jpg This is your pixie on Marilith... http://www.rageboy.com/images/french-fries.jpg Any questions? |
| bloody_dagger8705-19-05, 11:42 AM | Here's a short story for all of you peoples. Completely unrelated to the competition, yet a good story non the less of competition. Enjoy! Dragon Hoard This was beginning to become tiresome. “Where are you…you damnable thief?” The red dragon stalked throughout his lair, grumbling and sniffing out his prey. The halfling had come at dusk, when the dragon was out hunting. The miserable thief was too over taken by greed and lust for money, so he had stayed around the lair, hoping for more treasure. The dragon wormed his way through a small tunnel, his wings scraping the rock painfully close. He would modify the hole later, now he had a halfling to take care of… The halfling, Jerai, was getting quite desperate. Most of his caltrops had been expended, and they probably wouldn’t do the dragon much harm anyways... He dashed through the tunnels, dropping caltrops occasionally, but for the most part running for his life. The bag on his back was heavily laden with gold coins and gems of various value and color. Some of the precious items leaked from the bag to drop on the ground, but Jerai paid them no heed; he had enough to tide him over for many winters, if he made it out... Ashardalon sniffed, momentarily drawing the ever constant line of smoke back into his nostrils. He smelled him, the thief was near, and he reeked with the enticing stench of fear. The dragon turned the corner, and there was the thief, just out of reach on a miserable ledge. Ashardalon chuckled “Come down, little one... do you not wish to show an old dragon your treasure?” Jerai jumped some, so enthralled by his escape he had not noticed the rank smell of the dragon, which now hammered his senses. He turned his head slowly, paling as the dragonfear set in. He slowly shook it off, a cold sweat clinging to his body “What do you care for some treasure? You have plenty of it amassed in a small mountain over there...” Jerai nodded towards where he had run from, and where the dragon’s hoard was. “Ah, Little One,” Ashardalon rumbled, “It is not how much I have, but how it is gained...” Jerai quickly retorted “Well then, stealing from a halfling isn’t very honorable, is it? Well, have a nice day!” he forced a smile to bear, the turned to the wall again, attempting to find a foot hold. Ashardalon reared back his head, and then shot it forward. His jaw spikes fanned as gouts of flame shot from his maw, roasting the halfling and his sack of treasure. When the fire died a small puddle of gold, with platinum swirls and random spots of melted gems, lay pooled on the ground. A charred skull rested in the middle, testament to Jerai’s foolishness. Ashardalon chuckled, and then waited for it to cool. Upon the metal retaining its solid state, he picked the odd trophy off the rock ledge, blew some dirt off, and then turned back to his hoard. This would be an interesting addition to his treasure, no doubt about it. |
| Hufish05-19-05, 11:44 AM | Marilith may be cooler, but the adventure around the pixie could be more entertaining. What's the Marilith going to do? Try to kill the party. What's the pixie going to do? Are you /really/ going to ask a pixie what it's going to do before it does it? That's like asking a tinker gnome for a simple explanation. They simply don't know how to answer the question. But, the pixie could either be the subject of a rescue attempt...maybe sponsored by the great wyrm gold dragon that is the parent. Or she might decide the party is evil and needs to be pranked to death. Lots of options with pixie, one option with Marilith. And besides...bleh. Evil devil to kill. So what? Give me something that helps provide story! :) |
| Epicfetus05-19-05, 12:00 PM | Am I the only one who feels that there's a problem with a warforge Ninja? 2 reasons. (1) Ninjas are Mamals. Ninjas Fight all the time. The purpose of a ninja is to flip out and kill people. Number 2 and 3 they can handle, but Constructs are NOT mamals. However, neither are adolescent turtles, so... (2) Ninjas arn't robots, Ninjas FIGHT Robots. To have a construct ninja is about as logical as a pirate caveman, ancient enemies don't mix. And when they do (see turtle reference above), they lose all good qualities from either "template"...ever see a Foot Clan Robot-Ninja last more than 3 seconds? NO. |
| Salazar05-19-05, 12:31 PM | The Pixie will win. Because I said so. Don't think about it too hard, it might hurt. |
| |)ar|{05-19-05, 12:37 PM | pixie halfdragons?? come on... how hard up was that gold dragon anyways? But seriously, I could see a pretty cool, all be it very annoying, adventure coming out of this crazy pixie. For coolness points it hard to beat a sixarmed demon dervish... only real downside is that you can't get the thousand cuts without going epic ... can you imagine that... thats like 20 attacks... shheesh. Still with just a couple of levels of dervish its moving 9 squares a turn, attacking with all 10 attacks (w/reach)... throw even some minor enchantments onto those swords and your talking 6 attacks at over +30 tohit (plus the other 4 that are still in the +20's) @ 2d6+12 each... I'd throw on wounding to make my players cry. don't get me wrong the pixie would make my pc's cry also but mostly out of frustration. Once again I'm going to have to say that I'd rather neither of these guys win it all in the long run... both are packing CR that would put them well into the high teens and out of the range of 95% of the games I play in. Go Meepo! |
| Airsucker05-19-05, 12:43 PM | I agree they are not robots, it is simply a phrase coined by someone in my party before the compition and it stickes in my brain :twitch: i will refrain from using this term in the furture. :evillaugh 'Forged Ninja Will Rule All :evillaugh Yep, the leap from war-forged to robot ninja was entirely too easy to make, so it's much easier to grasp than C-3po ninja. Not as funny, though. BTW, if someone from WoTC could answer this, it'd be nice: Does the winner get their own mini? |
| Dex The King05-19-05, 12:55 PM | This is a monster competition. As we are to vote for our favorite, this was simple for me. I've been DMing for a good three years now, and I must say that when it comes to monsters, I prefer smart, powerful, deceitful, and vile. The marilith is a CE demon princess, with mental stats better than most PCs can ever hope for. Her spell-like abilities of polymorph and greater teleport allow her to go amongst mortals with impunity, doing and saying whatever she likes. She could be leading mortals while in disguise, impersonating a queen, or even be the Big Bad End Gal running all the evil plots in the entire campaign as a marilith alone. Throw in the dervish levels, and a scary combatant becomes a downright combat terror, the kind of being that can solo dragons. And what's a pixie? A jovial nuisance. No contest. |
| Haer'dalis05-19-05, 01:06 PM | Well I think it's obvious, Paladin or not she has definitely used her charms on you! :D :P Heh yeah :cloud9: she asked me to help her kick the %$^ out of the illithid, which I'll do with pleasure :angel: (1) Ninjas are Mamals. Ninjas Fight all the time. The purpose of a ninja is to flip out and kill people. Number 2 and 3 they can handle, but Constructs are NOT mamals. However, neither are adolescent turtles, so... excuse me? Since when are ninjas only mammals? :twitch: |
| vutha_vaecaesin05-19-05, 01:07 PM | Oh my god, please read my post above... IT'S NOT A CONTEST OF WHO WOULD WIN!!!!!! Come on people! Vote for who you want to win, not who the books say stat for stat will win. Has DND ruined your own imaginations? |
| TheMantaCorp05-19-05, 01:36 PM | Where can i find the devish class anyway ? +1 for the pixie fairies WILL rule ! |
| fistanthius05-19-05, 02:07 PM | I voted Tarrasque. Not becaue of its stats, fighting ability or whatever. Cube is just a pathetic excuse for a monster. Probably developed by a guy looking at his d6 for a mini. All it is is a mobil jello mold. Tarrasque, although doesn't play a part in random dungeon encounters, has the potential to be the entire theme of the campaign. Also, I rarly search for cool pics of jello. The Tarrasque, however, has had some pretty cool pictures. I remember flipping through the MM in 2e and seeing the Tarrasque. I nearly wet myself...it looked soooo cool. Any-hoot. I'll pick the broken demon with the even more broken PrC. Fey smell of cabbage so I'm not a big fan. Oh yeah, and maraliths are usually topless... |
| Dirge05-19-05, 02:22 PM | I heard that there was this warforged who was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon the warforged killed the whole town. My friend Mark said that he saw a warforged totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window. (1) Ninjas are Mamals. Ninjas Fight all the time. The purpose of a ninja is to flip out and kill people. |
| Agraphia05-19-05, 02:44 PM | [QUOTE=TheMantaCorp]Where can i find the devish class anyway ? [QUOTE] In the Complete Warrior, my friend. Damn, I was to late to vote for the first battle. I'd like to see the cube that beats the Tarrasque. Wiz_O could have made it an axiomatic cube at least. Can't you just see it, geometricly perfect, beveled edges maybe. Anyway-- That marilith dervish is so uber an ideal I only wish I had thought of it first. She gets my vote. Picture her using A Thousand Cuts. Ooo-- that's viscous. She'll beat the Tarrasque too. Her own adventure would be really cool too. And we must keep in mind, people, that that's what all this is even for. Too bad Meepo is going to assainate her, if she gets that far. Meepo has reappeared in various incarnations in campaigns of mine since we first met him in Sunless Citadel and I've come to love the little geko-rat...he would chain acid me for calling him that. [checks the room suspiciously] |
| vutha_vaecaesin05-19-05, 03:06 PM | two words guys: Fern Gulley. faries can be dangerous 'cause they're never alone. |
| Thindelock05-19-05, 03:14 PM | To answer TheMantaCorp, Dervish can be found in Complete Warrior, p25. With just a little feat and skill switching from the norm, she'd qualify without core class levels. It allows for high-mobility fighting and, at higher levels, an absolutely absurd number of attacks Me, I'd like to see the Marilith Dervish win, possibly overall. As fun as a meepo-adventure might be, or a half-gold-dragon pixie for that matter, we've already got adventures both online and published that get into goofy, tongue-in-cheek situations at low levels. Look at the Book of Challenges... A Familiar Situation involves catching mundane animals loosed by an inept henchman without hurting them, and Temple of Draxion could easily become a comedy of errors if you've got the right set of players. Silly side-adventures are easy enough to come up with, if you ask me. Inventive, flavorful adventures for epic PCs is something I don't see nearly as often, and with good reason: few people play in Epic levels very often. Still, a nifty one-or-two-session adventure for epic levels would be a great diversion from an ongoing low-level campaign. If you're going to go Epic with her (you almost have to if you're adding class levels), Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting and Multi-Weapon Rend are just SCREAMING to be put on a marilith... if I'm doing my math right, she'd get 25 attacks (4 each for 6 swords, plus tail), or 50 if she uses A Thousand Cuts. Put her in a temple in some jungle setting surrounded by traps, yuan-ti, human cultists, and some advanced blackstone gigants (Fiend Folio) and you've got an awesome epic Indiana Jones-style adventure. To make it more interesting than a monster-slaying gig, perhaps she's stolen a powerful magical amulet of some description, and the goal is to get it back before she realizes its full potential. |
| Enterik05-19-05, 04:04 PM | Do they exist? If they do, then a small pixie package may be deceiving, especially if one adds class levels that enhance her ranged archery attacks while invisible, perhaps a Rogue's sneak attack and some archery feats. |
| |)ar|{05-19-05, 04:25 PM | going off topic to answer a question In response to the Question about "sense when are Ninjas only mammals?".... the person in question is quoting from "Real Ultimate Power: The Official Ninja Book". I can't even began to put into words what a complete and utter waste of time and money it would be for anyone to buy and read this book. To put it in Billy Madison term My Book review of "Real Ultimate Power" 0 stars This book is the most insanely idiotic thing I have ever read. At no point in its rambling, incoherent pages did he even come close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone whos read this book is now dumber for having looked at it. I award it no stars, and may God have mercy on your soul. Ok back on topic... after considering possible adventure that could be created if either of these won I'd have to change my mind to the pixie... not because its cooler... because its not... but because any mission that involved interacting with a CR 17+ demon is going to be much higher then I'm looking for... while the pixie is going to be high at least it doesn't have to be a direct conflict and thus hopefully the CR for the adventure will be lower. |
| The_Newborn05-19-05, 06:20 PM | Ninja's have to be mammals because the chakra/Ki power originates from their bodies living internal organs and their life experiences. A worforged is a sentient construct and has no living parts. 'nuff said. |
| lucky205-19-05, 07:17 PM | ...That is the "Easter Ninja". The DnD Ninja just requires that you train for it. And even if it did require you to have chakras, if I understand them correctly, they are more extensions of the spirit than anything else. Warforged, I beleive, have a spirit. Therefore, the Warforged can be the "Easter Ninja". |
| moonglum05-19-05, 08:23 PM | What about the whole clash of culture? A copper dragon would make sense but Gold. The two backgrounds opose each other. On one hand you have the pixie prankster which is lies, deciet and trickery! The Gold dragon on the other hand is nobel and all that paladiny crap. The only amusement I can see out of the pixie is the PCs giving it a counseling session. From the description it will only do it's thing on evil wayfarers so it won't get much contact with most PCs. Just because one of her parents was a gold dragon doesn't mean that she has to be LG. I see here as a pixie that is surpisingly physically tough. She is probably NG leaning towards chaos. I have used NPCs like this in many campaigns, and they are great. Frivilous, good, wise, and powerful, they irritate the PCs to no end. |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-19-05, 08:57 PM | that's the thing, little annoying flys that might as well be dead, or a big beastly maralith that commands battalions of demons! i mean, come on! she's just so cool, and sure pixies are all right, don't get me wrong, but there..... so...... like i said last time, not interesting, so what a dragon....... um...... mated with a pixie, and it produced some little annoying flyl that spits fire once a day, that's nothing cool, but come on, IT'S A DEMON DERVISH! |
| Falrion05-19-05, 09:24 PM | It`s is INSANE!!! 25 Attacks per turn!!! Just wait until she gets some speed weapons... 31 attacks!!!! 62 whith Thousand CUTS!!!!! OMFG!!! :OMG! :OMG! :drool: By the way, my whole party voted on that Sexy Scaled Devily Meat-Grinder... :D |
| moonglum05-19-05, 09:42 PM | that's the thing, little annoying flys that might as well be dead, or a big beastly maralith that commands battalions of demons! i mean, come on! she's just so cool, and sure pixies are all right, don't get me wrong, but there..... so...... like i said last time, not interesting, so what a dragon....... um...... mated with a pixie, and it produced some little annoying flyl that spits fire once a day, that's nothing cool, but come on, IT'S A DEMON DERVISH! You know, the actual whirling dervishes are sufis that believe in the oneness of all humanitiy and that they seek mystical union with god, right? Any demon is going to be tough, no big deal. If you have seen one demon, you have seen them all, really. How about a Marileth Kensai? Or a Marileth Swashbuckler? Or a Marileth Frienzied Berserker? Its just too easy. And its not interesting. They are all DEMONS. But they end up just being memorable trophies on the dining room wall once the PCs are through with them. A really tough half breed pixie, on the other hand, will last. And really, if you were playing in a high level campaign, what would you go out of your way to avoid most? I'd wager that in the end, it would be the pixie. |
| Ringmereth05-19-05, 09:54 PM | Add another vote for the PC-shredder. The fey isn't a horrible concept, but as stated above, there's nothing that it can do that the demoness can't do better and with way more class. I'm running an epic campaign, and I'm considering putting such a creature in, maybe even as a BBEG-it has enormous bonuses to ability scores and some great spell-like abilities that make it deadly as both an evil overlord and a melee combatant. |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-19-05, 11:19 PM | k, lets take this step by step...... You know, the actual whirling dervishes are sufis that believe in the oneness of all humanitiy and that they seek mystical union with god, right? kinda, but then again, alot of things arn't perfectly acurate in D&D, like this AWSOME BEAST, aka, the maralith. Any demon is going to be tough, no big deal. If you have seen one demon, you have seen them all, really. How about a Marileth Kensai? Or a Marileth Swashbuckler? Or a Marileth Frienzied Berserker? Its just too easy. And its not interesting. They are all DEMONS. yes, the majority of demons are gonna be tough, but demons are just so cool! and just too easy, i don't get it, a half dragon pixie is pretty easy, all ya' have to do is applie the half-gold dragon template to the pixie monster, it's quite simple. i think a demon with classes is very interesting, it's like fleshing out the character more then the monster manual provides. and since your taking the "there all demons" tone with me, i might as well say, she's just a dragon! gold blue silver red, there all dragons! what's so interesting about that! sure, her dad (or maybe, possibly, mom) decided to get with a silly little pixie instead, she's still JUST A DRAGON! But they end up just being memorable trophies on the dining room wall once the PCs are through with them. and the pixie would end up caught by a six year old and encased little glass jar. :D A really tough half breed pixie, on the other hand, will last. And really, if you were playing in a high level campaign, what would you go out of your way to avoid most? I'd wager that in the end, it would be the pixie. hmm, k, first, that pixie ain't tough, second, if i were in a high level campaign, i would rather fight a measley pixie, with a 7 CR then a whirling devil of death! and the devil might even have a little battalion for anyone that want's to go against her, so in the end, i think i'd rather go out of my way to mostly avoid the maralith, not the pixie. |
| Everythingstatic05-20-05, 12:20 AM | Marilith....scary, evil and unpredictable...armed with 6 longswords of Wounding? Death to anything with a Con Score...Plus I dont want to imagine how a Pixie gets a half dragon template... :eek: |
| newatreides05-20-05, 08:00 AM | That marilith dervish is so uber an ideal I only wish I had thought of it first. She gets my vote. Picture her using A Thousand Cuts. Ooo-- that's viscous. She'll beat the Tarrasque too. :heehee Did anyone else notice this? I saw this and actually laughed. Out loud. In the school library. :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :rofl: :rofl: ... It's spelled vicious. The gelatinous cube, on the other hand, could be described as viscous. :teach: Unless you meant something about the congealed blood resulting from the thousand cuts... BTW don't mind all the smilies, just getting used to using them. |
| Hufish05-20-05, 08:34 AM | Maybe they can do an adventure with both, where the gold dragon daddy of Lady Bestine hires the PCs to rescue his daughter from the evil maralith dervish with no sense of humor. And he offers to help equip them. Hey, big ole dragon offering toys? w00t! |
| The_Newborn05-20-05, 08:35 AM | Firstly I pointed out the whole clash thing earlier. Someone thought to have a rebutle (I really don't care who). I know that none of us know the alignment of the monsters (except the suc. pal -> though that is open to the varient pals from Unearthed Arcana). I also know that the half gold template doesn't automatically bring a LG alignment to the table. I do however know what the character description says. How many of you actually read them? I mean the first round. How many knew it wasn't just a gelatinous cube but THE gelatinous cube. or did you all miss the April Fools specials that WotC do so well. As for the greatness of the now boosted pixie. There isn't much there. It is still pathetic for a CR7. It has one HD. If it gets caught in an AoE spell the adventure is over, even if it was a friendly NPC. As many others have also pointed out, just because the marilith is an evil outsider with levels of a combat-orientated PrC doesn't mean it can't be a non-combatant. Hell, I can think up dozens more adventures using the maralith as a non-combatant NPC than that retarded pixie. As pointed out, anything the pixie can do the marilith can out do and with more class. |
| The_Newborn05-20-05, 08:36 AM | : ... It's spelled vicious. The gelatinous cube, on the other hand, could be described as viscous. :teach: Unless you meant something about the congealed blood resulting from the thousand cuts... Maybe if the victim had a periapt of wound closure |
| Kothardarastrix05-20-05, 08:38 AM | I voted for the Marilith, reason one I hate sprites, two I hate gold dragons, and three well whats not to like about a woman with the lower portions of a snake and four arms? :schemes: |
| Matjannan05-20-05, 09:38 AM | whats not to like about a woman with the lower portions of a snake and four arms? :schemes: Um. The lower portions of a snake and four arms? :twitch: |
| Matjannan05-20-05, 09:46 AM | as stated above, there's nothing that it can do that the demoness can't do better and with way more class. How about being a true ally? (not just a "i'm with you now because you're going my way" ally) I find it hard to think of a demon as a being you can trust at your back. The pixie, as described, may pull pranks, but will do little or no harm to *you*. (she may do a lot of harm to those who **** her off) |
| PrinceAzar05-20-05, 11:03 AM | Ok...lay off the drugs, buddy :) |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-20-05, 11:05 AM | A 4 ARM DEMON actualy, it has six arms A DRAGON F UCKED A PIXE OH MY about time someone said it, (someone may have said it in a section of this i didn't read) everyone had been hinting at the wrongness, but thatnk god someone came out and said it! |
| GraveDigger05-20-05, 11:16 AM | Hey everyone, this is my first post on the forum but I totaly agree it's not just wrong race wise but just the mechanics....Did the pixie grow did the dragon shrink? I don't wana know I voted for the six armed demon I love weapons of wounding but thats just me. PS GO Warforged Ninja down with Meepo! |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-20-05, 11:30 AM | hey, and welcome to the forums! i agree... DOWN WITH MEEPO!!!!!!!!!!1 but all the way for the succubus palidin |
| Haer'dalis05-20-05, 12:46 PM | hey, and welcome to the forums! i agree... DOWN WITH MEEPO!!!!!!!!!!1 but all the way for the succubus palidin Ah someone who sees and speaks true...that's heavenly music to my ears... go succubus !! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :angel: :cloud9: :love: |
| GraveDigger05-20-05, 01:01 PM | I feal bad cause I missed my chance to vote for the ultimate Killing machine teh Tarrasque I found this place to late. But It's never to late to comment! So here it goes. Lately in a quest series in an RPG I host for online I am doing a quest of crazy evil. It's not DnD so I had to modify allot of things to fit our system mostly dice roll stuff. Anyways the basic plot line is a group of Illithids calling them selves "The Cult of Horrors" are rying to awaken the tarasque at the same time an evil elf sorceror that was trapped in a dream world for about 1000 years was accidently released cause the party though they were in a dream and doing a good thing. So they release him and he gathers these books of evil that talka dn stuff and releases an Ancient Black Dragon Queen. So the group is now faceing a cult that wants to reign horror on the world with the Tarrasque and a ****** off black dragon that is verging on Demi Goddess in power. Not to mention a strange new force has taken over the human clan holdings and trying to conquer the all the rest. |
| Light Dragon05-20-05, 02:19 PM | gutterball Pixies, nixies, naiads, dryads, fairys, faeries, leprachauns, brownies, redcaps, boggans, wee-folk, gnomes, sprites.....all of them should cleaned, peeled, de-veined and consumed whole with cocktail sauce. I dunno... Red Caps are pretty nasty when you get them angry, If I remember correctly. I frankly place them in the same 'intestingness' category as Nessa Trolls. I mean, how often do you run across a Red Cap? And Red Caps, my friend, are anything BUT cute ;) |
| Light Dragon05-20-05, 02:22 PM | This is a poularity comp not a "Tarrasque should win cause it is so powerful". The Tarrasque is such a boring creature could they make it any more lame. They should have hit the cube with a template or two. Fully agree with that. Down with munchkins and ill-thought out monsters. up with Gelatinous Cubes, Koboldi, and Illithids! ;) (It's a shame though that the Illithid is going up against a Succubus- it has no chance :() |
| Light Dragon05-20-05, 02:27 PM | ... Wow, there's something inehrently wrong with a Half Dragon Pixie. Mainly... HOW THE HECK DID IT FIT?!? ah... dragons can change shape. That's why there are a bunch of half-dragon humans running around ;) as much as I hate the idiocy of the idea of half-fey half-dragon, by D&D physics- it COULD happen. |
| Judicator Shekar05-20-05, 06:04 PM | Come on people! Vote for who you want to win, not who the books say stat for stat will win. Has DND ruined your own imaginations? Thank you so much! It seems that somebody has been reading my posts after all (and here am I, thinking that because the topic is so long peopel just hit 'reply' without reading the opinions of others). Well, I guess I'll say it again. This is not a competition of comabative power. Sure, the Maralith would most probably demolish Bestine in a straight-up fight; but that is not a reason to vote for her. You see, this is a competition of which creature is your favorite, not over which creature would win. I, for instance, voted for the cube instead of the tarrasque, though the cube would most certainly get owned (that's just an example, I'm not still arguing over the cube). Once again, I must place the quote, as they are words to live by (well, maybe just 'words to vote by'). Come on people! Vote for who you want to win, not who the books say stat for stat will win. Has DND ruined your own imaginations? |
| Azuaron05-20-05, 06:43 PM | Fully agree with that. Down with munchkins and ill-thought out monsters. up with Gelatinous Cubes, Koboldi, and Illithids! ;) (It's a shame though that the Illithid is going up against a Succubus- it has no chance :() Come on, don't think like that! Extreme campaigning can sway people away from the Succubus to the Illithid! We can do it! Campaign away! What cooler center-piece for a campaign is there then a mind-controlling monster that doesn't even think the same way as anything from this world, and eats brains to boot! The Illithid will rule all! vote Illithid '05 :rimshot: :bounce: :pile: :clap: |
| Shebnar05-20-05, 07:11 PM | Come on, don't think like that! Extreme campaigning can sway people away from the Succubus to the Illithid! We can do it! Campaign away! What cooler center-piece for a campaign is there then a mind-controlling monster that doesn't even think the same way as anything from this world, and eats brains to boot! The Illithid will rule all! vote Illithid '05 :rimshot: :bounce: :pile: :clap: The Succubus Paladin has officially my vote since now. :drool: :inlove: :cheer: |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-20-05, 08:11 PM | yes! VOTE SUCCUBUS '05 the board seems to be comeing to it's senses, little by little though. and for all you complaining about people voting for creatures because they can squash other creatures, ever think the power and beefyness just appeals to them more? |
| Pan05-20-05, 08:20 PM | instead of campaigning for a vote to come, i'll just admit that i voted for the marilith dervish. i REALLY like the idea, and i'm sort of disappointed in myself that i didn't come up with it first. |
| Bard-of-all-trades05-20-05, 08:32 PM | This whole tournament is to decide which one of these 16 critters will be the main character used in an online module. Might I remind everyone what happened the last time Wizards had a tournament for something *cough*Eberron*cough*. One other thing, this warforged character seems to have no class or abilities. After all, there is no such thing as a ninja. Ninjas are only the fairie tales of a scared ruling class. Ninjas have never been proven to exist. You can't point out who is a ninja. There is no such thing as a ninja. |
| Everythingstatic05-21-05, 12:28 AM | There is no such thing as a ninja. Whoa... a sure firestarter that statement was. That's almost like saying there's no such thing as Pirates...or Dragons |
| Scaly One05-21-05, 01:57 AM | I voted for the Marilith, reason one I hate sprites, two I hate gold dragons, and three well whats not to like about a woman with the lower portions of a snake and four arms? :schemes: Why you tinkesss me voted 4 herrr? Me likesss ssscalesss :devil: |
| Sucros05-21-05, 03:54 AM | Marilith hands down. They finally bring up the posibility of an adventure with a fey-type in it, and I *still* can't benefit from resist nature's lure against it. |
| Vicki Cadae05-21-05, 05:22 AM | I voted against the pixie. Partially because she's half-dragon, partially because she's a pixie, but mostly because she's a half-dragon pixie. The weirder the templates and classes are, the less likely it is that I'll vote for the monster. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/lady1raven/meepo/Meepo_02.gif |
| GraveDigger05-21-05, 09:57 AM | Mind Flayers are by far my favorite creatures. They seem to me to be the most unique creatures and always give my charachters in Baldurs the most trouble with there annoying control people mind powers! Though Beholders are a pain too illithids will win my vote every time! Though....I have to admit this one time this Mind Flayer seems uber borring compared to the other things I have to chose from. In MY opinion though it may change again :P. I think the Beholder swashbuckler is the most unique and interesting creature put on this bored along with the Female drow lich greater iron golem really peaks my intrest. So I am going to vote for those two to make it to the finals! Imagine a whole series based on one of those would be just awesome. But for now the two we are on GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Marilith! Ohk friendly grave digger signin out! |
| Shebnar05-21-05, 10:10 AM | I will articulate my preference a bit more: the ones I like are the Succubus Paladin (and I like her the most....) and Meepo. Meepo is cool, hands down. But Meepo has already been featured in an adventure, so I think now it's the turn of the Succubus! :) ... Why not a crossover with the 'Amazing Adventures of the Succubus Paladin & Meepo'? :D ;) |
| Red_Decker05-21-05, 10:44 AM | I voted for Big in the first round because I want to see the Meepo vs. Big T final round. But I don't think it'll happen. Big T'll be out by the 3rd round. If the salad shooter doesn't get him, the 'Forged Ninja will. This round I'm going with the Marilith because I like swords. And I don't think the next round will be a FR vs Eberron thing because I'm pro-Faerun and I'm planning on voting the ninja. But all in all the win goes to the kobold. @Vicki Cadae, can I use your Meepo '05 sign? http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt Vote for http://www.geocities.com/farginaut/sorc_kobold.txt |
| vutha_vaecaesin05-21-05, 12:29 PM | People of The Realms unite and vote for Meepo! Not just in Cormyr or Waterdeep, not just in the Dales or Shining South. It will take all of Toril to win this battle for our favourite little kobold. |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-21-05, 01:42 PM | I will articulate my preference a bit more: the ones I like are the Succubus Paladin (and I like her the most....) and Meepo. Meepo is cool, hands down. But Meepo has already been featured in an adventure, so I think now it's the turn of the Succubus! :) ... Why not a crossover with the 'Amazing Adventures of the Succubus Paladin & Meepo'? :D ;) YES! thank you ! some common sense adn gennerosity! meepo already has a camaign, the succubus deserves one too! and the thought of a succubus & and meepo thing sounds cool, they should really do that! that'd be cool! |
| Kadasbrass05-21-05, 02:28 PM | July 4th shall no longer be an American Holiday, but the day when all Kobolds in one voice shout! We will no longer go quietly into the night! We will no longer hide in fear from level one (or higher) characters! We will live on! We will fight back! July 4th will be Kobold Independence Day! |
| reaperofnazgul05-21-05, 02:51 PM | Did anyone else have a horrible picture pop into their head when they read "the adventures of succubus paladin and meepo" |
| GraveDigger05-21-05, 04:11 PM | Nah the Drow/lich/greater iron golem is way kooler then the whole kobold race comdined and the sucubus paladin just doesn't flow! Oh can I use the Drow/Lich/Greater Iron Golem in an rpg I'm in? She would tie all the rest of the strangeness togeather in a very nice way. |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-21-05, 05:07 PM | i admit, that drow lich thing is pretty sweet, it's definatley taking my vote for the round, but when the succubus comes up, she will always have my vote, no matter who she goes against! |
| Shebnar05-21-05, 05:17 PM | Did anyone else have a horrible picture pop into their head when they read "the adventures of succubus paladin and meepo" Meepo is a lucky kobold. ;) Nah the Drow/lich/greater iron golem is way kooler then the whole kobold race comdined and the sucubus paladin just doesn't flow! Oh can I use the Drow/Lich/Greater Iron Golem in an rpg I'm in? She would tie all the rest of the strangeness togeather in a very nice way. Though hating the whole drow culture/world, I admit I like drow chicks. But I don't like rancid drow chicks, expecially when they are dumb enough to give their philactery to a creature vulnerable to a single rust monster. And expecially when they stink like a garbage can in July. So it's not the case that I give her my vote . |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-21-05, 05:24 PM | Meepo is a lucky kobold. ;) heck yes he is! |
| rcbobman197105-21-05, 10:10 PM | Whats it matter in the end of this we know its going to be the Tarrasque. That is all. |
| Vicki Cadae05-21-05, 10:20 PM | @Vicki Cadae, can I use your Meepo '05 sign? Please do. Spread the Meepo love! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/lady1raven/meepo/Meepo_01.gif |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-21-05, 10:22 PM | hmm, someone actualy wants the tarresque to go all the way...i thought when it was T vs G-cube people where saying stuff like that just to put down the cude, hmm, i'm not sure if he'll be able to go all the way, sorry to say, i when it comes to it (which we all know there arn't enough pixie people out there) i'm gonna vote maralith when she goes against big t in the second round. |
| The_Newborn05-22-05, 05:50 AM | Vicki Cadae you ROCK! :rimshot: Your Vote meepo gif is DA BOMB and welll over due. Thank the powers that there is someone like you! Two thumbs up! |
| The_Newborn05-22-05, 05:53 AM | Whats it matter in the end of this we know its going to be the Tarrasque. That is all. As if! He/She/It is sleeping through it's campaign and if it did somehow win, it would sleep through the module writen around it. SNORE! :zzz: Who wants an adventure based on an oversized paperweight? A VOTE FOR THE TARRASQUE IS A VOTE FOR NARCOLEPSY! VOTE ANYTHING ELSE '05 |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-22-05, 11:02 AM | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/my_little_shirtwaist_fire/vote.jpg |
| The_Newborn05-22-05, 11:47 AM | Having the vrock mount one would assume see is using the variant paladin from Unearthed Arcana. Now is see a Paladin of Tyranny or a Paladin of Slaughter? :devil: |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-22-05, 12:00 PM | not necessarily, as the succubs herself, her mount could also be redeemed which wold cause a change in alignment and the ability for a regular palidin to obtain such a mount :D |
| Count Dooku05-22-05, 03:01 PM | A succubus ia demon...a creature born in a plane of pure Chaotic Evil. One becomming a paladin is rediculus. OK...maybe very very very rare but possible. Throwing a second demon into the mix to serve as her mount just made the concept even more rediculus than a Beholder Swashbucker with an eye-patch and a parrot. GO MIND FLAYER!!!!!! |
| Odnasept05-22-05, 04:49 PM | hey, and welcome to the forums! i agree... DOWN WITH MEEPO!!!!!!!!!!1 but all the way for the succubus palidin I must agree with my fellow goth. Let's see the Succubus Paladin in an adventure! I want her in my party! -Odnasept |
| MasterChef PrC05-22-05, 05:58 PM | This is fantastic. I've never seen two competitors pitted together with this much on the line since Breakin' 2: Electric Bugaloo. A Merilith Dervish demon vs. A Gold Dragoned Pixie. It is easy to say that the Merilith will destroy a Pixie. Even under a well prepared situation, a pixie stands little chances against the demon. The pixie can, at best, disguise herself and come in as a fellow demon. Now if this happens when the merilith is dealing with a sudden breakup with her nalfeshnee lover, and has opted out on using her 24/7 true seeing (Due to emotion incapacitation), then the pixie has one chance to get the teary eyed lady to dance irresistably. If this fails the pixie will see another dance that she didn't want to encounter: Hell hath no fury like a merilith who has been dumped Even at best, a pixie can not withstand the emotional tornado of the whirling demon of belly dancing and 4d6+13 constriction damage. |
| Don Svin05-22-05, 10:14 PM | Badger is a pure, hardworking and through and through righteous beast of celestial good. Vote badger or get a drink. Baholders are babes. Vote beholder and see it dance. BEHOLDER-TANZEN!!! |
| delroland05-22-05, 10:18 PM | I voted for the pixie this round. As far as wickedness in combat goes, the marilith wins, hands down, but the dervish is a melee combat class, and most melee combats involve one side (the PC's) wasting the other side (the marilith). Standard hack-and-slash. This seems kind of dull to me. Plus, the marilith doesn't even have a name; this relegates it to the realm of "stupid monster we kill for XP" and "neato, this thing dropped six magic weapons!" Pixies are normally annoying little pests that we would love to fireball if the DM didn't look for any excuse for alignment change, but the fact that this being is Lawful Good means that it would act contrary to the party's expectations of pixie behavior. Lady Bestine would be a memorable NPC addition to any campaign and has lots of potential for being a recurring character. Plus meeting mommy and daddy could be infinitely amusing... |
| Kadasbrass05-23-05, 03:36 AM | I voted Pixie as well. Delroland makes an interesting point in reguard to flavor for a campaign. Even the Demon "Paladin" would lead to a interesting campaign if it was the Lawful Good type of Paladin (not a UA version), highly unrealistic in a D&D world but interesting. |
| Sirix05-23-05, 03:55 AM | I'd just like to say that I think the tarrasque is cheesy. I also think beholders and mind flayers are cheesy. You can talk all you want about how they're iconic D&D monsters, but they were invented by D&D to be iconic D&D monsters. bleh. (Although I have to say that none of those guys even approach the cheesiness of the drow/lich/greater iron golem vs. beholder swashbuckler matchup. When I saw that one my brain wanted to throw up. :pbbbtt: ) |
| newatreides05-23-05, 07:43 AM | about time someone said it, (someone may have said it in a section of this i didn't read) everyone had been hinting at the wrongness, but thatnk god someone came out and said it! I said it first, technically... Before they even released the results of the T vs. Jello match. I just sorta got tired of talking up the match that was technically over anyways. It's about the middle of page 10 if you want to check it. It might come across as hinting at it rather than just saying it, but I just didn't want to use any obscenities. |
| havershame_swordflinger05-23-05, 08:58 AM | ...After all, there is no such thing as a ninja...Ninjas have never been proven to exist. You can't point out who is a ninja. There is no such thing as a ninja. This just goes to prove how well these ninjas do their job, why do you think they could not put a name to this ninja...It's because nobody knows who it is. it could be the dock worker, or the local smith, or any of the other hundred warforged you see VOTE WARFORGED NINJA 05 |
| Diefreak05-23-05, 09:36 AM | Actually a devil is lawful evil and strikes bargains for survival while a demon is chaotic evil where's they kill on sight.....so is succubus a demon or a devil? becouse a succubus paladin is called A BLACK-GAURD and all paladins are lawful good....in PHB.But i think that she would be a cool character. I also have to say that a mind flayer is very deadly........Diefreak* |
| vutha_vaecaesin05-23-05, 09:49 AM | I'm pretty sure in the end it'll be meepo vs something. i'd personally love to see the little guy fell the big T |
| Hufish05-23-05, 11:27 AM | Actually a devil is lawful evil and strikes bargains for survival while a demon is chaotic evil where's they kill on sight.....so is succubus a demon or a devil? becouse a succubus paladin is called A BLACK-GAURD and all paladins are lawful good....in PHB.But i think that she would be a cool character. I also have to say that a mind flayer is very deadly........Diefreak* Actually, it describes her as redeemed...tells me she's probably LG. Most likely with the sanctified template from BoED. Which means she's hawt and good too! :angelhide |
| Enterik05-23-05, 12:45 PM | Demons are a dime a dozen, slinking around the background directing their nefarious minions to engage in run of the mill evil deeds. If you've seen one you've seen them all, why slay them when you can simply banish or imprison them? What I want to see is an epic level adventure with a nemesis for evil characters, and while it is true that evil can fight evil, for once I'd like to see a complex populated by forces of good. Thus I rationalize my vote for Lady Bestine... |
| Matjannan05-23-05, 01:09 PM | Although the idea of a succubus paladin is cool and interesting, it just occured to me that if she was Redeemed via the spell in BoED, then she no longer has her supernatural or spell-like abilities. (i.e. shapeshifting, charm, etc.) Granted, these abilities are usually used for deception (a most un-Paladinlike inclination), it nevertheless reduces the coolness of a succubus paladin. |
| Hufish05-23-05, 01:12 PM | But, if she has the sanctified template, that adds some coolnes, iirc. Don't have my copy of BoED handy since I'm at work. Yay work! :looloo: :whatsthis :ghosted: |
| Matjannan05-23-05, 03:22 PM | (As I am also at work, I do not have BoED with me either) IIRC, the only cool thing it adds is the eye beam thing. (Thought we were playing D&D, not X-Men ;) ) |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-23-05, 03:50 PM | since i have my BoED, this is what she get attacks:light ray qualities:aura of menace magic circle against evil tounges, adn that's pretty much all :( she's still a beast though :D http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/my_little_shirtwaist_fire/vote.jpg |
| GraveDigger05-23-05, 04:30 PM | Drow lich is awesome adn I want it to kick the swash buckling beholders butt! Among other things. >.>;. Anyways Vote Wroforged Ninja and Drow lich thing! That would be awesome for a show down. |
| Quintara05-23-05, 05:04 PM | This is all I have to say: VOTE FOR MEEPO '05 Because kobolds will eventually rule the world! :) |
| Shebnar05-23-05, 05:05 PM | A succubus ia demon...a creature born in a plane of pure Chaotic Evil. One becomming a paladin is rediculus. OK...maybe very very very rare but possible. Throwing a second demon into the mix to serve as her mount just made the concept even more rediculus than a Beholder Swashbucker with an eye-patch and a parrot. GO MIND FLAYER!!!!!! Ever heard of the Helm of Opposite Alignment? There was a build in the CO board Monthly Contest based on a redeemed Succubus Paladin (I can't find the link, but it was the February contest). It was a pretty good character, very funny to play. And, about redeemed villains, look for the BoED, pag. 17: as an example of a redeemed villain they displayed a Lawful Good Mind Flayer...who only eats the brains of little critters and defends Good and Justice throughout the World :rolleyes: ... This is fantastic. I've never seen two competitors pitted together with this much on the line since Breakin' 2: Electric Bugaloo. A Merilith Dervish demon vs. A Gold Dragoned Pixie. It is easy to say that the Merilith will destroy a Pixie. Even under a well prepared situation, a pixie stands little chances against the demon. The pixie can, at best, disguise herself and come in as a fellow demon. Now if this happens when the merilith is dealing with a sudden breakup with her nalfeshnee lover, and has opted out on using her 24/7 true seeing (Due to emotion incapacitation), then the pixie has one chance to get the teary eyed lady to dance irresistably. If this fails the pixie will see another dance that she didn't want to encounter: Hell hath no fury like a merilith who has been dumped Even at best, a pixie can not withstand the emotional tornado of the whirling demon of belly dancing and 4d6+13 constriction damage. As already explained, we are not talking about who wins, but who is the coolest character. |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-23-05, 06:33 PM | I must agree with my fellow goth. Let's see the Succubus Paladin in an adventure! I want her in my party! -Odnasept who wouldn't want a sexy girl that can kick ass in there party?!?! |
| Azuaron05-23-05, 06:38 PM | Having the vrock mount one would assume see is using the variant paladin from Unearthed Arcana. Now is see a Paladin of Tyranny or a Paladin of Slaughter? :devil: Just like to point out that the description (the handy little thing under their names in the match-up) says REDEEMED VILLIAN. This means chaotic good or lawful good (Paladin of Freedom and Paladin of normality, respectfully). Before you post stuff, read the description please. VOTE ILLITHID '05! |
| zank05-23-05, 06:49 PM | the tarrasque is a mighty beast and if you have read the passage about it you will see that the cube has no chance to win. to kill one of these things you have to get it down to negetive -30 and use wish to kill it or it will all ways come back. so if you wish vote for it. |
| zank05-23-05, 06:56 PM | come on vote for lady bestine she has some gold dragon in her so vote for her come on. she can also cast spells VOTE!!!!! |
| reaperofnazgul05-23-05, 07:21 PM | That succubus thing is in my sig |
| zank05-23-05, 08:09 PM | TARRASQUE ALL THE WAY!!!!! |
| Manyfist05-23-05, 09:31 PM | Vote for 'Forged Ninja (Who said that Constructs can't Dance? Dance Ninja, Dance!) , Berserker troll (Can't Die, if high enough level, plus Regen. which he can just pick up his arms if they get cut off reattach them and frenzy on... Sweetness), Drow lich (Because having an unstoppable undead thing, with her soul in the World above, it's Priceless when you can't get rid of her in a Module) Succubae, Yes singular, Paladin (Who wouldn't want this girl to be on your side? Alu Fiends my be plentiful after your done ;)), and Meepo (Kobolds are the Runt of the Litter, 1st level char. are their bane, yet Meepo stands above, mercilessly slaughtering all the 1st levels!) |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-23-05, 10:02 PM | succubus singular is succubi, not succubae, lol |
| MediocreSurgeon05-24-05, 12:38 AM | Look. Too many people are looking at this the wrong way. Instead of voting for the *coolest* monster, you should vote for the one that would make the coolest adventure. Between the cubes and the terrasque, I think the terrasque would make the cooler adventure (for some reason, there aren't many epic-level modules around). Between the marilith and the pixie "thing," the marilith would be cooler. The pixie is just too twisted. Between the warforgered ninja and the naga, the warforged is WAY cooler. I love constructs, and having a ninja is a VERY nice touch. It's a close call between the lich and the beholder... I'm drawn between my love of liches and constructs and my love for pirates (I'll skip this one). I think WOTC stole the frenzied berserker troll idea from me--I put them in an epic-level campaign, inside of an anti-magic field. They couldn't really die, and they whooped-butt. Both the giant and the unicorn are boring, and they should both be shot in the kneeecap (the unicorn four times). YES, THE SUCCUBUS IS COOL. I think that would make an EXCELLANT adventure (if there had to be a new adventure made, this would probably be the coolest). HOWEVER... My vote goes for MEEPO. I've actually role-played him as an NPC, and he is great fun for both the players and DM alike. However, he already has his adventure--it's time for another character to shine. However, if he wins (which would be cool), WOTC should make a sequel to The Sunless Citidel with him in it. Or maybe just give him a few levels (I think rogue would be fitting for his personality, the coward that he is) and put him in a higher-level adventure. SAVE THE KOBOLDS |
| Scaly One05-24-05, 02:31 AM | succubus singular is succubi, not succubae, lol (Actualy the word Succubus is from "true" Latin, so as confuse as it can be, is the singular. And the correct plural form, is Succubi, just like Hipocampus (one seahorse) and Hipocampi (two or more) :teach: ) Now me wantss to know 1 thing: Why they put no devilsss on the match? :allalone: |
| SnowbearK05-24-05, 03:48 AM | Because Demons are better beeeee-yotch! :P :cool: Actually I have no idea, I'm just in a funky mood tonight. :D |
| drasticale05-24-05, 05:11 AM | Meepo became a cohort of my players when they convinced him that all his friends left him. Meepo is totally a Ranger with goblinoids as his first favored, and dragons as his second... Meepo should totally be a Dragon Stalker! |
| Vicki Cadae05-24-05, 06:05 AM | i have to say that a pixe half dragon is g a y and a hipy or a pot head will disagree with me ::tongue very firmly in cheek:: Since I'm neither a hippie nor a pot head, I suppose I can't disagree. I wish I'd read this post earlier- if I'd known that Lady Bestine is a lesbian, I might have voted for her. :P Remember, everyone: Meepo is the candidate who truly understands the issues of the everyday reptilian. For oppressed lizardfolk and dragons everywhere. For Trogdor, and his right to burninate... Vote Meepo '05. |
| newatreides05-24-05, 07:46 AM | Vicki, where's that quote by diefreak from, I looked back a bit to quote it and couldn't find it. Well, anyway, diefreak, there is nothing wrong with being gay, and trying to insult something by calling it gay shows ignorance, close-mindedness, and conformity, none of those things have any place on any forum, and especially not such a one as this. Please, if you want to talk like this, there are many other places where you could do it and not offend anyone. In other words, "We don't take to kindly to the likes of you 'round here." BTW, could anyone tell me why the end date for this vote says the 23rd and it's 8:00 AM on the 24th? Do they wait 'til today to post the results? |
| Haer'dalis05-24-05, 07:51 AM | How many of you lizards out there...? none...? really? c'mon there has to be at least one... sorry Meepo, I'm afraid you've got noone to fight for. Tough luck mate. Vote Succubus '05 :cheer: |
| Haer'dalis05-24-05, 08:52 AM | i have to say that a pixe half dragon is g a y meaning happy? Yes, a pixie half dragon tends to be happy most of the time, that doesn't help it though ;p |
| Timeshaper05-24-05, 09:02 AM | Gay, like "...we're gonna have a gay old time!" (just before the yabadabadooo by Fred) from the Flintstones theme song.... Nothing wrong with that is it? |
| CaptKoolAid1305-24-05, 10:19 AM | Meepo FTW. Also I think the Terrasque should get chumped in the next round, it's a crappy creature anyways. |
| Diefreak05-24-05, 10:35 AM | First of i'm an honorable man so i'm sorry to every one that took it offansive and yes WOTC is propably mad but yea uh sorry dude.Any ways yea the pixe is not very flavorable to me due to the fact i like fighting classes i chose marilith becouse she's just cool and awsome not becouse she can fight and and propably kill the pixe but the canidate i vote for will not be casting otto's irrestible dance or glitter dust.Well this is my opinion and if any has somethin to say..Say it. |
| vutha_vaecaesin05-24-05, 11:29 AM | How many of you lizards out there...? none...? really? c'mon there has to be at least one... sorry Meepo, I'm afraid you've got noone to fight for. Tough luck mate. MEEPO ALL THE WAY!! |
| Enterik05-24-05, 11:30 AM | Come on Cows, vote or die :P |
| Mercurius05-24-05, 12:36 PM | I think I've actually got a quote up on the Creature Competition Page. I say "think" because I can't say for certain. If it is my quote, they mispelled my name, but if it's someone else, they have a name that's one letter away from mine. *shakes fist menacingly* |
| Enterik05-24-05, 01:09 PM | I think I've actually got a quote up on the Creature Competition Page. I say "think" because I can't say for certain. If it is my quote, they mispelled my name, but if it's someone else, they have a name that's one letter away from mine. *shakes fist menacingly* But the quote is yours, right? If so, you've been spellchecked, the effects simulacrum lasts as long as the page upon which it was manifested :P Regardless of the author, I am glad to see someone else prefers Lady Bestine to a bland powergaming demon. However, I think her Dragon heritage will prevent Lady Bestine from being merely a nuisance to any party of comparable level. And as I've suggested before, I'd like to see her running a complex of good critters as a non-evil challenge for an evil party, but then that would be novel... |
| Wotc_Mark05-24-05, 01:10 PM | Week 3 - "Ellith'rin" vs Warforged Ninja "Ellith'rin" Half-Amethyst Dragon/Iridescent Naga As a druid and master of many forms, this half-dragon wanders the world searching for lore and new creatures -- so that it can champion them, when needed. Warforged Ninja Composite plating doesn't impede this warforged's stealth -- and immunity to sleep and exhaustion means he can wait out the city guards while concealed within the shadows. VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE NOW! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050510a) |
| Epicfetus05-24-05, 01:14 PM | Ninjas FIGHT Robots, Ninjas are NOT also robots. Also, Ninjas are MAMALS. Ninjas fight all the time... |
| Warforged Ninja05-24-05, 01:18 PM | Ninjas FIGHT Robots, Ninjas are NOT also robots. Also, Ninjas are MAMALS. Ninjas fight all the time...I am NOT a robot! What's a robot? http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/monster_poll_warforged.jpg --WN |
| Matjannan05-24-05, 01:24 PM | I am NOT a robot! What's a robot? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: On a more serious note, I'm not voting for either. I don't like nagas. I don't like warforged. my vote = get rid of them both. *hopes this week goes by quickly* |
| zank05-24-05, 01:28 PM | Who will win all these battels? Who shall be the winner this you must decide with reason and wisdom. WHO would be the best to win it all? This on wich you must decide. /speaking like yoda is cool. |
| zank05-24-05, 01:32 PM | I voted for ninja because well he's a freaken ninja.And ninja's rule !!!!!!! |
| zank05-24-05, 01:35 PM | shouldent there be some drgons in these battels because that would make them even better wouldent it ?? |
| havershame_swordflinger05-24-05, 01:42 PM | The warforged ninja got my vote because it is the perfect killer, doesn't eat, doesn't sleep, doesn't get tired. It would make an exelent NPC villan or ally, a dark shady character feeding the PCs information all the while leading them down the path to their ultament dimise!!! :evillaugh Vote Warforge Ninja '05 |
| Xyl05-24-05, 01:44 PM | Robot. Ninja. Two great things that go great together. |
| Karelzarath05-24-05, 01:50 PM | There's no way some ill-thought-out concept that doesn't belong in D&D is going to beat someone as cool as Ellith'rin. Pfah! |
| Mercurius05-24-05, 01:57 PM | I voted for the 'forged Ninja, too. Not just because Warforged are cool. Not just because ninja are cool. But also because the combination was way better than whatever this "amethyst dragon/irridescent naga" contraption is. For the record, Enterik, I was originally going to vote for the dervish, until I decided that I like low CRs way better than high CRs. It means I'm much more likely to be able to incorporate it into my campaign. edit: @ Karelzarath: :rolleye2: |
| Manyfist05-24-05, 02:06 PM | Who says that Warforged are Freaking Robots? Robots are for Freaking D20 Future. Is it SO freaking hard to believe that a Walking, talking, sentient Construct is possible? Robots don't think unless they are programmed too, they are barely sentient (Unless you’re talking about SW Robots). Warforged are just your every day Living Construct. Yes living, they HAVE a SOUL! Robots don't HAVE SOULS. Ninjas FIGHT Robots, Ninjas are NOT also robots. Hmm.. What the hell have you been smoking? 'Forged are not Robots, if you want to call them Robots, then I shall just call you a Netherthal. Sure robots may look the same yet they aren't because robots not matter what have NO SOULS. Since when do ninjas fight robots? Also, Ninjas are MAMALS. Ninjas fight all the time... Again what are you smoking? A mammal isn’t required for Ninja, why, because what’s required is to have training. Ninjas aren't Born Ninjas they are trained in Ninjitisu. If you have to be a Mammal, why not just state, in order to become any thing you have to be a Mammal. Real Genius you are. :rolleyes: |
| gastropod05-24-05, 02:11 PM | The Warforged Ninja, now that is what I call "Real Ultimate Power" |
| Aston05-24-05, 02:12 PM | Ninja beats all, obviously. The naga will be just the first in a long line of felled opponents, all mercilessly chopped down by ninja power. Tireless and singleminded, he is the worst possible opponent for anyone. "Threat: Alright meatbag, but just remember that you have to sleep sometime.... And I do not" - Warforged Ninja. Make it so. Edit: Manyfist, the guy you're quoting is referring to www.realultimatepower.net with the mammal comment. Visit the site for all you ever wanted to know about ninjas! |
| Light Dragon05-24-05, 02:14 PM | I voted for the 'forged Ninja, too. Not just because Warforged are cool. Not just because ninja are cool. But also because the combination was way better than whatever this "amethyst dragon/irridescent naga" contraption is. I'll sympathise with this. I just can't stand some of the odd combinations. I mean, no matter how interesting next week's Drow Lich Iron Golem is going to be... it's a bit over the top with combinations. Therefore, I'll be foreced to vote for the pirate beholder with the odd little parrot... Nevertheless, either of the two is going to make for an interesting story ;) Whereas this weeks matchup- a warforged ninja... that's just odd. A construct that is amazingly bendable and can move silently, etc. It isn't even possible... and the half-dragon thing- another idiotic mating that doesn't really interest me. I was forced to vote for the ninja... but frankly, neither caught my fancy. -ld |
| KoboldSlayer05-24-05, 02:17 PM | I voted for the naga...however you spell that name. I'm not fond of either choice this week, but I don't use warforged or the ninja class in my campaign, so at least the naga I could maybe use. That's a BIG maybe because the half-amethyst dragon/naga is somewhat more wacked than anything I would usually use. But it's better than something I know for sure I would not use. |
| vutha_vaecaesin05-24-05, 02:22 PM | shouldent there be some drgons in these battels because that would make them even better wouldent it ?? there are half dragons is that not cool enough man? what you gotta be racists? :D |
| Tempus66505-24-05, 02:24 PM | I was going to vote for the naga, but then I realised it was a warforged ninja! |
| Falrion05-24-05, 02:28 PM | Ninjas FIGHT Robots, Ninjas are NOT also robots. Also, Ninjas are MAMALS. Ninjas fight all the time... Hey, Epicfetus... what the h*** are u doing? don`t do drugs before posting in the forum or play RPGs... It will mess u up in the head real good... Or at least, share with the rest... :rolleye2: :pint: I hope, the WF N beats the crap out of the Naga.. It´s akwardness (a contruct ninja??!! OMG They were doing the same stuff as Epicfetus... :mymy: Just Kiddin´... nice idea, really... :gah: ) makes it a really nice NPC for an adventure, heck, even a whole campaign... But we all know in the end there is only 1 possible winner... :cheer: :cheer: sucubus paladin '05 :cheer: :cheer: |
| havershame_swordflinger05-24-05, 02:32 PM | a word of advice to those who doubt the warforged ninja, repent for you sleep and he doesn't :evillaugh But seriously ninjas rock, and warforged are made of rock, and wood, and metal... :rolleye2: Vote Warforged Ninja '05 |
| sparticus_eleisum05-24-05, 02:46 PM | So, the the demonic General Grievus mother won, I am not surprised, everybody loves to fight a blender. But for this week, The ROBO-NINJA is my choice.:) |
| Monsoon2805-24-05, 03:03 PM | Like I said the Marilith totally p4wN3d the totally lame half-breed pixie. This week I think they're both totally lame. But I'll go with the Lame Half-Breed vs. the 'Oh Look! My Lodestone seems to be drawn to that corner, I guess that's where the NINJA is.' :rolleyes: Warforged Ninja gets my vote...for WORST ninja ever! |
| ursa2305-24-05, 03:05 PM | So, let me get this straight - You can enchant a 'forged's plating right? Like, with Silent Moves and stuff? :OMG! Suh-WEET. Ninja all the way |
| Enterik05-24-05, 03:17 PM | shouldent there be some drgons in these battels because that would make them even better wouldent it ?? Sure that's a half-dragon, but that's an Amethyst, psychokinetic, psion-level having dragon that lairs amongst long forgotten ruins like a sorcerous naga. In this case, an aberration among aberrations, she maintains a haven for all new creations. From time to time, she ranges out in order to ensure the success of a nascent species via her conservatorship, for example. That's more interesting than 'super-assasin without armor penalties' :rolleyes: |
| delroland05-24-05, 03:19 PM | Ninjas are infinitely more ineresting than naga, and it lets you use the word ninja as a DM, which will almost alawys catch the party's attention. "A warforged stands before you, notices you, then says, 'Ninja! Vanish!' Then he disappears." Party: :blink: |
| Ericol05-24-05, 03:28 PM | So far the toughest decision yet. Mostly I dont' like either. Can't stand the combination chracters/critters. WoTC needs to cut that crap out it's getting rediculous. Second, can't stand the warforged. Yes, they're not robots. Yes thy're magical constructs in a fantasy world. So what, they still seem way to much like robots to be major race. As a critter to face every now and then, fine. But not as a PC race. They're the biggest thing keeping me away from the Eberron world. Have to go with the warforged on this one though, but only because the concept is just barely more acceptible. |
| tarrasqueDM12305-24-05, 03:42 PM | Yes, I think I am getting much better at this.Both my votes have won so far and I hope this one does too. :) Okay, I don't know much about Warforgeds but my vote obviously goes to the Warforged Ninja. Why? Well, Nagas Have always gotten on my nerves :mad: and it just does'nt appeal to me. :thumbsdow The ninja on the other hand is AWESOME :eek:I mean he would fit perfect in my campaign.And even though I don't know much about them Warforged just seem realy COOL even if it had no other abilities it would be perfect to hire for a nighttime gaurd or something.So the warforged is a Yes. :thumbsup: |
| Enterik05-24-05, 03:48 PM | I voted for the 'forged Ninja, too. Not just because Warforged are cool. Not just because ninja are cool. But also because the combination was way better than whatever this "amethyst dragon/irridescent naga" contraption is. For the record, Enterik, I was originally going to vote for the dervish, until I decided that I like low CRs way better than high CRs. It means I'm much more likely to be able to incorporate it into my campaign. edit: @ Karelzarath: :rolleye2: Yes, I can understand the need for low CR adventures, in fact, my only campaign has a party level of 1+1, all of them half-breeds or shapechangers :rolleyes: ,what's a DM to do but make them pariahs :P Which brings us to my preference for Ellith'rin, I might be able to use her, if I were desperate enough to use a prefab. And when it comes to recreational reading of adventures, which is what these online offerings are for me, I still find the dragon-naga more interesting. Chalk it up to personal preference. As far as CR goes, I guess either in this weeks battle could be adjusted by altering the relevant class levels, but then, how many online modules go that far? |
| pawsplay05-24-05, 03:48 PM | I just can't stop thinking about ninjas. |
| eye_sac05-24-05, 04:05 PM | So, obviously I voted for the Warforged Ninja. I mean, its a Warforged and a ninja. how much cooler can you get? |
| Zevox05-24-05, 04:14 PM | I voted for Ellith'rin because I like both Nagas and Half-Dragons and dislike Warforged and (to a lesser degree) Ninjas. You can't get much simpler than that. Zevox |
| GraveDigger05-24-05, 04:46 PM | Warforged Warforged hes our construct! If he can't win no one can! :cheer: Ok now that I have that out of my system I voted for the Ninja just cause the naga...Well I played Ruins of Mythdranor and the nagas screwed around with me to much and so now they will pay! ~Begins making abunch of warforged ninjas!~ :invasion: oh and I have decided to help bunny on his way to world domination So soon you will see bunny rampaging it up Via the Grave Digger. oh I found a the more smileys thing ^_^ I'm happy now. :OMG! :OMG! Good day :tiphat: |
| sinmissing05-24-05, 04:49 PM | I voted for the "Ellith'rin", since she's a druid and might have access to Rusting Grasp. That warforged is dust. |
| Lazaro05-24-05, 05:52 PM | Vote for the Warforged Ninja, the Lord of Blades commands it!! |
| Manyfist05-24-05, 06:09 PM | I voted for the "Ellith'rin", since she's a druid and might have access to Rusting Grasp. That warforged is dust. Hmm... You don't really know jack about that. 2d6 at Max. :rolleyes: That's a real Dozy... :rolleyes: Seriously every one Warforged are not that Bad, if you are punking out because "They're too Similar to Robots" then you shouldn't be playing D&D. D&D has Tons of Constructs, and even Half Constructs. :eek: If you start complaining about them, then complain it secretly. Eberron rocks, FR doesn't. I do admit FR books are Interesting. :P PS: Drizzit is a Cry baby, yet he kicks major Arse. |
| zank05-24-05, 06:12 PM | vote for the ninja i mean whats cooler a naga or a freaken robot ninja?!? |
| Manyfist05-24-05, 06:21 PM | All I have to say is What Fricking wrong with WOTC, they put Two Half-Dragons, and a Half-Clest.... Obvisously some one in the Co. Likes a bit of Interspecies love. :rolleyes: Warforged, the Deadliest assassin yet... why? For the Simple fact that Ninjas can dance! Go ninja Go Ninja go! Its your birthday and you know it... lets party like its your birthday! :P |
| Azar05-24-05, 06:26 PM | Well, I've never been a fan of nagas, and I don't really know any one who is...so the warforged looks like it will take first. But! The naga could get off on a technicality! According to a very reliable source (http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm) Warforged cannot be ninjas! (Just as Epicfetus has pointed out) Can a Warforged fight all the time? Yes Can a Warforged flip out and kill people? Yes Is a Warforged a mammal? Most likely not... |
| Ouranos Harpy05-24-05, 06:34 PM | I voted for Ellith'rin; the half amethyst dragon/Naga. Seriously, I can't believe warforged is even a choice. Ugh, how unoriginal is that? Uuu... look at me I'm a robot who can move quietly. Pfft, warforged are essentially heaps of junk animated together. Gimme Naga anyday. |
| GraveDigger05-24-05, 06:43 PM | It has been stated that constructs ARE NOT NINJAS!!!!!! I wish you all would stop saying they are. Secoundly why does a ninja have to be a mamal? Who made that up? Why not a lizard ninja? Huh? Some one show me the logic behind Mamals only. Sides as far as I understand it the warforge or the constructs have souls. Anyways nagas suck the big nut. Go warforged! |
| Matjannan05-24-05, 06:45 PM | It has been stated that constructs ARE NOT NINJAS!!!!!! Did you mean "It has been stated that constructs ARE NOT *ROBOTS*!!!!!!" ;) |
| GraveDigger05-24-05, 06:52 PM | This is just a test. can you all see my signature? |
| GraveDigger05-24-05, 06:54 PM | Did you mean "It has been stated that constructs ARE NOT *ROBOTS*!!!!!!" ;) .....Wow i screwed that up. yeah....Constructs are not ROBOTS!!! there. Thats what i wanted to say lol. :P |
| scaryfroman05-24-05, 07:10 PM | Unless that naga is a pirate, it doesn't stand a chance... |
| feartheinvinceblehamster05-24-05, 07:21 PM | Succubi is multiple, succubus is singular. i vote for ninja, methinks, unless it says what eltwhatevertheheckitis class is |
| Half-Fiend Monkey05-24-05, 07:26 PM | I voted for the warforged nija because it combines two good things to make one awsome thing :cool: :w00t: :clap: . The half-dragon is combining a okay thing with a cool thing to come up with something just ... meh :bored: |
| rampant05-24-05, 07:42 PM | Warforged ninja all the way baby realy name a cooler character on the whole list I defy you to tell my who and how someone on that list could be cooler than the ninja |
| Azuaron05-24-05, 07:44 PM | PS: Drizzit is an Cry baby, yet he kicks major Arse. You know, theOnion.com even told me in my horoscope that this would get me killed, but anyway. An Cry baby is improper. Only have "an" if the noun starts with a vowel. Otherwise it's "a." That's one I've never had to tell anyone, since most learn it in kindergarten. Well, I've never been a fan of nagas, and I don't really know any one who is...so the warforged looks like it will take first. But! The naga could get off on a technicality! According to a very reliable source Warforged cannot be ninjas! (Just as Epicfetus has pointed out) I'd just like to point out that (obviously) Warforged CAN be ninjas in D&D. Apparently, ninja work under different rules in this fiction. Since the guys who started this competition MAKE all the rules for their fiction, it is possible for a construct to be a ninja. Stop your whining, move on, you stupid people. Don't argue against the game developers, argue against the creature. I voted for the 'forged Ninja, too. Not just because Warforged are cool. Not just because ninja are cool. But also because the combination was way better than whatever this "amethyst dragon/irridescent naga" contraption is. I'll sympathise with this. I just can't stand some of the odd combinations. What's the deal with the hatred towards odd combinations? That's what makes D&D so great, the ability with templates, classes, and other random things to make an infinate variety of whatever that you can do anything with. Odd combinations are the coolest part of D&D, and if you don't like it, why don't you just play a medieval Europe RPG without magic in it? You're trying to reduce the creativity of the game down to whatever is initially printed in the Monster Manual, with no independent thought involved. Now, if you're still reading, I decided to vote for the Warforged Ninja. Not because he's a Warforged. Not because he's a Ninja. Not because he's a Warforged Ninja. Also not because I violently hate the Naga. Just because I'd rather have a villain than an ally, and the Naga champions good causes. At least the Ninja has a chance to be evil. (If nothing else, it's certainly chaotic.) |
| The_Newborn05-24-05, 08:15 PM | My vote goes to the Warforged ninja. It has two of the three staples of anime. 1. it is a death-bot 2. it's a ninja if only it were also a large breasted school girl... :love: Vote WMD (Warforged of Mass Destruction)! |
| Quintara05-24-05, 08:36 PM | I voted for the Ellith'rin because it was not voting for the Warforged Ninja. All we need is another boring, standard, normal character. Come on people, how can you not vote for a naga/dragon! Besides, druids kick ninjas' butts. |
| bookwurm05-24-05, 08:39 PM | did anyone actually vote FOR the naga?? not that i did. warforged ninja :bow: :bow: :bow: |
| Azar05-24-05, 09:46 PM | Heheh, sensing a lot of hate on the Real Ultimate Power stuff, so I guess I'll drop it. The thing is, both of these characters will be rather odd when placed into the adventure, am I right? I seriously doubt that the Warforged can be worked into an adventure in a serious manner, and Elith'rin is just a garbled mass of templates and class levels. I mean, a half dragon/naga druid, with the Master of Many Forms PRC? Sounds like someone is having a field day with savage species... But I guess its not for us to see where these characters are going to fit into the adventure... So I guess you just vote for the lesser of two awkward characters. |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-24-05, 10:09 PM | ok. this was super easy, it's simple really, i hate nagas! don't ask me why, i just have always had this passonite hate twords them, i don't know why, don't ask me why, i just hate them..... on the other hand i also voted for the ninja 'cause ninja's ROCK! and i have some very good friends that are ninja's, and it would be wrong to betray them so. |
| Manyfist05-24-05, 10:49 PM | http://www.manga-media.com/artwork/commissions/ninja.jpg Ninjas rock, and they can do flips! Did I mention Ninjas Dance? I am not kidding. A real ninja are secretly break dances during his off time. See this pic. Illustrates such. When you see some one break dance and another person starts hatin then that person is missing as soon every one turns their attention from the Break Dancer? That was Ninja action. PS: Does it take any one else three tries to post an URL? :confused: |
| OmiKapSi05-24-05, 11:02 PM | I wonder if they made this match-up just to see how much of a land-slide they could engineer. A ninja anything would have won against just about any non-ninja. Not that I'm a drooling ninja fanboi, but I'm seeing plenty of them, and that's just the ones who are vocal about it. Tack this on to the fact that a druid/shifter naga/gem dragon is such a bizarre set of variables that it will seem contrived no matter what the background. It'd be quite a sparkly creature in it's natural form though. I was almost tempted to vote for the naga out of pity, but I didn't. |
| anarco_rata05-24-05, 11:23 PM | He's a freaking ninja! AND a warforged! THAT'S what i call a killing machine!! -stil, vote for meepo when the times comes! |
| Valmor05-24-05, 11:33 PM | Either choice is equally bad this week. Thinking about warforged ninja is as weird imagining a beholder ballerina with tutu (BTW, do you think it would use its eyestalks to make a “pas de deux” upside-down?), while a half-dragon naga is just another reminder of the filthily nameless draconic sexuality practices (and I mean nameless literally: at this level it isn’t even zoophilia anymore!). Either way it doesn’t matter who’s going to win between them as, ultimately, the only true choice is the SUCUBUS PALADIN!!! But I’m not going to wait for her due victory to ask HOW ON EARTH IS THAT SUCUBUS LOYAL GOOD!!! (That’s TWO opposite alignment changes for you!) Not to forget that the Book of Exalted Deeds specify that Evil outsiders are BEYOND redemption! I would really like to have a good explanation for that, as I have a soft spot as DM for redeemed evil creatures (and also have a “quirk” for evil infernal creatures since that love story between a demon and a devil in the 2nd Ed. “Blood War” box set!). I guess it may be done by a helm of opposite alignment, but that’s not really very irrevocable, and if my memory is accurate, the 9th level spell on the BoED would not work on her. If anybody has an idea of how to consistently turn a demon into a champion of good, it would be greatly appreciated. Sucubus Paladins Forever!!! (But Meepo could be a close 2nd...) |
| earthwizard05-24-05, 11:45 PM | I voted for the naga, and here is why . . . I want the succubus to win. Let's face it, the succubus is totally cool. This character has conflict and you know it, she's not some silly warforged ninja. Any warforged can be a ninja, but it takes a character to be a succubus paladin. For anyone missing the logic here, I believe the succubus may have some competition from the ninja, after all, it is a respectable creature. In order to prevent a succubus/ninja match, I'm voting for the one who I know the succubus will beat. Imagine the history - this succubus could be riding on the edge of falling evil again - always on her guard and always battling the evil which once consumed her. Shoot, if the succubus doesn't win this tourney I'll write my own adventure about her. Then I will rule the world!!!! (okay, maybe not that last bit) |
| JuxtaPoser05-25-05, 12:10 AM | C'mon, nagas rock! I've loved those guys ever since L5R! Granted, this one's a particularly strange naga, with all those templates, but as nagas go, the stranger the better! So tally this as 1 vote for Ellith--gak!! :eek: --JuxtaPoser's rantings are abruptly cut short by the poison-dipped shuriken protruding from his forehead-- |
| Areuth05-25-05, 12:45 AM | Does any of this matter? The Badger will obviously triumph over all! |
| Marshall Stone05-25-05, 01:10 AM | How can a warforge ninja win a battle against a named, half-dragon, Druid, Naga? With stealth and style. I voted for the Warforged Ninja, it seemed like the underdog to me and I usually go for the underdog. Which is why none can stand against the awesome might that is Meepo! |
| Scaly One05-25-05, 01:39 AM | Asss me said before, me votesss forr my ssscaled rrelative, me likesss forrked tonguesss... Missstresss isss alssso voting forr Ellith'rin, even it'sss not cromatic. The only thing that makesss me think about the Ebizzarreon thing isss that it may have anotherr pairr of arrmsss and use lightsssaberrsss, maybe it can walk on all sssixxx two :rolleyes: Now me ssseesss: they crossssed the General Grievusss with Ravage (Does anybody remembers Transformers?) to make the norr turtlle norr teenage thing... Me jussst sssad that in the end, Ellith'rin will meet Meepo and will be no match forr him... |
| Sirix05-25-05, 03:37 AM | I voted for the robot ninja. :dancin: |
| ursa2305-25-05, 03:56 AM | OK, seriously. There is a simple reason I voted for the warforged Ninja, and it is solidly based in the opinions of columnist Dave Barry: any title over three words long is a headache. Ergo (vis-a-vis, concordantly), Warforged Ninja v. Half Amethyst Dragon Iridescent Naga Druid = Warforged Ninja. According to Barry, the Naga should be drug out into the street and shot for being so complicated. Also, Succubus Paladin shall conquer all. |
| Santrilla05-25-05, 05:14 AM | Oh god, I've just realised that this is all going to come down to a fight between a warforged Ninja and a beholder Pirate. The internet is a terrible, terrible place. :D Anyway, I voted for the ninja because a) nagas suck (oooo, a snake with a human head. I'm SCAAARED) and b) ninjas are cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet. :P And c) the naga is WAY too greedy with premodifying adjectives. It's the equivalent of a double double half-caff skinny tall chocolate vanilla latte. |
| Crimsonsun05-25-05, 05:39 AM | My vote goes to the Warforged ninja. It has two of the three staples of anime. 1. it is a death-bot 2. it's a ninja if only it were also a large breasted school girl... :love: Hat of Disguise anyone? |
| Vicki Cadae05-25-05, 06:02 AM | The naga is unique because her parents didn't want to mate with thier own species. The warforged is a living being of metal and stone who was created for war and chose a path of training that would make him a highly skilled killing machine. If I were a warforged, I'd want to be a ninja too. So I voted for him instead of the potential dragon who was tragically weakened by her naga parent. [insert Real Ultimate Power reference here] http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/lady1raven/meepo/Meepo_02.gif |
| bgt05-25-05, 06:56 AM | I voted for Ellith'rin. She's got psionics, arcane might, and divine blessing. And scales. Can't beat the scales. All you guys got was Flipsy the Wonder Bot. |
| Morka05-25-05, 07:34 AM | My favorite character in Mortal Kombat is Cyrax, a Cyborg Ninja. So I vote for the Warforged Ninja, the closest thing to Cyrax! On the other hand, who is Meepo? What are his classes and templates (if any?) I'm gonna vote for him only because he seems so simple compared to the other ones, but in the same time, I would like to see his Curriculum Vitae before giving him the Gold Medal... |
| newatreides05-25-05, 07:48 AM | I voted for the Ellith'rin because it was not voting for the Warforged Ninja. All we need is another boring, standard, normal character. Come on people, how can you not vote for a naga/dragon! Besides, druids kick ninjas' butts. I could vote for a naga/dragon. But Elith'rin or whatever isn't a naga/dragon. It's a half AMETHYST dragon/ half IRIDESCENT naga. seriously, like I've said before, Wizards, please keep it simple. I don't know what either of these templates or whatever they are mean, and that's because I don't want to. Who cares if the naga's colorful? Who cares if the dragon tends toward a particular rock? Stop with the bloody templates already! They're annoying! Quintara, normal characters sound like a great alternative to the outlandish additions made to these monsters. Geez, it seems like every creature here has something special, something never seen before. I hate to say this, but this much originality can get boring. And how did you manage to give every creature a template without a single lycanthrope? I for one would love to see lycanthropes make an appearance. VOTE LYCANTHROPES '05!!! ... oh right, there are no lycanthropes, they're all half-dragons! PS. I have now developed a rule for voting: I will not vote for anything that has more words in it's name than X-Files has conspiracies. |
| Sect05-25-05, 08:08 AM | I'm voting for the ninja because I think robots CAN be ninjas, and living robots especially so. However, I pray that the Beholder Swashbuckler doesn't advance, because we really do not need another "pirate vs. ninja" argument here. |
| Orvar05-25-05, 08:37 AM | Warforged Ninja, because... well... he's just cooler. |
| Judicator Shekar05-25-05, 08:58 AM | I must say guys, this is a terrible match up (sorry about not voting earlier --- I was held up). 1) Ellith'rin: A perfect example of what's wrong with 3.5. It's the good old, "lets tack on some templates" trick. The concept, though, is decent (the whole druid thing), and would probably make for a better adventure than the ninja. Which brings me to point #2. 2) Warforged Ninja: Great! An Eberron-only character that seems to be the obvious winner going into this competition. I understand how Eberron players vote for this character, they definately have something to gain from it. The rest of you, however (that includes all of the FR players such as myself who were summarily offended by Manyfist and one of his posts), will end up with an adventure on your hands that you cannot use (or at best must modify extensively). Remember, this is a competition whose prize is an adventure. So, based on my above comments you would assume that I voted for neither or at least heavily criticised them both. Well, that would be logical, but, I must confess to having voted for the Naga. The reason being that all of the overwhelming arguments supporting the WF have usually boiled down to the "ninjas are cool" argument. That's childish and a poor reason to vote (I'm sure there were folks out there that had legitimate reasons to vote for the WF, I'm not generalizing here), and it made me 'angry' enough to vote for the opposition. |
| davethebrave37105-25-05, 10:04 AM | Sure that's a half-dragon, but that's an Amethyst, psychokinetic, psion-level having dragon that lairs amongst long forgotten ruins like a sorcerous naga. In this case, an aberration among aberrations, she maintains a haven for all new creations. From time to time, she ranges out in order to ensure the success of a nascent species via her conservatorship, for example. That's more interesting than 'super-assasin without armor penalties' :rolleyes: I concurr. My vote went to the more interesting of the two. Plus, I love gem dragons to death. |
| davethebrave37105-25-05, 10:06 AM | ...we really do not need another "pirate vs. ninja" argument here. Pirates vs. Ninjas? Please, ninjas win. |
| DuskyFruit05-25-05, 10:11 AM | I hate the idea of the naga thing, it really seems like a character a PC munchkin could come up with just to irritate his DM, besides I hate the idea of a non-evil naga and I really hate the idea of a naga druid :rant: |
| davethebrave37105-25-05, 10:24 AM | I hate the idea of the naga thing, it really seems like a character a PC munchkin could come up with just to irritate his DM, besides I hate the idea of a non-evil naga and I really hate the idea of a naga druid :rant: I love the idea of the naga thing, it really doesn't seem like a character a PC munchkin could come up with just to irritate his DM, unless his DM gave his party a ridiculous amount of levels to work with, in which case he'd come up with something a lot more powerful, besides, I love the idea of a non-evil naga and I really love the idea of a naga druid. :rant: |
| GraveDigger05-25-05, 10:36 AM | Ohk soo the warforged ninja is awesome So what if the relationsship of teh naga is nasty. Lets all just face it and admit the Drow/Liche/Greater Iron golem is better then all of them and face the fact that she needs to go all the way to the end and have her own series. I mean come on! Magical abilities awesome armor rating! shes ~DROW!~. The perfect evil mastermind behind a whole plot! Make an awesome quest! |
| Matjannan05-25-05, 11:19 AM | I hate the idea of a non-evil naga and I really hate the idea of a naga druid :rant: Why do you hate the idea of a non-evil naga? The core book has one that's usually Lawful Good. (Guardian Naga) (Not that I'm defending the naga here. I don't like them much no matter their alignment/breeding/etc.) |
| DMsDelight05-25-05, 11:36 AM | I voted for the Ninja. After recently acquiring both Complete Adventurer and Eberron Campaign Setting, I immediately saw the awesomeness of the two paired. Never sleeping, keeping silent vigil over those he kills, waiting for the perfect time to strike. The adventure based on it would kick butt, whereas the drow lich thing seems way too typical. I want to see flavor, and the warforged Ninja has FLAVOR. |
| Rasmus Wagner05-25-05, 11:50 AM | Come on...let it roll on the tongue....war-forg'd nin-jaaahh... No contest at all. |
| delroland05-25-05, 11:51 AM | With all the crossbreeding template action going on in this contest, I propose we make the Bloodhound Gang song, "Discovery Channel" (or whatever it is called), the official theme song of the thread. Anyone second this motion? |
| TempestadiossA05-25-05, 11:57 AM | Hey there :) My vote goes for the half-dragon naga: it's just too cool to pass over! Moreover, I don't quite fancy the overall warforged ninja concept... As for the previous matches (sorry for not posting before), I voted for the Tarrasque (for I think the gelatinous cube is one of the stupidest monsters ever) and for the Marilith dervish (for it is one of the most flavorful concepts in the whole contest, imho. If it wasn't for that even-more-flavorful Succubus paladin + Vrock mount, I'd want the Marilith dervish to win the whole thing). Cheerz :) |
| Enterik05-25-05, 12:55 PM | I voted for the Ninja. After recently acquiring both Complete Adventurer and Eberron Campaign Setting, I immediately saw the awesomeness of the two paired. Never sleeping, keeping silent vigil over those he kills, waiting for the perfect time to strike. The adventure based on it would kick butt, whereas the drow lich thing seems way too typical. I want to see flavor, and the warforged Ninja has FLAVOR. Yeah, that's an exciting adventure, stumble around until you get sneak attacked by a dice-roller's fantasy character, probably as you sleep :rolleye2: The best scenario I see (culled from the monotonously feeble justifications for the warforged ninja) is that the party is engaged for guard duty in order to protect an important personage from the inevidable assasin, they must plan their defense wisely to close all avenues of attack and utilize their fortitude, faith and magic in a life or death battle with the impulse to dream of a more interesting adventure... Even the best case-scenario is a snooze-fest :bored: And the use of 'inevidable' was an intentional reference to the pre-existing constructs that already fill the niche many imagine for the war-forged ninja |
| Pneuma00105-25-05, 01:02 PM | I am not voting for either contestant this week because I don't care for either one and I'd rather the rest of you had your say in who would go against my champion. I rolled up a Succubus Paladin and she was a pretty good role-playing character, but not so much of a combat tank. I assumed that she would be a evil Paladin, and gave her two measley levels of Paladin, and appropriate equipment for her effective character level. She had Wild Mithril Full Plate +1, a cloak of charisma +2, a circlet of persuasion +3, gloves of Dex +2, Belt of Giant Strength +4, Ring of protection +1, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, and was weilding a Unholy Flaming Blackmetal Greatsword. Of most interest were the legendary persuasion abilities. From being a succubus, it gets +10 charisma, which I assigned it's highest stat, and then added the charisma bonus from the cloak. The total Charisma modifier came out to +12. Because it is a 2nd level Paladin, it has Divine Grace and gets to add that charisma bonus to all of it's saves, making them somewhere around +21, +19, +20... or so. On top of those huge bonuses, she has telepathy, can speak in tongues, and shapechange to any humanoid form, while keeping her armor on. If it can't just talk you into doing what it wants, then it would use it's suggestion spell-like ability. It is likely that it would be able to avoid combat alltogether. If she couldn't avoid combat, then she still had an armor class of 29ish and damage reduction of 5/-. Also, as a last resort she could summon a Balor once per day with a 10% chance of success. I never even got around to assigning the 81 skill points or choosing feats. She'd most likely be found ruling an empire... very well. She'd be loved by all, even when she treated them all like slime. You'd love her too, if you met her. |
| Sirix05-25-05, 01:49 PM | The reason being that all of the overwhelming arguments supporting the WF have usually boiled down to the "ninjas are cool" argument. That's childish and a poor reason to vote (I'm sure there were folks out there that had legitimate reasons to vote for the WF, I'm not generalizing here), and it made me 'angry' enough to vote for the opposition. Not really. The creature competition page says in big type: "VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE NOW!" This is just supposed to be fun. (Ninjas are cool.) |
| Enterik05-25-05, 02:10 PM | Not really. The creature competition page says in big type: "VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE NOW!" This is just supposed to be fun. (Ninjas are cool.) Yes, the front page says vote for your favorite, but the text included with the message board link doesn't say "DISCUSS LIKE PARIS HILTON" :D So, why are ninjas cool/your favorite? Or more germane to the competition at hand, what makes the WFN a compelling component of any adventure you can imagine? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? |
| vutha_vaecaesin05-25-05, 02:12 PM | Hold up there SIRIX, Shekar is one of the first ones to point out that this is about our favourites. I think he's like me and just doesn't want people to vote on stats or prowess. |
| sinewave05-25-05, 02:25 PM | I followed my first impulse and voted for the WF Ninja, mainly because I'm playing one in an Eberron/Ninja Campaign : ). On realizing that this character may be an NPC in an adventure, I know from personal experience how the DM would really enjoy playing the character, and it would definatley give the PC's a run for their money. |
| Andrewinator05-25-05, 02:37 PM | I hope the best for Ellith'rin, but I'm sure the Warforged Ninja will win, unfortunately. Everybody thinks the ninja is a "cool, original, and tastefull" idea, but it's absurd, and mildly funny. Only for non-serious campaigns. |
| Lashan05-25-05, 03:05 PM | While I really like nagas (Against the Cult of the Reptile God , anyone?), I hate the idea of half-dragon. It's just stupid. I think it's the worst template you can drop on anything. I hate it almost as much as anything drow. So, the robot ninja gets it by default. Speaking of hating drow, I hope the pirate beholder gets it just to snuff out anything drow. When, oh, when will we quit getting drow shoved down our collective throats? Arrrrrr......tis a blight in thar gaming community. |
| delroland05-25-05, 03:33 PM | Yeah, half-dragon has MUNCHKIN written all over it. I should know; one of my builds is a Master of Many Forms that turns into a half-gold dragon troll giant wereoctopus. Say that three times fast! :D |
| havershame_swordflinger05-25-05, 04:53 PM | So, why are ninjas cool/your favorite? Or more germane to the competition at hand, what makes the WFN a compelling component of any adventure you can imagine? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? I personaly see this ninja as sort of like a vigalanti(sp?) hero that is rummered to exist but has never been proven, striking at thoes he deems evil and bringing justice to the world. The PCs could be hired to find and capture the ninja, or may be a witness to an event and therfor must die for seeing to much. The posibilities for a ninja are endless, the fact that it is a warforged is just an unexpected twist. |
| Darkmyer05-25-05, 05:57 PM | Alright dudes, let's just be realistic. While the the Half-Dragon Naga is pretty pwn, the warforged ninja is most certainly way totally sweeter. I mean, any ninja who just flips out and kills, like, everyone, is already the most totally sweet thing in the enitre world, but add on top of all that hes the 1337 sauce warforged pwn azz mech of doom!! and you have one all encompassing, totally rad flip out fight that is completely one sided. My verdict: warforged master ninja of doom will pork the glittering snake hippie of not doom. Especially if he has a guitar, even though he doesn't. But still. pwned. |
| Falrion05-25-05, 08:47 PM | Yeah, half-dragon has MUNCHKIN written all over it. I should know; one of my builds is a Master of Many Forms that turns into a half-gold dragon troll giant wereoctopus. Say that three times fast! :D :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: HAHAHAHAHA!!! You are completely right... half-dragon feels kinda MUNCHKIN when you hear about it... and you can see IT IS Pure MUNCHKINISM when you experience it first hand when fighting something like the Terrible Half-Red Dragon Shadow-Walker Tall Mouther Zombie :confused: :looloo: :thinks: By the way, delroland, can you post the stats for your half-gold dragon troll giant wereoctopus?? i´m planning on cramming it into my campaign... :D As I said before, I voted for the WFN, not because i own the ECS (I DM FR also, and i like them the same... FR has some nostalgic feel... been playing it for about 9 years now...) but because I like the idea, I love adventures full of mysteries and surprise... and a stealthy, killing `forged, can do it... while a half-gold dragon/ iridescent naga is... welll... I`ll just say I dont like templates.... Vote Succubus Paladin `05 |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-25-05, 09:04 PM | ...Anyway, I voted for the ninja because a) nagas suck (oooo, a snake with a human head. I'm SCAAARED) and b) ninjas are cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet. :P And c) the naga is WAY too greedy with premodifying adjectives. It's the equivalent of a double double half-caff skinny tall chocolate vanilla latte. i agree with every single word there! nagas do suck and ninja's rock my socks! |
| Sirix05-25-05, 09:05 PM | Woo! Replies! Yes, the front page says vote for your favorite, but the text included with the message board link doesn't say "DISCUSS LIKE PARIS HILTON" :D A low blow. :noway: (Just kidding; I don't care. ;) ) So, why are ninjas cool/your favorite? Or more germane to the competition at hand, what makes the WFN a compelling component of any adventure you can imagine? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? sigh. I have to explain myself, huh? Ok. To be honest, my vote was more against the naga than for the ninja. I have no problem with warforged (I'm playing in my second Eberron campaign right now.), and from what I remember when I looked through Complete Adventurer ninja seems to be among the best of the new core classes from the Complete books. Also, the warforged stereotype is a big clunky fighter, yet there's no reason they couldn't make effective ninjas (assuming the DM has ninjas in his/her version of Eberron.) so I think it's a cool non-stereotypical combination. And no, I don't find it ridiculous. It's only ridiculous if you assume that ninja-anything is ridiculous. The naga. My god, the naga. I'll just go through my thoughts on this chop-job piece by piece. Alright, I'm ok with nagas. They're not my favorite, but there are certainly worse things in the MM (I never even seen the book that iridescent nagas are from). I don't necessarily have a problem with half-dragons. I don't like templates much, but in moderation they can be cool. I don't like amethyst dragons. I think they're silly. I don't mind monsters with class levels, though I think they feel a bit more natural on more humanoid enemies. Now, here's the key: For each template, character class, or weird monster you tack on to one thing the more it strains believability, and the stupider it becomes (this is just my opinion). So to me: Warforged ninja = two ok things put together into a neat character Half-amethyst dragon/iridescent naga = a bunch of weird, conditionally ok stuff all crammed onto one big mess of a thing Thus, robot ninja > shiny mutant druid snake :dancin: Hold up there SIRIX, Shekar is one of the first ones to point out that this is about our favourites. I think he's like me and just doesn't want people to vote on stats or prowess. Me either. I missed the first vote, but I would have voted for almost anything that was up against the tarrasque (except a template monstrosity). (Ninja dance: :dancin: ) |
| zavin05-25-05, 09:15 PM | I had to vote for the Warforged Ninja. I just don't like the way the naga looks, i mean, it's a freakin head on a string! |
| Azuaron05-25-05, 09:22 PM | Yeah, that's an exciting adventure, stumble around until you get sneak attacked by a dice-roller's fantasy character, probably as you sleep :rolleye2: The best scenario I see (culled from the monotonously feeble justifications for the warforged ninja) is that the party is engaged for guard duty in order to protect an important personage from the inevidable assasin, they must plan their defense wisely to close all avenues of attack and utilize their fortitude, faith and magic in a life or death battle with the impulse to dream of a more interesting adventure... Even the best case-scenario is a snooze-fest :bored: There are much more interesting things to do with a warforged ninja than that, you (apparently) don't have the imagination to think of them. There could be a whole mystery plot. "HIGH PROFILE PEOPLE OF (insert name of metropolis here) MYSTEROUSLY KILLED: ADVENTURERS NEEDED." That thought bumped my opinion of the WFN from "eh" to "better than that freakin' Meepo." (If I want a kobold in my adventure, I'll put it in. But the kobold won't be the adventure). I hope the best for Ellith'rin, but I'm sure the Warforged Ninja will win, unfortunately. Everybody thinks the ninja is a "cool, original, and tastefull" idea, but it's absurd, and mildly funny. Only for non-serious campaigns. I don't like to be blatently insulting, but...ARE YOU STUPID? "Only for non-serious campaigns" what the hell? Ninjas are perfectly acceptable for a normal campaign, if the DM has any brains at all. And a Warforged Ninja has the potential to scare the hell out of the PCs. And later, you'll have to explain why it's absurd. Alright dudes, let's just be realistic. While the the Half-Dragon Naga is pretty pwn, the warforged ninja is most certainly way totally sweeter. I mean, any ninja who just flips out and kills, like, everyone, is already the most totally sweet thing in the enitre world, but add on top of all that hes the 1337 sauce warforged pwn azz mech of doom!! and you have one all encompassing, totally rad flip out fight that is completely one sided. My verdict: warforged master ninja of doom will pork the glittering snake hippie of not doom. Especially if he has a guitar, even though he doesn't. But still. pwned. I just thought this was funny. Hello Counterstrike newbie Leet fool! Learn the English language over again, then get some typing lessons! |
| Wildrunner05-25-05, 09:33 PM | ninja skills man.... ninja skills.... |
| JP10105-25-05, 10:45 PM | Yes I agree... Ninja skills. I mean you need to remeber EVERY single monster or creature on the list OTHER than the WarForged Ninja needs to sleep at SOME point and thats when it will strike and kill, I mean face it you cant kill somthing while you asleep. |
| Judicator Shekar05-25-05, 10:53 PM | Hold up there SIRIX, Shekar is one of the first ones to point out that this is about our favourites. I think he's like me and just doesn't want people to vote on stats or prowess. Thanks for the support man. I'm one of the poor folks who voted for the cube b/c we knew it was a competition regarding more than just combative skill. Then I found myself reading tens of replies that sounded like, "The tarrasque would rip the cube apart, that means I'm voting for the tarrasque. Damn, I guess all I can do is let out a long, dissapointed sigh. Allright, Sirix, please realize that, while the Naga may be a chop-job in your opinion (let's stress that point, "your opinion"), they are most definately a respectable creature. They actually are derived from Vedic/Early Hindu mythology (altered a bit to fit the D&D gamescape), more than can be said for warforged. Anyway, I stress that this week's naga is definately not a munchkin, just an interesting arrangement of templates/classes. I criticised the overload of templates in an earlier post, but it's still more clever than a nameless character, known only by the "race" and "class" descriptors found on his sheet. As such, I argue that if any is a munchkin, it's the WF ninja, and NOT the naga, which actually would require some though. Thanks. |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-25-05, 10:56 PM | ...I love adventures full of mysteries and surprise... and a stealthy, killing `forged, can do it... while a half-gold dragon/ iridescent naga is... welll... I`ll just say I dont like templates.... Vote Succubus Paladin `05 whoa! what you just said there, for some reason, reminded me of the book "and then there were none"! OMG i love that book! lol, thanks, now i have to go rent it... |
| Drindin05-25-05, 11:24 PM | Half-Amythest dragon/ Half-Anything is just cool. I mean, seriously, that's just cool. And in this case, even cooler. Psionic prowess matched with magical might= bye bye ninja. The biggest point to my voting against the metal-headed ninja is that it's very, very setting specific. I mean, seriously, there is no other setting ASIDE from eberron that has warforged, and what I like to see is an adventure where I don't need to place it in a setting. I like downloadable adventures so that I have something I can whip out to pass the time with my friends without having to severly alter it so that it's NOT Ebberon, and I don't want to have to change my setting so that suddenly there's warforged (and it's not as easy as simply saying its a one-time thing, cause then my players go "WTF!? Where did this thing come from!" and then I have to plan an entire campaign on the spot while they go out and hunt for it's creator!). Also, I'm sorry, I don't care HOW good your DM is, but 'ninjas' are so... typical of the geek-campaign "...and then the ninja attacks you! It flips from the shadows and slices off the head of the princess! Mwahaha!". Where as half-amythest dragon half-naga is more like "Ellith'rin ponders for a moment. "No... what you seek will not be there. You must look deeper, for the answer lies below the surface". I'm sorry, but that kind of a Profound statement is never found with a ninja. The ninja's like "My master has commanded me to kill you! Prepare to die!" and lets face it, ninja's don't work for themselves. And that, is never very interesting, cuz there's always a cause, and they are never it. Where as with the Ellith'rin, even if she does something evil, there is no telling if it was her, or some one else... is she working for herself? Or are there others? Who knows? *breath* And further more, I'd like to see something that isn't inherently evil and destructive with all those 'wicked swords and stuff!" actually win one. Thank you. |
| Navaruk05-25-05, 11:35 PM | I like the idea of the Warforged ninja primarily due to its change of pace. An adventure based on the naga is more likely just going to devolve into a dungeon dive with a interesting npc/enemy or a raid, and it isn’t like there is any lack of these (at least in my game). The ninja on the other hand will (hopefully) more likely yield a protection and/or retrieval based mission, which I have to say peeks my interest substantially more than any crawl would, especially if they can make it in such a way that even an atrocious DM can run it (true a competent DM could likely develop this on his own, but we should do something that helps all the incompetent DMs). While (I think) I understand and can see where the concept for the naga came from, the excessive build unnecessarily overcomplicates it. I’m also not sure what resources half of that build comes from, and I don’t see much of the story being lost by dropping some of it. |
| Sirix05-26-05, 12:19 AM | Allright, Sirix, please realize that, while the Naga may be a chop-job in your opinion (let's stress that point, "your opinion"), they are most definately a respectable creature. They actually are derived from Vedic/Early Hindu mythology (altered a bit to fit the D&D gamescape), more than can be said for warforged. Actually, I was referring specifically to the cobbled-together assemblage of monsters, templates and class levels that is 'Ellith'rin'. I don't have a problem with plain old nagas. Oh, and I'm glad you voted cube. :thumbsup: |
| wizzardman05-26-05, 12:33 AM | Ninja warforged must win. It has too. Without it, we will never be able to solve the great Ninja vs Pirate debate. The fact that it's the Ninja Tin Man and the 9-eyed pirate matters not. It's the thought that counts. In the 'making cool adventure' aspect, however, they both have some good qualities. The naga makes a good, respectable main boss NPC, and will probably provide good story fodder, or at least dungeon fodder. The ninja, however, is more suited to the role of cannon fodder. And that's the real reason why the ninja should win this fight. Look at it this way: how hard is it, from a DM's perspective, to make an adventure involving a half-dragon naga? Not hard at all. Find some evil goal for it to have, toss in a few random allies and pets for it to have, and presto, you have an easy, single use adventure, like so many others people have made. But making an adventure about a single warforged ninja? Hard. It doesn't make an obvious main boss [unless it's leading a force of other warforged ninja, and that just makes it boring], so you can't toss it into a dungeon and add pets. It's too blatant to make a search and destroy, despite the remarkable ninja stealth abilities, and I seriously doubt it has any truly obvious evil goals [save possibly 'destroy all humanoids,' and that just causes the adventure to devolve into farce]. You can't just make a cut-and-paste adventure out of it. You'd have to think to make this one. And that's what forcing the wonderful elder brains of Wizards to make one for us is all about. |
| Manyfist05-26-05, 12:47 AM | See, make the Warforged Ninja actually portray the Bad guy, then when you talk to him you realize he's just out there to make a living. See, the encounter should go, you're hired to take down this Assassin, and so you go around looking for 'Assassins', yet the Warforged Ninja Follows you secretly. :eek: A Skirmish should happen, and if you knock him down to like 10hp, he'll talk, or if he knocks any of the party down to 10 HP (or Less) He'll Start talking. Ebberon is about political power and corruption, maybe he's trying to give word that The Church of the Silverflame is Corrupt. After you team up you go and talk/slash your way through to the main boss dude, after you're done with that, the Warforged Ninja attacks you after that. Wounding you/party he'll take a leave. That would be a tight ass Adventure, full of Plot twists and what not. PS: Just go and Buy Races of Ebberon, then you can add them any where. |
| Honesty Algebra05-26-05, 12:48 AM | The warforged was painted by little Stevie Prescott. It wins. Sigh. Looking at all these monsters, I really wish they would have made a Bullette ninja. It would be president of the world in, like, three days. |
| Drindin05-26-05, 01:19 AM | Look at it this way: how hard is it, from a DM's perspective, to make an adventure involving a half-dragon naga? Not hard at all. Find some evil goal for it to have, toss in a few random allies and pets for it to have, and presto, you have an easy, single use adventure, like so many others people have made. And here's your misconception! An Amythest dragon is *LAWFUL NEUTRAL*! Which means, that any spawn it has are (more than likely) ALSO lawful neutral! Even more likely in this case, since the Naga in mention is inherently good! Becaue of this, this character is NOT a boss NPC, unless it's the boss that your adventurer's are working for! Working something like this into the campaign is exceedingly difficult (unless your players are evil, or criminals, in which case it'd (more than likely) be obliged to wipe you off the face of the planet!) . It would have to disguise itself to hide it's identity, probably by some sort of transfiguration spell. It would then need to discretely communicate with the players. It would be a shady, INTERESTING character. Where as the ninja? No matter how shady you make the ninja, it's only got one goal in mind: How to make itself more gold. Anybody could do more than kill people for a living! Simple fact is, the ninjas not killing people cause it HAS too. It's killing people cause it WANTS too! A pretty straight foreward villain if ever there was one! If the Half-Ameythest half-Iridescent Naga Druid is a very interesting, and exceedingly unusual creature. [/Rant] |
| Metool205-26-05, 01:51 AM | Well, one thing can be said about this competition.. its given me a reason to post. So far I have found it to be very interesting to think about. The first week I voted for the Big T (because I cannot recall how to spell the full name right now). I voted for the mythic beast, not for the fact that it is the supreme magical beast, but more for the fact that, while I respect the geneology of the noble Ooze, I felt it would not make a pleasing victor of the tournament.... So, it was more of a Bush vs Kerry thing. Lesser of two evils. Second week had to be the Demoness, I mean.. Come on, six arms, all wielding weapons? THe pixie didnt have a chance... So I of course voted for the dervish... And as a note, to prove that I HAVE read the boards, I voted for the Demoness because I felt she WAS the coolest, since she had the greatest chance of winning the battle... It all links up, if I thought she WASNT cool, then I would have, of course, thought up a way for the Pixie to win. This week, about as easy as the rest... Warforged Ninja, hands down. THe various reasons inclue that he is a Ninja.. and, well.. I am loathe to say Robot, or Mechanical creature.... Hes a haunted can of armor ninja! The second reason being I have to say I rather dislike Nagas, unpleasant lot, the bunch of them... In battle though itd be hard to say who would win... Granted, the Naga has some abilities on its side, magic, skills, litheness... But, come on! ITs a Ninja! From my limited knowledge of Ninjitsu, I dont claim to evene be near a masters knowledge of course (Only a fool claims he is a wiseman), Ninjas are the ultimate adaptors. They are specialized in infiltration, not by nightfall and black outfits, but rather with disguises and acting... They are well versed in adapting any tool into a weapon, or vice versa if the need requires... So, if the battle was planned ahead, im sure the Warforged Ninja would win.... As for popularity, I voted for the Warforged Ninja just because I thought he was the cooler out of the two choices. And, as for the campaign, it might be interesting to see a story with the WN as the main center of the storyline... It didnt necessarily state hed be the main badguy, did it? Itd be cool to have a party try and follow a WN into an enemy encampent to either steal plans, sabotage a newly constructed super weapon, or assisnate the leader. |
| delroland05-26-05, 02:00 AM | Half-Gold Dragon Troll Giant Wereoctopus Giant Octopus Form Large Dragon (Aquatic, Shapechanger) Hit Dice: 6d10+42 plus 8d10+67 (186 hp) Initiative: +4 Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), swim 30 ft. Armor Class: 26 (-1 size, +4 Dex, +13 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 22 Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+29 Attack: Tentacle +24 melee (1d4+15) Full Attack: 8 tentacles +24 melee (1d4+15) and bite +19 melee (1d8+7) Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft. (20 ft. with tentacle) Special Attacks: breath weapon, curse of lycanthropy, improved grab, constrict Special Qualities: Alternate form, damage reduction 10/silver, darkvision 90 ft., immunity to fire, sleep, and paralysis, ink cloud, jet, low-light vision, octopus empathy, regeneration 5, scent Saves: Fort +19, Ref +12, Will +6 Abilities: Str 41, Dex 18, Con 27, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 8 Skills: Escape Artist +14, Hide +15, Listen +6, Spot +7, Swim +23 Feats: Alertness, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Hide), Toughness, Track Environment: Warm aquatic Organization: Solitary Challenge Rating: 11 Treasure: Standard Alignment: Always lawful good Advancement: By character class Level Adjustment: +11 Wheee! Heck, this bad boy is better at hiding than our WF ninja! Essentially, since this is only a 14 HD creature, a master of many forms can change into it at 14th level, though the PrC can't choose dragon-type forms until 10th level in the class, or 15th character level at the earliest. They would also lose all supernatural and spell-like SA's and SQ's, though they would retain the extraordinary ones. Including the DR, regen, and fire immunity. In fact, the only things they would lose are alternate form, breath weapon, and curse of lycanthropy. |
| Scaly One05-26-05, 02:41 AM | Yes I agree... Ninja skills. I mean you need to remeber EVERY single monster or creature on the list OTHER than the WarForged Ninja needs to sleep at SOME point and thats when it will strike and kill, I mean face it you cant kill somthing while you asleep. Me desagreesss: Undeadsss and Ozzesss no sssleepsss two |
| Scaly One05-26-05, 03:12 AM | My favorite character in Mortal Kombat is Cyrax, a Cyborg Ninja. So I vote for the Warforged Ninja, the closest thing to Cyrax! On the other hand, who is Meepo? What are his classes and templates (if any?) I'm gonna vote for him only because he seems so simple compared to the other ones, but in the same time, I would like to see his Curriculum Vitae before giving him the Gold Medal... Me hasss a relative there, he'sss a ninja two.. Had you everr meet him? (And by the way, Meepo is a NPC on the Sunless Citadel module, originaly a plain and funny kobold) And... By the unholly name of my missstresss, from where on Abyssss thisss 8 armed thing hass come? |
| Scaly One05-26-05, 03:33 AM | I hope the best for Ellith'rin, but I'm sure the Warforged Ninja will win, unfortunately. Everybody thinks the ninja is a "cool, original, and tastefull" idea, but it's absurd, and mildly funny. Only for non-serious campaigns. [I disagree, a ninjalike character can be used on a serious campaign and give serious headaches to the players, the absurd in this whole thing is the "soul encrusted" "clan sized" "walking beer-can"... And what is it's master? Some samurai R2 unit? LOL The WotC could make better letting the robots on the SW set...] Tassstefull? What tassste doesss aluminun have? |
| Red_Decker05-26-05, 03:46 AM | I voted Warforged Ninja. Come on, he's a ninja. I'm a Realms junkie which is where the Iridecent naga is from but it's far too templated for me to want it to win. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/lady1raven/meepo/Meepo_02.gif http://www.geocities.com/farginaut/sorc_kobold.txt |
| Archangel6205-26-05, 05:43 AM | I'm a newbie I admit, but if memory serves the Ninja rules say that wearing any armor wipes out most of their useful abilities. And unless there is a new errata out the Warforged are always considered to be armored so I would have to say that with that problem, plus the wisdom penalty, the warforged ninja would get shredded by our friend the naga. |
| Red_Decker05-26-05, 05:58 AM | I'm a newbie I admit, but if memory serves the Ninja rules say that wearing any armor wipes out most of their useful abilities. And unless there is a new errata out the Warforged are always considered to be armored so I would have to say that with that problem, plus the wisdom penalty, the warforged ninja would get shredded by our friend the naga. A ninja would fall under the same catagory as the monk in this respect and from what I understand as long as they don't have either the Adamantine or Mithral body feat they do not suffer the same penalties as other races with armor. That is however for another thread. Your vote should be about which one you like more not who you think will win. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/lady1raven/meepo/Meepo_02.gif http://www.geocities.com/farginaut/sorc_kobold.txt |
| lightman05-26-05, 07:01 AM | All your half-dragons are belong to us! Just mimicking halo |
| Falrion05-26-05, 08:05 AM | The biggest point to my voting against the metal-headed ninja is that it's very, very setting specific. I mean, seriously, there is no other setting ASIDE from eberron that has warforged, and what I like to see is an adventure where I don't need to place it in a setting. I like downloadable adventures so that I have something I can whip out to pass the time with my friends without having to severly alter it so that it's NOT Ebberon, and I don't want to have to change my setting so that suddenly there's warforged (and it's not as easy as simply saying its a one-time thing, cause then my players go "WTF!? Where did this thing come from!" and then I have to plan an entire campaign on the spot while they go out and hunt for it's creator!). The WFN doesn`t need to be a ECS adventure only... remember there are a lot of construct extraplanar thingies (Inevitables, Maug, the Modron, etc...) you can simply say its from another plane or another type of Inevitable and thats it.... Also, I'm sorry, I don't care HOW good your DM is, but 'ninjas' are so... typical of the geek-campaign "...and then the ninja attacks you! It flips from the shadows and slices off the head of the princess! Mwahaha!". Where as half-amythest dragon half-naga is more like "Ellith'rin ponders for a moment. "No... what you seek will not be there. You must look deeper, for the answer lies below the surface". I'm sorry, but that kind of a Profound statement is never found with a ninja. The ninja's like "My master has commanded me to kill you! Prepare to die!" and lets face it, ninja's don't work for themselves. And that, is never very interesting, cuz there's always a cause, and they are never it. Where as with the Ellith'rin, even if she does something evil, there is no telling if it was her, or some one else... is she working for herself? Or are there others? Who knows? The word RONIN rings any bells?? the WF, doesn´t need to have a master... maybe he is doing the thing he does, because he thinks he is doing some good, or he is plain evil... In Eberron, he may be killing high ranking army officials, and nobles from the country he battled for in the war... killing them, because he thinks they are evil, or are guilty of something (even if he is correct or not... remember he is a construct, and may not see things as the fleshy-ones see it... No matter how shady you make the ninja, it's only got one goal in mind: How to make itself more gold. Anybody could do more than kill people for a living! Simple fact is, the ninjas not killing people cause it HAS too. It's killing people cause it WANTS too! A pretty straight foreward villain if ever there was one! If the Half-Ameythest half-Iridescent Naga Druid is a very interesting, and exceedingly unusual creature. As stated above... he may not be greedy, he may be doing it for some reason, honor, vengeance, almost any reason... (since WF have souls, maybe it has the soul of some1 who in someway was wronged by the people he kills... even if he is right or wrong...) Delroland, thanks for the stats for the Half-Dragon.... bah.. i won´t type it... it´s just too Damn long...I´m still laughing from last night when i read ur post... |
| The_Newborn05-26-05, 08:23 AM | Alright dudes, let's just be realistic. Quite an ironic thing to say given the fantasy/science fiction premise. I mean, any ninja who just flips out and kills, like, everyone, is already the most totally sweet thing in the enitre world, but add on top of all that hes the 1337 sauce warforged pwn azz mech of doom!! A ninja doesn't flip out. Something that would flip out and "kill, like, everyone" is more likely to be an Assassin of some kind. All ninja have an adgenda (or code) and it usually doesn't involve them stopping their current run of medication. This ninja in particular doesn't go psychotic, for lack of a more 1337 word. At least that is according to his own bio. I am starting to feel dirty having voted for the warforged. For some strange reason, ninja seem less appealling after the recent posts... :raincloud PS. True Mech need pilots. |
| The_Newborn05-26-05, 08:27 AM | The word RONIN rings any bells?? Yeah! Disgraced (and now lordless) SAMURAI... |
| havershame_swordflinger05-26-05, 09:06 AM | I'm a newbie I admit, but if memory serves the Ninja rules say that wearing any armor wipes out most of their useful abilities. And unless there is a new errata out the Warforged are always considered to be armored so I would have to say that with that problem, plus the wisdom penalty, the warforged ninja would get shredded by our friend the naga. Even if they are considered armered with the composit plating I believe that there is a feat entitled Unarmered that can be taken at first level that would fix this warforged problem. Vote Warforged Ninja '05 |
| davethebrave37105-26-05, 09:23 AM | Well, I've never been a fan of nagas, and I don't really know any one who is...so the warforged looks like it will take first. But! The naga could get off on a technicality! According to a very reliable source (http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm) Warforged cannot be ninjas! (Just as Epicfetus has pointed out) Can a Warforged fight all the time? Yes Can a Warforged flip out and kill people? Yes Is a Warforged a mammal? Most likely not... You make an excellent point. I also don't see hippos wanting to be best friends with Warforged, or vice versa. Warforged could probably totally wail on a guitar and kick off your mom's head, but I don't know if that's entirely valid if one of the three cornerstones of ninjahood is questioned. |
| TempestadiossA05-26-05, 10:05 AM | Sigh... it looks like my beloved half-dragon/iridescent naga won't live to see the light of wednesday, 30th may. Oh well. Why should Meepo have a banner all for himself and the marilith dervish not?!? And whyever there's no banner for the succubus paladin at all?!?! Let's just make them!! :cool: :D Marilith Dervish - Ask her about her great dual wielding abilities Succubus Paladin & the Wrecking Vrock 2005 |
| kuhTHOOloo05-26-05, 10:09 AM | Anyone else notice Xxerlflyyn's resemblence to Errol Flynn? |
| Enterik05-26-05, 11:03 AM | Woo! Replies! A low blow. :noway: (Just kidding; I don't care. ;) ) sigh. I have to explain myself, huh? Ok. To be honest, my vote was more against the naga than for the ninja. I have no problem with warforged (I'm playing in my second Eberron campaign right now.), and from what I remember when I looked through Complete Adventurer ninja seems to be among the best of the new core classes from the Complete books. Also, the warforged stereotype is a big clunky fighter, yet there's no reason they couldn't make effective ninjas (assuming the DM has ninjas in his/her version of Eberron.) so I think it's a cool non-stereotypical combination. And no, I don't find it ridiculous. It's only ridiculous if you assume that ninja-anything is ridiculous. I have nothing against Ninjas really, I'm a big Sho Kosugi fan, and whether or not he's warforged is not all that meaningful to me. I just don't find the construct a compelling part of any story line that doesn't involve a fight against the forces of sleep... The naga. My god, the naga. I'll just go through my thoughts on this chop-job piece by piece. Alright, I'm ok with nagas. They're not my favorite, but there are certainly worse things in the MM (I never even seen the book that iridescent nagas are from). I don't necessarily have a problem with half-dragons. I don't like templates much, but in moderation they can be cool. I don't like amethyst dragons. I think they're silly. I don't mind monsters with class levels, though I think they feel a bit more natural on more humanoid enemies. Now, here's the key: For each template, character class, or weird monster you tack on to one thing the more it strains believability, and the stupider it becomes (this is just my opinion). I too have an anti-template reflex, so much so, that my most powerful NPCs are plain old humans with the core classes and occasional prestige class levels. I'm hoping the players will get my not so subtle hint. Time will tell, but to me it's frequently a not so welcome substitute for imagination. Having said this, I've always liked Nagas but never really used them for anything more than stumbling blocks in a dungeon crawl. To boot, this one comes with enough idiosycracies to build a story around. The amethyst template makes any adventure tilt towrad the pisonic and the druid levels push it towards an outdoor adventure, in my mind. So in this instance, I think the templates allow one to power up a naga for a higher CR adventure without having to publish a book. She's still essentially a guardian So to me: Warforged ninja = two ok things put together into a neat character Half-amethyst dragon/iridescent naga = a bunch of weird, conditionally ok stuff all crammed onto one big mess of a thing Thus, robot ninja > shiny mutant druid snake :dancin: Reasonable minds can disagree, I'm glad you took the bait :P |
| vutha_vaecaesin05-26-05, 11:05 AM | I may be just repeating what many have already said, but I don't really like either of this weeks competitors. I voted for the naga simply because evryone seems to want the warforged to win. Shallow? yes, but I don't care. |
| Vharuck05-26-05, 11:24 AM | Like another said, didn't so much vote for the WF ninja as much as against the naga. I hate nagas (ugly things and not the "Oh, wow, that's ugly! Cool!" kind) and I HATE HALF-DRAGONS. Dumbest things in my mind. Half stuff (aside from half-elves and a little bit of orcs) is not that ok in my book. Magical or not, I don't like it. |
| LordofIllusions05-26-05, 11:49 AM | I voted for the "Warforged Ninja,"(LoL) simply because I have no idea what an "Ellith'rin" is. :) ~~~ |
| super-ninja-squirrel-king05-26-05, 12:30 PM | You make an excellent point. I also don't see hippos wanting to be best friends with Warforged, or vice versa. Warforged could probably totally wail on a guitar and kick off your mom's head, but I don't know if that's entirely valid if one of the three cornerstones of ninjahood is questioned. yeeEAAAH! i mean honelstly, the wf ninja has REAL ULTIMATE POWER (http://realultimatepower.net) and, while he isnt a mammal(at least, not the traditional sense) he still has 2 out of three prerequisites! and the mammal thing doesnt translate to dnd well anyways, i would list the prerequisites as 1. ninjas are humanoid 2. ninjas fight all the time 3. the purpose of a ninja is to flip out and kill people and, he probably cant wail on an electric guitar(seeing as there is a lack of controlled electricity), but im sure he can wail on a magical mandolin! this is why you should vote for wf ninja p.s. i am also absolutely sure that he spends his free time flying |
| Norhg05-26-05, 01:04 PM | Bow to those with real ultimate power. Everyone smart does! |
| Enterik05-26-05, 01:21 PM | And here's your misconception! An Amythest dragon is *LAWFUL NEUTRAL*! Which means, that any spawn it has are (more than likely) ALSO lawful neutral! Alignment isn't necessarily determined genetically, although one can not rule out tendencies due selective pressure, any sentient entity should be able to overcome its baser instincts with higher thought and morality, or vice versa. The story for this naga is not sufficiently detailed to know which parent raised her, but the fact that her primary form is Naga would suggest a naga caregiver and not some absentee dragon. Then there are life-experiences that have yet to be detailed. Alignment is all about the story Even more likely in this case, since the Naga in mention is inherently good! Becaue of this, this character is NOT a boss NPC, unless it's the boss that your adventurer's are working for! Not all naga are good, but the monster story does describe an inherently good calling, championing the existance of nascent species, and if this regardless of alignment of said creations, she more than likely true neutral with a heartfelt cause or neutral good at best. |
| Crispy_Spellthief05-26-05, 01:22 PM | I cheated, and voted for both on different days. :p But seriously, I'm rooting more for the half-dragon.. because she's a Master of Many Forms.. that class is just so much cooler than a Ninja, imho. I wanna character that's a MOMF. :D |
| Sirix05-26-05, 01:23 PM | Since I'll be skipping the atrocious "battle of the templates" matchup next week, I'd like to take this time to jump ahead and hype... GRYNERSTEMPOS!!!!!!!1!1!one Because belkars are teh cool. |
| delroland05-26-05, 02:33 PM | Now I'm sad... I get a request to post the half-gold dragon troll giant wereoctopus and do just that, and there is not one reply... :raincloud |
| Enterik05-26-05, 03:24 PM | Yes I agree... Ninja skills. I mean you need to remeber EVERY single monster or creature on the list OTHER than the WarForged Ninja needs to sleep at SOME point and thats when it will strike and kill, I mean face it you cant kill somthing while you asleep. The Epic spell, Lord of nightmares could do it, if one is considered asleep when the Dream Larva is summoned. AND this isn't D&D fight club, the creatures will never face each other in an online module, so your point is meaningless, unless you're specifically hankering for a sleep based module :zzz: |
| bgt05-26-05, 03:45 PM | 3. the purpose of a ninja is to flip out and kill people Actually, no. The pupose of a ninja is to provide a one-shot, disposable assassin. A ninja is a peasent that's willing to die for his political beliefs. They didn't hide in wait, and to have one get away from the the scene of the assassination was unheard of. A typical ninja assassination is something like this: The ninja poses as a gardener, trimming bushes and the like. The emporer is enjoying a nice walk through his garden. As he nears the ninja, the ninja jumps out and shove a knife through his throat. The guards procede to cut the ninja into little pieces. The ninja PrC is based off of western misconceptions about ninja, with a few special abilitys thrown in to add some sparkle. It is as devoid of flavor as the wizard would be if it had been made without any spells and a fighter BAB. |
| DuskyFruit05-26-05, 03:47 PM | Wow messages is posted too quickly on this thread! :eek: This answer may be lost for the one that asked it, but here it is anyway: Why do you hate the idea of a non-evil naga? The core book has one that's usually Lawful Good. (Guardian Naga) There are several monster/alignment combinations I really hate, there is nothing that irritates me more than the tendency D&D have to create good and evil versions of every monster types, therefore I truly hate and would never consider putting in any campaign of mine: Good nagas, good lycanthropes, saintly saved fiends and the worst of them all good dragons! :yuck: |
| Enterik05-26-05, 04:11 PM | I personaly see this ninja as sort of like a vigalanti(sp?) hero that is rummered to exist but has never been proven, striking at thoes he deems evil and bringing justice to the world. The PCs could be hired to find and capture the ninja, or may be a witness to an event and therfor must die for seeing to much. The posibilities for a ninja are endless, the fact that it is a warforged is just an unexpected twist. And I see ninjas as they really were (plus a little magic :) ) clever recon and infiltration forces adept at wilderness survival and disguise, but never a vigilante, more of a contracted spy. I think the fact that this ninja is warforged is an intentional twist to amp up the powergamers and Eberron devotees and boost the challenge level. It adds naught but toughness and endurance to the NPC. And as for the Ninja part, as of yet, there is no real story, just an intimated threat of somnolent death, as such, the word ninja can easily be replaced with rogue without much ado. |
| ursa2305-26-05, 04:37 PM | A lot of people have been commenting that it would be so hard to work a warforged character into a non-Eberron campaign. This is largely a test of the DM's imagination (player: Where did that come from?! DM: Uhh..Mechanus. Stop complaining and roll initiative!). Any DM worth the title should be able to come up with an acceptable explanation. My major problem with the Naga is psionics. I do not own Expanded Psionics, nor am I truly interested in Fantasy Psi (Sci-Fi Psi is fun AND rhyming). I would have a harder time bringing a divine magic casting psion into my campaign than a reasonable humanoid. Seriously though, vote Succubus Paladin '05 |
| vutha_vaecaesin05-26-05, 04:49 PM | Now I'm sad... I get a request to post the half-gold dragon troll giant wereoctopus and do just that, and there is not one reply... :raincloud I thought was super cool actually. I'm thinking about putting it in my campaign as Umberlee's pet project. don't feel bad. oh and congrats on being post 666 |
| Leonidus05-26-05, 05:15 PM | Not to mention that while Warforged are eberron-based, they're not eberron-exclusive, as of the MM3. So this warforged could have been a hired, or rather, comissioned, assasin. It's not entirely locked. |
| nefestous05-26-05, 05:36 PM | I'm not sure if I'm the only one, but I've seen far too many piecemental freaks that are a combination one or more monsters. "Oh, its just a balor, he's no match against a Celestial 1/2 white dragon 1/2 dire drider lich." To me, it has about as much flavor as a splatter painting. I'm not going to say that I'll always vote against them, but in this case, the idea of ninja that doesn't tire, doesn't sleep, and can go after quarry with single minded determination and tenacity to be a bit frightening. Those are the qualities that I choose to start with when making a quality NPC, vilian, vigilanty, or competition. Same goes for the paladin succubus, there's a story behind that combination already. May vote goes for the warforged ninja and the paladin sucubus. |
| GraveDigger05-26-05, 05:50 PM | Ya'll talk to much. I left and it was on 21. I came back it was on 23. Thats allot of comments to skim. Geh! Any ways I have oted War Forged ninja. |
| Anzila05-26-05, 06:16 PM | Okay, here's how I see the current fight. Warforged=Construct with a soul Construct=Closest DnD has to a robot without outside sourcing Therefore Warforged=Robot with a soul +Ninja Ninja=F#cking awesome Conclusion: Warforged Ninja is the equivalent of a Robot Ninja, which is awesome beyond words in a way that can only be exceeded if they gave the same Warforged a dinosaur mount. Math doesn't lie, the Warforged wins. |
| kuhTHOOloo05-26-05, 06:37 PM | Okay, here's how I see the current fight. Warforged=Construct with a soul Construct=Closest DnD has to a robot without outside sourcing Therefore Warforged=Robot with a soul +Ninja Ninja=F#cking awesome Conclusion: Warforged Ninja is the equivalent of a Robot Ninja, which is awesome beyond words in a way that can only be exceeded if they gave the same Warforged a dinosaur mount. Math doesn't lie, the Warforged wins. So if I follow your math, then the only thing that can beat a Robot Ninja, is a Zombie Pirate. Xxerlflyyn comes close, what with being a pirate, and having a zombie parrot. However, the thing is, Wizard's seems to have left out the fact that Xxerlflyyn also has a crew of mutant sea bass with laser beam eyes. |
| Pneuma00105-26-05, 06:57 PM | ...the idea of ninja that doesn't tire, doesn't sleep, and can go after quarry with single minded determination and tenacity to be a bit frightening. The warforged part means that it does not tire, and doesn't need to sleep, and the ninja part means that he is well trained. It DOES NOT however, mean that he is single minded. As an intelligent being, he may suffer from boredom that would drive any man insane. It doesn't mean that while he's sneaking up behind a guard to deal some ninja death, that he can automatically make his will save against laughing at the guard's joke that would make a monk with a vow of silence keel over laughing. It also doesn't mean that he has no character.... He could have a habit of fidgeting that constantly gives him away. He could have a limp due to a manufacturing defect that makes it hard for him to move quietly. He could have a horrible fear of sharp things. It ALSO doesn't mean that he's a very good ninja. He could have graduated last in his class in Ninja school. He could be a horrible klutz. He could be INSANE, and believe that he needs to do his battle shout just before striking or his opponents will never die. You talk about this guy as if he were mindless and all powerful... In this case, it would be better to have a straight stone golem. As far as being powerful? He could be level one. I've already stated that I'm not voting on this one... I just wanted you guys to think of this factor. Not saying that he isn't cool. He would get my vote if I cared enough. I'm really a fan of mixing up different templates, to the MAX! I never did like the Half-dragon template... Kinda boring. |
| Anzila05-26-05, 07:05 PM | However, the thing is, Wizard's seems to have left out the fact that Xxerlflyyn also has a crew of mutant sea bass with laser beam eyes. Hmmm, sea bass you say? This new revelation may very well require me to vote for our dear Beholder and his beloved dead parrot. Wait, that parrot isn't dead, he just moved *bump cage* |
| kuhTHOOloo05-26-05, 07:13 PM | Wait, that parrot isn't dead, he just moved *bump cage* No, no, the parrot's just pining. Lovely plumage, Norwegian Blue. |
| Aspect_of_Blood05-26-05, 07:46 PM | Armor plated assassin...no doubt one of the best...and there's WAY TOO MANY half-dragon creatures out now...it's just too over used...so my vote goes to the Ninja. |
| The_Newborn05-26-05, 08:32 PM | A lot of people have been commenting that it would be so hard to work a warforged character into a non-Eberron campaign. This is largely a test of the DM's imagination (player: Where did that come from?! DM: Uhh..Mechanus. Stop complaining and roll initiative!). Any DM worth the title should be able to come up with an acceptable explanation. DM that uses extraplanar travel, or Mechanus for that matter, is a tard. My major problem with the Naga is psionics. I do not own Expanded Psionics, nor am I truly interested in Fantasy Psi (Sci-Fi Psi is fun AND rhyming). I would have a harder time bringing a divine magic casting psion into my campaign than a reasonable humanoid. Your major problem is ill thought out and as a result make you look a bit silly. I'm sure everyone has noted the fact that the Naga has a half dragon template. Give yourselves a round of applause. Give yourselves another if you recognised that amethyst dragons are inheirantly psionic creature. Yes, yes. Now, anyone who stated that psionics were involved, I know there are a fair number of you. You lot, take a pen and jam it in your right eye. <Gasp!> If you plan on comenting please do a minimal amount of research. The half-Dragon template does not grant spell-like abilities, or in the case of a gem dragon, psi-like abilites. Even if it did, those wonderful chaps at Wizards of the Coast have this habit of creating creatures for their books that while using alien mechanics, such as psionics, do not need additional materials. "Lies!" you may say. Well pick up your monster manual. Look at the classic Illithid, a favoutite of all, or the Yuan-ti. Oops! Oh my! They appear to be psionic creatures as well. And what is this? You don't need the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Never! But that is just the first flaw in your reasoning. Now for chapter two. The folks at Wizards of the Coast have this strange but rather useful habit of providing COMPREHENSIVE STAT BLOCKS, for all significant creatures in their published adventures. Frozen-crap-on-a-stick, even Meepo (he da bomb) had a stat block. So if they did write an adventure around the Naga you wouldn't need any such supplement, despite the lack of psionics. And the final flaw that I wish to coment on. The Naga is a Druid -> Master of Many Forms. She lacks any psionic classes, and thus a source of psionic powers. Mmm, dig that cutting action! I wish people would also stop quoting Robert Hamburger. Although is site is halarious(when it makes sence) it is also really f*#king dumb. I have come to the conclusion that anyone who bows to the wisdom of a tabby bastard with down-syndrome (sorry for not being PC) must be equally, if not more, retarded. Sound conclusion? I think so. |
| The_Newborn05-26-05, 08:35 PM | Hmmm, sea bass you say? This new revelation may very well require me to vote for our dear Beholder and his beloved dead parrot. Wait, that parrot isn't dead, he just moved *bump cage* Don't for get his darkwood peg-eyestalk Arrr! |
| Azuaron05-26-05, 09:26 PM | DM that uses extraplanar travel, or Mechanus for that matter, is a tard. Your major problem is ill thought out and as a result make you look a bit silly. I'm sure everyone has noted the fact that the Naga has a half dragon template. Give yourselves a round of applause. Give yourselves another if you recognised that amethyst dragons are inheirantly psionic creature. Yes, yes. Now, anyone who stated that psionics were involved, I know there are a fair number of you. You lot, take a pen and jam it in your right eye. <Gasp!> If you plan on comenting please do a minimal amount of research. The half-Dragon template does not grant spell-like abilities, or in the case of a gem dragon, psi-like abilites. Even if it did, those wonderful chaps at Wizards of the Coast have this habit of creating creatures for their books that while using alien mechanics, such as psionics, do not need additional materials. "Lies!" you may say. Well pick up your monster manual. Look at the classic Illithid, a favoutite of all, or the Yuan-ti. Oops! Oh my! They appear to be psionic creatures as well. And what is this? You don't need the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Never! But that is just the first flaw in your reasoning. Now for chapter two. The folks at Wizards of the Coast have this strange but rather useful habit of providing COMPREHENSIVE STAT BLOCKS, for all significant creatures in their published adventures. Frozen-crap-on-a-stick, even Meepo (he da bomb) had a stat block. So if they did write an adventure around the Naga you wouldn't need any such supplement, despite the lack of psionics. And the final flaw that I wish to coment on. The Naga is a Druid -> Master of Many Forms. She lacks any psionic classes, and thus a source of psionic powers. Mmm, dig that cutting action! I wish people would also stop quoting Robert Hamburger. Although is site is halarious(when it makes sence) it is also really f*#king dumb. I have come to the conclusion that anyone who bows to the wisdom of a tabby bastard with down-syndrome (sorry for not being PC) must be equally, if not more, retarded. Sound conclusion? I think so. Damn, I like this person! Okay, first, I agree with most of this. Pretty much all of it, except for the extraplanar-travel bashing. What the hell was that about? I don't frequently employ extraplanar travel, but it can be fun to have a mage duel in one of the depths of Hell. But I digress. All you people bleeding out of your right eye, jam the pen into your left eye, and it will take away the pain from your right eye. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Also, I'm still wondering why people are bashing template usage, especially the ones that call it munchkin. It's only munchkin, if you dumb and no read da rulz. If you follow ECL, they are only as powerful as a PC of the final level, therefor NO MUNCHKIN! I too have an anti-template reflex, so much so, that my most powerful NPCs are plain old humans with the core classes and occasional prestige class levels. I'm hoping the players will get my not so subtle hint. Time will tell, but to me it's frequently a not so welcome substitute for imagination. What the hell? Since when is taking the simplest possible solution akin to imagination? Where I grew up, imagination was the combination and creation of the weirdest possible thing you could think of, not the simplestically easy-to-think-of HUMAN with BASIC CORE CLASSES seems to be much more lacking in imagination than a Half-pyroclastic dragon/half-insectoid halfling dragon stalker that was created by his father (the pyroclastic dragon) to be the general of his (the dragons) armies, only to rebel against his father and now holds a hatred for all things dragon, except for the misfits (half-anythings, draconians, strange templated creatures, etc). I'm sorry but that seems to be MUCH more imaginative than Joel, the 15th level necromancer attacking the town. Have fun killing him and his undead army. (Yes, I know I over-simplified the human. He could have a creative backstory, I did it for effect. Don't respond poorly to me based only on that). My point is, again, that simplisticness is NOT a form of imagination. Anyone who thinks it is, take that pen, and jam it in a few more places. It'll take away your pain. Go ahead. :schemes: |
| zank05-26-05, 09:43 PM | wf ninja wins its that simple. |
| Azuaron05-26-05, 09:49 PM | wf ninja wins its that simple. I'm sick of seeing posts like this, so I'm going to say this once: DON'T BE STUPID, POST WHY. Not just "because (creature) is the coolest" or "because (creature) could kick (creature) in a fight," but why said creature is coolest or could kick other said creature in a fight. |
| zank05-26-05, 09:56 PM | u need to know what the creature does and what the creature is good at so know your monsters and shut the f up. |
| delroland05-26-05, 09:58 PM | Why ask why? There have been plenty of good supporting posts for the WFN, and VERY few for the Naga/freak. So either zank was posting his humble opinion, one which is shared quite extensively, or he is stating the only logical conclusion of this thread. Or something. 'Sides, the naga is stupid! :devil: PS Here's an amusing thought, next time, instead of throwing a mind flayer at your PC's, try a wereoctopus in hybrid form. "Look out for its psychic blast!" "Whaddya mean its got DR?!?!" |
| Falrion05-26-05, 09:59 PM | Now I'm sad... I get a request to post the half-gold dragon troll giant wereoctopus and do just that, and there is not one reply... :raincloud Hey man!!! I thanked you before... don`t say there were no replies `cause I there were... :ahem: I laughed my arse off when i read your post... and the stats block.. well.. i enjoyed it a lot... as I said, im planning on using it... But I cant think of any backstory for a Half-Gold Dragon Troll Giant Were-Octopus... at least for D&D... He has some Chtuloid thing going on... :coolcthul :rofl: |
| Taekwondo05-26-05, 10:24 PM | i don't know if anyone's mentioned this before because i'm not sorting through 23 pages of posts. but i will say this about the warforged ninja: it's a robot ninja. what more could you possibly want? come on. robots: ownage. ninjas: ownage. robot ninjas: 100% ownage sorry if that doesn't sound like reason enough, but come on: ROBOT NINJA! |
| The_Newborn05-26-05, 10:41 PM | Damn, I like this person! Okay, first, I agree with most of this. Pretty much all of it, except for the extraplanar-travel bashing. What the hell was that about? I don't frequently employ extraplanar travel, but it can be fun to have a mage duel in one of the depths of Hell. But I digress. All you people bleeding out of your right eye, jam the pen into your left eye, and it will take away the pain from your right eye. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Also, I'm still wondering why people are bashing template usage, especially the ones that call it munchkin. It's only munchkin, if you dumb and no read da rulz. If you follow ECL, they are only as powerful as a PC of the final level, therefor NO MUNCHKIN! I'm not bashing extraplanar-travel, hell I think it's cool. I just think using it to explain the blending of settings is kind of...hmmm...lame. There are other possibilities that don't rely on it came through a portal and desided to kill some stuff. Unless of-course that is the premise of the campaign setting (run by my local hobbyshop). Although thinking of Mechanus again, I want a LN Modron Paladin of Order (a further bastardization of the variant paladin). And I don't mind templates either (except for feral which everyone I know doesn't use right). |
| D&D_Madness 500005-26-05, 11:05 PM | I highly doubt the Naga stands any chance at all against the ninja, the ninja is just so much cooler than the Naga. WHY ninja is cooler, (Azuaron, I'm talking about you) the naga looks like a worm and the ninja can sneak despite it's size. ALL VOTE FOR WARFORGED NINJA!!! |
| Meshakhad05-26-05, 11:06 PM | Warforged ninja. Doesn't eat, breathe, or sleep. Hides until the naga goes to sleep, then kills. :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: WARFORGED NINJA '05! |
| Meshakhad05-26-05, 11:26 PM | As for the other unresolved fight, Marilith Dervish v. Tarrasque... I don't know. Tarrasque is nigh-unstoppable. But then again, that Marilith has got to be damn near impossible to hit. Or, the tarrasque will grab her, and eat her. And then she teleports out. Repeat until she runs out of HP. But if we REALLY want munchkinism, take on the Lower Planes' worst nightmare: Half-Celestial Tarrasque with Paladin Levels! |
| The_Spleen-Splitter05-27-05, 12:00 AM | For this week, I got to go with the silent bag of bolts. I mean, Ninjas are cool enough as it is and it in android fighting machine, you got yourself one of the collest things known to mankind. Sure it's naga/half-dragon/druid. Big deal. I prefer a monster I can relate to. Besides, half-dragon is totally over-used. :rolleye2: |
| Factol Rhys05-27-05, 12:27 AM | I'm sad that I'll soon be torn between a fiendish paladin and a mind flayer. The succubus is such a strange combination, but you know that she'll have divine grace boosting her saves through the roof, thanks to a literally unholy Charisma score. On the other hand, I won't be able to say no to the mind flayer. You have to love a creature whose Round-by-Round Tactics end with "Round 4: Eat brains." |
| Sirix05-27-05, 02:13 AM | ...Also, I'm still wondering why people are bashing template usage, especially the ones that call it munchkin. It's only munchkin, if you dumb and no read da rulz. If you follow ECL, they are only as powerful as a PC of the final level, therefor NO MUNCHKIN! What the hell? Since when is taking the simplest possible solution akin to imagination? Where I grew up, imagination was the combination and creation of the weirdest possible thing you could think of, not the simplestically easy-to-think-of HUMAN with BASIC CORE CLASSES seems to be much more lacking in imagination than a Half-pyroclastic dragon/half-insectoid halfling dragon stalker that was created by his father (the pyroclastic dragon) to be the general of his (the dragons) armies, only to rebel against his father and now holds a hatred for all things dragon, except for the misfits (half-anythings, draconians, strange templated creatures, etc). I'm sorry but that seems to be MUCH more imaginative than Joel, the 15th level necromancer attacking the town. Have fun killing him and his undead army. (Yes, I know I over-simplified the human. He could have a creative backstory, I did it for effect. Don't respond poorly to me based only on that). My point is, again, that simplisticness is NOT a form of imagination.... 1. The number or lack of templates on a creature has no relation to the creature's "complexity" or vividness as a character. That has more to do with personality, background, and clever writing and roleplaying. 2. I can only speak for myself, but it's not that I hate templates -- I hate it when templates (or other tack-ons) are over-used. Templates are supposed to add uniqueness to a monster/character. To spice things up. If you just douse everything with it you ruin the flavor. This includes both using a lot of templates on one thing or just putting a template on everything. For example: If the PCs encounter a half-fiend cult leader who plays his heritage off of his local superstition to gain followers and secretely intimidate the local government to turn a blind eye, that could be a good way to make the cult leader memorable to the PCs (and noteworthy to commoners). If, on the otherhand, if the PCs regularly find themselves fighting things like spell-stitched half-dragon ogre mage lycanthrope liches with levels in ranger... Well, I'm guessing they'll soon stop caring what "that thing" is, and just rely on the knowledge that it's probably best if they kill it. (Subliminal Advertising) (Grynerstempos: Belkar of Terror! :evillaugh ) |
| Drindin05-27-05, 02:16 AM | The word RONIN rings any bells?? For the love of all that is good and holy, do NOT get your masterless Samurai mixed up with a masterless ninja! They are two COMPLETELY different things! Ninjas are typicaly freelancers, without any semblance of honour left! A Ronin is a samurai that, for whatever reason, was disbanded from his master's court (not necessairily dishonoured: it could be that they simply were no longer needed). For more on this difference, sit down and watch Zatoichi: The Blind Swordsman. It'll do you a heck of alot of good, oh, and bye the way, don't try and get a Japanese 20 student on things regarding japanese culture, especially things so obvious as this, we'll slaughter you. |
| Drindin05-27-05, 02:22 AM | ...and the worst of them all good dragons! :yuck: Ahem, while I do agree with you on most, I have to say, I *disagree* with you on this. Originaly, the gold dragon, and most of the other good dragons for that matter, didn't have real wings. You see, before the 3.0 renditions, the appearance of good dragons was heavily based upon asian culture. In asian culture (particularly chinese and Japanese) the dragon is a symbol of good luck, wisdom, and morality. And, the evil dragons were more heavily based on the Mythos you and I are familiar with: Creatures like Smog, from the hobbit, who breathe fire, tell riddles, and kill innocents, and are symbols of rage, evil, and death. These two conflicting views allowed for the existence of both good and evil dragons, but of course, to add flavour, they also tossed in the Gem dragons: Beings that are neither good nor evil, but neutral. |
| The_Newborn05-27-05, 03:27 AM | I prefer a monster I can relate to. Sadly, the WFN can't relate to you, hense the -2 wis. And in what way can you relate to the WFN? Was your mother a Ninja and your father the jizz machine at the IVF clinic? Are you made of wood and metal? Or did you watch Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles as a child like every other child of the '80's? |
| KhanSemus05-27-05, 04:37 AM | i'm sorry but the spellcasting dragon-snake wins, the 'forged can't take all that can be throw at it; specially since as a druid, the 'thing' gets all the anti-metal and control-wood spells that affect the forged and on your left, we see a half-blind beholder being stuffed by a lichdrow... |
| DuskyFruit05-27-05, 09:06 AM | Originally Posted by Drindin Ahem, while I do agree with you on most, I have to say, I *disagree* with you on this. Originaly, the gold dragon, and most of the other good dragons for that matter, didn't have real wings. You see, before the 3.0 renditions, the appearance of good dragons was heavily based upon asian culture. In asian culture (particularly chinese and Japanese) the dragon is a symbol of good luck, wisdom, and morality. And, the evil dragons were more heavily based on the Mythos you and I are familiar with: Creatures like Smog, from the hobbit, who breathe fire, tell riddles, and kill innocents, and are symbols of rage, evil, and death. The chinese may have myths of good dragons, but I don't like the strange mix of eastern oriental myths, monsters and classes and western myths, monsters and classes, if I were to use gold dragons I would play a oriental campaign, not a western medieval-based campaign. And besides I personally hate the idea of a giant fire-breathing monster that is an exemplar of good. |
| Diefreak05-27-05, 09:40 AM | MONSTER MANUAL II A CLOCK WORK HORROR IS THE CLOSES THING TO ROBOTS AND A WARFORGE NINJA IS NOT A ROBOT and that's all pretty much.OH REMEMBER THAT A NINJA CAN NEVER GO TOE-TO-TOE WITH A MAJOR TARGET he just got's to wait for opportunity.Another cross breed of a rogue and monk.I geuss vote for war forge ninja...why not? |
| nefestous05-27-05, 10:11 AM | The warforged part means that it does not tire, and doesn't need to sleep, and the ninja part means that he is well trained. It DOES NOT however, mean that he is single minded. As an intelligent being, he may suffer from boredom that would drive any man insane. It doesn't mean that while he's sneaking up behind a guard to deal some ninja death, that he can automatically make his will save against laughing at the guard's joke that would make a monk with a vow of silence keel over laughing. It also doesn't mean that he has no character.... He could have a habit of fidgeting that constantly gives him away. He could have a limp due to a manufacturing defect that makes it hard for him to move quietly. He could have a horrible fear of sharp things. It ALSO doesn't mean that he's a very good ninja. He could have graduated last in his class in Ninja school. He could be a horrible klutz. He could be INSANE, and believe that he needs to do his battle shout just before striking or his opponents will never die. You talk about this guy as if he were mindless and all powerful... In this case, it would be better to have a straight stone golem. As far as being powerful? He could be level one. I've already stated that I'm not voting on this one... I just wanted you guys to think of this factor. Not saying that he isn't cool. He would get my vote if I cared enough. I'm really a fan of mixing up different templates, to the MAX! I never did like the Half-dragon template... Kinda boring. Lo and behold you've just made a more interesting character. An interesting idea with flaws. Which goes to further support the idea of a War Forged Ninja. Alas, as I've already stated that I feel the overuse of templates are... overused. I feel that some people are so caught up in the possibilities of what they can do, that they start making "Frankenstein Monsters", although I find this an insult to the classic movie monster because even he was well built character. Just once I would like to see someone take the templating seriously, and not just min/max it to hell. |
| kuhTHOOloo05-27-05, 10:39 AM | Sadly, the WFN can't relate to you, hense the -2 wis. Wouldn't relating to people be more charisma related? |
| The_Newborn05-27-05, 11:13 AM | Wouldn't relating to people be more charisma related? No, that's having relations, and I didn't want to go there. :yuck: Relate to you, as in understand you. Not relate with you as in interact with you. Just like a chocolate Ninja, only crunchy! |
| The Final Dream05-27-05, 12:18 PM | Vote for the warforged ninja this week and Xxerlflyyn the Beholder next week so we can have a pirate vs. ninja vote. |
| Ogre Daddy05-27-05, 01:12 PM | Vote for the warforged ninja this week and Xxerlflyyn the Beholder next week so we can have a pirate vs. ninja vote. Exactly. Since there is no dinosaurs in the competition, it has to be a run off between these two. (At least that is what the Dragon says, and the Dragon is always right.) :D The match-up I want to see is Meepo vs. CDB. Talk about a throw-down in the first round. ;) |
| Enterik05-27-05, 02:30 PM | What the hell? Since when is taking the simplest possible solution akin to imagination? Where I grew up, imagination was the combination and creation of the weirdest possible thing you could think of, not the simplestically easy-to-think-of HUMAN with BASIC CORE CLASSES seems to be much more lacking in imagination than a Half-pyroclastic dragon/half-insectoid halfling dragon stalker that was created by his father (the pyroclastic dragon) to be the general of his (the dragons) armies, only to rebel against his father and now holds a hatred for all things dragon, except for the misfits (half-anythings, draconians, strange templated creatures, etc). I'm sorry but that seems to be MUCH more imaginative than Joel, the 15th level necromancer attacking the town. Have fun killing him and his undead army. (Yes, I know I over-simplified the human. He could have a creative backstory, I did it for effect. Don't respond poorly to me based only on that). My point is, again, that simplisticness is NOT a form of imagination. Anyone who thinks it is, take that pen, and jam it in a few more places. It'll take away your pain. Go ahead. :schemes: ...because you've presented a quasi-real illusion of my actual position, due to some pretty convenient excerpting on your part. I will attempt to dispel :thinks: First thing, I said I have an anti-template REFLEX, not compulsion. If you look back through most of my posts on this match-up, I've been championing the Dragon-Naga breed and yawning over the robot ninja. :zzz: My basic premise is that simplicity in the (non-player or player) character generation mechanics can allow one to employ imagination to derive an interesting personage to roleplay and develop over the course of the game. Conversely, I found that too many templates can often, though not necessarily, pre-empt the creative process, especially if used to recreate something seen in the movies or comic books...Hey! look at me, I'm a werewolf vampire with retractable adamantium claws and a surrey with a fringe on top :yuck:. I won't take an absolutist stand to defend these notions, they're more like observations, and as always, I won't tell my players what to do with their fun. PS The most powerful necromancer in my world is a gnoll cleric (death and trickery domains) named Akuji (African for dead and awake). |
| ursa2305-27-05, 02:41 PM | DM that uses extraplanar travel, or Mechanus for that matter, is a tard. That's just straight Ign'ant, dawg. However, If you plan on comenting please do a minimal amount of research. The half-Dragon template does not grant spell-like abilities, or in the case of a gem dragon, psi-like abilites. :surrender You got me fair and square. I have never looked up stats on half Gem Dragons, and just assumed. I feel I should point out that I love the concept of Gem Dragons (I'm a geology buff), and only wish they weren't psi. I have come to the conclusion that anyone who bows to the wisdom of a tabby bastard with down-syndrome (sorry for not being PC) must be equally, if not more, retarded. Sound conclusion? I think so. I'm sorry Doctor, we were unable to revive her sense of humor.:rolleye2: |
| Airsucker05-27-05, 02:51 PM | There doesn't have to be any why. I like the war-forged (ROBOT) ninja more than I like the naga. That's all. Neither can possilby measure up to Meepo! :w00t: |
| Enterik05-27-05, 03:36 PM | Your major problem is ill thought out and as a result make you look a bit silly. I'm sure everyone has noted the fact that the Naga has a half dragon template. Give yourselves a round of applause. Give yourselves another if you recognised that amethyst dragons are inheirantly psionic creature. Yes, yes. Now, anyone who stated that psionics were involved, I know there are a fair number of you. You lot, take a pen and jam it in your right eye. <Gasp!> If you plan on comenting please do a minimal amount of research. The half-Dragon template does not grant spell-like abilities, or in the case of a gem dragon, psi-like abilites. Even if it did, those wonderful chaps at Wizards of the Coast have this habit of creating creatures for their books that while using alien mechanics, such as psionics, do not need additional materials. "Lies!" you may say. Well pick up your monster manual. Look at the classic Illithid, a favoutite of all, or the Yuan-ti. Oops! Oh my! They appear to be psionic creatures as well. And what is this? You don't need the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Never! But that is just the first flaw in your reasoning. Now for chapter two. The folks at Wizards of the Coast have this strange but rather useful habit of providing COMPREHENSIVE STAT BLOCKS, for all significant creatures in their published adventures. Frozen-crap-on-a-stick, even Meepo (he da bomb) had a stat block. So if they did write an adventure around the Naga you wouldn't need any such supplement, despite the lack of psionics. And the final flaw that I wish to coment on. The Naga is a Druid -> Master of Many Forms. She lacks any psionic classes, and thus a source of psionic powers. Mmm, dig that cutting action! Amethyst dragons are psionic dragons, their breath weapon is most simply described as a psychokinetic effect, and while it is never explicitly described as such, it seems a reasonable extension of the whole psionic-dragon notion. If you accept that, then the inherited template would confer breath weapon and resistance benefits. For the Amethyst dragon these are... Breath Weapon (Su): An amethyst dragon has one type of breath weapon: a line of concussive force. The concussive force pummels those affected with telekinetic force. The amethyst dragon may choose to deal an equal amount of subdual damage instead of normal damage. Force Resistant (Ex): Amethyst dragons gain a +4 saving throw bonus against force psionic powers, spells, or effects. Since she probably large size caegory, she'll have a set of wings and a fly speed as well. That psionic power or manifester levels are not conferred by the half-dragon template is true, but it does not preclude the acquisition of such, no more than the robot ninja is precluded from being 1st level or having a bum knee. Mainly, my vote is for the Naga with a cause, her half-dragon-ness may in the end be a stealthy power up that puts over-confident Naga hunters back on their heals(sic), but to me, the Naga still more interesting than robot ninja, even if 'robby' does have a limp. |
| Epicfetus05-27-05, 03:41 PM | I think the issue is that templates, classes, etc. are just RULES. They are no more creative or uncreative as any other RULE. That being said...applying a strange combination of templates is NOT creativity, it's bad theory. Also, just sticking to base classes isn't creative either. The creativity comes in after the fact. BUT, beware overly-complicating your creations. Half-Dragon Pixies and Half-celestial Succubi Paladins just ncome off as cheesy and over-done. Basically, be careful of suspension of disbelief. If we are to try and believe a world where people can cast magic and relgions show themselves to be true through spell granting, we need to keep some things in perspective. Outsiders are examples of their alignments, for instance. I'm not even going to try to put my issues with half-dragons to words (especially mixed with pixies et. al). If outsiders act too independantly, they become less a philosophical viewpoint and more a "human with unholy sexieness", which starts to detract from the point. In most D&D worlds, humans are on top. There is a reason for this...other races have mindset limitations that allow humans to excel. Lifting these limitations too often is bad. The occasional good drow? sure, though overdone after Drizzt (in the thousands of Drizzt clones). But succubus paladin? too much...succubi are further removed from humans than drow, and are outsiders from an alignment-plane, hence the chance of them reforming is slight. and Paladin?!?!?!? sorry, no. Maybe it's a creative backstory, BUT, it tears holes in suspension of disbelief. You want creative villians? try plotting out their motivations, favorite foods, etc. Use the 20 questions thing in my sig (ignoring the campaign-specific question). That'll help with PC or NPC. Basically, make them REAL, and then any template you have will make sense. Of course, i've found that templates also take away from creativity...as do races, etc. I only had one template-character I ever liked, he was a Reformed from Ravenloft...man that was fun. Everyone else was just plain-old human (even the Reformed, a Swashbuckler-type named Jean-Yves was human). I tend to make my humans more detailed, because they're human. The above poster likely does the same, hence his anti-template reflex. I have the same reflex, because few templated-creatures are well thought out, and more than a few in a campaign tends to ruin the mood. |
| Azuaron05-27-05, 07:26 PM | Vote for the warforged ninja this week and Xxerlflyyn the Beholder next week so we can have a pirate vs. ninja vote. Am I the only one who DOESN'T want to see this board flooded with pirate vs. ninja arguments from hell? Just curious. |
| Azuaron05-27-05, 07:38 PM | ...because you've presented a quasi-real illusion of my actual position, due to some pretty convenient excerpting on your part. I will attempt to dispel :thinks: First thing, I said I have an anti-template REFLEX, not compulsion. If you look back through most of my posts on this match-up, I've been championing the Dragon-Naga breed and yawning over the robot ninja. :zzz: My basic premise is that simplicity in the (non-player or player) character generation mechanics can allow one to employ imagination to derive an interesting personage to roleplay and develop over the course of the game. Conversely, I found that too many templates can often, though not necessarily, pre-empt the creative process, especially if used to recreate something seen in the movies or comic books...Hey! look at me, I'm a werewolf vampire with retractable adamantium claws and a surrey with a fringe on top :yuck:. I won't take an absolutist stand to defend these notions, they're more like observations, and as always, I won't tell my players what to do with their fun. PS The most powerful necromancer in my world is a gnoll cleric (death and trickery domains) named Akuji (African for dead and awake). I wasn't singling you out specifically per se, but just as an example. I've seen many posts of people not voting for a specific creature just because it's templated, and that doesn't seem to make sense. Templates, when used correctly, greatly enhance game play. Anything overdone can kill the game, and templates are no exception. But, we'll go back to my previous template example: a half-pyroclastic dragon/insectoid halfling dragon stalker. Two templates, one the half-dragon that gets most yelled at for being overused. But as long as he's not used as "You see a weird-ass creature the size of a halfling. Fight it." he can be a great asset to the game. Just add an interesting backstory: he was created by his father (pyroclastic dragon) to be a general of his (the dragon's) armies. After creation, he didn't like this idea. After he attempted to murder his father, his father exiled him to current world, were he takes his revenge out on any true dragon he finds, and champions other misfits such as himself (especially weird dragon creations: half-dragons, draconians, dragon spawn, etc). Now we've got a full character, completely original, and can't be created without templates. This is the kind of thing I was talking about. Some people seem to be assuming that just because it's templated it's a munchkin thing that should never have existed in the first place and needs to be voted down immediately. I was just trying to make the point that templates can enhance the game. Sorry if I came off as just bashing you, I've been under a lot of stress lately and was in a bad mood yesterday. :D |
| kuhTHOOloo05-27-05, 08:18 PM | Am I the only one who DOESN'T want to see this board flooded with pirate vs. ninja arguments from hell? Just curious. Yes. Yes you are. And for future reference, Xxerlflyyn = Errol Flynn = More swashbuckly goodness than Geoffrey Rush duct-taped to Blackbeard. |
| AndrewRF05-27-05, 09:40 PM | the ninja is just so much cooler than the Naga. I'll never understand why people think ninjas are so cool. Personally, I can't think of anything more cliched than a robot ninja. *sigh* Unfortunately, I have a feeling that's going to be the overall winner. |
| Drindin05-28-05, 02:23 AM | I'll never understand why people think ninjas are so cool. Personally, I can't think of anything more cliched than a robot ninja. *sigh* Unfortunately, I have a feeling that's going to be the overall winner.' Amen, brother. |
| Scaly One05-28-05, 03:23 AM | That's just straight Ign'ant, dawg. However, :surrender You got me fair and square. I have never looked up stats on half Gem Dragons, and just assumed. I feel I should point out that I love the concept of Gem Dragons (I'm a geology buff), and only wish they weren't psi. I'm sorry Doctor, we were unable to revive her sense of humor.:rolleye2: [Bahh, shut to the hell down (and adress to Asmodeus) the psionic origin, use-it as a normal dragon with awesome scales that look like sculpted from pure amethyst, and done ^^ (yes I REALY like amethyst, including the dragons). And if it matters, I prefer the psionic power sistem to the spells/day one. I like the psionic idea? Well I find interesting on the level of telepathy and "psychokinesis" but what the WotC made, gimme a break! I still use'en the same way, instead of wizards and sorcerers as magic users...] |
| Red_Decker05-28-05, 03:28 AM | I doubt the ninja will see the final match. While yes ninja's are cool, there are cooler things in the competition. This match clearly shows people are just tired of templated things. You can't put a fiendish half dragon-kobold hexblade with no background I just can't help but wonder how the beholder holds the rapier? http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/lady1raven/meepo/Meepo_02.gif |
| Scaly One05-28-05, 03:29 AM | Neither can possilby measure up to Meepo! :w00t: Now me agresss with the defender of nymphsss lady... |
| Scaly One05-28-05, 03:35 AM | Am I the only one who DOESN'T want to see this board flooded with pirate vs. ninja arguments from hell? Just curious. [No... You may be in the dark, but are not alone... :raincloud ] |
| ursa2305-28-05, 03:46 AM | I'll never understand why people think ninjas are so cool. Allow me to illuminate. Ninjas; and their seaworthy counterparts, Pirates; are staples in fantasy fandom for two reasons. One, they actually existed in historical Earth; and two, their fantasy versions have little to nothing to do with their historical versions. Ninjas (as I understand) were little more than specialized mercenaries, and Pirates were thieves with scurvy. These groups are paragons of modern myth. If you wonder why they have such a rabid following, go to your local video store. For pirates, everything from classic Xxerlflyyn -sorry- Errol Flynn flicks (Captain Blood, The Sea Hawk) to the rousing Pirates of the Carribbean. Ninjas practically have their own section, though tragically glutted with Three Ninjas and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles sequels. With such romanticism, how can they not grip at the collective subconscious? An RPGer is nothing if not a pop culture maven. As there have been few Druid, Lich or Advanced Belkar Soul Eater films or books, it's easy to understand why they don't have such a rabid following. Not that they aren't good, but they don't have marketing campaigns, theme park rides, or nifty black pajamas. John Q. Creaturevoter doesn't have a mental image built into the old membrane. That's mah two cents. As to the better of the two, that's a whole 'nother can of beans. |
| kuhTHOOloo05-28-05, 09:28 AM | I just can't help but wonder how the beholder holds the rapier? (In Sigfried and Roy style voice) Dah! It's mahgic! |
| delroland05-28-05, 01:24 PM | [Bahh, shut to the hell down (and adress to Asmodeus) the psionic origin, use-it as a normal dragon with awesome scales that look like sculpted from pure amethyst, and done ^^ (yes I REALY like amethyst, including the dragons). And if it matters, I prefer the psionic power sistem to the spells/day one. I like the psionic idea? Well I find interesting on the level of telepathy and "psychokinesis" but what the WotC made, gimme a break! I still use'en the same way, instead of wizards and sorcerers as magic users...] Blaarr! Me am got guud gramur! Seriously, no one gives a flying poo about whether you like psionics better than spells or not. It still doesn't change the fact that half-amethyst dragons are definately NOT psionic. I don't know why this is still even being discussed. WotC WILL use the RAW, regardless of what you or I want. And the RAW EXPLICITLY states that a half-amethyst dragon's breath weapon is a SUPERNATURAL ability, and NOT psionic, for then it would have to be a spell-like ability with the descriptor "Psionics(sp)" in the descriptive text. So stop arguing, before you embarass yourself. :rolleyes: |
| Epicfetus05-28-05, 01:30 PM | first of all, Ninjas do NOT fight Pirates. Ninjas Fight Robots. Pirates fight Cavemen. Simple. Why do you ask? Pirates vs. Cavemen is a simple extension of Cavemen aggression (namely against dinosaurs) and a lack of education (namely on the differences between a Ship of the Line and a Tyrannosaurus). Seeing the Pirate Ship as a Dinosaur, cave men attack it. Pirates, who tend to bury treasure on islands inhabited by savages (who live in caves...cave men!) are forced to defend their Booty (in all senses of the term) against their cave-dwelling aggressors. Of course, the pirates are usually the aggressors, but cave men tend to have really crappy treasure, so arn't worth attacking. Ninjas vs. Robots is a much more complicated affair, having to do with Honor and the Turning Machine. Unfortunatly, it's a secret, and if I told you, a Ninja would have to flip out and totally kill everyone on these boards, then uppercut some dudes dog, and rock-out on his guitar. Sorry, those are the rules. Now then, a Beholder Swashbuckler (which is not the same thing as a Pirate, though they tend to share a movie genre and time period), has the flaw of no-hands, hence no rapier. A Beholder Pirate is very possible (why not?) but a Beholder Swashbuckler, by loose or restrictive definitions, isn't happening. I mean, he can't hold a rapier, let alone slam a smallsword against a buckler in duels in england (restrictive definition: British Duelists fought with a light-weight slashing sword called the smallsword and a buckler, and would bang their sword against the buckler, or "swash their buckler" before duels...kinda like making the fist to hand clappy noise or slapping your chest before a fight..the name has then been applied, in English, to all duelists of the era, and since most of europe was into rapiers...yeah. The simmilarity between swashbucklers and pirates, especially in theatrical combat, have caused the same actors to star in those films, and hence the overlap of the term to also cover pirates, who tended to not use rapiers or bucklers). Where was I? Oh yeah...beholder cannot be a swashbuckler, but I see no reason why he can't own a ship and be a pirate. Thogh a zombie ship-mascot seems a bit...um...not good. |
| delroland05-28-05, 01:39 PM | :surrender You got me fair and square. I have never looked up stats on half Gem Dragons, and just assumed. I feel I should point out that I love the concept of Gem Dragons (I'm a geology buff), and only wish they weren't psi. Gems have a lot more spiritual and psychic beliefs associated with them than precious metals, hence the choice for psionic dragons. 'Sides, psions in 3.5 aren't much different than sorcerors as far as their mechanic goes. They are nothing like the mess of psionics that was AD&D or 2nd Ed; now that was a nightmare... If you are a geology (and specifically gem) buff, I am surprised you don't already know something about the holistic and spiritual side of gems. Personally, I think it is bunk, but it is still somewhat interesting to read. Plus it very easily translates into a DnD setting when describing a magic item. Headbands of Intellect +2 take on a new flavor when you actually describe the emerald that is in them, along with a pic from the net and a plagiariz-- I mean, borrowed holistic description, such as: "The emerald is associated with Mercury, the planet of nerves, intellect, memory, creative ability and mind. This gem has the power to cure all sorts of eye and ear troubles, forgetfulness, epilepsy, stammering, insanity and nervous disorders. Real emeralds can be determined by holding them for some times before the eyes. A fake stone will impart a hot or irritable sensation to the eyes. But a real emerald will soon make the eyes cool." Taken from here (http://craftsinindia.com/products/gems/stones/healinggems.html). |
| Sirix05-28-05, 02:46 PM | ... An RPGer is nothing if not a pop culture maven. As there have been few Druid, Lich or Advanced Belkar Soul Eater films or books, it's easy to understand why they don't have such a rabid following. Not that they aren't good, but they don't have marketing campaigns, theme park rides, or nifty black pajamas. John Q. Creaturevoter doesn't have a mental image built into the old membrane. ... Oh really? :rolleyes: I think you're forgetting about the New York Times bestseller The Belkar Code or the long-awaited Belkar Episode III: Revenge of the Soul Eater. Get with it, man! |
| Thuragrun05-28-05, 03:18 PM | Real emeralds can be determined by holding them for some times before the eyes. A fake stone will impart a hot or irritable sensation to the eyes. But a real emerald will soon make the eyes cool." Taken from here (http://craftsinindia.com/products/gems/stones/healinggems.html). That is the silliest thing I have heard all day. |
| Kadasbrass05-28-05, 03:46 PM | While ninjas may be interesting in some campaigns, the warforged ninja just leaves a bad after taste in my mouth, of course the naga not that great either. But rest assured we will not see a beholder pirate vs a warforged ninja. I believe the drow lich with her iron golem phylactery would be something more interesting for an adventure and will beat Xxerlflyyn single handed. |
| ursa2305-28-05, 03:47 PM | If you are a geology (and specifically gem) buff, I am surprised you don't already know something about the holistic and spiritual side of gems. Personally, I think it is bunk, but it is still somewhat interesting to read. Oh, I know. Believe me, I know. It's just that Newage philosophy gives me a severe case of the throw-ups. For a definitive look at the subject, check out "Penn & Teller's Bullsh*t" from HBO. |
| The_Newborn05-28-05, 07:09 PM | Amethyst dragons are psionic dragons, their breath weapon is most simply described as a psychokinetic effect, and while it is never explicitly described as such, it seems a reasonable extension of the whole psionic-dragon notion. If you accept that, then the inherited template would confer breath weapon and resistance benefits. For the Amethyst dragon these are... Breath Weapon (Su): An amethyst dragon has one type of breath weapon: a line of concussive force. The concussive force pummels those affected with telekinetic force. The amethyst dragon may choose to deal an equal amount of subdual damage instead of normal damage. Force Resistant (Ex): Amethyst dragons gain a +4 saving throw bonus against force psionic powers, spells, or effects. Since she probably large size caegory, she'll have a set of wings and a fly speed as well. Sorry to pop your pimple but said half-dragon(amethyst) grants a line of force with no special properties, or fries for that matter. The are not force resistant they are immune to poison. That psionic power or manifester levels are not conferred by the half-dragon template is true, but it does not preclude the acquisition of such, no more than the robot ninja is precluded from being 1st level or having a bum knee. The lack of psionic class levels might though. As a druid/MoMF it is clear that they have no manifesting ability |
| zank05-28-05, 08:33 PM | celestial dire badger is going to be the winner of it all so u know vote for him. |
| skyler05-29-05, 02:14 AM | okay this a question ive been wondering a warforged is made a least in part of metal what happens if a rust monster attacks him to the best of my knowladge a rust monster can rust any metal even magic items is the war forged immune dose he take crazy damage as large parts of his body rust to dust if hes immune are his weapon limbs immune as well ive heard it said he is also made of wood what about warp wood can that tear him apart? heat / chill metal what do this thing do to warforged that sounds like alot of unusualy vulnurabiltys and allso what dose a warforged weigh it sounds heavy could it sneak across a roof with out falling through |
| delroland05-29-05, 07:20 AM | Oh, I know. Believe me, I know. It's just that Newage philosophy gives me a severe case of the throw-ups. For a definitive look at the subject, check out "Penn & Teller's Bullsh*t" from HBO. That is the silliest thing I have heard all day. Again, I agree that it is bunk, but there were beliefs in medieval times that certain stones had certain properties, and in a game with magic and dragons, it does not seem to me to be wholly inappropriate, if only for a little flavor. That is all I am saying, nothing more, nothing less. And the example I provided was just the first thing that popped up on google. I especially like the Penn & Teller about our so-called "security". :) |
| Monsoon2805-29-05, 07:24 AM | Yes Rust Monster are one bane to Warforged, the other Druids (Rusting Grasp & Warp Wood, for example.) |
| Azuaron05-29-05, 12:54 PM | Oh yeah...beholder cannot be a swashbuckler, but I see no reason why he can't own a ship and be a pirate. Thogh a zombie ship-mascot seems a bit...um...not good. (Damn I hate having to say the same thing for every creature) Okay, the beholder can be a swashbuckler in the D&D sense. Why? Because the creators said so. Therefore, it can. End of story. Oh, I know. Believe me, I know. It's just that Newage philosophy gives me a severe case of the throw-ups. For a definitive look at the subject, check out "Penn & Teller's Bullsh*t" from HBO. For those of you looking to watch "Penn & Teller's Bullsh*t" look for it on Showtime, not HBO. If you have Comcast Digital cable, On Demand is very useful in this instance. okay this a question ive been wondering a warforged is made a least in part of metal what happens if a rust monster attacks him to the best of my knowladge a rust monster can rust any metal even magic items is the war forged immune dose he take crazy damage as large parts of his body rust to dust if hes immune are his weapon limbs immune as well ive heard it said he is also made of wood what about warp wood can that tear him apart? heat / chill metal what do this thing do to warforged that sounds like alot of unusualy vulnurabiltys and allso what dose a warforged weigh it sounds heavy could it sneak across a roof with out falling through (If you are offended by language in all its vulgar forms, do not click on below links.) For you, go to Penny Arcade (here: http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2003-07-07&res=l) and review about Mr. Period. Later, enter the lair of the semicolon (http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2005-04-18) and more with Mr. Period (http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-11-03) Then, go to school, and don't fail English for what I'm guessing would be the 80th time. :ayyyy!: |
| Meshakhad05-29-05, 01:21 PM | One of the beholder's eye rays is telekinesis. |
| Meshakhad05-29-05, 01:24 PM | This warforged has COMPOSITE plating. Immune to rusting grasp. |
| Monsoon2805-29-05, 01:52 PM | This warforged has COMPOSITE plating. Immune to rusting grasp. That's just lame, when do we see the upgrade WarforgedB with Depleted Uranium Armour? :rolleyes: |
| Sprain Ogre05-29-05, 02:54 PM | Wow. This is kinda tough because I really don't have a geeky knee jerk reaction to one or the other. But let's look at the numbers real quick, they might give me a better idea of this match up. One the one side, you have a tweaked out Iridescent Naga that is templated (with a force based breath weapon no less!), class leveled, and prestige class equipped. Pretty focused, and the 1/2 dragon in this case gives a little bit of combat ability in the right places with a force effect to round out the other Druidic spells and shape shifting. I like the combo. Then we have a warforged ninja. A warforged. A ninja. With this, it would come down to class levels to catch up with Ellith'rin. Saying that they are somewhat the same level, that warforged has a peck of cool ninja abilities, and some pretty good gear, but no evasion, and that is not a good thing for this fight. But this isn't about the numbers. So, on one side we have a Half-Amethyst Dragon/Iridescent Naga druid/master of many forms. That's a mouthful. Good spread of abilities and some real punch along with a pretty good selection of wild shapes to top it off. But it does use that 1/2 dragon template. Sure, it's not a metallic/chromatic cross breed, so it's a bit outside the norm, and we don't see much of the gem dragons these days so it's nice to at least see their kids getting some spotlight time. Kudos! And I do like the Master of Many Forms PRC. But more then that, I like to get my hate on against aberrations (one of my top choices for favored enemies), and with Lords of Madness in hand, well, Ellith'rin could be in for some real pain from the rangers I like to play. Now we have the warforged ninja. That just has a nice ring to it, warforged ninja. Yeah, I can see sending a few of those at my party. I think the thing I like best about them, is that you wouldn't expect this warforged walking at you to be a ninja. The standard warforged is built to be a strait forward, give you a bad day, combatant. This warforged is one that will walk by you, tip his hat politely, then turn invisible and hit you where it hurt before you have a chance to realize that he's got that faint sheen of silver! Just another level of 'bet you didn't see THAT coming!' that makes the DM's job fun. On top of that, this is a pretty playable build, while our Naga friend is not. I think this is the first contestant that both players and DM's can find a use for, and there's something cool about that. And, he is a ninja. That scores major points. In the end, it was really on the wire for me, but my love of the ninja class as NPC's and villains when I DM, won this one over for me. My vote: Warforged Ninja :w00t: I think the DU body feat is going to be in Magic of Eberron, but don't quote me on this or anything... :P |
| skyler05-29-05, 03:12 PM | so becuse a warforged is made of a composit of materials all said matarieals are immune to specific attack. seemes a little unfair theirs all sorts of nasty monsters that can affect the individual parts of a living creatur like say a mind flayer can eat your brain leaches drink your blood ect. |
| Sprain Ogre05-29-05, 03:32 PM | PS The most powerful necromancer in my world is a gnoll cleric (death and trickery domains) named Akuji (African for dead and awake). On my world it's a human Necromancer named Bob. Although he has retired and settled down with his wife and daughter, he still likes to do his research. So, from time to time, adventures bump into old Bob when he's out and about. Examining graves, hunting down information on new types of undead, been researching deathless of late too, but hasn't got very far. Sometimes he asks if he can dissect adventurers with weird/unusual powers (he's writing a book on the nature of fast healing and regeneration at the moment). He's more then willing to pay them for their time too. If you don't mind being cut open and examined... (note: Bob makes sure to cure you up at the end. After all, if you’re nice enough to let him cut you open, he ought to be nice enough to patch you back up when he's done. Only civilized...) |
| Davian05-29-05, 05:23 PM | A tin man that strikes before anyone knows its there... |
| Azuaron05-29-05, 06:19 PM | So, I'm sitting here Sunday afternoon, and I just had a thought. At this point, swaying people over to your side of the monster fence probably won't matter too much. I'm willing to bet almost everyone's already put their vote in. So, why don't we have people make predictions on who's going to win? Pure predictions NOT based on how good YOU think the creature is, but based on what people have been saying on the boards. I'll start: Warforged Ninja this week. Sorry Naga folks, there are too many Ninja lovers out there, and I bet this Naga gets beat like a red-headed step-child in the form of Lady Bestine. |
| DM (Da Man)05-29-05, 06:37 PM | yeah im glad the tarrasque won, but everyone make sure to vote for meepo. A celestial dire badger, how lame is that. You got to have meepo v. the tarrasque. If those two go head to head who knows who'll win. :confused: I know alot of people want to see a campaign with the tarrasque as the centerpeice, but imagine if you had the meepo as the center peice of a campaign. Lets see WOTC pull that one off. :schemes: have these pre-epic characters go forward on a quest after the mysterious meepo. and come to find out it's a kobold. :rofl: C'mon a DM could have loads of fun just seeing the PC's faces. And the pre-epic PC's could have loads of fun doing whatever they wanted to meepo. oh yeah. My main man Meepo. :D -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The succubus should totally be voted for because it's hotter than a hellfire wyrms breath attack. :bow: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- seriously, think about the possibilities for halarity. |
| Airsucker05-29-05, 07:06 PM | I just started running Sunless Citadel for my husband and our new recruit. Another gamer chic joins the D&D crowd and meets Meepo! :dancin: Go Meepo, go! :fight!: :w00t: |
| lordadam905-29-05, 07:23 PM | :censored: :crazy: HONESTLY MEEPO!!!!!! Why does everybody love a god @#$% son of a *&^%# Kobold named Meepo?!!!?!!! He's just a named Kobold among untold Millions!!!! Sure he tends dragons but alone he's screwed!!!!!!!!!! Oh yeah I voted Ninja Down with Meepo!!!!!!! |
| Falrion05-29-05, 07:46 PM | first of all, Ninjas do NOT fight Pirates. Ninjas Fight Robots. Pirates fight Cavemen. Simple. Why do you ask? Pirates vs. Cavemen is a simple extension of Cavemen aggression (namely against dinosaurs) and a lack of education (namely on the differences between a Ship of the Line and a Tyrannosaurus). Seeing the Pirate Ship as a Dinosaur, cave men attack it. Pirates, who tend to bury treasure on islands inhabited by savages (who live in caves...cave men!) are forced to defend their Booty (in all senses of the term) against their cave-dwelling aggressors. Of course, the pirates are usually the aggressors, but cave men tend to have really crappy treasure, so arn't worth attacking. Ninjas vs. Robots is a much more complicated affair, having to do with Honor and the Turning Machine. Unfortunatly, it's a secret, and if I told you, a Ninja would have to flip out and totally kill everyone on these boards, then uppercut some dudes dog, and rock-out on his guitar. Sorry, those are the rules. Man!!! WHERE THE HECK DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS CRAP???!!! I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A JOKE HERE AND THERE, BUT THIS POST IS TO DISCUSS OUT OPINIONS ABOUT THE MATCH-UPS, NOT SMOKE SOME BLUNTS AND TYPE THE FIRST MORONIC WORDS THAT COME TO MIND!!! |
| PrinceAzar05-29-05, 07:54 PM | Go Robot Ninja!!! :) http://xoomer.virgilio.it/amasoni2002/shl/originals/robot_ninja_(1990)/poster.jpg |
| lordadam905-29-05, 08:45 PM | it's just that I am sick and tired of people saying something that doesn't exsist should waste 5 minutes of their time to vote for something that probably won't change any campaigns if the monster they voted for didn't make it. Oh sure I voted...only because I saw the poll while browsing through the site. |
| lordadam905-29-05, 08:48 PM | and its just my opinion on Meepo. |
| Scaly One05-29-05, 10:16 PM | Man!!! WHERE THE HECK DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS CRAP???!!! I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A JOKE HERE AND THERE, BUT THIS POST IS TO DISCUSS OUT OPINIONS ABOUT THE MATCH-UPS, NOT SMOKE SOME BLUNTS AND TYPE THE FIRST MORONIC WORDS THAT COME TO MIND!!! Me thinksss that one got my pressciousss Ungol Fumesss pipe borrrowed... |
| Azuaron05-30-05, 12:41 AM | Man!!! WHERE THE HECK DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS CRAP???!!! I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A JOKE HERE AND THERE, BUT THIS POST IS TO DISCUSS OUT OPINIONS ABOUT THE MATCH-UPS, NOT SMOKE SOME BLUNTS AND TYPE THE FIRST MORONIC WORDS THAT COME TO MIND!!! Damn straight! Stop :censored:-ing around with so much drugs. (A couple others on this board may also benefit from this advice.) |
| Epicfetus05-30-05, 01:01 AM | (Damn I hate having to say the same thing for every creature) Okay, the beholder can be a swashbuckler in the D&D sense. Why? Because the creators said so. Therefore, it can. End of story. Right, though the rest of my post was pointing out that he's a PIRATE, not a swashbuckler...the D&D sense is the same as the movie sense. Also, someone mentioned a telekinetic eye-stock...if he wins, man I hope he uses a rapier with it, even though it's pointless, it'd be funny....hey, maybe someone rapier'd his main eye out...hmmm. Though he blatantly needs to be a plot-character, and not a villian...I mean, how cool would that be? Man!!! WHERE THE HECK DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS CRAP???!!! I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A JOKE HERE AND THERE, BUT THIS POST IS TO DISCUSS OUT OPINIONS ABOUT THE MATCH-UPS, NOT SMOKE SOME BLUNTS AND TYPE THE FIRST MORONIC WORDS THAT COME TO MIND!!! This is the most beautiful post ever. First, the use of all capital letters and over-use of punctuation just add to the flavor. Then, he hits us with "AND TYPE THE FIRST MORONIC WORDS THAT COME TO MIND!!!", a subtle yet intricatly placed irony. Very well done. He starts off by mentioning his tolerance of the occassional joke, which the part of my post he quoted blatantly was. Then, as another irony, he says "THIS POST IS TO DISCUSS OUT OPINIONS ABOUT THE MATCH-UPS", which, ironically, it was not, as his post was there to attack mine. If we assume he ment "THIS thread..." (which, due to the beauty of the rest of the post, is doubtful; as the use of THIS was clearly done to demonstrate a superior knowledge of the ironic on the part of our intrepid poster), then the irony still shows through, as I go on to discuss the merits and flaws of the Beholder, Xxerlflyyn, another competitor in this contest. Also, to "DISCUSS OUT", another irony, mixing to "talk out" and to "discuss", brilliant! "So I must say "bravo" to a man who, clearly, disguised a well placed ironic criticism, a joke of epic-proportions, in the guise of a simple post by the stereotypical RPGer, the 12 year old who will never have enough social skills to see a woman naked. But clearly, this poster is not that kid, but rather a master of language and critique, who's methods are flawless. I only hope that; (1) he views this as some sort of attack or ill-used attempt at humor, and once again graces us with his cutting wit and (2) that he himself has enjoyed the cannibis plant prior to his post, as the only way to increase the sheer joyus irony that was it. Falrion, I bow to your superior wit and use of humor, and only hope to someday be a 10th as clever as you are. |
| Drindin05-30-05, 01:08 AM | I'm going for the spider myself in the next matchup... there's just something too cool about a Lich that uses a giagantic metal spider as it's phylactery... Several tons of big, iron-clad goodness! |
| ursa2305-30-05, 01:53 AM | So, why don't we have people make predictions on who's going to win? Pure predictions NOT based on how good YOU think the creature is, but based on what people have been saying on the boards. An excellent idea, and one that I had thought to elaborate on. Then I realized that the Meepo v. Succubus fight comes in the SECOND ROUND! This is the battle that will determine the inevitable winner. This is the battle that will crash the website. When the Meepo-Succubus fight is over, the only competition the other candidates will have is "Who Got Stomped Least". And I have no idea who will emerge victorious in this epic contest. I hope it's the Succubus, but Meepo has a rabid following. It's drama versus humor, and I have no idea which will win. I'm very upset :confused: |
| Ironbrand05-30-05, 03:02 AM | I wonder when wizards will do a giant dragon battle. Like this one. |
| Falrion05-30-05, 08:09 AM | This is the most beautiful post ever. First, the use of all capital letters and over-use of punctuation just add to the flavor. Then, he hits us with "AND TYPE THE FIRST MORONIC WORDS THAT COME TO MIND!!!", a subtle yet intricatly placed irony. Very well done. He starts off by mentioning his tolerance of the occassional joke, which the part of my post he quoted blatantly was. Then, as another irony, he says "THIS POST IS TO DISCUSS OUT OPINIONS ABOUT THE MATCH-UPS", which, ironically, it was not, as his post was there to attack mine. If we assume he ment "THIS thread..." (which, due to the beauty of the rest of the post, is doubtful; as the use of THIS was clearly done to demonstrate a superior knowledge of the ironic on the part of our intrepid poster), then the irony still shows through, as I go on to discuss the merits and flaws of the Beholder, Xxerlflyyn, another competitor in this contest. Also, to "DISCUSS OUT", another irony, mixing to "talk out" and to "discuss", brilliant! "So I must say "bravo" to a man who, clearly, disguised a well placed ironic criticism, a joke of epic-proportions, in the guise of a simple post by the stereotypical RPGer, the 12 year old who will never have enough social skills to see a woman naked. But clearly, this poster is not that kid, but rather a master of language and critique, who's methods are flawless. I only hope that; (1) he views this as some sort of attack or ill-used attempt at humor, and once again graces us with his cutting wit and (2) that he himself has enjoyed the cannibis plant prior to his post, as the only way to increase the sheer joyus irony that was it. Falrion, I bow to your superior wit and use of humor, and only hope to someday be a 10th as clever as you are. I hope you had your good share of laughs with my post. I know I made a lot of mistakes in it (English is not my native tongue) and I really got P :censored: OFF by that "joke" about pirates and cavemen... :confused: When I said "discuss out", i meant "discuss ABOUT"... It was a mere type error... I know I should have done a better job before posting, but I know I had a point... That ranting about cavemen vs pirate stuff had nothing to do with this thread, so it would be nice if we all just discussed about the topic at hand (the creature competition, not if cavemen see the pirates ship as dinosaurs). It may have been the wrong way to say what i thought, and maybe i should have tried to be humorous and witty, maybe that way you would have not taken it the wrong way... |
| Falrion05-30-05, 08:29 AM | I'm going for the spider myself in the next matchup... there's just something too cool about a Lich that uses a giagantic metal spider as it's phylactery... Several tons of big, iron-clad goodness! Iron-clad goodness? :confused: maybe if you are the lich... I don´t think any adventurer would think of the Iron Golem/Phylactery as being good... not even an Int 3 Half-Orc Barbarian would like to duke it out with it. Also remind it is a GREATER iron golem :uh-huh: wich would translate into more destructive power than a normal golem :gah: So My vote for next round goes for the Rotting Spellcasting Elf and her Heavy Armored Spider-Looking Bodyguard... Or is it soulguard :confused: PS: the pirate beholder is funny, but thats all it is... a funny NPC... |
| Red_Decker05-30-05, 08:35 AM | Iron-clad goodness? :confused: maybe if you are the lich... I don´t think any adventurer would think of the Iron Golem/Phylactery as being good... not even an Int 3 Half-Orc Barbarian would like to duke it out with it. Also remind it is a GREATER iron golem :uh-huh: wich would translate into more destructive power than a normal golem :gah: So My vote for next round goes for the Rotting Spellcasting Elf and her Heavy Armored Spider-Looking Bodyguard... Or is it soulguard :confused: PS: the pirate beholder is funny, but thats all it is... a funny NPC... That's the point it's good for the DM and my drow/illithid war It'll give DMs a nice toy to play with. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/lady1raven/meepo/Meepo_02.gif |
| bgt05-30-05, 09:10 AM | That's the point it's good for the DM and my drow/illithid war You are a sick, sick man, Red_Decker :P |
| Vicki Cadae05-30-05, 10:33 AM | So, why don't we have people make predictions on who's going to win? Pure predictions NOT based on how good YOU think the creature is, but based on what people have been saying on the boards. The ninja. Then the pirate. There's really no way for this not to lead to ninja vs. pirate, and Meepo vs. succubus. The winner of ninja vs. pirate will then have to face the Tarrasque, and while it will be a close call, the Tarrasque will probably win, and go on to face either the succubus or Meepo. I'm not gonna vote for the pirate though, 'cause it's a little too wrong to blind a Beholder's main eye, and a little too cool for a lich to have a phylactery that fights back. And I'm not gonna vote for the succubus, 'cause I love mind flayers. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/lady1raven/meepo/meepo_3.gif |
| Epicfetus05-30-05, 12:29 PM | I would hope that the Tarrasque doesn't advance anymore, but knowing the D&D community, it will. Dervish will lose, because it's simply a Tanar'ri, though I'm glad overdone templates have been losing so far. Meepo will spank the Celestial Dire Badger, though I think this is sad. I'm voting CDB, NOT because I hates me some Kobolds, in fact, our reptilian take on germanic goblins are rather cool (one-hit kills, rock the traps like it's their job), but rather because Meepo already has himself an adventure. All the CDB has is frustrated low-level Dwarven and Gnomish clerics who made the mistake of casting Summon Monster I. My prediction? It will come down to Tarrasque vs Meepo (despite my anti-T sentiments), and the Tarrasque will be handed it's backside by Meepo. Why? Meepo has almost the same following as the Tarrasque on these boards, and the people who think over-done templates are bad tend to be anti-tarrasque. Besides, the Tarrasque is based off of a French story. Kobold is German for "goblin". Les Allmonds ? Je les rends ! |
| Azuaron05-30-05, 01:40 PM | The ninja. Then the pirate. There's really no way for this not to lead to ninja vs. pirate, and Meepo vs. succubus. The winner of ninja vs. pirate will then have to face the Tarrasque, and while it will be a close call, the Tarrasque will probably win, and go on to face either the succubus or Meepo. I'm not gonna vote for the pirate though, 'cause it's a little too wrong to blind a Beholder's main eye, and a little too cool for a lich to have a phylactery that fights back. And I'm not gonna vote for the succubus, 'cause I love mind flayers. An excellent idea, and one that I had thought to elaborate on. Then I realized that the Meepo v. Succubus fight comes in the SECOND ROUND! This is the battle that will determine the inevitable winner. This is the battle that will crash the website. When the Meepo-Succubus fight is over, the only competition the other candidates will have is "Who Got Stomped Least". And I have no idea who will emerge victorious in this epic contest. I hope it's the Succubus, but Meepo has a rabid following. It's drama versus humor, and I have no idea which will win. I'm very upset :confused: Next time, I'll have to be more clear. I meant for this round. Tomorrow is the deadline, most people have already voted, so I was wondering on predictions for this round. |
| Kadasbrass05-30-05, 03:07 PM | :censored: :crazy: HONESTLY MEEPO!!!!!! Why does everybody love a god @#$% son of a *&^%# Kobold named Meepo?!!!?!!! He's just a named Kobold among untold Millions!!!! Sure he tends dragons but alone he's screwed!!!!!!!!!! Oh yeah I voted Ninja Down with Meepo!!!!!!! Why do you like the Badger? Why do you like some powergamers dream of a ninja? Why like Meepo? For many people he was one of the first creatures they ran into in 3rd edition. For them the invoking of his very name brings back memories of beginning D&D. That is a very strong memory that compells people to vote for Meepo. For those who have not encountered Meepo, but like kobolds, he is one of the most famous of all Kobolds, he is the D&D version of Deekin Scalesinger. The Keeper of Dragons! Kobolds everywhere envy the honor he has in raising a dragon and wish to receive the same honor. For the rest he is a icon for billions of a oppressed voices. "If Meepo can do it. SO CAN WE!" How can you not vote for a mere Kobold who has risen to such stature? |
| Meshakhad05-30-05, 05:16 PM | OK, I will at least vote for Meepo over that stupid Celestial Dire Badger. Actually, Meepo also features in d20 Modern. In the monsters section, one of the kobold commandos has "Meepo" on his namepatch. So Meepo isn't just Keeper of Dragons. He is also a modern commando, with camo, radio, and cool weapons! |
| delroland05-30-05, 05:50 PM | On the subject of next week's h2h, I have to say that the swashbuckling beholder gets my vote. What is the other option? A drow with a spider follower! Ooh! So original! Who cares if the drow is undead and the spider is a golem? This has been done ad nauseum in the past, and no new drow adventure will ever even hold a candle to "City of the Spider Queen". That was the definitive drow module; an adventure starring the above drow lich would simply be a dull underdark romp. :yawn: |
| Kadasbrass05-30-05, 06:01 PM | I kinda like the idea of a Drow lich with a 'spider' iron golem as a pythawhatsyacallit. Maybe not original, but a useful idea for the foundation of a reoccuring villian. But unlike other liches, its not finding the phylactery thats the problem, the problem is having to figth the phylactery. Hey if it was a epic adventure, the lich could of use the CoR epic spell that allows you to transfer your phylactery into a number of different items and have a army of spider iron golems as the phylactery. |
| skyler05-30-05, 07:04 PM | its stupid to put the phaltatraphy in a golem it means that when their in her base they can kill her and her soul all at once if she were smart she would hide her soul in some incredible hard to find and reach place so if she dies she can come back to life putting it all in the same place is foolish you could have an iron golem guard the plantryph or have a golem guard her but an iron golem is vulnerable to rust monstere the phlatryph should be placed miles underground or in an extra dimmesinal space it should be nearly immposible ot get to it even if they know were it is puting a permanet non detection spell on it could stop them from even nowing were to begin to look so she would have to be a complete idiot to put it next to her its like shooting her self in the foot befor the fight even starts |
| bgt05-30-05, 07:58 PM | BBEGs are inherently stuipid; it's the only things us heroes having going for us, aside for our first-round tendencies to roll a double critical. :P |
| Leonidus05-30-05, 09:00 PM | its stupid to put the phaltatraphy in a golem it means that when their in her base they can kill her and her soul all at once if she were smart she would hide her soul in some incredible hard to find and reach place so if she dies she can come back to life putting it all in the same place is foolish you could have an iron golem guard the plantryph or have a golem guard her but an iron golem is vulnerable to rust monstere the phlatryph should be placed miles underground or in an extra dimmesinal space it should be nearly immposible ot get to it even if they know were it is puting a permanet non detection spell on it could stop them from even nowing were to begin to look so she would have to be a complete idiot to put it next to her its like shooting her self in the foot befor the fight even starts It's already been stated that the golem doesn't fight for her, it roams the surface independently. |
| rampant05-30-05, 11:45 PM | only a ninja can kill a ninja so the warforged ninja is going all the way baby oh yeah no one messes with the 'forged that pirate is toast, and the tarrasque is jelly |
| Ojoxsofeta05-31-05, 03:28 AM | An argument for Meepo: A module which involves kobolds, while it has been done, also has more potential at any level than any of the other contenders: it is infinitely scaleable. While there is a minimum level that you should be at to fight a tarrasque or a maralith (and survive), even a commoner 1 has a chance against one lowly kobold. And what would be a better way to demonstrate the punch of a monster with class levels than with a kobold with levels in sorcerer or rogue? Will adventurers who remember (or have run) the Sunless Citadel understimate Meepo again when he has 14 levels of sorcerer and will attempt to disintegrate them? What if the Keeper of the Dragons managed to come across a bigger dragon who sought to use the tribe in Sunless Citadel to further his plans over Oerth/Toril/etc? Or wouldn't it be interesting to see a showdown between the kobolds and the gnomes, a showdown between Kurtlmak and Garl Glittergold (and all their clerics and the like)? Meepo could be a high priest of Kurtlmak, trying to build another great hall to drop on the gods - or something like that. And besides, aren't even some of the Meepo-hatas truly yearning for some revengeance on the little bugger? Instead of turning the Sunless Citadel into kentucky fried kobold, why not get our hero once and for all? Meepo 05 - Because Kobolds Just Plain Are Cooler. |
| Enterik05-31-05, 11:13 AM | Sorry to pop your pimple but said half-dragon(amethyst) grants a line of force with no special properties, or fries for that matter. The are not force resistant they are immune to poison. Well, I did qualify my initial offering on this subject, and since you obviously don't accept the admittedly extrapolated premise that amethyst dragons abilities are psionic based, what else can I say? I can't say I've seen an official half-amethyst-dragon template. I just looked at other half-dragon templates to derive an analogous template. If it was a half-red-dragon, the magical breath weapon and resistance would be fire-based, thus it seemed reasonable that a psychokinetic dragon would confer a psychokinetic line of force and psionic force resistance. Perhaps, you have access to an official half-amethyst-dragon template that I have not seen, which is the only polite place I can figure you pulled the poison immunity :embarrass If so, I wonder why poison immunity is in the half-dragon template, if it is not an immunity had by the full-dragon parent? [c.f. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20010330a ] The lack of psionic class levels might though. As a druid/MoMF it is clear that they have no manifesting ability How does having druid class levels preclude having psionic class levels or manifesting ability? And to reiterate, in the end, I could care less if the half-dragon naga is psionic or not, it's still better than a sneaky C3PO :P |
| Enterik05-31-05, 12:14 PM | (big snip) Some people seem to be assuming that just because it's templated it's a munchkin thing that should never have existed in the first place and needs to be voted down immediately. I was just trying to make the point that templates can enhance the game. Sorry if I came off as just bashing you, I've been under a lot of stress lately and was in a bad mood yesterday. :D ...many people are burdened with them, can't shake loose, have difficulty remembering to evaluate each situation on it's own merits. I fall prey to such mental laziness myself. The trick is to catch yourself before it's too late. So this week, I won't vote on the Lich-Beholder match up until late Monday or early tuesday, so that I may have the full benefit of considered opinion. Initially, I was really down on the robo-ninja concept, but over time, I came to have more interest in the idea, as I was forced to think more about it and while I considered the few well reasoned opinions in the constructs defense. Still, I had already voted for the naga and truth be told, still would, but who knows what will happen next round? As for any bashing that occurs on this board, how can I take it personally or seriously? The context is so far removed from reality that I actually view my persona on these boards as a character :looloo: |
| skyler05-31-05, 01:08 PM | its tusday so why dont we know who won yet whats wrong |
| Wotc_Mark05-31-05, 01:13 PM | Creature Competition: Head-to-Head -- Week 4 Jannys Shadowgaunt vs Xxerlflyyn "Jannys Shadowgaunt" Female Drow Lich/Greater Iron Golem Finding this drow lich's lair in the Underdark is difficult enough without bringing in the phylactery that stores her life force: A greater iron golem, cast in the shape of a giant mechanical spider, lurks somewhere in the world above. "Xxerlflyyn" Beholder Swashbuckler Xxerlflyyn wears a patch over its lost central eye, and it is always seen with its zombie parrot companion. VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE NOW! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050510a) Due to the popularity of this thread and the fact that its reaching a seriously long length, starting on Week 5 we will be creating a second discussion thread for weeks 5 thru 8. Thanx MJ |
| Matjannan05-31-05, 01:21 PM | All the CDB has is frustrated low-level Dwarven and Gnomish clerics who made the mistake of casting Summon Monster I. Awww. Come on. Give the CDB (and the clerics) a break. In one of the first adventures I played in after 3.0 came out, our party was surrounded by brigands and most of our spells were used up. The cleric summoned a CDB, and it triple critted on one of the bandits we were really having problems with. (remember this is when a triple crit was an instant kill). It disappeared two rounds later, but it saved our butts and kept on going until the duration ran out. We were so impressed by this that when we eventually got a nice sailing ship, we called it the Sea Badger. That said, I'm going for Meepo in that round (though not in any other). As for predictions, let's look at the history so far: Big T vs. Jelly Cube Toughest combatant wins Templated Pixie vs. Cuisenart Toughest combatant wins Templated Naga vs. Ninja o'Doom Toughest combatant wins Summary: It seems that, for the majority of voters, the Favorite/Coolest monster is also the most optimized combatant. Going on that basis, here are my predictions. Predictions: Lich vs. Beholder: This one's tough. Both are likely very difficult combatants. However, without his anti-magic ray, the Beholder will fall to the Lich and her spells. Troll FB vs. Adv. Belkar SE: Again with the toughest combatant, I'd have to say the Troll FB will win. H-C Unicorn vs. Stone Giant Paladin: This one's a rough matchup, but I think both would sit down and talk over their differences rather than fight it out. The voters, on the other hand, will elect the Stone Giant Paladin. Succubus Paladin vs. Mind Flayer with psionics: In a straight combat, the mind flayer is liliest to win. However, I've been hearing a lot of positive stuff about the Succubus Paladin, so this may be the only match-up that favors the lesser combatant. CDB vs. Meepo: Meepo will win. Those are my predictions (not necessarily what I want to happen) for this first round series. |
| Airsucker05-31-05, 01:23 PM | It just went up. I'll say again that WotC is on the west coast. That's a few hours behind the civilized world. :tongue: I voted for Xxerlflyyn. He's just so much cuter that any old hag of a drow lich. Who wouldn't want their own zombie parrot? "I tell you this parrot is no more!" :rofl: He'll still be no match for Meepo! :tongue: |
| AcesAnd8s05-31-05, 01:33 PM | I'd have to say my vote goes to the lich. Besides, the beholder's name of "Xxerlflyyn" (pronounced something like "It's Errol Flynn") is just too corny for me to overlook. :D |
| Lazaro05-31-05, 01:51 PM | My vote goes to Xxerlflyyn. |
| KoboldSlayer05-31-05, 01:58 PM | I'd have to say my vote goes to the lich. Besides, the beholder's name of "Xxerlflyyn" (pronounced something like "It's Errol Flynn") is just too corny for me to overlook. :D This name is really clever! I didn't even try to pronounce it out loud, so didn't notice. :) I still voted for the lich. It seemed much more like a serious villain than the cutsie beholder pirate with an undead parrot. |
| ieattrollsforbreakfast05-31-05, 02:04 PM | My vote goes to Xxerlflyyn. Pirates, parrots, huge floating head with eye rays of doom...its got it all! |
| Ogre Daddy05-31-05, 02:13 PM | My vote goes to Xxerlflyyn also. while the Dragon's advice says that there should be a pirate vs. ninja, my real reason is my overwhelming distaste for drow. Good Drow, Evil Drow, bad drow, short drow, tall drow, fat drow, skinny drow, (Fill in the Blank) Drow. I don't care. They have all be done to death. To a fine horse paste. Please, by all that you hold holy, no more DROW!!! this ad was paid for by Meepo '05. Meepo did not approve of this message. |
| Mad Mage05-31-05, 03:01 PM | Me, I've voted for the Drow/Golem thing because it's likely that such a creature has damage reduction et al that will likely subdue any victory for ol' pirate beholder boy. |
| gastropod05-31-05, 03:02 PM | I am not sure for this one: Jannys Shadowgaunt is really two villains in one. You have the Lich and its tough phylactery to defeat (I had never thought of making the phylactery a construct before). I think this character could have a lot of role-playing potential for an adventure. Xxerlflyyn on the otherhand, I have always liked beholders so I would really like to chose this one. However without the central eye and its anti-magic ray, it seems severly crippled. The swashbuckler on this creature may be cool though for some high seas ship for aberrations. This is a tough decision. |
| Dalar Ragnos05-31-05, 03:35 PM | I cast my vote for Xxerlflyyn. Why? Just imagine a group of adventurers standing together and arguing whether or not the cave by the shore that they've come to explore is really a beholder's lair. Rogue: "I'm telling you, there's no beholder here." Fighter: "But the townspeople said-" Wizard: "Who cares what they said, the rogue says there's no beholder here." <Enter Xxerlflyyn, unnoticed by the party> Barbarian: "Come on Fighter, there's no stupid beholder here." Xxerlflyyn (deep voice): "Yarr, mateys." Parrot: "Squaaak! Yarr, mateys!" Party: "..." It's not just combat value that's worth voting for, otherwise the Tarrasque will win hands-down. The drow lich and greater iron golem would be a tougher fight than a beholder with no anti-magic cone, but hell... he's a beholder swashbuckler, which would be interesting to see worked into an adventure. |
| Dirge05-31-05, 03:38 PM | For the first time in this contest I'm torn. I'm not too fond of drow, but just the idea of a lich with its life force inside an independent golem sounds like a great hook for an adventure, or even an entire campaign. On the other hand, I'm a sucker for beholders and high-seas adventure. Hmm.... |
| Zevox05-31-05, 03:39 PM | My vote went to Jannys. What can I say, when it comes to villians, I'm a sucker for liches. Such beings just tend to be memorable, interesting, and wholely evil - at least inasfar as the ones I've had to deal with go. The idea of a phylacatory that fights back is pretty interesting as well. Plus this one reminds me of a very good book I read recently ;) . Plus, a beholder with Swasbuckler levels is just plain stretching things too far for me. I could even deal with the half-dragon pixie, but a half-blind beholder with an undead parrot and swashbuckler levels... no. Just...... no. Zevox |
| Singer00505-31-05, 03:52 PM | Everyone loves Beholders, including yours truely, but no central eye? Without the anti-magic cone from the central eye the Lich will blast that Beholder a new one. |
| Daijdjan05-31-05, 04:20 PM | Even when i love the idea of a beholder pirate (just seeing the faces of me group when he is introduced), the lich/golem gets my vote. Why? Because the idea with the walking phylacatory is cool, yes, cooler as the beholder pirate. I think i will use them both in the future :) |
| Akhenaten05-31-05, 04:59 PM | When I first saw the page, when voting was just the first pair, I knew... Jannys had to win. Okay, drow, sure. Yeah, and there's an illithid. But I love the lich/golem idea. I even put an idea on my site for a template like that about two years ago--with the lich's actual body being encased in the iron golem shell and some fancy gimmicking to allow spellcasting (as long as it wasn't target:self). I called it a "Lich Engine." And I see now that good ideas are repeated for a reason--it's something inherent in the nature of good ideas. Jannys must win! |
| Leonidus05-31-05, 04:59 PM | Remember, this ISN'T an Arena battle or anything, this isn't about who would beat who in combat. It's about which character is cooler/eviller/more interesting. Remember that. |
| sparticus_eleisum05-31-05, 05:01 PM | As suspected the: ROBO-NINJA WON! For this week, the Pirate Beholder... Let's admit it... everyone WANTS to see a the NINJA VS PIRATE thread! |
| Matjannan05-31-05, 05:11 PM | Remember, this ISN'T an Arena battle or anything, this isn't about who would beat who in combat. It's about which character is cooler/eviller/more interesting. Remember that. I do. It's just that history has shown that people think that things that kick ***** and destroy anything in their way are "cooler/eviller/more interesting" than things that don't. I wish that weren't the prevailing view, but it is. |
| DDogwood05-31-05, 05:30 PM | I thought a lich's phylactery can't be made part of another magic item (I think that might be in Libris Mortis, but I don't have my books here). The Beholder wins, hands-down, anyways. Maybe we will get a chance to solve that eternal question: Which is cooler, a Beholder Pirate or a Robot Ninja?!?!?! btw, Shadowgaunt -> Dark/skinny -> dark skin -> Drow? Ugh. |
| Manyfist05-31-05, 05:38 PM | Double Post. |
| Manyfist05-31-05, 05:39 PM | Xxerlflyyn all the way! What wouldn't give your players a shiver when a Swashbuckling Beholder says, "On Guard!" Jannys Shadowgaunt would be like... http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/ygk/waaa.bmp |
| Judicator Shekar05-31-05, 05:46 PM | I thought week 1 was a good competition, but weeks 2 and 3 were rather ridiculous. Now we see another good competition hit the boards, and what follows is a summation of my reasons for voting (and possibly those of other voters as well). Beholder: 1) It is no secret that the beholder is one of my favorite creatures in the DnD universe. I must, however, justify this by saying that one of my favorite things about beholders (next to the fun of roleplaying one, of course) is the Antimagic effect of the central eye. In fact, Lords of Madness has provided us with a variety of nifty ways to further manipulate that ability. As such, I generally dislike Beholder Mages, who do not utilize this ability. Well now, neither does this character, and it gets no other benefits from losing its coolest ability. Thats one down for the beholder. 2) A beholder swashbuckler? I think this shows a certain error in thinking, as you do not need to be a swashbuckler, or even a dread pirate, for that matter, to be a 'pirate'. The beholder could just as well be simply without its eyepatch and zombie parrot and have levels in either another class or just be advanced. It could still captain a ship and would still make a hell of an interesting encounter on the high seas. It is somewhat frustrating when people try to make things stereotypical for a 'coolness' factor (the same factor that I could not understand in last week's challenge --- I voted against the ninja). Lich: 1) Liches are wonderful additions to any campaign. Also, I think that having an iron golem as a phylactery is a wonderful idea, though smaller ones generally work better. The point about the Iron golem though, relates to the fact that this is a competition for an adventure. Think how interesting an adventure involving Janys would be. The party must first eliminate Janys, then find and destroy the Golem (they could get around this --- hehe), possibly having to face both at the same time in a classic finish. Moreover, there could be thousands of interesting complications thrown into the mix that could make the adventure terribly interesting. 2) The lich has a definate serious flavor that is lacking in the beholder's collumn. It almost seems as if the swashbulckler was stuck in specifically for the purpose of provoking shouts of, "whoa, pirates are cool" or "whoa, we must have a pirates vs. ninjas showdown". All I can say to that is, keep it under a hat, guys, the lich will win this week. Moreover, Janys is a serious character that is applicable to the games of any serious gamer out there. As you may have guessed, I definately voted for Janys. I hope you do the same, moreover, I hope that Janys wipes the floor with the Warforged Ninja in round 2. Oh yeah, on a final note, this is not a question of power. It is a question of preference. Sure, I'm sure some people will always go for the more powerful contestant, but we can be more mature than that on these boards. |
| Kraptor05-31-05, 05:48 PM | Lich all the way....!!! |
| Mercurius05-31-05, 06:19 PM | I voted for the Lich because, even though I hate Drow with a passion, I don't care for Beholders either. The goodness of the iron golem robo-spider phylactery was sweet enough that I just had to side with it. Plus... robo-ninja versus robo-spider. That's some sweet sweet beat-down, right there. :cool: Also, thanks for fixing the spelling error in my name in the vote page quote, whoever did so. :ayyyy!: |
| delroland05-31-05, 06:19 PM | I can't say I've seen an official half-amethyst-dragon template. It is in the Draconomicon. How does having druid class levels preclude having psionic class levels or manifesting ability? Druid levels don't preclude having psionic levels or manifesting ability; the lack of psionic class levels and manifesting ability precludes having psionic class levels or manifesting ability. :rolleyes: |
| delroland05-31-05, 06:23 PM | But why did it have to be a drow lich with a stupid spider-shaped golem? This screams unoriginality; again, if I wanted an adventure based on drow and the undead, I would play "City of the Spider Queen", a published adventure that is infinitely better than any one-off web adventure that WotC might produce. Plus I want to see how a beholder swings from a rope... :D |
| Manyfist05-31-05, 06:34 PM | Drow Liches... Un original, and it screams Forgotten Realms, Sorry all you Realm Junkies, The Realms been out for too long, and It has too many Cliches. Basically FR focuses on Drow, at first it was cool, yet now... its Boring as hell. Beholder SwashBuckler, very Original, who ever thought of that? |
| eye_sac05-31-05, 06:38 PM | Now, as cool as a beholder swashbuckler might seem, obviously this round goes to the drow lich. That's the greatest phylactary ever! It can fight for itself! |
| Davian05-31-05, 06:53 PM | A swashbuckling beholder... yeah, ok, I'll vote for that. |
| ursa2305-31-05, 06:56 PM | I cast my vote for Xxerlflyyn for two main reasons. I too feel that the Drow have been done to death. It would have been a much closer decision had it been a human, or maybe even something wierder (ogre mage?) Lich. That being said, the top reson is that I run a light-hearted, humorous campaign. A Lich with a phylactery that can defend itself is a great idea, but I would have a hard time getting my players seriously interested. A Beholder pirate is more fun, and doesn't need to be a serious adversary. Without the zombie parrot, though, my vote may have differed. It only leads me to ask when is WotC going to put The Bruces into an adventure :D |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-31-05, 07:18 PM | k, to start, i'm a w hore for drow, and liches, that made my choice really easy... |
| Azuaron05-31-05, 07:30 PM | its stupid to put the phaltatraphy in a golem it means that when their in her base they can kill her and her soul all at once if she were smart she would hide her soul in some incredible hard to find and reach place so if she dies she can come back to life putting it all in the same place is foolish you could have an iron golem guard the plantryph or have a golem guard her but an iron golem is vulnerable to rust monstere the phlatryph should be placed miles underground or in an extra dimmesinal space it should be nearly immposible ot get to it even if they know were it is puting a permanet non detection spell on it could stop them from even nowing were to begin to look so she would have to be a complete idiot to put it next to her its like shooting her self in the foot befor the fight even starts Didn't I already tell you to look at Mr. Period on Penny Arcade? What's the matter with you, learn the language you try to post in. English has things called sentences. Sentences are seperate pieces of ideas that form paragraphs. Sometimes (typically on boards) the paragraph is the whole idea, otherwise, its a story or essay or something of that sort made of multiple paragraphs. What you have neglected is the sentence. No sentence, no paragraph, no coherent idea. You are posting barely understandable garbage. I reiterate learn the language you post in. As suspected the: ROBO-NINJA WON! For this week, the Pirate Beholder... Let's admit it... everyone WANTS to see a the NINJA VS PIRATE thread! You seem to be misinformed. I'm actually greatly opposed to seeing this board decay into Ninja vs. Pirate, and (even though I actually like the beholder better) I will be voting for the lich this week, just to try and eliminate this possibility. One of my fears I have with this, however, is the board still could go into Ninja vs. Pirate as Pirate fans try to get people to vote against the Ninja because if the Lich is better than the Pirate, it automatically has to be better than the Ninja. See how this works Skylar? Pieces of ideas, coherently put together in sentences (complete with puncuation) that come together for one complete idea. That's the way the English language works. Care to learn what a 2nd-grader knows? |
| slumbermoose05-31-05, 08:06 PM | I voted for the lich - but then again every monster I've voted for has lost |
| Enterik05-31-05, 08:07 PM | Enterik: I can't say I've seen an official half-amethyst-dragon template. It is in the Draconomicon. Enterik: That explains my gap in knowledge, but not why things went from psionic force resistance to poison immunity. Druid levels don't preclude having psionic levels or manifesting ability; the lack of psionic class levels and manifesting ability precludes having psionic class levels or manifesting ability. :rolleyes: Enterik: Well, at least you cleared that up.:twitch: I'm ready to move on... |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god05-31-05, 08:13 PM | Originally Posted by skyler its stupid to put the phaltatraphy in a golem it means that when their in her base they can kill her and her soul all at once if she were smart she would hide her soul in some incredible hard to find and reach place so if she dies she can come back to life putting it all in the same place is foolish you could have an iron golem guard the plantryph or have a golem guard her but an iron golem is vulnerable to rust monstere the phlatryph should be placed miles underground or in an extra dimmesinal space it should be nearly immposible ot get to it even if they know were it is puting a permanet non detection spell on it could stop them from even nowing were to begin to look so she would have to be a complete idiot to put it next to her its like shooting her self in the foot befor the fight even starts Didn't I already tell you to look at Mr. Period on Penny Arcade? What's the matter with you, learn the language you try to post in. English has things called sentences. Sentences are seperate pieces of ideas that form paragraphs. Sometimes (typically on boards) the paragraph is the whole idea, otherwise, its a story or essay or something of that sort made of multiple paragraphs. What you have neglected is the sentence. No sentence, no paragraph, no coherent idea. You are posting barely understandable garbage. I reiterate learn the language you post in. Quote: Originally Posted by sparticus_eleisum As suspected the: ROBO-NINJA WON! For this week, the Pirate Beholder... Let's admit it... everyone WANTS to see a the NINJA VS PIRATE thread! You seem to be misinformed. I'm actually greatly opposed to seeing this board decay into Ninja vs. Pirate, and (even though I actually like the beholder better) I will be voting for the lich this week, just to try and eliminate this possibility. One of my fears I have with this, however, is the board still could go into Ninja vs. Pirate as Pirate fans try to get people to vote against the Ninja because if the Lich is better than the Pirate, it automatically has to be better than the Ninja. See how this works Skylar? Pieces of ideas, coherently put together in sentences (complete with puncuation) that come together for one complete idea. That's the way the English language works. Care to learn what a 2nd-grader knows? k, this is just the boards! we don't all have to be an english major! as long as the point got through that's all that matters! and it did just fine!!! i f'in hate it when stupid english ubsessed people like yourself throw a fit over everything! |
| Leonidus05-31-05, 08:45 PM | k, this is just the boards! we don't all have to be an english major! as long as the point got through that's all that matters! and it did just fine!!! i f'in hate it when stupid english ubsessed people like yourself throw a fit over everything! No, you don't have to be an english major. Just a graduate of the 3RD GRADE. By the way? The point actually DIDN'T get through, because it was impossible to read. |
| Enterik05-31-05, 09:06 PM | Beholder: 1) It is no secret that the beholder is one of my favorite creatures in the DnD universe. I must, however, justify this by saying that one of my favorite things about beholders (next to the fun of roleplaying one, of course) is the Antimagic effect of the central eye. In fact, Lords of Madness has provided us with a variety of nifty ways to further manipulate that ability. As such, I generally dislike Beholder Mages, who do not utilize this ability. Well now, neither does this character, and it gets no other benefits from losing its coolest ability. Thats one down for the beholder. For me, loss of the anti-magic eye, actually makes the beholder a more interesting option than if it were whole. The reason is that one seldom sees a beholder played as anything more than a floating anti-magic cone, and an Beholders are usually trotted out as angry egotistical deathstars with no depth of character and I think loss of the central eye will necessitate more character development and strategem. 2) A beholder swashbuckler? I think this shows a certain error in thinking, as you do not need to be a swashbuckler, or even a dread pirate, for that matter, to be a 'pirate'. Still, the improved agility would be of value to a handi-able beholder, since he can no longer rely upon his anti-magic cone for defense and since beholder armor is usually in short supply melee attacks are similarly thwarted. I agree one need not be a pirate to play the role, especially if one is as intelligent and powerful as a beholder. Having said this, time spent in such pursuits can reasonably lead to gaining such levels. The difficulty I see is in wielding the finesse weapon but only if ranged touch cannot be finessed...correction in proof: natural weapons, such as a beholders bite, are light weapons and thus capable of being finessed. The beholder could just as well be simply without its eyepatch and zombie parrot and have levels in either another class or just be advanced. Indeed, but the eye-patch, aside from the superficial cuteness, could require some meaningful creativity on the author's part. Obviously, in addition to having swashbuckling levels, this beholder must be at least a 9th level wizard to be able to cast animate dead familiar(sor/wiz5). The parrot adds a surprising dimension in that it serves as more than an alertness feat, since at minimum it touch is paralyzing for 1D6+2 minutes. The unwary party could be in for a big surprise... It could still captain a ship and would still make a hell of an interesting encounter on the high seas. It is somewhat frustrating when people try to make things stereotypical for a 'coolness' factor (the same factor that I could not understand in last week's challenge --- I voted against the ninja). The Beholder as presented certainly has the potential to become a tongue-in-cheek fiasco of cliches, but if they hold the pickles and cheese, it could be engaging...I don't know, it's risky, as is the drow-lich-golem, not in the campy way but in the modular hum-drum bad-guy kind of way. I'm still thinking this one through... |
| Storm Child05-31-05, 09:28 PM | Wow! Beholder Swashbuckler.......lol not as terrifying as a lich. Sorry there are just enough beholders in online adventures to begin with. I also don't have forgotten realms so I am open to using drow in an adventure. I also voted against the ninja mainly because I don't have the Ebberon Campaign Setting either. I also think a spell flinging lich is more of a danger to a magicless party like mine is. :) No one in my party wants to play a spellcaster, so antimagic cone has no affect to begin with, then even with levels of a melee class it is gonna face about 4 fighter-type characters and get whomped. |
| DeciusNero05-31-05, 10:20 PM | a phylactery that can defend itself is every lich's little fantasy...every enemy of said lich worst nightmare. |
| Crispy_Spellthief05-31-05, 10:39 PM | Well, this was a tough little choice.. weeks of deciding.. but ultimately I went for the beholder.. come on, he's wearing an eyepatch and he has his own zombie parrot. Zombie. Parrot. That cute factor gets it for me. .. though a phylactery that could kick your hiney is damn cool. |
| wyckedgrinn05-31-05, 11:19 PM | Wow, this has got to be the absolute stupidest thing I have ever seen. Drow Lich/Greater Iron Golem?? Beholder Swashbuckler!? Half-Amethyst Dragon/Iridescent Naga!!?? Succubus Paladin!!!??? Where do you people come up with this crap!? Way to ruin a once great RPG. http://www.geocities.com/wyckedgrinn/supergay.gif |
| delroland05-31-05, 11:29 PM | Care to learn what a 2nd-grader knows? No way, those 2nd-graders are jerks! :P Enterik: sorry, I misunderstood your argument and got it mixed up with another one that bugged the heck out of me... The reason that half-amethyst dragons are immune to poison is for one of two reasons. Either: A) Ametyhst dragons have poison as their draconic immunity. (I am not sure if this is true, but one could easily check the MMII for that info.) B) Immunity to psionic force is not on par balance-wise with the other immunities that the other half-dragons have, so they were arbitrarily given poison immunity to keep them on the same power level. I think it is (A), but I don't have my MMII handy (heck, it's not even in my county!), so I can't confirm this. |
| Bard-of-all-trades05-31-05, 11:40 PM | This tournament, especially the last winner, proves it. I cannot believe a lame race beat out an intriguing combination of templates. Especially as this race isn't even in any other game setting. This makes absolutely no sense at all. Evidently, it seems that Wizards has decided to follow television's trend of reality shows and do this ridiculous bracket so the R&D teams don't have to work. I sure miss the days of TSR. They would play test and edit things so they were polished. And they kept producing modules at a steady pace. They put out fine products that were fun to play from both sides of the screen. I cannot remember the last module that Wizards put out. All they seem to produce these days is sourcebooks. Has Dungeons and Dragons gotten lost in the bureaucracy of Hasbro that it is destined to die a slow, agonizing slide into obscurity? I hope not, but this tournament isn't a good sign. |
| MediocreSurgeon06-01-05, 12:25 AM | Evidently, it seems that Wizards has decided to follow television's trend of reality shows and do this ridiculous bracket so the R&D teams don't have to work. I sure miss the days of TSR. They would play test and edit things so they were polished. And they kept producing modules at a steady pace. They put out fine products that were fun to play from both sides of the screen. I cannot remember the last module that Wizards put out. All they seem to produce these days is sourcebooks. Has Dungeons and Dragons gotten lost in the bureaucracy of Hasbro that it is destined to die a slow, agonizing slide into obscurity? I hope not, but this tournament isn't a good sign. I agree with with you--about the modules. I think that this contest is more of a promotional thing, though. Chances are, it's been so long since a GOOD module has been released that the R&D team has become removed from the players. I think that this contest is a good way to connect the players of D&D with the R&D team. As for this week's contest... There should really be no question. Which one has a more unique sense of style? Which has not been thought of thousands of times before? Which one has a cool eyepatch? No, it's not the lich. Pirates are cool, and golems (and undead) are overused. Who cares about some lich with a golem? Big deal. There's no story behind it. Sure, the lich is probably tougher, but that's not what this contest is about--It's about coolness, and a strong sense of style. I know that not only would I prefer fighting a beholder with an eyepatch and a parrot, but I would prefer as a DM to roleplay it, too. Liches are overused. Golems are boring. Conversly, Beholders are friggen' sweet, and pirates even more so. Vote pirate today, BUT VOTE MEEPO '05!!!!!!!! |
| redchin_thunder06-01-05, 12:40 AM | Mostly for the roleplaying potential for a high seas eye tyrant. I mean imagine the first mate saying "Aye, Aye, Aye, Aye, Aye, Aye, Aye, Aye Captain." :cool: What I'm sick of in this whole Head to Head Competition is that the POWER PLAY is ruling it. That can be the only explanation for the dervish beating the pixie dragon. With posts like "The Dervish would surely win! I vote for her." PEOPLE ARE LOSING SIGHT OF SOMETHING HERE. What happened to roleplaying? It's easy to get lost in the marilith dervishes' slashing uber-death statistics. Yeah, it's fun, but just for one encounter. This competition: "Of course, in a pure fighting competition, you'd simply check each monster's Challenge Rating to decide which one would gain the upper hand. So instead, :) we've dragged sixteen creatures onstage for a friendlier competition -- to determine which one is our players' favorite creature ;) (at least, favorite in this competition)." What's worse, the WoTC web folk have picked some of the worst quotes that show the improper reasoning for choosing one creature over the other. You'd think they'd pick quotes to post on the H2H Competition page that support the purpose of the competition. I quote: "The Cube is just too Weak for the Tarrasque to be bothered with..." -- Manyfist "I voted for the Tarrasque mainly because there is only one for a good reason and because true power should always win." -- DarkDragonlord "Tarrasque, hands down. It's the baddest killing machine out there." --bookwurm "Ah, Marilith Dervish. 6 arms... 6 ways to kill... now how cool is that?" -- Davian "I voted for the Dervish... Only undead and warforged characters really have a chance to deal with the dervish..." -- darktemplar51 I'm glad that they've finally picked some quotes in the most recent competition that promotes depth to these competitors. Finally we're getting some more insightful commentary than just "Ninja, 'nuff said." The D&D game is ultimately, in finality, a role-playing game, and that means STORY! And PLOT. And colorful characters with complexity! Anything less than that is a disservice to the game's legacy. Preserve the Art of this game, before it dies another victim of roll-playing and power stat-crunching. DRT, playing the game since 1977. |
| Marshall Stone06-01-05, 12:43 AM | I voted for the lich - but then again every monster I've voted for has lost Don't sweat it none slumbermoose, I too voted for the Lich and so far all the monsters I've voted for have one! This time is you're on the side of the winners. Of course it's kind of a moot point since MEEPO THE MIGHTLY MAGNIFICANT will win out overall! |
| Kadasbrass06-01-05, 12:44 AM | What I'm sick of in this whole Head to Head Competition is that the POWER PLAY is ruling it. That can be the only explanation for the dervish beating the pixie dragon. With posts like "The Dervish would surely win! I vote for her." PEOPLE ARE LOSING SIGHT OF SOMETHING HERE. What happened to roleplaying? It's easy to get lost in the marilith dervishes' slashing uber-death statistics. Yeah, it's fun, but just for one encounter. There something funny about a whole pack of power gamers voting on something based on mere power of the creature...Sure we could go along the lines of 'digging their own grave'... Yea lets have an adventure with a creature that only epic level creatures can figth... |
| Kadasbrass06-01-05, 12:51 AM | Xxerlflyyn all the way! What wouldn't give your players a shiver when a Swashbuckling Beholder says, "On Guard!" Jannys Shadowgaunt would be like... http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/ygk/waaa.bmp How would a beholder pirate say "On Guard"? The only part of its body able to hold a sword is the mouth... It will try to say its line, drop its sword, and be defeated when the players invoke the DM/Beholder into their "how i'm going to destory you speech" every time it flops over to pick its sword back up. I'm really thinking this is a bad case of you are what you eat. |
| Archangel6206-01-05, 12:59 AM | I dunno, the idea of a zombie parrot sorta speaks to me. Plus I think the idea might be kinda cool, albiet a little awkward I'd love to know what made a beholder become a swashbuckler. |
| Sect06-01-05, 01:15 AM | There something funny about a whole pack of power gamers voting on something based on mere power of the creature...Sure we could go along the lines of 'digging their own grave'... Yea lets have an adventure with a creature that only epic level creatures can figth... So you'd rather have the kobold that has other kobolds go, "DAYUM, he weak!" with his "pet" white dragon instead of a, to pick a monster randomly out of a hat, celestial dire badger? ... Okay, so it is pretty funny. Back to the subject. I really don't mind Beholders, and I like pirates, but... what? This is just plain silly! And the undead parrot is just going too far. Well, unless one of the writers threw in a few Python references. |
| Epicfetus06-01-05, 02:37 AM | Preserve the Art of this game, before it dies another victim of roll-playing and power stat-crunching. It's been happening for a while. In fact, this competition is showing how bad the situation is. Then again, we all power game at some point...then we see how much more fun the game is when you don't. The Meepo support is giving me hope, though. There something funny about a whole pack of power gamers voting on something based on mere power of the creature...Sure we could go along the lines of 'digging their own grave'... Yea lets have an adventure with a creature that only epic level creatures can figth... Not really, makes perfect sense. What, you think the munchkins have characters lower than epic level? they want to raise the power bar, constantly....for bragging rights, I guess. Power Gamers are called that for a reason...it's about Power. Have none in own life, want it in game. Basically, most of them are Jr High/High School aged males who are mad that they can't f-, er, "woo" the cheerleader. Most grow out of it, and if they still game, all they need is one good DM and they're like "wow, that was so much more fun...." Some don't, and they stalk girls online and creep them out. It happens. Then again, pure-role-players can be just as bad. they have concepts that are ludicris to show off their "creativity", trying to out-style each other at every turn. Not sure what their general profile is (the only ones i've met thus far have been vampire players, and they were just preening goths). Basically, it's the duty of all the "Aristotelean" (middle-ground) gamers out there to show the rest of them what it's all about. most of them will thank us for it. The meepo support is showing that...even though i won't be voting for him round one (he already has an adventure), though i fear it will end up Meepo vs. Tarrasque, role vs roll if ever it has existed. |
| Orvar06-01-05, 03:00 AM | Xxerlflyyn, because pirates are just plain cooler. And because I wanted to see a ninja vs. pirate battle. |
| Setherial06-01-05, 03:06 AM | Aside from a story about a drow Lich being pretty cool stuff anything would have been better then a Beholder Swashbuckler with a patch over his eye. That is just ruining a game before you present it. So Jannys Shadowgaunt it is for me all the way PS: still can't believe you guys chose the ninja. I mean with all that metal he is going to be the noisiest ninja in history. |
| AMoonLitKnight06-01-05, 03:38 AM | I voted for Xxerlflyyn, If there is anyone who can stop the warforged ninja in the quarter finals its a beholder pirate. YARRR! |
| tronbarr06-01-05, 06:39 AM | Drow lich with its phylactery inside/as a big spider golem? Haven't I read that somewhere (and wished I hadn't)? |
| Raziel_Brokodar06-01-05, 07:13 AM | The vote this week is obvious, while the opposition is a beholder the obvious choice is a combination which is the best of everything... a Female, Drow, Lich, Iron Golem!!!! Was this one made to win?! :P |
| Falrion06-01-05, 07:38 AM | Enterik: I can't say I've seen an official half-amethyst-dragon template. It is in the Draconomicon. I was going through my draconomicon copy last night... couldn`t find anything about half-amethyst dragons.... :uh-huh: In fact, nothing about gem dragons really (except te CR table... :) ) Maybe you got a "special edition" or something... :noway: maybe you can tell us wich page the template is, ok? [/QUOTE=Eterik] Enterik: That explains my gap in knowledge, but not why things went from psionic force resistance to poison immunity.[/QUOTE] As it was said before, Force resistance is really not on par... since all other dragons give recistance to some element.... --------------------------------------------------------------------- On Other Subject... I´ve decided to cast my vote on the Beholder Swashbucler... My underdark-dwelling campaign is coming to an end... and in fact I want to have a few laughs about the story... And a beholder with an eye-patch, with a zombie parron on top of him, brandishing a rapier with his telekinesis eyestald... well.. It just made me laugh a lot last night... if I know my players (and I do... been playing since `94) They will laugh even louder than me.... :rofl: :rofl: |
| ieattrollsforbreakfast06-01-05, 07:48 AM | I was going through my draconomicon copy last night... couldn`t find anything about half-amethyst dragons.... :uh-huh: In fact, nothing about gem dragons really (except te CR table... :) ) Maybe you got a "special edition" or something... :noway: maybe you can tell us wich page the template is, ok? p166, under Half-Dragon |
| Qube06-01-05, 08:53 AM | i vote for the Lich/iron golem combo: such in-game powerplay can't be overlooked: it's really fitting for the power-hungry undead (no irony). I was looking for a character with the Lich template, now i know my phyliactery :) |
| Qube06-01-05, 09:10 AM | Wow, this has got to be the absolute stupidest thing I have ever seen. Where do you people come up with this crap!? Way to ruin a once great RPG. most likely they are figments of the imagination of the most perverted minds from the most sadistic creatures of the hole galaxy: DMs :evillaugh . my thoughts on the creatures can be 'described' as: :w00t: :dancin: :ayyyy!: :fight!: :bow: :clap: |
| TempestadiossA06-01-05, 09:19 AM | My vote goes for the female drow lich with the iron golem phylactery... there's something just so inherently evil about her that intrigues me ;) |
| CaptKoolAid1306-01-05, 09:34 AM | Wow, this has got to be the absolute stupidest thing I have ever seen. Drow Lich/Greater Iron Golem?? Beholder Swashbuckler!? Half-Amethyst Dragon/Iridescent Naga!!?? Succubus Paladin!!!??? Where do you people come up with this crap!? Way to ruin a once great RPG. http://www.geocities.com/wyckedgrinn/supergay.gif First of all this is just for fun. Second, it's not like anyone is going to twist your arm and force you to run/play the adventure that will eventually come from this. Lastly, if you don't like the direction the game is heading, play Second Edition. Meepo FTW!! |
| Hufish06-01-05, 10:24 AM | I had to vote for the eyepatch-wearin', Swashbucklin' beholder. I mean, come on! Drow are overdone. Liches are overdone. Golems are overdone. Drow with spiders are overdone. And the lich/greater iron golem just feels to oppressive to me. Then again, I was in a 3rd level party that got beat down by a calzone golem. Defeat never tasted so good. The beholder provides for more light-hearted yet still sinister villainy. The character has more flavor and more personality than what seems to me to be a cookie-cutter attempt to make an overwhelming opponent. Gimme the flavor, and you can keep the iron spidermaiden. :ayyyy!: |
| Factol Rhys06-01-05, 10:32 AM | Looking ahead, I have to point out an error in "Grynerstempos, Advanced Belkar Soul Eater" (sic). A "belker" is a creature that, in Planescape, hails from the paraelemental plane of Smoke, but in 3rd Edition is from the plane of Air. "Belkar," meanwhile, is a sadistic halfling ranger from Rich Burlew's The Order of the Stick (http://www.giantitp.com/ootsChars.html). |
| sparticus_eleisum06-01-05, 10:59 AM | Originally Posted by wyckedgrinn Wow, this has got to be the absolute stupidest thing I have ever seen. Drow Lich/Greater Iron Golem?? Beholder Swashbuckler!? Half-Amethyst Dragon/Iridescent Naga!!?? Succubus Paladin!!!??? Where do you people come up with this crap!? Way to ruin a once great RPG. I also remmember the good 'ol times when you choose: Wizard, fighter or rogue, Some races had a limit to level advancement, and even class restrictions... In ADD, a dark paladin(a paladin was always legal-good, always human) was a blasphemy(and I played one:)); now you can have a Succubus Paladin and not everybody complains. Does all this changes kill the game?, I do not know, but this last years I have seen so much more players than before. It is not the overstacked classes, or the weird templates and prestige classes, is the way the players go with the game... it is really cool to find that the leader of a troll band has barbarian levels, or that legendary paladin is half celestial, or in a undead heavy campaign get some levels as Holy Exorcist... But in X-S, this surely sucks, just like not every NPC have class levels(nor PrC), not every monster should be a collection or weird classes. In our campaign only the quest monsters or really important NPC have PrC(or even Class levels for monsters), also to get a feat, level in a PrC or even multiclass the PC should role that part, "how your PC learned that?"; so powergaming is discouraged. Everybody gets treasure, weapons, the monsters are simple yet well used by the DM, the campaign is somewhat complex yet challenging, so everybody is happy.:D And Remmember kids, a vote for a kobold is a vote for the hope... If Meepo could, why the hell I do not? |
| Wyrd Bearer06-01-05, 11:18 AM | On this week's competition, my vote is for the beholder pirate. Not because it is a pirate, but because it is a beholder. A beholder, when used correctly, can easily have a TPK, and a lone drow (hah, punny) wizard couldn't handle the beholder, even though it is lacking without its antimagic cone ability, which does level the playing field a bit. |
| Grand Theft Otto06-01-05, 11:46 AM | Beholder Swashbucker all the way! Telekinetic swordplay! Zombie parrot! His name is even a pun on Errol Flynn! Liches are a dime a dozen. Wow, a lich with a unique phylactery? Zzzz... Frankly, I cant remember the last time I encountered a lich that DIDNT have some sort of schtick with its phylactery. Intelligent sword, golem, blah blah. What Int 10 liches have you guys been fighting that leave the thing on a silk pillow in a glass case? The sad thing is, the succubus paladin is going to win. Sure, its trite, the succubus with a soul. Havent seen that in a dozen books or video games. but the 12 year old inside every gamer demands boobs. :rolleyes: The only possible competition would be a bisexual female drow thief. |
| Enterik06-01-05, 12:01 PM | I was going through my draconomicon copy last night... couldn`t find anything about half-amethyst dragons.... :uh-huh: In fact, nothing about gem dragons really (except te CR table... :) ) Maybe you got a "special edition" or something... :noway: maybe you can tell us wich page the template is, ok? As it was said before, Force resistance is really not on par... since all other dragons give recistance to some element.... Personally, I would prefer internal consistancy over pointless attempts to derive balance among dragon species. So what if it's a weaker dragon, except under special circumstances. When's the last time you tried to poison a dragon anyways? On Other Subject... I´ve decided to cast my vote on the Beholder Swashbucler... My underdark-dwelling campaign is coming to an end... and in fact I want to have a few laughs about the story... And a beholder with an eye-patch, with a zombie parron on top of him, brandishing a rapier with his telekinesis eyestald... well.. It just made me laugh a lot last night... if I know my players (and I do... been playing since `94) They will laugh even louder than me.... :rofl: :rofl: Personally, I wouldn't want an NPC quite that campy. I envision something a little more serious, yet I still find myself favoring the :behold: for the specific challenges and opportunities it presents. |
| Enterik06-01-05, 12:50 PM | i vote for the Lich/iron golem combo: such in-game powerplay can't be overlooked: it's really fitting for the power-hungry undead (no irony). I was looking for a character with the Lich template, now i know my phyliactery :) ...because it attracts attention to the phylactery. Sooner or later, a surface walking iron golem will run afoul of powerful forces that will seek to dismantle it. The lich will never have a moments peace knowing that it's essence could be dispersed at any time. What kind of security is that? Golem? yes. Roam the surface? No. It's a silly risk to avoid underdark subterfuge. Better to hide the golem well and give it escape routes to the surface if needed. Sure the golem can fight back, because it will have to if it's on the surface. I suspect any adventure will have the party attempt to destroy the golem, which brings the lich into their presence to do battle while the phylactery golem escapes. Once the lich is defeated the party must hunt down the phylactery before the lich remanifests. An adventure that ends in a showdown with the Lich-Golem duo would merely a high CR encounter with a twist of lime. Can anyone else think of a better scenario for the Lich competitor? |
| fish_heads06-01-05, 12:55 PM | The sad thing is, the succubus paladin is going to win. Sure, its trite, the succubus with a soul. Havent seen that in a dozen books or video games. but the 12 year old inside every gamer demands boobs. :rolleyes: The only possible competition would be a bisexual female drow thief. Otto, I'd like to give you a high five for making the greatest observation of all time. |
| Airsucker06-01-05, 01:12 PM | I got quoted! :dancin: :w00t: I sould have gotten the Errol Flynn thing earlier. :pile: |
| vutha_vaecaesin06-01-05, 01:40 PM | at least now it seems we are voting for favourite, not statistically best. Although another point I think is being missed. The crazy templates , classes, and variations are to make the monsters unique. Anyone can make an adventure around a beholder or lich, it takes a bit more skill to cater to the needs of such a specific creature. |
| Wotc_Mark06-01-05, 02:33 PM | The crazy templates , classes, and variations are to make the monsters unique. Anyone can make an adventure around a beholder or lich, it takes a bit more skill to cater to the needs of such a specific creature.When we decided to try out one of these head-to-head brackets we did in fact want to offer up some odd and familiar creatures. Many people inside wizards offered up their favorites and we worked them into the bracket in a way that we thought would best entertain you. What we learn from this bracket will be put to use in determining future head-to-head brackets. We already have a good idea of what the next 3 will be. You can look forward to Good vs Bad, D&D Minis, and Dragons Dragons Dragons!. And if their is a dream matchup in this bracket you would like to see let us know... Perhapse if the Warforged Ninja and the Beholder Swashbuckler both end up loosing we could do a Pirates vs Ninja battle as a special poll in a coming week... Or maybee Meepo vs the Cube ... mwehehe heh eh <evil laugh> ... Go Badger!!! MJ :cool: |
| Matjannan06-01-05, 02:40 PM | When we decided to try out one of these head-to-head brackets we did in fact want to offer up some odd and familiar creatures. Many people inside wizards offered up their favorites and we worked them into the bracket in a way that we thought would best entertain you. What we learn from this bracket will be put to use in determining future head-to-head brackets. We already have a good idea of what the next 3 will be. You can look forward to Good vs Bad, D&D Minis, and Dragons Dragons Dragons!. And if their is a dream matchup in this bracket you would like to see let us know... Perhapse if the Warforged Ninja and the Beholder Swashbuckler both end up loosing we could do a Pirates vs Ninja battle as a special poll in a coming week... Or maybee Meepo vs the Cube ... mwehehe heh eh <evil laugh> ... Go Badger!!! MJ :cool: :w00t: :dancin: :cheer: :bow: :bow: :bounce: |
| FrozenGodPuppet06-01-05, 02:44 PM | Someone up there already pointed it. I shall reinforce. A lich would only put its own philactery in a golem at the surface if it liked being on the verge of destructuion... A spidery golem roaming the surface will inexorably drive a bunch of adventurers to itself. (and unless the lich used some kind of summoning magic to bring itself along the golem when this were threatened, the golem would eventualy become furniture - and even yet, isn't better not to face adventurers at all?) Maybe the lich had a heavy conscience when it transformed, or maybe it just like the adrenaline (a magical one, I suppose), or it indeed wants to kill every single adventurer that faces the golem, or even yet, it thought only about its underdark enemies and thus sent the golem to the surface. What can't be denied is: this lich will find doom. Sooner or later. Had it sent the golem to the moon (or better yet, just a tiny philactery to the moon - granted its not selûne, as it is inhabited by conscious beings), or to another planet, or even to another planet in another plane, it would surely last long joyful years. Oh yes, the beholder. As much as it is a frankenstein of nonsense (alongside many others on this contest), it at least poses itself as a decent threat to the party. Well, it is a swashbuckler, yes, but many things in its life could have lend it to that point (unlike the lich, that made a conscious choice with the golem matter), it has the parrot too, but at least its life doesn't depends on the dead bird. I wouldn't vote for anyone of those. And as much as I want the Tarrasque to be the winner (come on, an official adventure featuring the tarrasque?), even thinking that the lich is a weaker competitor by its sheer dumbness, I can't cooperate with its campaign. I voted beholder. Oh please, even if you don't want the tarrasque winning, at least vote for something classic (not the best place but, they do zilions of articles to eberron, and just a few for old good faerûn) and something not excentric (let's say, things with way too unlikely class levels, or with terrible flaws in its plans), better yet, vote for something that had not debuted on a new rules adventure yet (go tarrasque, go!). Nothing more to add... For now. |
| delroland06-01-05, 02:57 PM | The only part of its body able to hold a sword is the mouth... This has already been addressed; he can use his telekinesis power to wield his rapier. |
| Eldon Thorngage06-01-05, 03:07 PM | I personally voted for the Lich cause I like the description and wouldn't minds seeing it fleshed out a bit. As for some of the later ones. I say the Advanced belker, cause I hate the amount of damage caused by a beefed troll. And I have also never fought a belker. Next is the unicorn vs the Stone Giant. Now I have seen some good redeemed characters and I have played some fallen ones, so I know that anything can be possible when it comes to the wierd combo's which is why I actually say yes to both the Giant Paladin and the Sucubus Paladin. I have used the book of exalted many times and know that you can have some interesting redeemed characters. I actually built a redeemd Yuan Ti Pure blood once. And he was an enjoyable character at times. But to finish this off right. GO BADGER! |
| skyler06-01-05, 03:28 PM | the beholder could have the magic item arms of the naga i belive its called from savage species wich gives you arms or the rapier could be a dancing rapier. just a thought |
| Enterik06-01-05, 03:45 PM | This has already been addressed; he can use his telekinesis power to wield his rapier. IS the concept to make a Beholder conform to the 1940's movie genre or to tweak the pirate theme to be suitable for a Beholder? I tend towards the latter, where the whole Errol Flynn angle is an initial concept. Sure the rapier is a staple of pirate movies but it doesn't have to go any further than that. Even if you wanted to do so, just give the beholder a dancing rapier and leave his telekinetic eye for hurling larger objects, like anchors and booms and such. I think it is more plausible to have the finessed weapon be the Beholder's natural bite attack. Of course, the average Beholder has a 10 dexterity, but I figure a swashbuckling one probably has some dexterity bonus to apply. However, with the Insightful Strike[Ex] Class Feature a finessed hit from an average Beholder would gain +3 damage from the intelligence modifier, probably more since XXerrlflyyn is also a spellcaster of at least 9th level (Animate Dead Familiar) and he probably would have taken at least one of his two stat increases in Intelligence, if he were really that smart to begin with :twocents: |
| lordadam906-01-05, 04:12 PM | :embarrass :embarrass :embarrass :embarrass sorry about those posts earlier I don't know what went over me when I wrot those posts. ( Kicking himself) ahhhhh that's better. Oh Yeah I voted The Lich/Golem! |
| glitch_wraith06-01-05, 04:43 PM | I voted for the Lich/Golem. Granted, I think the beholder would be a hilarious character to meet in an adventure, however, that was not the question. The question was who would win in a fight. The Lich/Golem combination is simply evil. I mean, a lich smart enough to fashion her phylactory out of one the strongest golems in the Monster Manual should be feared. On the other hand, the swashbuckling beholder, while funny, is just a flawed concept. I mean, the class doesn't realy add to any of the beholders abilities, and the loss of of its central eye just hurts it all the more. Yes, it could use telepathy to weild a rapier, or even use one of the mouth weapons introduced in Lords of Maddness, but why would you focus on weilding a sword when you have a disentigration ray? Also, since beholders float around everywhere, the swash bucklers movement abilites pretty much go to waist. As for the undead parrot, that seems more of a liability than an advantage, especialy in this fight. I mean, odds are this lich is either a Necroamncer or and Evil cleric, and if that is so, she could easily take control of the parrot and peck out some of the beholders eyes while its distracted. Not to mention that pirates are only a real threat out at sea, and I'm sure a lich as diabolical as this one would make sure the fight takes place far from any body of water, preferably somewhere in the underdark. Now, if this where a ghost pirate, or a beholder that still had its central eye, then I would reconsider. |
| yrogerg06-01-05, 04:51 PM | ::Looks at second tier:: Ninja vs. Pirate... Beholder gets my vote. |
| delroland06-01-05, 04:57 PM | IS the concept to make a Beholder conform to the 1940's movie genre or to tweak the pirate theme to be suitable for a Beholder? I tend towards the latter, where the whole Errol Flynn angle is an initial concept. Sure the rapier is a staple of pirate movies but it doesn't have to go any further than that. Even if you wanted to do so, just give the beholder a dancing rapier and leave his telekinetic eye for hurling larger objects, like anchors and booms and such. I think it is more plausible to have the finessed weapon be the Beholder's natural bite attack. Of course, the average Beholder has a 10 dexterity, but I figure a swashbuckling one probably has some dexterity bonus to apply. However, with the Insightful Strike[Ex] Class Feature a finessed hit from an average Beholder would gain +3 damage from the intelligence modifier, probably more since XXerrlflyyn is also a spellcaster of at least 9th level (Animate Dead Familiar) and he probably would have taken at least one of his two stat increases in Intelligence, if he were really that smart to begin with :twocents: Actually, a beholder has a base dexterity of 14. Also, he could have used an oil of animate dead (divine) instead of having caster levels. The main advantage of using a rapier with telekinesis is that the rapier can be enchanted. Also, it would be a large rapier, so the base damage would be close to bite damage (1d8 rapier vs 2d4 bite), and the threat range would be triple (or sextuple, if it were keen). So IMO it is actually preferrable for the beholder to wield a rapier as opposed to relying on his bite. Plus his name is a play on Errol Flynn, and he wouldn't be a very good Errol Flynn if he didn't demonstrate at least a little swordplay. And if he does use TK for the rapier, he uses his Charisma instead of his Dexterity for attack rolls, so by putting his stat bumps in Charisma, he gains better attacks with TK as well as higher DC's for his eyestalks. Base stats str 10 dex 14 con 18 int 17 wis 15 chr 15, elite array gives +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and -2. That means that with one stat bump each to int and cha, we can have int 22 cha 20. This is the best build IMO for this character. Heck, we could dump the -2 into str with this build, as strength mods are not applied to TK weapon attacks. That way, we can raise both dex and con by 2 each so as to increase AC and hp. |
| Enterik06-01-05, 05:01 PM | I voted for the Lich/Golem. Granted, I think the beholder would be a hilarious character to meet in an adventure, however, that was not the question. The question was who would win in a fight. No, go back and read the explanation a little slower. I will quote it for you... Of course, in a pure fighting competition, you'd simply check each monster's Challenge Rating to decide which one would gain the upper hand. So instead, we've dragged sixteen creatures onstage for a friendlier competition -- to determine which one is our players' favorite creature (at least, favorite in this competition). |
| cheesyfishmaster06-01-05, 05:36 PM | How could I not vote for something named Xxerlflyyn? |
| glitch_wraith06-01-05, 05:43 PM | No, go back and read the explanation a little slower. I will quote it for you... *scratches his head* Hmm, would you look at that. Well, I guess the beholder isn't the only one with eye problems. Still, I would have voted the same. The idea of a construct phylactory (is that spelled right? On second thought, don't answer that) is just a realy cool idea, where as a swashbuckling beholder is just realy goofy. On another subject, now that I think about it, a good chunk of the monsters in the compition have been advanced in hit dice or given charater levels. Since they just give a breif discription of each one, we don't know by how much they have been improved, and thus we don't have the CR tp compare. I mean, for all we know, little Meepo could be a 70th lvl character and could easliy take out the Tarrasqe. Well, unless you acualy look up his stats in the old adventure he was in, but I'm sure he has had time to gain experience since then. |
| Aneul06-01-05, 05:51 PM | Beholder Pirate? Awesome! What can one say about such a creature but "eye, eye, Captain!" Anyway, how much more cliche can one get then a drow lich with a spider shaped phylactery that wanders around at its master's behest? Next they'll be asking us to vote for a twin scimatar weilding outcast. |
| BenjCano06-01-05, 06:21 PM | I have to say Drow/Lich with Golem. Really. . .she'd bounce that eyeball around the Underdark like it was a ping-pong ball. |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god06-01-05, 07:31 PM | No, you don't have to be an english major. Just a graduate of the 3RD GRADE. By the way? The point actually DIDN'T get through, because it was impossible to read. i don't know what your problem is, it was just as easy as any other post on hear to read! it's still words! just no stupid punctuation!!!!!!! AND HOW WAS IT IMPOSSIBLE TO READ!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! |
| Ultrazen06-01-05, 07:41 PM | Beholders are cool and pirates are cool, but an eyepatch-wearing beholder pirate with a dead bird on its eyestalk(?) registers higher on my cheese meter than cool meter. Liches are cool and a spider-shaped iron golem could be cool, but drow are getting just a little old now. Also, keeping your phylactery in a golem lurking in the world above is just like walking in front of an epic level radiant servant and blowing a raspberry. Bad idea. Tough call. I'll go with the lich/golem. With a bit of tweaking it has potential and a slightly lower cheese content. |
| Archangel6206-01-05, 08:47 PM | The other reason why I didn't vote Golem is that after seeing it done in War of the Spider Queen it seems...I dunno overdone. That and Drow are the current big thing but taht doesn't necessarily make them cool. That and I still like the idea of a zombie parror with a Beholder, something about it seems irresistably funny to me. |
| Aurotuli06-01-05, 11:18 PM | I chose Jenny - mostly because I want to see the Warforged fight it out with her (or rather, its) iron golen phylactery. Sigh. I'm sad the naga didn't make it (in which case I might have chosen the rediculous swashbuckling Beholder with its zombie parrot). |
| Azuaron06-01-05, 11:26 PM | No, you don't have to be an english major. Just a graduate of the 3RD GRADE. By the way? The point actually DIDN'T get through, because it was impossible to read. k, this is just the boards! we don't all have to be an english major! as long as the point got through that's all that matters! and it did just fine!!! i f'in hate it when stupid english ubsessed people like yourself throw a fit over everything! Thanks for the support. And it's not that I'm ubsessed with English (actually I read bad English just as good as normal English, and on another board I've been dubbed the "Patron Saint of Bad Spelling"). I was just calling attention to some fool without a grade school education, and directing people to a website with a corresponding (and funny) cartoon on the subject. Come on, if you don't know how to use a PERIOD, you don't deserve to post. If all else fails, consult Penny Arcade! (although PvP and VGCats are also good, "Do you think Sims feel pain?" "You're a monster!") Actually, the only English related thing I get angry over is my brother says brang, as opposed to brought. It's got to the point, I think he does it just to tick me off. But I digress. I don't even know why I feel I have to explain anything to you. So, back to this week's competition. I am currently hoping that the Lich/Golem combo wins it, then dies miserably in the next round. I don't particularly like drow, and the beholder is (admittably) a much better creature. However, with the winning of the Ninja last week, there is nothing that would make me hate this board in (quick count) 6 weeks than to have to endure more arguments of Ninjas vs. Pirates. I'm not rabidly obsessed with either side (I'm hardly even interested in either side), and as far as I'm concerned, nothing would be worse for this board than to see it degenerate into Pirate vs. Ninja instead of Beholder Swashbuckler vs. Warforged Ninja. |
| sfedi06-02-05, 12:12 AM | nothing would be worse for this board than to see it degenerate into Pirate vs. Ninja instead of Beholder Swashbuckler vs. Warforged Ninja. BUT THAT'S THE MAIN POINT OF THIS!!! Vote for the Beholder Sqashbuckler! AND VOTE FOR MEEPO! |
| Red_Decker06-02-05, 02:06 AM | You are a sick, sick man, Red_Decker :P :D Quit argueing over who we can talk about and who we can't. The whole point of this Creature Competition is fun. That's it, fun. Who cares if with game stats The Tarrasque would flatten all who oppose him. Or if the Dervish can slice, dice, and puree. The point is to have fun support who you want to win and when he/she isn't up support you next in line favorites just incase. Three weeks running I've voted correctly on who will win. But I know there are some spiteful people on here so I will refrain from telling until the winner is declared. If the worst should happen and I loose... oh wait I already said. Nevermind I voted for undead drow goodness. Down with our aberration opressors. [They make great favored enemies :D] http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/lady1raven/meepo/Meepo_02.gif |
| Scaly One06-02-05, 02:21 AM | Thisss weak me also agreesss with missstresss about the many-eyes thing and concluded that the zombie bird is cute eno... *sounds of fight, spellcasting and reptilian screams followed by the Scaly One crashing on the ground bounded and muffled* Okay, u don't kno-Me, an' that's betta 4 thou! Tha only thing that matters is: I've meet Jennis when sh'was still alive... Tha'gal have guts, believe-Me, sh'would be a gud mathrone if that hags wheren't tha hags they're. I was wondering why on Elysium Jannis isn't here, an' now tha fohked tongue here done some thing 4 Me, heheh, an' I delight to see that she did well My ol' prototype homenage to Lolth, an' put her life into! If som' o' thou see her, say that her ol' teatch'r sent a stab on her back, an' thou shall live longa. *siting over the bounded petitioner just to see his relative's toy dance flamenco over the wanna-be Captain Blood* |
| Sprain Ogre06-02-05, 02:55 AM | Again, a week where I'm having a tough time choosing, but this time it's because I think they're both so cool! Let's look at the numbers. Jannys Shadowgaunt is high enough level to create an Iron Golem, is a drow, and a lich. SR, high level spells, and a pack of abilities, plus, if she has one construct, she probably has others. That means say “by-by” to your sneak attacks and crits for the better part of THAT adventure. In the other corner, we have Xxerlflyyn, a swashbuckler beholder who has lost his central eye. He's at a big disadvantage here, no central eye to keep Jannys's spell casting under control and most of the cool abilities just don't work that well with him. Insightful strike is mostly useless for him as very few, if any, of his eye rays benefit from it, and graceful charge, well he floats. He still does have his disintegration ray going for him, so he's not totally out of luck. The zombie parrot, well he can keep it up and running with his inflict moderate wounds ray I guess. But as we should all know by now, this isn't about the numbers. Jannys Shadowgaunt, drow spell slinger who's gone undead. And :censored: did she think ahead!! So not only do you have to defeat her, no small obstacle I'd wager, but then you have to find the Iron Golem that houses her phylactery and take that down, before she reforms and come to get you! Now there's something you just don't prepare for, a mobile phylactery that's going to be actively avoiding you long enough for its master to reform. And good luck scrying for it, ‘cause it's immune! This has all the elements of a hair rising, race against the clock with failure meaning one peeved off Lich who wants her stuff back! If only my players were high enough level... Then we have good 'ol Xxerlflyyn. Sure, he doesn't have his central eye. Sure, his best buddy is a parrot that probably can’t parrot anymore, but does he have style or what? This is a beholder with one memorable and interesting back story that you can probably get out of him by buying a few rounds at the local pub (as long as they are monster tolerant, so like a Sigil pub or something). I'm trying to picture him using the knife in the sail trick, or swinging from ship to ship on a rope, or challenging the party’s paladin to a duel of honor! Then laughing boisterously afterwards, just to rub it in. While Xxerl here won't work for all campaigns, for those that could tolerate such a unique, well, character, it would be well worth it. So I guess this week boils down to major villain, or comedic opponent. Wow. Since I can imagine writing and running my own adventure for Jannys Shadowgaunt that would be a nasty challenge and run well, I want to see what Wizards would do with something like Xxerlflyyn. My vote: Xxerlflyyn (but man was it close) :ayyyy!: |
| Gilganarz_the_reporter06-02-05, 05:17 AM | well let's see: a beholder swashbuckler, with a zombie parrot. Funny, cool, original and deadly, the Dm's dream. the drow lich?: Like a badly cooked carrot cake. Boring and overdone. My vote:XXerflynn |
| vutha_vaecaesin06-02-05, 07:16 AM | When we decided to try out one of these head-to-head brackets we did in fact want to offer up some odd and familiar creatures. Many people inside wizards offered up their favorites and we worked them into the bracket in a way that we thought would best entertain you. What we learn from this bracket will be put to use in determining future head-to-head brackets. We already have a good idea of what the next 3 will be. You can look forward to Good vs Bad, D&D Minis, and Dragons Dragons Dragons!. And if their is a dream matchup in this bracket you would like to see let us know... Perhapse if the Warforged Ninja and the Beholder Swashbuckler both end up loosing we could do a Pirates vs Ninja battle as a special poll in a coming week... Or maybee Meepo vs the Cube ... mwehehe heh eh <evil laugh> ... Go Badger!!! MJ :cool: WOOT! Pirates vs. Ninjas! Now that would be awesome. |
| Gez06-02-05, 10:23 AM | Beholder. Please, anything but drow; their year is over. |
| Matjannan06-02-05, 10:42 AM | Actually, the only English related thing I get angry over is my brother says brang, as opposed to brought. It's got to the point, I think he does it just to tick me off. :rofl: Where's an smiley with an iron when you need one? |
| Diefreak06-02-05, 11:23 AM | The beholder wins for all reasons whether it's about who would win in a fight or who's cooloer....To know which is cooler you need to understand them and beholder is awsome magical and he will win a fight even with out his central eye as each eye does alot of diffrent magic farthermore a beholder can do like every spell possable and and who's coolor a peice of metal or and alien creature that's a pirate that can mess with reality? i Vote for Beholder Sqashbuckler! ( beholder will beat war ninja's butt ) ninja's suck and beholders rule Vote for Beholder Sqashbuckler! |
| Grand Theft Otto06-02-05, 11:31 AM | The question was who would win in a fight. No it wasnt. Cant you guys read? |
| vutha_vaecaesin06-02-05, 12:56 PM | What's the issue folks have with Drow these days? As my name suggests I take it a bit personal. Just curious. |
| _plucky06-02-05, 01:20 PM | I think I was a bit disappointed when the Gelatinous Cube lost, but I suppose that Meepo gives hope still. Kobolds are the deadliest creatures in any game (I should know, I’ve played them in LARPs… mmm…. Fledgling Vampire Kobold Ninja….. Mwahahaha!) Now I have to go find out more about Meepo, I’ve never read “The Sunless Citadel.” -plucky |
| Limit06-02-05, 01:26 PM | I think that this is one of those times where everyone will need to agree to disagree so that we can stop any posts that are meant to insult another person. No two of us will have the same exact criteria for picking a creature, because "favorite" is an opinion and hundreds of different things form a person's opinion. There are people here who think the winning monster should be the cutest, or the most powerful, or the most original idea, or the most true to the original concept of D&D, or the least templated, or the most realistic, or even the purple-est. In the end, people will come together and vote for their favorite, and the winner will be the favorite of the majority. The first week, where there was a clear difference in CR, the margin of victory was the slimest. This gives me an indication that the majority of people here have realized that they don't need to vote for the "most likely to win a fair fight" (unless, ofcourse, their favorite is determined by that criteria). In any case, I'd just ask the community as a whole to keep this conversation civil. Insulting people who vote differently then you in a contest of pure "opinion" will not accomplish anything other then hurting people for what should be a friendly competition. Those insulted might be driven away and stop voting, thus skewing the results so that they would no longer represent the community, but instead just the opinion of the vocal minority. My vote: This week I voted for Jannys simply because right now I'm in the middle of a drow based campaign. Its the first time I've played drow characters and I've become quite interested with online adventures and information regarding them. We've recently run the "Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?" online adventure and I'm looking forward to more. Next Week: It looks like "Grynerstempos" has already appeared in an online adventure, so why not give the troll frenzied berserker a chance? I think it would be comical to see how a gang of trolls handles one of their own not stopping after all the enemies have been slain. I'm looking forward to week 12: "Succubus Paladin vs. Meepo" :schemes: |
| Enterik06-02-05, 01:35 PM | Actually, a beholder has a base dexterity of 14. Also, he could have used an oil of animate dead (divine) instead of having caster levels. The main advantage of using a rapier with telekinesis is that the rapier can be enchanted. Also, it would be a large rapier, so the base damage would be close to bite damage (1d8 rapier vs 2d4 bite), and the threat range would be triple (or sextuple, if it were keen). So IMO it is actually preferrable for the beholder to wield a rapier as opposed to relying on his bite. Plus his name is a play on Errol Flynn, and he wouldn't be a very good Errol Flynn if he didn't demonstrate at least a little swordplay. And if he does use TK for the rapier, he uses his Charisma instead of his Dexterity for attack rolls, so by putting his stat bumps in Charisma, he gains better attacks with TK as well as higher DC's for his eyestalks. Thanks for the reasoned response and while I'm on board with most of what you present, I still don't think the spell-like telekinesis ability allows sufficient control to wield a melee weapon effectively, especially if ones concentration is divided. I looked up the 4th level telekinesis spell, and the combat version really only allows rather gross manuevers with the force itself, things like bull rush, trip, sunder, grapple, etc. Base stats str 10 dex 14 con 18 int 17 wis 15 chr 15, elite array gives +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and -2. That means that with one stat bump each to int and cha, we can have int 22 cha 20. This is the best build IMO for this character. Heck, we could dump the -2 into str with this build, as strength mods are not applied to TK weapon attacks. That way, we can raise both dex and con by 2 each so as to increase AC and hp. Given your exposition above, it's clear that the Beholder provides both roleplaying and powergaming opportunities for PCs and DMs of all ilk, what will actually evolve in an online adventure we may never know :tantrum: |
| Enterik06-02-05, 01:45 PM | *scratches his head* Hmm, would you look at that. Well, I guess the beholder isn't the only one with eye problems. Still, I would have voted the same. The idea of a construct phylactory (is that spelled right? On second thought, don't answer that) is just a realy cool idea, where as a swashbuckling beholder is just realy goofy. You are entitle to your opinion. Personally, I think the Lich/Golem combo has a superficial coolness factor stemming from a surprised, "Why didn't I think if that?!" I'm still thinking through possible adventures, but the concept seems situationally limited. The Beholder scenario has it's limitations as well, but not as severe as the Lich and with more role playing depth. On another subject, now that I think about it, a good chunk of the monsters in the compition have been advanced in hit dice or given charater levels. Since they just give a breif discription of each one, we don't know by how much they have been improved, and thus we don't have the CR tp compare. I mean, for all we know, little Meepo could be a 70th lvl character and could easliy take out the Tarrasqe. Well, unless you acualy look up his stats in the old adventure he was in, but I'm sure he has had time to gain experience since then. I think the CR's are intentionally ambiguous, so as to provoke discussion and focus said discussion on potential for a future adventure. However, one can derive a rough estimate of the minimal stat block from the few keywords that are included and hence a better idea of the game-mechanics of the threat it poses. Something along the lines of how we've been dissecting the Beholder. |
| bohon06-02-05, 02:24 PM | I voted for the this as I like drow and i like golems I think it would make a Pretty cool adventure to go up againt this in setting online Plus a pirate Beholder come on that is just reaching out there a bit much. the gol;em In all right would stomp the mess out of the beholder reguardless, now backed up with an drow lich and alot of attitude and there is sosmething to worry about |
| Enterik06-02-05, 03:10 PM | I voted for the this as I like drow and i like golems I think it would make a Pretty cool adventure to go up againt this in setting online SO you like drow and golems. Okay. What kind of cool adventure do you imagine? Plus a pirate Beholder come on that is just reaching out there a bit much. the golem In all right would stomp the mess out of the beholder reguardless, now backed up with an drow lich and alot of attitude and there is sosmething to worry about Why is this anymore a reach than the Lich? Because no-one has ever put a beholder in a maritime setting before? Because Beholders sit in small underground rooms in the dark waiting for some PC to say, "I slowly open the door, with my torch in one hand and my weapon in the other..."? |
| delroland06-02-05, 03:40 PM | I am a little surprised they didn't make it an eye of the deep, but that would probably be a little too oscure for those that haven't played 2nd or 1st Ed. |
| bohon06-02-05, 03:45 PM | This is true the beholders are more like a very wicked trap where the Golem is given a purpose and it will follow its instructions to the best of its ability now a pirate beholder is going to be the same thing as usual with the flavor that it is going to have is undead pets and have a patch on its eye but still its going to be the little trap that is going to fry the first group it sees The golem is going to do what its told and backed by a power hungry, mad Drow lich it would seem very interesting to go on a hunt to stop the dealing of this lich as it destroys, everything above ground as a testiment of how much the drow/lich hates the above ground living races |
| tarrasqueDM12306-02-05, 04:30 PM | Okay, I think I'm fairly good at this voting thing now. So this new thing Beholder against the Drow Lich and her Golem. First of all any Lich just scares :shocked: the crap outta my players and two Who likes drows anyway? :thinks: I'm sorry if you do but I have never met a person who likes Drows! Although her golem does interest me... :schemes: On the other hand the swashbucker seems pretty cool.I'd consider having a zombie parrot as a pet. And look on the bright side it's one less eye to shoot magical beams at you. So this one goes for the Beholder(sorry if I remembered how to spell his name I would be using it). But remember if he gets in the tarrasque is going to kick his butt!(and same goes for the Lich thing) |
| Hackmaster+1206-02-05, 05:00 PM | A beholder pirate? With a cutesy little zombie parrot? Puh-lease. This is THE corniest monster I have ever seen. My players would all die to this from uncontrolable fits of laughter. When not over-cliche'ed like a bad RA Salvatore book, drow can be pretty cool foes. Throw the word lich into an encounter description should cause any PC to cringe. Lastly, no one likes fighting a golem and their frustrating DR. My vote goes to the drow lich and greater iron golem. |
| Azuaron06-02-05, 07:42 PM | nothing would be worse for this board than to see it degenerate into Pirate vs. Ninja instead of Beholder Swashbuckler vs. Warforged Ninja. BUT THAT'S THE MAIN POINT OF THIS!!! Vote for the Beholder Sqashbuckler! AND VOTE FOR MEEPO! That's where you're wrong. The MAIN POINT OF THIS is to determine the coolest monster, not drudge up old arguments on whether Pirates or Ninjas are better. I'm looking forward to week 12: "Succubus Paladin vs. Meepo" :schemes: And whose to say the Succubus Paladin wins her first match? What if the Illithid wins? Why would you not want to feature a diabolic creature that eats brains in an adventure? The golem is going to do what its told and backed by a power hungry, mad Drow lich it would seem very interesting to go on a hunt to stop the dealing of this lich as it destroys, everything above ground as a testiment of how much the drow/lich hates the above ground living races Who ever said the drow lich was mad? Who ever even said the drow lich was evil? Sure, everything points to the lich being evil (although absolutely nothing points to it being mad, happy, insane, or without emotion), but we have a Succubus Paladin with a Vrock mount coming up championing Good. That's two demons made good, one with Pal levels, so for all we know this lich is a Baelnorn, with a desire to do good and overthrow the other drow oppressors. (On the subject of other kinds of liches, I'd like to mention the Alhoon, also known as the Illithilich, and post their description here: These undead mind flayers are a rising power in the twisted politics of the Underdark. They look much as they did in life, but their skins are dry and wrinkled, not slime-covered as a living illithid's is. An alhoon possesses all the normal powers of a mind flayer. All alhoons were once wizards or sorcerers (usually at least 9th level), so they possess a deadly mixture of psionic and magical ability. They do not have a lich's fear aura or paralyzing touch, but have all the standard special qualities. They retain their illithid spell resistance, which actually hinders their complete adaptation to the lich state. Alhoon are plagued by ongoing skin wrinkling and tissue desiccation, which they counteract by bathing or by drinking water, soup, and other liquids (including and especially brain fluid. This last part isn't in MOF, but I think it should be). This is one monster you wouldn't want to meet down some dark alley, or even a light alley for that matter. I'm entirely confident that an alhoon could take the whole thing, while I'm only slightly confident that the psion illithid can. But I have to work with what they give me so... Go Shuluth! |
| Dogurasu_Thanatos06-02-05, 08:45 PM | I, personally, voted for Jannys Shadowgaunt. She may be a series of stereotypes: She is a drow that likes spiders. She is a lich with a guardian golem (in the shape of the spider that she likes). What it does not say about her, though, is what kind of lich she is. Indeed, she may well be a baelnorn, but that still doesn't say enough -- what class was she before death and undeath that allowed her to become such a creature? Was she a cleric, a wizard, a sorceress? Could she have been a warlock with the imbue item ability and an Abysmally high Use Magic Device check (noting that while the Monster Manual does state you must be able to cast spells, it was made before the differentiation between spellcasting and caster level was introduced)? Could she be a nearly epic-level hexblade with the Practiced Spellcaster feat? How has she empowered her greater iron golem -- perhaps with poisonous fangs, web spells at will? Has she awakened the greater iron golem? These and more possibilities exist for Jannys Shadowgaunt, to say nothing of her lackeys! Now, as for Xxerlflyyn (what a name!), there stand some complications. "Why" is a very, very big question in my mind. He has a lot of backstory potential, to be sure, but... well, this creature is just way too much of a stretch for me to see happening. If Wizards can make it happen, so be it; however, I'm personally at a great loss as to what to do with this character. The parrot has possibilities; Xxerlflyyn... not so much. However, the point is null and void; I can already see that, at the very end, it's probably going to come down to either Xxerlflyyn vs. the warforged ninja (which I also voted for, because I like warforged) or the Tarrasque vs. Meepo. Sadly enough, I see Meepo winning that, should it come down to it; however, if it must become the pirates vs. ninja thing, I will be all for that -- it will decide, once and for all, which of the two is cooler. And finally, the arguments will STOP. (Though it might be interesting to actually pit pirates against ninjas in a campaign.) |
| ursa2306-03-05, 03:52 AM | A beholder pirate? With a cutesy little zombie parrot? Puh-lease. This is THE corniest monster I have ever seen. Then let me offer you this, my awesomely named friend: A ninja. named Corny the Corncob Man, made entirely out of corncob, who smokes a corncob pipe :confused: Seriously, a DM I once had gave us this as the prime enemy in an adventure. It was the last time we ran with him. At least the Beholder has a little flavor. |
| Evil Succubus Evaligan06-03-05, 04:42 AM | Why the Succubus had to be a paladin? is very beautiful the evil way... :devil: maybe a Succubus Fiend of Possession/Fiend of Corruption... or a Succubus Blackguard... but a Paladin? :embarrass I kill many paladins with my succubus. :rolleyes: :embarrass Okay the succubus paladin have greater powers (in special her saves)... :devil: but is better a chaotic evil succubus than a lawful good succubus. If the succubus is a paladin, she doesn't rot to use possession or energy drain or some of their tricks. :weep: :banghead: I hate the paladins, but I love to the succubus. :cheer: :love: :inlove: :weep: If the succubus was not paladin... she could violate the Mind Flayer without problems and to make it their slave. :) VOTE FOR SUCCUBUS |
| Red_Decker06-03-05, 05:33 AM | Why the Succubus had to be a paladin? is very beautiful the evil way... :devil: maybe a Succubus Fiend of Possession/Fiend of Corruption... or a Succubus Blackguard... but a Paladin? :embarrass I kill many paladins with my succubus. :rolleyes: :embarrass Okay the succubus paladin have greater powers (in special her saves)... :devil: but is better a chaotic evil succubus than a lawful good succubus. If the succubus is a paladin, she doesn't rot to use possession or energy drain or some of their tricks. :weep: :banghead: I hate the paladins, but I love to the succubus. :cheer: :love: :inlove: :weep: If the succubus was not paladin... she could violate the Mind Flayer without problems and to make it their slave. :) VOTE FOR SUCCUBUS She can still smite the Illithid and ensure it doesn't turn into Anime Hentai. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/lady1raven/meepo/Meepo_02.gif |
| Santrilla06-03-05, 06:37 AM | Personally I think an adventure with a beholder pirate would be far more interesting and funny than one with a drow lich. Plus, I think subconsciously I want this to boil down to pirates vs ninjas :P |
| Falrion06-03-05, 08:40 AM | Okay, I think I'm fairly good at this voting thing now. So this new thing Beholder against the Drow Lich and her Golem. First of all any Lich just scares :shocked: the crap outta my players and two Who likes drows anyway? :thinks: I'm sorry if you do but I have never met a person who likes Drows! Although her golem does interest me... :schemes: I Like Drow.. Not just because they are evil... Because they are cunning and merciless too :D 2 weeks ago, I got to play (finally, it had been abou t 2 years without playing... :w00t: ) an All-Drow session, in the middle of Menzoberranzan. Pure political schemes and social skills... in about 8 hours worth of play I made only 1 attack roll.. well it was all my rogue needed to kill a servant from an oposing house, who knew i had been going into Sorcere without authorization... On the other hand the swashbucker seems pretty cool.I'd consider having a zombie parrot as a pet. And look on the bright side it's one less eye to shoot magical beams at you. :teach: The Eye it is missing is the only 1 wich doesn`t shoot a ray... it is a cone of anti-magic, so NOW it can shot its rays without having to worry about the centra eye... :gah: |
| Orvar06-03-05, 09:36 AM | In the Meepo vs. Badger match, I am going all out for the badger. Mainly because I tend to vote the opposite of others. Go BADGER! |
| KoboldSlayer06-03-05, 10:15 AM | I've read alot of posts that say that the drow/lich is "too cliche". I have a simple question about that: What is the matter with a cliche now and again? Cliches can actually add some continuity and predictability to the game and some stability to a storyline. They also serve to make the unusual truly "unusual". For example: If the players are constantly fighting "cliche" evil goblins that are raiding human settlements and carrying off captives and burning farmhouses to the ground, then when they meet a goblin later in the campaign that is good and trying to just ply his simple trade as a travelling merchant...he'll be all the more interesting. If every goblin they met was somehow unusual, then that takes the punch out of the goblin you intended to be "interesting". Similarly, if your drow aren't "cliche" drow, then any special drow you use will not be "special"...they'll just be "more drow". (I wouldn't recommend using "special" or "good" drow, though...it's been publicized over and over already. It is just an example.) Finally, if all your creatures are strange, such as a swashbuckler beholder, a paladin succubus, or a half-dragon pixie...then when you throw in another strange creature, it's just more of the same. They lose their impact. I think a better story is made if you stick with mostly stereotypes. (Orcs bad, archons good, demons evil, doors trapped.) Then, when you throw in the good orc, the evil celestial, the door without a trap...your players will notice it for what it is: a strange occurance. Not the newest in a parade of freaky things to dance through your adventure. (Just kidding about the doors...they don't ALL need traps.) |
| Enterik06-03-05, 11:24 AM | This is true the beholders are more like a very wicked trap where the Golem is given a purpose and it will follow its instructions to the best of its ability So let me get this right, you suppose that a recently animated construct has more sense of purpose than a Beholder, which is after all an intelligent self-aware free-thinking entity? That's kind of absurd. Now maybe the Lich has a purpose and intelligence comparable to a Beholder, but the golem is a robot with even less programming than the warforged ninja...:bored: now a pirate beholder is going to be the same thing as usual with the flavor that it is going to have is undead pets and have a patch on its eye but still its going to be the little trap that is going to fry the first group it sees Huh?! I thought that was the golems job? Seriously though if the Lich has any wisdom the Golems instructions will be to "Run-Away!" It's not like the Beholder is going to hide-out in the ship's ballast until the party has hacked it's way through the crew and into the ship so that it can shout "Have at you scurvy dogs!" Like every good pirate captain it has a plan to terrorize the high seas and coastal ports. :plotting: Plus, I think you under-estimate the undead parrot's paralyzing touch, or as has been mentioned by Falrion, the missing anti-magic cone means all eye-stalks all the time, so melee specialists will have no where to hide from the eye-stalks. I can see the Beholder as he monologues over their impending fate as undead pirates on his ship, with the PCs har-harring at the wimpiness of a beholder sans antimagic cone when all of a sudden one of them flies over the gunwale having been hit the telekinetic force of an eye stalk. "Hey, he can't zap us right in front of him, his anti-mag..." :eek: The golem is going to do what its told and backed by a power hungry, mad Drow lich it would seem very interesting to go on a hunt to stop the dealing of this lich as it destroys, everything above ground as a testiment of how much the drow/lich hates the above ground living races The world-weary Lich wheezes, "Here's my phylactery, I'm tired of unliving, please destroy it for me, please" :rolleyes: Now maybe the lich would go on a rampage with said phylactery hiding some aboveground complex suitably warded against intruders, but otherwise not bring attention to itself. As has been said by others, this boils down to a race against time, destroy lich, find phylactery, destroy phylactery, lich manifests just before phylactery is destroyed, fights on to true death. Of course there could be some plot twists like decoy phylacteries, but that is the stuff of campaigns and not one-off online adventures. :lightbulb |
| Airsucker06-03-05, 11:59 AM | :whatsthis <Finds lasts holiday season's printed coloring book from the WotC website.> Iyov! Was I progammed to like beholders? That's ok. Zombie parrots are cool. :tongue: |
| FatherNature06-03-05, 12:14 PM | so...what makes the "Female Drow Lich" so special? I'd assume she is a spellcaster, but...It does not say... but a lich is dead so...Desintigrate! GO BEHOLDER!! |
| Manyfist06-03-05, 12:43 PM | PS: still can't believe you guys chose the ninja. I mean with all that metal he is going to be the noisiest ninja in history. Actually He's only laced with metal here and their. He isn't a robot so you shouldn't hear his 'Gears' moving about. He's made of stone, wood, and laced with metal. Besides, who's the Ultimate say so when he flips out and kills you? :D |
| DuskyFruit06-03-05, 01:23 PM | Why is the drow stereotype??? As far as I know drow liches are a rarity and especially drow female liches. And I'd like to know who've heard about a golem phylactery before? It seems to me that everything that just get close to drow is rated stereotype before anyone looks at it. As for the beholder, I like to run my games somewhat serious and I can easily imagine what will happen if my players encounter a beholder pirate, they'll spend a couple of gaming sessions laughing, the beholder idea is simply to silly, I would never even consider using anything like it. Originally Posted by tarrasqueDM123 Okay, I think I'm fairly good at this voting thing now. So this new thing Beholder against the Drow Lich and her Golem. First of all any Lich just scares the crap outta my players and two Who likes drows anyway? I'm sorry if you do but I have never met a person who likes Drows! Although her golem does interest me... I like drow. And at last, I'd like to know why everyone think that the ninja vs. pirate fight is so interresting? |
| Diefreak06-03-05, 01:54 PM | Dude that's the whole point becouse pc's will laugh at a pirate beholder but there ignerance and stupidity is what kill them.....you don't laugh when you sww any beholder any. Now unless your not a very good DM You should be trying to kill them and if there just laughing at a beholder then go in for the kill.The beholder won this round. Vote Beholder 05 |
| Sidi06-03-05, 03:39 PM | The beholder lost his antimagic eye and is going up against a female drow, which translates to spellcaster. She is also a lich, that means powerful. Powerful spellcaster - antimagic eye = dead beholder. Let's not even start comparing their tag team partners. The mechaspider quiet literally eats the zombie parrot. |
| Eldon Thorngage06-03-05, 03:45 PM | She can still smite the Illithid and ensure it doesn't turn into Anime Hentai. I was wondering if someone would make one of these jokes. I can't bring in Illithids into my campaigns because everytime I do, one of my players starts making the LaBlueGirl jokes. Which is usually followed by some of the worst anime puns ever heard. Though while I have your attention GO BADGER |
| Drindin06-03-05, 06:23 PM | Ahem... VOTE LICH '05 |
| delroland06-03-05, 07:36 PM | Who ever said the drow lich was mad? Who ever even said the drow lich was evil? Sure, everything points to the lich being evil (although absolutely nothing points to it being mad, happy, insane, or without emotion), ... so for all we know this lich is a Baelnorn, with a desire to do good and overthrow the other drow oppressors. Yeah, that is the most likely possibility. :rolleyes: Lesse, drow, alignment usually NE. Lich, alignment any evil. And I don't recall seeing Baelnorn anywhere in the description of the creature. Heck, this entire argument is a logical fallacy, so knock it off. We aren't dealing with remote possibilities or "what ifs" here. |
| skyler06-03-05, 07:57 PM | The beholder lost his antimagic eye and is going up against a female drow, which translates to spellcaster. She is also a lich, that means powerful. Powerful spellcaster - antimagic eye = dead beholder. Let's not even start comparing their tag team partners. The mechaspider quiet literally eats the zombie parrot. 1 the beholder is not fighting the lich. 2 if it did the beholder has disintigrate and flesh to stone plus undead have bad fortitude saves. 3 the beholder has levels just like the lich maby even more who knows it could be an epic beholder slapping around a puny drow adapt. 4 constructs dont eat |
| Storm Child06-03-05, 08:05 PM | Why not a good lich? The succubus is a paladin so that would be a what if as well. And beholder swashbuckler/pirate is not exactly usual either that is a borderline what if. I mean typically beholders are underground or ruin inhabiting creatures who rarely see water let alone oceans. All the characters are what ifs. The people who created them were like what if a dragon bred with a naga and the half-dragon naga became a shapeshifter? What if a succubus was converted to good without the use of Sanctify the wicked and became a paladin? Vote for Paladins in '05 |
| Meshakhad06-03-05, 11:10 PM | Golems have magic immunity. The beholder has almost no chance. |
| darktemplar5106-04-05, 12:34 AM | I Voted for Jannys Shadowgaunt, because liches and Iron golems are cool. beholders are nice, but you need something more that swashbuckler to make it be on the same level as Jannys. The beholder can't do much of anything that could truely hurt Jannys, and Jannys just has to out-wait Xxerlfyyn. being undead has alot of unmentioned advantages over the living. one of the funnier ones is to claim victory over enimies by outliving (out-unliving?) them. |
| delroland06-04-05, 06:01 AM | Why not a good lich? Because a good lich is called a baelnorn, and nowhere does it say the drow lich is a baelnorn. To assume she is good in this instance would be like assuming the sky was orange because it isn't green. |
| Qube06-04-05, 06:42 AM | would be like assuming the sky was orange because it isn't green. yeh so? nothing wrong with that: if it was important that the sky is blue, the DM would't of said that its blue, and not that it's not green :P |
| Red_Decker06-04-05, 07:35 AM | yeh so? nothing wrong with that: if it was important that the sky is blue, the DM would't of said that its blue, and not that it's not green :P I've never actually seen the sky green but I have seen it red, blue, orange, pink, purple, even gray. It's called sunset, and the angle of the sun is directly related to the color of the sky. That is however neighter here nor there. I don't think the lich is a baelnorn because it doesn't say it is. It says the succubus is a good paladin so it would most likely say if it is or not. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/lady1raven/meepo/Meepo_02.gif |
| Qube06-04-05, 07:44 AM | i think i kind of lost the point of the thraid. sorry |
| Ogre4Hire06-04-05, 02:00 PM | Well, in terms of coolness factor, I prefer the Lich. Beholders bore me, and the idea of a beholder swashbuckler just seems silly and uninteresting. Drow Lich W/ Big metal spider is closer to what I prefer. In terms of actual combat (which is not what this is supposed to be about) I still favor the Lich, because without his Antimagic cone, the Beholder will have no way to get through all of the protections and Illusions that the Lich will be throwing up. |
| bgt06-04-05, 02:46 PM | This was a tough one for me. On one hand, beholders are abberitions (I like abberitions). On the other hand, the tricked -out phylactery is cool. After talking to my players, the said that the beholder swashbuckler was simply to silly for them, and that they wouldn't want to be in an adventure with it. My vote goes to the drow. |
| Azuaron06-04-05, 03:48 PM | Yeah, that is the most likely possibility. :rolleyes: Lesse, drow, alignment usually NE. Lich, alignment any evil. And I don't recall seeing Baelnorn anywhere in the description of the creature. Heck, this entire argument is a logical fallacy, so knock it off. We aren't dealing with remote possibilities or "what ifs" here. Have you seen the monsters on this list? I thought it was pretty obvious we were dealing with remote possibilities and "what ifs" here. A Baelnorn is a good, elf lich. Jannys is an elf, and is a lich. Alignment is unspecified. Therefore, good lich is a possibility. Maybe you should open your mind even a crack to think of the possibilities WotC can throw at us with unspecified information. To say we're not dealing with remote possibilities or "what ifs" here with creatures like a Succubus Paladin, Warforged Ninja, Beholder Swashbuckler, many templated madness, and a kobold that could very well take the entire competition is to just reveal your own stupidity. "It is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."--Abraham Lincoln That being said, Jannys probably is evil. My point was that she probably wasn't insane, and didn't have to be evil, it's just the most likely possibility. But don't EVER make the argument that we're not dealing with remote possibilities or "what ifs." |
| Scaly One06-04-05, 10:18 PM | Why the Succubus had to be a paladin? is very beautiful the evil way... :devil: maybe a Succubus Fiend of Possession/Fiend of Corruption... or a Succubus Blackguard... but a Paladin? :embarrass I kill many paladins with my succubus. :rolleyes: :embarrass Okay the succubus paladin have greater powers (in special her saves)... :devil: but is better a chaotic evil succubus than a lawful good succubus. If the succubus is a paladin, she doesn't rot to use possession or energy drain or some of their tricks. :weep: :banghead: I hate the paladins, but I love to the succubus. :cheer: :love: :inlove: :weep: If the succubus was not paladin... she could violate the Mind Flayer without problems and to make it their slave. :) VOTE FOR SUCCUBUS Hum.. Why 'm I Rememb'ring of po'corn right now? Oh Yeah, cuz I've sent a surface pally grlll to a not so sane squid head... I nevah think tha' have tentacls arround the mouth wuld evah pass thru M' mind... *finding that things with scales can be nice chairs* |
| ursa2306-05-05, 03:26 AM | "It is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."--Abraham Lincoln That being said, Jannys probably is evil. My point was that she probably wasn't insane, and didn't have to be evil, is just the most likely possibility. But don't EVER make the argument that we're not dealing with remote possibilities or "what ifs." I believe that no one was trying to say that the monsters on this list are not wildly imaginative. Seems to me, the point is that WotC would provide us with pertinent information about the characters depicted herein. The question is not "could it be a Baelnorn", but rather, "if it was a baelnorn, wouldn't the description say so"? Being as they went far enough to include the fact that the Succubus is redeemed, I think a different alignment would have been revealed in the Lich's description. We should really play the hands we've been dealt. Also, the Lincoln "quote" above is largely considered by historians to be unattributable. For a real Lincoln quote on the subject: "I am rather inclined to silence, and whether that be wise or not, it is at least more unusual nowadays to find a man who can hold his tongue than to find one who cannot." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume IV, "Remarks at the Monogahela House" (February 14, 1861), p. 209. |
| Airsucker06-05-05, 09:30 AM | So on the minis board part of a post of mine mentions that I have no kobolds in my collection. We bought 3 boxes yesterday and not only is there not a kobold, but I get a celestial dire badger. :rolleyes: I think I have bad karma or something. I wanna a Meepo mini! |
| Red_Decker06-05-05, 10:18 AM | So on the minis board part of a post of mine mentions that I have no kobolds in my collection. We bought 3 boxes yesterday and not only is there not a kobold, but I get a celestial dire badger. :rolleyes: I think I have bad karma or something. I wanna a Meepo mini! I have but a single kobold mini. The first one from Harbinger. I don't have his card but I do have one. On a side note ebay current features the sale of quite literally boat loads of kobold minis for at most $3.50 +S&H. Meepo would rock to have as a mini. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/lady1raven/meepo/Meepo_02.gif |
| Temroc06-05-05, 12:17 PM | And I'd like to know who've heard about a golem phylactery before? It seems to me that everything that just get close to drow is rated stereotype before anyone looks at it. Take a look at Book 6 of the 'War of the Spider Queen'. |
| Kadasbrass06-05-05, 01:18 PM | I got 4 Kobold minis, got three of them on Worldwide D&D day... Been buying Aberration packs to get the Sorcerer and Champ, ended up having to fork over $3 to buy a champ, no sorcerer yet :( I say the prize of this competition be changed so that the winner gets a mini inaddition to an adventure! |
| Don Kebagame06-05-05, 02:17 PM | It's only cliche because Gromph Baenre just killed one. And it's freakin' IDENTICAL (save for the fact that Agrach Dyrr was a lowly 'male'), i mean come on! Spider Golem Phylactery my a$$. It's right from the book. Take that Temroc... Don Kebagame, Cambion Assassin |
| Don Kebagame06-05-05, 02:19 PM | ...good liches aren't called baelnorns, elven liches are. good liches are just 'liches'... kiss my ring, litches! Don Kebagame, Cambion Assassin |
| Merxis06-05-05, 02:38 PM | I just have to say that a Beholder swashbuckler is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. Sorry, but imagine a group of heroes actually encountering this thing in a dungeon, and how pathetic it will be to play- can you say "suspension of disbelief out the window"? Because that is what you have. A lot of eyeballs rolling at you from across the table, joking about how pathetic that adventure was, and just hoping next session isn't so absurd. Most people like a game that has a tone of seriousness to it that you cannot have with a pirate beholder with a zombie parrot. Yes, it's funny- but just too basely absurd in my book. On the other hand, the lich with the golem phylactery is indeed 'classic'- but in a very good, very D&D manner. Overall, Meepo is taking the prize anyways so this round doesn't even manner. VOTE KOBOLD 05! |
| Manyfist06-05-05, 02:54 PM | It's only cliche because Gromph Baenre just killed one. And it's freakin' IDENTICAL (save for the fact that Agrach Dyrr was a lowly 'male'), i mean come on! Spider Golem Phylactery my a$$. It's right from the book. Take that Temroc... Don Kebagame, Cambion Assassin Damn I need to get the Paper backs of the War of the Spide Queen, I stop at III, because Barnes and Noble didn't have the IV, and V yet. I did get Viper's Kiss, and The Crimson Talisman, though. :D |
| Manyfist06-05-05, 03:01 PM | I just have to say that a Beholder swashbuckler is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. Sorry, but imagine a group of heroes actually encountering this thing in a dungeon, and how pathetic it will be to play- can you say "suspension of disbelief out the window"? Because that is what you have. A lot of eyeballs rolling at you from across the table, joking about how pathetic that adventure was, and just hoping next session isn't so absurd. Most people like a game that has a tone of seriousness to it that you cannot have with a pirate beholder with a zombie parrot. Yes, it's funny- but just too basely absurd in my book. On the other hand, the lich with the golem phylactery is indeed 'classic'- but in a very good, very D&D manner. Overall, Meepo is taking the prize anyways so this round doesn't even manner. VOTE KOBOLD 05! Liches are stupid, this is because they been done before. Swashbuckling Beholder, gots my vote, because its more original and hilarious. Who wouldn't want to be fighting against a Swashbuckling Beholder? With his rapier in his mouth, or through TK. How is it Absurd to have a Zombie Parrot? I think its Absurb to have your phylactery, inside a Golem shaped like a Gaint Spider, who's roaming up above. Chances are that Some one already destroy the Gaint Spider, then the Lich gets killed for good by the Adventerers. Meepo had his Chance. Vote Frenzied Berserker Troll 05'~ |
| delroland06-05-05, 04:06 PM | Have you seen the monsters on this list? I thought it was pretty obvious we were dealing with remote possibilities and "what ifs" here. A Baelnorn is a good, elf lich. Jannys is an elf, and is a lich. Alignment is unspecified. Therefore, good lich is a possibility. Maybe you should open your mind even a crack to think of the possibilities WotC can throw at us with unspecified information. To say we're not dealing with remote possibilities or "what ifs" here with creatures like a Succubus Paladin, Warforged Ninja, Beholder Swashbuckler, many templated madness, and a kobold that could very well take the entire competition is to just reveal your own stupidity. "It is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."--Abraham Lincoln That being said, Jannys probably is evil. My point was that she probably wasn't insane, and didn't have to be evil, is just the most likely possibility. But don't EVER make the argument that we're not dealing with remote possibilities or "what ifs." So now I'm a fool, huh? How about Occam's Razor, in my signature? That philosophical standpoint is based on making as few assumptions as possible. Should we assume the lich is insane? Probably not. Should we assume the lich is good? Almost definately not. Which is more likely? I would say the first, as Kiaranselee is the drow goddess of undead and insanity, so if the drow is a servitor of Kiaranselee, then she may very well be insane. But not all undead drow worship Kiaranselee, and not all of the worshippers are insane. But the possibility is there. Whereas according to the RAW, liches are evil. Period. Otherwise they wouldn't be liches. They would be baelnorn. (And since this is a drow, she would qualify.) My point is that it is irrational to state a possibility and then assume it is 100% true, which is what a lot of people are doing. Such conjecture only serves to add unnecessary flack to this thread and is a waste of everyone's time. And when I say that we aren't dealing with remote possibilities and "what ifs", I am referring to being within the context of the thread. Does the warforged ninja throw 40-die fireballs at will? If he did, he would almost be a shoe-in for the win, what with the ninja fanatics and all. And WotC could very well add this ability to the character, as it doesn't say he can't (note the double negative; I'll get to that later). But I am pretty certain they won't, as they provided us with enough information to know what the character was about. The same applies to the lich. We could assume that the lich is good, but that would be a significant change to the flavor of the NPC, one which I think WotC would have included so as to allow voters to know what they were voting for. Plus, her fascination with spiders means she probably worships Lolth, or at least did at one point in time, which makes her almost definately evil. Your whole argument of the lich being good violates at least one of my signature statements, as well as common rules of grammar. 1) Occam's Razor: you require too many unlikely assumptions for the lich to be good, which pretty much eliminates the chance of her being good. 2) By the way you are so quick to insult others who disagree with you, I must assume you violated the wisdom of Mistress Luhhan. In other words, just because you want something to be true does not make it true. 3) Your whole argument revolves around a double negative. "She can be good because it doesn't say she isn't." This is bad grammar as well as a logical fallacy. Oh, and insulting me is another logical fallacy. |
| delroland06-05-05, 04:19 PM | Here's an interesting train of thought: why do so many people like Meepo? Is it a classic example of cheering for the underdog? Or is it something else? Also, will we be dealing with wussy-pants dragon handler Meepo or special forces urban commando Meepo? |
| Aeolus9106-05-05, 05:48 PM | Anyhow, we all know that the warforged ninja is gonna win, what with all the ninja anime fanboys here. "But his Katana (sha-PIIIIING!) can cut through the Tarrasque's natural armor and carapace because I saw InuYasha do something like that once..." As for Meepo........ He's just Meepo. |
| Zachary The First06-05-05, 05:55 PM | Anyhow, we all know that the warforged ninja is gonna win, what with all the ninja anime fanboys here. "But his Katana (sha-PIIIIING!) can cut through the Tarrasque's natural armor and carapace because I saw InuYasha do something like that once..." Man, is that going to **** me off if that happens. Another indicator of the devolution of today's gamers. I like some anime, but it has to be the worst thing to happen to role-playing (unless you're playing BESM) since the CG Drow Ranger Epidemic. |
| Manyfist06-05-05, 06:28 PM | Man, is that going to **** me off if that happens. Another indicator of the devolution of today's gamers. I like some anime, but it has to be the worst thing to happen to role-playing (unless you're playing BESM) since the CG Drow Ranger Epidemic. Oh no! Not the Drizzit franchise! :P |
| bgt06-05-05, 06:40 PM | Also, will we be dealing with wussy-pants dragon handler Meepo or special forces urban commando Meepo? Once, just once, I'd like to see someone call a dragon handler "wussy pants" to his face. When he's standing next to one of his pets. |
| delroland06-05-05, 06:54 PM | Except Meepo's pet was really, really small. You had a harder time finding the blasted critter than fighting it. |
| Temroc06-05-05, 08:15 PM | It's only cliche because Gromph Baenre just killed one. And it's freakin' IDENTICAL (save for the fact that Agrach Dyrr was a lowly 'male'), i mean come on! Spider Golem Phylactery my a$$. It's right from the book. Take that Temroc... Don Kebagame, Cambion Assassin Take what?? That's just what I said - DuskyFruit wanted to know where a spider golem phylactery had been seen before, and I answered. I'm confused as to what I'm supposed to be taking... the fact that your post backed me up by expanding on my original reply?? |
| GreyLord06-05-05, 08:35 PM | Don't forget that "Swashbucker Beholder" also has an eyepatch... I thought it was absurd...personally. The Beholder is lunch... I didn't even think it could be close... I obviously didn't vote for the Beholder. |
| Azuaron06-05-05, 10:26 PM | I just have to say that a Beholder swashbuckler is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. Sorry, but imagine a group of heroes actually encountering this thing in a dungeon... What idiot DM puts a Beholder swashbuckler in a dungeon? So now I'm a fool, huh? How about Occam's Razor, in my signature? That philosophical standpoint is based on making as few assumptions as possible. Should we assume the lich is insane? Probably not. Should we assume the lich is good? Almost definately not. Which is more likely? I would say the first, as Kiaranselee is the drow goddess of undead and insanity, so if the drow is a servitor of Kiaranselee, then she may very well be insane. But not all undead drow worship Kiaranselee, and not all of the worshippers are insane. But the possibility is there. Whereas according to the RAW, liches are evil. Period. Otherwise they wouldn't be liches. They would be baelnorn. (And since this is a drow, she would qualify.) My point is that it is irrational to state a possibility and then assume it is 100% true, which is what a lot of people are doing. Such conjecture only serves to add unnecessary flack to this thread and is a waste of everyone's time. And when I say that we aren't dealing with remote possibilities and "what ifs", I am referring to being within the context of the thread. Does the warforged ninja throw 40-die fireballs at will? If he did, he would almost be a shoe-in for the win, what with the ninja fanatics and all. And WotC could very well add this ability to the character, as it doesn't say he can't (note the double negative; I'll get to that later). But I am pretty certain they won't, as they provided us with enough information to know what the character was about. The same applies to the lich. We could assume that the lich is good, but that would be a significant change to the flavor of the NPC, one which I think WotC would have included so as to allow voters to know what they were voting for. Plus, her fascination with spiders means she probably worships Lolth, or at least did at one point in time, which makes her almost definately evil. Your whole argument of the lich being good violates at least one of my signature statements, as well as common rules of grammar. 1) Occam's Razor: you require too many unlikely assumptions for the lich to be good, which pretty much eliminates the chance of her being good. 2) By the way you are so quick to insult others who disagree with you, I must assume you violated the wisdom of Mistress Luhhan. In other words, just because you want something to be true does not make it true. 3) Your whole argument revolves around a double negative. "She can be good because it doesn't say she isn't." This is bad grammar as well as a logical fallacy. Oh, and insulting me is another logical fallacy. Yay, I now get to repeat myself: That being said, Jannys probably is evil. My point was that she probably wasn't insane, and didn't have to be evil, it's just the most likely possibility. But don't EVER make the argument that we're not dealing with remote possibilities or "what ifs." Note: I said that Jannys is probably evil. Note: I called you a fool because you said we aren't dealing with remote possibilities and "what ifs." Note: I never said the lich was probably good. In fact I've said she's probably evil. Note: Insulting you is not a logical fallacy, it is required when you say something stupid. Note: I actually want Jannys to be evil so the centerpiece is a villain. Note: My logic isn't based on a double negative as you say. The fact that your mind works in such a way as to make it a double negative says a lot about you. My logic is based on: she can be good because it doesn't say she's evil. Only one negative there. Note: Occam's Razor only works in the real world. This is fantasy. Deal with it. That being said, I did say she was probably evil, in line with Occam's Razor, which says that the simplest solution is probably the right one. Read: "probably," not always. Note: If you're going to argue with me, come up with better arguments, it is too easy to win when everything you say is contradicted by what I already said. |
| Beleriphon06-06-05, 02:44 AM | Everybody vote for the Beholder Pirate, if he wins he has to face a Warforged Ninja! Natural enemies will fight for supremacy here, Ninja vs. Pirate! |
| delroland06-06-05, 02:54 AM | Note: If you're going to argue with me, come up with better arguments, it is too easy to win when everything you say is contradicted by what I already said. Okay, fine, whatever. You "win". Congratulations. :rolleyes: |
| DuskyFruit06-06-05, 07:22 AM | Originally posted by: Beleriphon Everybody vote for the Beholder Pirate, if he wins he has to face a Warforged Ninja! Natural enemies will fight for supremacy here, Ninja vs. Pirate! Pirates and ninjas, natural enemies? Where did you get that idea? |
| vutha_vaecaesin06-06-05, 09:15 AM | they are natural enemies since the anime convention circuit last year. just more fanboys with nothing better to do. and for the record: Ninjas would SOOOO win |
| fizzbang06-06-05, 09:30 AM | Meepo would rock to have as a mini. Why stop there? When the inevitable next edition of D&D comes out (for better or worse), I'd love to see kobolds as one of the basic races in the Player's Handbook, if only to see them given an Iconic Character. =} |
| fizzbang06-06-05, 09:51 AM | Here's an interesting train of thought: why do so many people like Meepo? Is it a classic example of cheering for the underdog? Or is it something else? Well, I never played the module with the original Meepo, so I'm probably not getting the full Meepo Experience. But kobolds have had a long history of extreme popularity in my circle of gamers, either as perservering and vicious underdogs (like a whole tribe of Wiley Coyotes!), or as devious and clever trappers and tacticians. Add in some of their interesting roleplaying or tactical potentials as PCs, and you've got an oft-overlooked race with a surprisingly loyal fanbase. Really, anyone who sees them as just annoying nuisances has never faced them in their layers with a cruel DM. Of course, the "Ecology of Kobolds" article in the recent Dragon magazine should be teaching that lesson to plenty of people soon enough. Also, will we be dealing with wussy-pants dragon handler Meepo or special forces urban commando Meepo? I just assumed they were one and the same: obviously, Meepo the dragon handler went on to further misadventures, eventually ending up on the wrong side of a powerful planar rip that landed him in a strange, urban world. But I imagine that his time in d20 Modern (http://www.wizards.com/d20modern/images/d20m_gallery/610_088190_92.jpg) has changed him. The comical Meepo of the past is dead; now he's Special Operative Meepo, a grizzled veteran of a thousand shadow wars, cold and hard from seeing good men die, usually as a result of his precise and professional traps and tactics. He still considers himself a dragon-handler of sorts, though: his magically enhanced shotgun, "Tiamat", provides all of the dragonbreath he needs. That badger doesn't stand a chance. |
| ursa2306-06-05, 10:00 AM | Note: If you're going to argue with me, come up with better arguments, it is too easy to win when everything you say is contradicted by what I already said. This statement reminds me of my friend, totally stoned, playing chess. Eventually, he got bored, stood up, said "I win.", and went to get a soda. Just cause you say it, doesn't make it fact. No one is a fool for not saying "what if" during this contest. They are only realists who realize that WotC would have covered necessary character traits in the info line. Fools are people who throw out wild theories like GOOD LICHES, G-cubes with templates, or delroland's amusing "ninja fireball" hyperbole. Also, Occam's Razor works everywhere. Unless, of course, you have a DM similar to my first DM :D |
| Enterik06-06-05, 01:31 PM | ...for Xxerrlflyyn the swashbuckling Beholder, due primarily to the loss of it's anti-magic cone emitting eye. Why? This is variation that should totally alter the Beholder's approach to combat and rob any party of a relatively safe haven. Additionally, Beholders are usually presented as solitary beings, for good reason, but this one has a crew, my guess is an undead one, if the parrot familiar is any indicator. Beholder leadership would also be flavorful. And what if that eye-patch is magical, anyways, it should be clear that I am intrigued with the possibilities. The Drow Lich Iron Golem Pylactery on the other hand, while more interesting that the sum of it's components seems less flexible and less flavorful to me, it's not a bad idea, it's not bereft of interest, but just more limited, and not as novel, in my estimation. Plus, I view the mobile phylactery as a flaw in reasoning from the Lich's perspective. |
| Its_meh06-06-05, 03:05 PM | Ah, finally a creature competition that I had to think about. "Xxerlflyyn" Beholder Swashbuckler, would have had my vote, but only if he had a zombie spider monkey as a sidekick, as a pirate has got to have a monkey as a sidekick. As a staple in any game when you already have a robot ninja (i.e. warforged ninja), you need to have it fight a monkey pirate. This is due to the fact that robot ninjas and monkey pirates are mortal enemies. Taking this into account, I would have suggested instead of a beholder swashbuckler, either a were-monkey swashbuckler/dread pirate, or an anthropomorphic monkey swashbuckler/dread pirate. "Jannys Shadowgaunt", the Female Drow Lich/Greater Iron Golem (it's her phylactery), is a nice touch, and as such, gets my vote. |
| zank06-06-05, 04:07 PM | I just have to say that a Beholder swashbuckler is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. Sorry, but imagine a group of heroes actually encountering this thing in a dungeon, and how pathetic it will be to play- can you say "suspension of disbelief out the window"? Because that is what you have. A lot of eyeballs rolling at you from across the table, joking about how pathetic that adventure was, and just hoping next session isn't so absurd. Most people like a game that has a tone of seriousness to it that you cannot have with a pirate beholder with a zombie parrot. Yes, it's funny- but just too basely absurd in my book. On the other hand, the lich with the golem phylactery is indeed 'classic'- but in a very good, very D&D manner. Overall, Meepo is taking the prize anyways so this round doesn't even manner. VOTE KOBOLD 05!these people dont care about who would win in a fight they only pick the ones that look cool so shut up jest vote on the one u think would win. |
| Lyinginbedmon06-06-05, 04:27 PM | Naturally, people are allowed to vote on whichever they think is the coolest and they often do, but others prefer the more rational option and they are also entitled to do that as well. I myself usually prefer the rational option when possible (Which for me was not during the vote for the warforged ninja), and such a method led me to vote for Jannys Shadowgaunt |
| Brandchan06-06-05, 04:31 PM | I'm all about the Swashbucker Beholder that's an enemy with character. Something unusual, could you imagine him being the captain of a ship of pirate beholders? That would be awesome. |
| glitch_wraith06-06-05, 04:40 PM | Not sure where or why the discussion of alignments came up, but I don't care and am going to comment on them none the less. Someone brought up the possibilty that the lich may be good aligned, since they didn't say so specificly, and this post was responded by someone quoting the normal alignments for liches and drow from the monster manual. First off, just because a character is a lich or a drow does not make them evil. In Libris Mortis, rules were given for making good aligned liches, and good drow are not only possible, there becoming a cliche thanks to the popularity of Dritz (or however you spell his name. Never read the books). Secondly, its obvious the people running the compition arn't always following the alignments set out in the Monster Manual by the inclusion of a succubus palidin. According to the Monster Manual, demons are ALWAYS chaotic evil, as are most outsiders that live in alignment specific planes. (except slaadi, oddly enough, who are just mostly chaotic. I suposse the randomness of Limbo is capabable of spawning more lawful creatures on very rare occasions. Hmm, a blue slaad paladin would be very intresting.) Lastly, however, I would have to say that Janny is most likly evil, since she seems to like going for a spider motif, wich is strong evidence she worships Loth, who is evil. Anyway, I'm done for now. Back to the compition. |
| ursa2306-06-05, 05:06 PM | these people dont care about who would win in a fight they only pick the ones that look cool so shut up jest vote on the one u think would win. Gee, maybe they vote on who is cooler because IT'S THE BLOODY POINT OF THIS CONTEST!!! If you think who would win in a fight decides who's cooler, I can't stop you. Just don't rag on people for FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS!!! |
| Valgaav06-06-05, 05:45 PM | I'll tell all of you why Meepo would win... He's in DnDorks! (http://www.dndorks.com) |
| Stormonu06-06-05, 05:45 PM | If it had been a Dread Pirate Beholder, I might have voted for it. However, the lich with a phylacracy that can hold its own in combat is much more impressive than a beholder that gouges out its central eye to try and be "cool". |
| <<OlD~SChOoL>>06-06-05, 05:53 PM | hmmm.... well i have to say how awesome meepo is.. i recently started a group of players on that very adventure. Meepo is the ultimate and best little dude in the world!!!! VOTE Meepo 05'!!! |
| <<OlD~SChOoL>>06-06-05, 06:10 PM | i hope its the lich and meepster in the finals.... that would rock...... :D |
| ^Graff_EpsilonIX06-06-05, 07:55 PM | MEEPO (comon people, a kolbold! who can't vote for one)! On the subject of liches though, why wouldn't you want an ironclad drow lich (it's a drow, a lich and an unstoppable killing machine that's basically immune to spells)? Besides, why do people not like evil mechanical spiders? As a DM, I also think that you people need start realizing the RP potential behind this. Why the heck would you vote for a beholder with a parrot? It can't hold a bloody sword! WE ARE NOT PLAYING 2ND ED. and therefore there are no viable swashbuckling ships that aren't sword based! |
| Meshakhad06-06-05, 07:55 PM | Meepo does not have a shotgun. He has a magically enhanced Uzi that is silent. My earlier endorsement of the Warforged Ninja is now retracted. At least for the second tier, I am hereby endorsing Commando Meepo. Celestial Dire Badger v. Kobold with Magic Uzi. No contest. |
| Airsucker06-06-05, 08:12 PM | Well, I never played the module with the original Meepo, so I'm probably not getting the full Meepo Experience. But kobolds have had a long history of extreme popularity in my circle of gamers, either as perservering and vicious underdogs (like a whole tribe of Wiley Coyotes!), or as devious and clever trappers and tacticians. Add in some of their interesting roleplaying or tactical potentials as PCs, and you've got an oft-overlooked race with a surprisingly loyal fanbase. Really, anyone who sees them as just annoying nuisances has never faced them in their layers with a cruel DM. Of course, the "Ecology of Kobolds" article in the recent Dragon magazine should be teaching that lesson to plenty of people soon enough. I just assumed they were one and the same: obviously, Meepo the dragon handler went on to further misadventures, eventually ending up on the wrong side of a powerful planar rip that landed him in a strange, urban world. But I imagine that his time in d20 Modern (http://www.wizards.com/d20modern/images/d20m_gallery/610_088190_92.jpg) has changed him. The comical Meepo of the past is dead; now he's Special Operative Meepo, a grizzled veteran of a thousand shadow wars, cold and hard from seeing good men die, usually as a result of his precise and professional traps and tactics. He still considers himself a dragon-handler of sorts, though: his magically enhanced shotgun, "Tiamat", provides all of the dragonbreath he needs. That badger doesn't stand a chance. :cheer: :plotting: I bet Meepo can sneak pretty good and train Calcryx to do so as well. Wait til you get a buttful of icy white dragon breath! :angelhide |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god06-06-05, 11:06 PM | ...meepster... oh great! now were giving the retard nicknames?! :twitch: |
| Meshakhad06-06-05, 11:31 PM | Oh wait, he does have a shotgun. Oh, well. |
| Meshakhad06-07-05, 12:00 AM | Heck, I'll post Meepo's d20 Modern stats right here, just for kicks... Although he has the problem that he is Small size. Given that, I'll give him the HK MP5K. Most powerful Medium longarm around. Meepo Fast Hero4/Soldier1 Occupation: Military HD: 3d8+1d10 (20 hp) Speed: 20 ft Init: +8 Base Attack/Grapple: +4/-2 Defense: 24 (Class +5, Dex +4, Undercover Vest +3, Attack: Tiamat (+1 flaming HK MP5K) +11 (2d6+1+1d6 fire) Special Abilities: Evasion, uncanny dodge 1, light sensitivity Saves: Fort +2, Ref +7, Will +1 Abilities: Str 6, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 11, Cha 13 Skills: Demolitons +3, Drive +11, Hide +14, Knowledge (tactics) +5, Listen +2, Move Silently +10, Profession +7, Spot +3, Tumble +8 Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Light Armor Proficiency, Personal Firearms Proficiency, Stealthy, Weapon Focus (HK MP5K) CR: 4 Meepo usually rappels down from above, before attacking with Tiamat. Against larger foes, he will run. |
| Crispy_Spellthief06-07-05, 12:50 AM | What idiot DM puts a Beholder swashbuckler in a dungeon? A DM who wants to spice things up a bit? Just because you're a Beholder swashbuckler doesn't mean you can't wind up in a dungeon.. Right now Xxerlflyyn is just a picture and a few words of decription.. All we really know is that he's a swashbuckler Beholder with no central eye, and that he has a zombie parrot familiar. For all we know, he could be an intelligent and charismatic Beholder, wielding his scimitar telekineticaly witht the finesse of a dancer, leading his band of pirates through the dungeon in search of swag! Gads, D&D is supposed to be agame of imagination, quit adhering to "norms..." Oh, and to anyone who voted against Xxerlflyyn for the sole reason of not wanting to see this thread devolve to "ninja vs. pirate" aguments.. your reasoning is just as bad as anyone who voted for him just so he'll go up against the ninja. If you're gonna vote for the drow, give a viable reason for the drow. Me, I'm gonna choose the awkward yet infinitely more interesting combo, despite how interesting the battling phylactery is. |
| Evil Succubus Evaligan06-07-05, 02:41 AM | :banghead: :tantrum: I wanted to find the culprit that transformed to that beautiful evil succubus into a fool paladin... :bigeyes: :weep: :lightbulb I hope in the future she returns to the dark side :devil: |
| Scaly One06-07-05, 04:12 AM | He still considers himself a dragon-handler of sorts, though: his magically enhanced shotgun, "Tiamat", provides all of the dragonbreath he needs. That badger doesn't stand a chance. [Hum... a shotgun with 5 barrels... Outstanding heheheheheh..... :plotting: ] |
| Olly06-07-05, 04:28 AM | A DM who wants to spice things up a bit? Just because you're a Beholder swashbuckler doesn't mean you can't wind up in a dungeon.. Right now Xxerlflyyn is just a picture and a few words of decription.. All we really know is that he's a swashbuckler Beholder with no central eye, and that he has a zombie parrot familiar. For all we know, he could be an intelligent and charismatic Beholder, wielding his scimitar telekineticaly witht the finesse of a dancer, leading his band of pirates through the dungeon in search of swag! Gads, D&D is supposed to be agame of imagination, quit adhering to "norms..." Oh, and to anyone who voted against Xxerlflyyn for the sole reason of not wanting to see this thread devolve to "ninja vs. pirate" aguments.. your reasoning is just as bad as anyone who voted for him just so he'll go up against the ninja. If you're gonna vote for the drow, give a viable reason for the drow. Me, I'm gonna choose the awkward yet infinitely more interesting combo, despite how interesting the battling phylactery is. Here, here! I voted Xxerlflyyn, just because it's such an interesting, original idea. Anybody who votes for Jannys Shadowgaunt (what a rubbish, cliched-sounding eeevil name) deserves to be unseamed from the nape to the chops by a beholder's mouth-pick cutlass! |
| Scaly One06-07-05, 04:40 AM | So on the minis board part of a post of mine mentions that I have no kobolds in my collection. We bought 3 boxes yesterday and not only is there not a kobold, but I get a celestial dire badger. :rolleyes: I think I have bad karma or something. I wanna a Meepo mini! *Free from the mufler* No despair, dryad defender, Lord Meepo shall prevail!! -Oh, Shut'up!!! Jennys 've got this one! *sounds of spellcasting and falling rocks* An' aftah stomp those stup'd matchez, she'll impale that :censored: little :censored:, infidel, daemming :censored: , :censored: :censored: , traitor with his own scimitarz, undah her pet heelz! humpf... |
| Nrabrujn06-07-05, 07:42 AM | I vote for the Iron Golem, it's the only one you can trip! |
| skyler06-07-05, 08:54 AM | if you can have fallen angles and roug modrons with out somone casting a spell on them why cant a demon or devil become good |
| GraveDigger06-07-05, 10:35 AM | MEEPO (comon people, a kolbold! who can't vote for one)! On the subject of liches though, why wouldn't you want an ironclad drow lich (it's a drow, a lich and an unstoppable killing machine that's basically immune to spells)? Besides, why do people not like evil mechanical spiders? As a DM, I also think that you people need start realizing the RP potential behind this. Why the heck would you vote for a beholder with a parrot? It can't hold a bloody sword! WE ARE NOT PLAYING 2ND ED. and therefore there are no viable swashbuckling ships that aren't sword based! Electric spells do dmg and cast slow on it. |
| fizzbang06-07-05, 11:36 AM | Heck, I'll post Meepo's d20 Modern stats right here, just for kicks... See, I would have gone for a bit of Smart Hero in there, and had him as more of a commander/espianoge expert, myself. Really, if a kobold's going into a one-on-one, head-to-head fight, then he's already made his last mistake. As my friends in the millitary say, "A fair fight means you haven't planned correctly." |
| glitch_wraith06-07-05, 01:20 PM | if you can have fallen angles and roug modrons with out somone casting a spell on them why cant a demon or devil become good Realy, it depends on the DM. If I were running the game, good fiends and evil celestials would be so unlikly players simply wouldn't encounter one. The way I see it, some epic, planes shaking event would have to happen to create such a radicle change. For instance, one of the devils in the Monster Manual are described as possibly being fallen angels. (though I forget there names at the moment.) I would say these were the angelic followers who were cast into the nine hells along with the ruler of hell. (whos name also slips my mind. I should start typing these when I'm near my books). But, this is just how I would run my world. DMs have perfect right to make any kind of monster, and give it whatever alignment they see fit. |
| Wotc_Mark06-07-05, 01:21 PM | Creature Competition: Head-to-Head VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE NOW! For discussion of weeks 5 thru 8 please use this new thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=443004) Feel free to continue discusion of weeks 1 thru 4 in this new thread. Thanx MJ :cool: |
| Kadasbrass06-07-05, 01:22 PM | If a kobold claims to be figthing fair, you have reason to be suspicious. If a Kobold is trying to hold his ground alone, then he is a decoy for a trap of some kind. |