Critical Miss Chart [Archive] - Wizards Community

Critical Miss Chart [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jammin8915
08-02-05, 07:36 PM Couldnt really think of where to post this, so i will post it here, because, after all, you do use it while fighting monsters (yea, thats my logic).

You may say "Tell me, Jammin8915, why in the nine hells would you make a critical miss chart?", well, ill tell you. On a any given roll of 20, you have a pretty good chance of causing double (sometimes triple, and the rare quadruple) damage. On any given roll of 1, you have to (if using book rules) make a dex check of 10. If you fail, O NO! you lose one standard action. i dont think that this is balanced. My fellow DnD friends and i have composed this table that you use on a natural one. We made this because in any given fight, no matter how tough you are, you will make mistakes. We wanted those mistakes to show. And, besides, when your sitting behind the screen, some of the outcomes can be very amsuing in the heat of a battle. The chart goes as such:

Critical Miss Chart (Melee)
% Affect (Effect?, dont know which one to put)
1-50 Drop weapon, lose one standard action, Ref DC 10 to Negate
51-60 Stunned for 1d2 rounds Ref DC 15 to Negate
61-65 Fall Unconcious for 1d4 rounds, Ref DC 20 to negate
66-72 Hit Self, half damage (roll against own AC to confirm)
73-79 Hit Closest Ally, half damage, self if none within range (roll
against their AC to confirm hit)
80-84 Hit Self (roll against own AC to confirm hit)
85-88 Hit Closest Ally, self if none within range (roll against their AC to
confirm hit)
89-92 Hit Self, critical hit (roll against own AC to confirm hit)
93-96 Hit Closest Ally, critical, self if none within range (roll against
their AC to confirm hit)
97-99 Hit target, but weapon breaks.
Weapon Fort save=Dam delt +5 (- total weapon bonus) neg.
100 Roll twice, ignoring rolls of 100

there it is. keep in mind that this is the melee chart, as i have not gotten to making the ranged chart yet. i will get it up once i complete it (if this one gets good reviews)
YasserYasserThreeBagsFull
08-03-05, 03:31 PM My question isn't, "Why in the nine hells would you make a critical miss chart?"
After all, I know a guy who has one that he based on several more factors than you took into account, the only drawback was how long it took him to tell you what happened. That being said, now for my question:

Why in the 666 layers of the Abyss would you post a critical miss chart on the Monsters forum?
Sinaz
08-03-05, 03:54 PM Critical Miss Chart (Melee)
% Affect (Effect?, dont know which one to put)
1-50 Drop weapon, lose one standard action, Ref DC 10 to Negate
51-60 Stunned for 1d2 rounds Ref DC 15 to Negate
61-65 Fall Unconcious for 1d4 rounds, Ref DC 20 to negate
66-72 Hit Self, half damage (roll against own AC to confirm)
73-79 Hit Closest Ally, half damage, self if none within range (roll
against their AC to confirm hit)
80-84 Hit Self (roll against own AC to confirm hit)
85-88 Hit Closest Ally, self if none within range (roll against their AC to
confirm hit)
89-92 Hit Self, critical hit (roll against own AC to confirm hit)
93-96 Hit Closest Ally, critical, self if none within range (roll against
their AC to confirm hit)
97-99 Hit target, but weapon breaks.
Weapon Fort save=Dam delt +5 (- total weapon bonus) neg.
100 Roll twice, ignoring rolls of 100

I still advocate that critical fumbles need to be adjudicated based on what is happening at the moment in combat. With that said, maybe your combat is arbitrary enough to use the chart... then so be it. But it really seems unnecessary... and just... wonky.

For instance, some of these results in my campaign would never fly by the players...

DM: Roll reflex.
P1: um... 17!
DM: You fall unconscious.
P1: what? why?
DM: because I rolled a 63 on your critical fumble.
P1: no I mean... what caused me to go unconscious?
DM: the chart here... um... you just uh... fall unconscious.
P1: did something hit me?
DM: sure. YOU hit you.
P1: HOW?
DM: you're character is a clumsy oaf and whacked himself in the head with his sword!
P1: But I was swinging at this guy's feet... what, is my hand on a ball pivot joint with bad bearings? How did my sword end up near my head?
DM: ummm... I rolled a 63.
P1: shut up.

-or-
DM: Alright, roll your ranged attack again.
P1: 22!
DM: what's your AC?
P1: uh... 18, why?
DM: Your arrow pierces your own heart for um (roll roll) 12 damage!
P1: what? how?
DM: I uh... rolled 90 on your critical fumble.
P1: but how did the arrow manage to go through my own heart? How did it even mange to HIT me?
DM: The chart... it says 90 is a critical hit on yourself.
P1: that doesn't make sense, how the heck did the arrow end up flying at me? Some kind of acme arrow that circumnavigated the globe and got me in the back?
DM: heh... no. you um... you um... notched the arrow backwards and it flew into your heart.
P1: WHAT?!? Do you even know how a bow and arrow works?!?
DM: yeah, you uh... put the arrow on the... look... the damn chart says--
P1: screw your chart, I'm going home.

On the other hand, my friends and I just adjucate critical fumbles based on the action at hand and we all have a great time without the need for a wonky chart. To illustrate:

P1: Grr, this bugbear is ticking me off, I'm just going to skewer him with everything I've got... time to drop this guy.
DM: You exchange glancing blows for a moment, then you knock his shield aside and see a straight corridor to his lungs... roll your attack.
P1: CRAP! 1! Of all the lousy...
DM: Well, roll your reflex (we use reflex instead of DEX.)
P1: great... a big fat 5.
DM: You lunge at the bugbear, but you just didn't have the rhythm in your attack you hoped for. He steps aside almost casually, and you lunge forward off-balance catching the lip of a flagstone with the tip of your sword. It bends, then springs free of your grip clattering on the floor.
P1: craptastic!
DM: and as you stumble forward taking a rather involuntary 5-foot step past the bugbear, he comes around at your backside with his club taking an attack of oppurtunity.
P1: CRAAAAAP!!!

See it just fits... no arguing... and it makes sense. No weird space/time bending twilight zone fumbles.
Jammin8915
08-03-05, 04:45 PM [QUOTE=Sinaz]
DM: Roll reflex.
P1: um... 17!
DM: You fall unconscious.
P1: what? why?
DM: because I rolled a 63 on your critical fumble.
P1: no I mean... what caused me to go unconscious?
DM: the chart here... um... you just uh... fall unconscious.
P1: did something hit me?
DM: sure. YOU hit you.
P1: HOW?
DM: you're character is a clumsy oaf and whacked himself in the head with his sword!
P1: But I was swinging at this guy's feet... what, is my hand on a ball pivot joint with bad bearings? How did my sword end up near my head?
DM: ummm... I rolled a 63.
P1: shut up.

-or-
DM: Alright, roll your ranged attack again.
P1: 22!
DM: what's your AC?
P1: uh... 18, why?
DM: Your arrow pierces your own heart for um (roll roll) 12 damage!
P1: what? how?
DM: I uh... rolled 90 on your critical fumble.
P1: but how did the arrow manage to go through my own heart? How did it even mange to HIT me?
DM: The chart... it says 90 is a critical hit on yourself.
P1: that doesn't make sense, how the heck did the arrow end up flying at me? Some kind of acme arrow that circumnavigated the globe and got me in the back?
DM: heh... no. you um... you um... notched the arrow backwards and it flew into your heart.
P1: WHAT?!? Do you even know how a bow and arrow works?!?
DM: yeah, you uh... put the arrow on the... look... the damn chart says--
P1: screw your chart, I'm going home.

i can see your point, but, i did this for a long time. this leads to using the same ideas over and over (ie falling unconcious) and the dm saying "because i said so" this leads to a lot of tension between the dm and the players, and eventually makes them very mad. this is why i came up with the chart. and, besides, it is a fast quick reference.
Jammin8915
08-03-05, 04:48 PM [QUOTE=

Why in the 666 layers of the Abyss would you post a critical miss chart on the Monsters forum?[/QUOTE]

i said it plain and simple: i couldnt think of where to put it. and besides, you use it when you are fighting monsters.

ps, i cant figure out how to take just part of the quote, so it is messed up like this.
Thanar
08-03-05, 04:54 PM Dont u think it is a little unfair that u can get a critical on yourself explaint to me how that is even possible :thinks:
Sinaz
08-03-05, 04:57 PM i can see your point, but, i did this for a long time. this leads to using the same ideas over and over (ie falling unconcious) and the dm saying "because i said so" this leads to a lot of tension between the dm and the players, and eventually makes them very mad. this is why i came up with the chart. and, besides, it is a fast quick reference.

Like I said, if it works for you guys, then roll with it. I'd be lynched if I tried using this on my players.

And FYI: to display part of a quote, you just have to add the end quote tag some where in the middle of the quote and delete the rest... And check for typos in the tags... and if all else fails, press the "Close All Tags" button on the upper left of the post dialog.

cheers!

Oh, P.S. - just for the record... what exactly do you guys say when roleplaying someone stabbing or shooting themselves, or just randomly falling unconscious? It just seems sooo silly and arbitrary to me.
Sinaz
08-03-05, 04:58 PM Dont u think it is a little unfair that u can get a critical on yourself explaint to me how that is even possible :thinks:

I thought I explained it...

You either need to notch your arrow backwards, or draw your sword backwards so the pointy end is aiming at yourself! DUH! :rolleyes:
Thanar
08-03-05, 05:01 PM A critical is when you hit an enemy in a vital spot.how can a character accidentally hit himself in a vital spot especially if they have like a greatsword or a full blade
Thanar
08-03-05, 05:03 PM I thought I explained it...

You either need to notch your arrow backwards, or draw your sword backwards so the pointy end is aiming at yourself! DUH! :rolleyes:

Yes I got that part but how would a character let himself do that while in combat
Sinaz
08-03-05, 05:04 PM Yes I got that part but how would a character let himself do that while in combat

I was being facetious and trying to illustrate as a joke how preposterous I find this guy's chart to be.
Thanar
08-03-05, 05:08 PM I know. i was trying to prove that it doesnt work as well.my dm tried this type of thing once we all had a bad stroke of luck one day and killed each other off(it was an evil campaign)
Sinaz
08-03-05, 05:47 PM alright alright...

let me say something more constructive.

Your critical fumbles are entirely to chaotically dangerous.

The RAW variant on critical fumbles paraphrases like this:

... character should probably lose a turn as he regains balance, picks up a dropped weapon, clears his head, steadies himslef, or whatever.

It doesn't say anything about the players managing to sneak attack themselves or slipping thier sword into thier friend's kidney or any such malarchy.

So... I am going to make a new chart for your consideration that holds a little more true to the idea of a critical fumble.

First...

If you're only going to have roughly seven different results, there's no need to use a percentile die.

VARIANT: Critical Miss/Fumble Chart
Roll a D4 and apply the result from the appropriate chart:

Melee:
1: Miss, Weapon fumbled from grip
2: Miss, and take a 5-foot step past enemy, provokes AoO
3: Miss, off balanced, -2 to attack rolls and AC. Requires a partial action to regain balance.
4: Miss, fallen prone

Ranged:
1: Miss, weapon fumbled (dagger slipped from grip before being thrown; bolt, arrow, stone, etc. fouled requiring a reload.)
2: Miss, ammo fumbled (quarrel of arrows or bolts spilled on the ground, daggers slipped from bandolier, etc.)
3: Miss, broken string (some part of the tension system of a bow or sling has snapped requiring minor repair... or a missed dagger struck a rigid object and shattered.)
4: Miss, overextend (some muscle didn't take the release in tension well, -2 to ranged attacks. Requires a partial action to 'shake it off.')

This is mostly a KISS solution to a problem that shouldn't really exist.
Jammin8915
08-10-05, 08:00 PM i guess nobody likes it... nvm, ill keep it to my self.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jammin8915 08-02-05, 07:36 PM	Couldnt really think of where to post this, so i will post it here, because, after all, you do use it while fighting monsters (yea, thats my logic). You may say "Tell me, Jammin8915, why in the nine hells would you make a critical miss chart?", well, ill tell you. On a any given roll of 20, you have a pretty good chance of causing double (sometimes triple, and the rare quadruple) damage. On any given roll of 1, you have to (if using book rules) make a dex check of 10. If you fail, O NO! you lose one standard action. i dont think that this is balanced. My fellow DnD friends and i have composed this table that you use on a natural one. We made this because in any given fight, no matter how tough you are, you will make mistakes. We wanted those mistakes to show. And, besides, when your sitting behind the screen, some of the outcomes can be very amsuing in the heat of a battle. The chart goes as such: Critical Miss Chart (Melee) % Affect (Effect?, dont know which one to put) 1-50 Drop weapon, lose one standard action, Ref DC 10 to Negate 51-60 Stunned for 1d2 rounds Ref DC 15 to Negate 61-65 Fall Unconcious for 1d4 rounds, Ref DC 20 to negate 66-72 Hit Self, half damage (roll against own AC to confirm) 73-79 Hit Closest Ally, half damage, self if none within range (roll against their AC to confirm hit) 80-84 Hit Self (roll against own AC to confirm hit) 85-88 Hit Closest Ally, self if none within range (roll against their AC to confirm hit) 89-92 Hit Self, critical hit (roll against own AC to confirm hit) 93-96 Hit Closest Ally, critical, self if none within range (roll against their AC to confirm hit) 97-99 Hit target, but weapon breaks. Weapon Fort save=Dam delt +5 (- total weapon bonus) neg. 100 Roll twice, ignoring rolls of 100 there it is. keep in mind that this is the melee chart, as i have not gotten to making the ranged chart yet. i will get it up once i complete it (if this one gets good reviews)
YasserYasserThreeBagsFull 08-03-05, 03:31 PM	My question isn't, "Why in the nine hells would you make a critical miss chart?" After all, I know a guy who has one that he based on several more factors than you took into account, the only drawback was how long it took him to tell you what happened. That being said, now for my question: Why in the 666 layers of the Abyss would you post a critical miss chart on the Monsters forum?
Sinaz 08-03-05, 03:54 PM	Critical Miss Chart (Melee) % Affect (Effect?, dont know which one to put) 1-50 Drop weapon, lose one standard action, Ref DC 10 to Negate 51-60 Stunned for 1d2 rounds Ref DC 15 to Negate 61-65 Fall Unconcious for 1d4 rounds, Ref DC 20 to negate 66-72 Hit Self, half damage (roll against own AC to confirm) 73-79 Hit Closest Ally, half damage, self if none within range (roll against their AC to confirm hit) 80-84 Hit Self (roll against own AC to confirm hit) 85-88 Hit Closest Ally, self if none within range (roll against their AC to confirm hit) 89-92 Hit Self, critical hit (roll against own AC to confirm hit) 93-96 Hit Closest Ally, critical, self if none within range (roll against their AC to confirm hit) 97-99 Hit target, but weapon breaks. Weapon Fort save=Dam delt +5 (- total weapon bonus) neg. 100 Roll twice, ignoring rolls of 100 I still advocate that critical fumbles need to be adjudicated based on what is happening at the moment in combat. With that said, maybe your combat is arbitrary enough to use the chart... then so be it. But it really seems unnecessary... and just... wonky. For instance, some of these results in my campaign would never fly by the players... DM: Roll reflex. P1: um... 17! DM: You fall unconscious. P1: what? why? DM: because I rolled a 63 on your critical fumble. P1: no I mean... what caused me to go unconscious? DM: the chart here... um... you just uh... fall unconscious. P1: did something hit me? DM: sure. YOU hit you. P1: HOW? DM: you're character is a clumsy oaf and whacked himself in the head with his sword! P1: But I was swinging at this guy's feet... what, is my hand on a ball pivot joint with bad bearings? How did my sword end up near my head? DM: ummm... I rolled a 63. P1: shut up. -or- DM: Alright, roll your ranged attack again. P1: 22! DM: what's your AC? P1: uh... 18, why? DM: Your arrow pierces your own heart for um (roll roll) 12 damage! P1: what? how? DM: I uh... rolled 90 on your critical fumble. P1: but how did the arrow manage to go through my own heart? How did it even mange to HIT me? DM: The chart... it says 90 is a critical hit on yourself. P1: that doesn't make sense, how the heck did the arrow end up flying at me? Some kind of acme arrow that circumnavigated the globe and got me in the back? DM: heh... no. you um... you um... notched the arrow backwards and it flew into your heart. P1: WHAT?!? Do you even know how a bow and arrow works?!? DM: yeah, you uh... put the arrow on the... look... the damn chart says-- P1: screw your chart, I'm going home. On the other hand, my friends and I just adjucate critical fumbles based on the action at hand and we all have a great time without the need for a wonky chart. To illustrate: P1: Grr, this bugbear is ticking me off, I'm just going to skewer him with everything I've got... time to drop this guy. DM: You exchange glancing blows for a moment, then you knock his shield aside and see a straight corridor to his lungs... roll your attack. P1: CRAP! 1! Of all the lousy... DM: Well, roll your reflex (we use reflex instead of DEX.) P1: great... a big fat 5. DM: You lunge at the bugbear, but you just didn't have the rhythm in your attack you hoped for. He steps aside almost casually, and you lunge forward off-balance catching the lip of a flagstone with the tip of your sword. It bends, then springs free of your grip clattering on the floor. P1: craptastic! DM: and as you stumble forward taking a rather involuntary 5-foot step past the bugbear, he comes around at your backside with his club taking an attack of oppurtunity. P1: CRAAAAAP!!! See it just fits... no arguing... and it makes sense. No weird space/time bending twilight zone fumbles.
Jammin8915 08-03-05, 04:45 PM	[QUOTE=Sinaz] DM: Roll reflex. P1: um... 17! DM: You fall unconscious. P1: what? why? DM: because I rolled a 63 on your critical fumble. P1: no I mean... what caused me to go unconscious? DM: the chart here... um... you just uh... fall unconscious. P1: did something hit me? DM: sure. YOU hit you. P1: HOW? DM: you're character is a clumsy oaf and whacked himself in the head with his sword! P1: But I was swinging at this guy's feet... what, is my hand on a ball pivot joint with bad bearings? How did my sword end up near my head? DM: ummm... I rolled a 63. P1: shut up. -or- DM: Alright, roll your ranged attack again. P1: 22! DM: what's your AC? P1: uh... 18, why? DM: Your arrow pierces your own heart for um (roll roll) 12 damage! P1: what? how? DM: I uh... rolled 90 on your critical fumble. P1: but how did the arrow manage to go through my own heart? How did it even mange to HIT me? DM: The chart... it says 90 is a critical hit on yourself. P1: that doesn't make sense, how the heck did the arrow end up flying at me? Some kind of acme arrow that circumnavigated the globe and got me in the back? DM: heh... no. you um... you um... notched the arrow backwards and it flew into your heart. P1: WHAT?!? Do you even know how a bow and arrow works?!? DM: yeah, you uh... put the arrow on the... look... the damn chart says-- P1: screw your chart, I'm going home. i can see your point, but, i did this for a long time. this leads to using the same ideas over and over (ie falling unconcious) and the dm saying "because i said so" this leads to a lot of tension between the dm and the players, and eventually makes them very mad. this is why i came up with the chart. and, besides, it is a fast quick reference.
Jammin8915 08-03-05, 04:48 PM	[QUOTE= Why in the 666 layers of the Abyss would you post a critical miss chart on the Monsters forum?[/QUOTE] i said it plain and simple: i couldnt think of where to put it. and besides, you use it when you are fighting monsters. ps, i cant figure out how to take just part of the quote, so it is messed up like this.
Thanar 08-03-05, 04:54 PM	Dont u think it is a little unfair that u can get a critical on yourself explaint to me how that is even possible :thinks:
Sinaz 08-03-05, 04:57 PM	i can see your point, but, i did this for a long time. this leads to using the same ideas over and over (ie falling unconcious) and the dm saying "because i said so" this leads to a lot of tension between the dm and the players, and eventually makes them very mad. this is why i came up with the chart. and, besides, it is a fast quick reference. Like I said, if it works for you guys, then roll with it. I'd be lynched if I tried using this on my players. And FYI: to display part of a quote, you just have to add the end quote tag some where in the middle of the quote and delete the rest... And check for typos in the tags... and if all else fails, press the "Close All Tags" button on the upper left of the post dialog. cheers! Oh, P.S. - just for the record... what exactly do you guys say when roleplaying someone stabbing or shooting themselves, or just randomly falling unconscious? It just seems sooo silly and arbitrary to me.
Sinaz 08-03-05, 04:58 PM	Dont u think it is a little unfair that u can get a critical on yourself explaint to me how that is even possible :thinks: I thought I explained it... You either need to notch your arrow backwards, or draw your sword backwards so the pointy end is aiming at yourself! DUH! :rolleyes:
Thanar 08-03-05, 05:01 PM	A critical is when you hit an enemy in a vital spot.how can a character accidentally hit himself in a vital spot especially if they have like a greatsword or a full blade
Thanar 08-03-05, 05:03 PM	I thought I explained it... You either need to notch your arrow backwards, or draw your sword backwards so the pointy end is aiming at yourself! DUH! :rolleyes: Yes I got that part but how would a character let himself do that while in combat
Sinaz 08-03-05, 05:04 PM	Yes I got that part but how would a character let himself do that while in combat I was being facetious and trying to illustrate as a joke how preposterous I find this guy's chart to be.
Thanar 08-03-05, 05:08 PM	I know. i was trying to prove that it doesnt work as well.my dm tried this type of thing once we all had a bad stroke of luck one day and killed each other off(it was an evil campaign)
Sinaz 08-03-05, 05:47 PM	alright alright... let me say something more constructive. Your critical fumbles are entirely to chaotically dangerous. The RAW variant on critical fumbles paraphrases like this: ... character should probably lose a turn as he regains balance, picks up a dropped weapon, clears his head, steadies himslef, or whatever. It doesn't say anything about the players managing to sneak attack themselves or slipping thier sword into thier friend's kidney or any such malarchy. So... I am going to make a new chart for your consideration that holds a little more true to the idea of a critical fumble. First... If you're only going to have roughly seven different results, there's no need to use a percentile die. VARIANT: Critical Miss/Fumble Chart Roll a D4 and apply the result from the appropriate chart: Melee: 1: Miss, Weapon fumbled from grip 2: Miss, and take a 5-foot step past enemy, provokes AoO 3: Miss, off balanced, -2 to attack rolls and AC. Requires a partial action to regain balance. 4: Miss, fallen prone Ranged: 1: Miss, weapon fumbled (dagger slipped from grip before being thrown; bolt, arrow, stone, etc. fouled requiring a reload.) 2: Miss, ammo fumbled (quarrel of arrows or bolts spilled on the ground, daggers slipped from bandolier, etc.) 3: Miss, broken string (some part of the tension system of a bow or sling has snapped requiring minor repair... or a missed dagger struck a rigid object and shattered.) 4: Miss, overextend (some muscle didn't take the release in tension well, -2 to ranged attacks. Requires a partial action to 'shake it off.') This is mostly a KISS solution to a problem that shouldn't really exist.
Jammin8915 08-10-05, 08:00 PM	i guess nobody likes it... nvm, ill keep it to my self.