Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Polybius 11-29-07, 07:42 PM	I may be missing something, but... Crocodile, 3HD, Int 1, therefore 6 skill points. Hide +7: Skill Focus (Hide) +3, Dex 12 +1 = +4, therefore 3 ranks Listen +4: Alertness +2, Wis 12 +1 = +3, therefore 1 rank Spot +4: Alertness +2, Wis 12 +1 = +3, therefore 1 rank Swim +12: Str 19 +4, racial +8 = +12, therefore 0 ranks TOTAL: 5 ranks Are crocodiles being stitched for 1 skill point? Shouldn't they have, say, Hide +8? While we're on crocs - they're 11-12ft long, and yet Medium...?
Dracomortis 11-29-07, 08:03 PM	Your math is correct - crocodiles are in fact missing one skill point. I also noticed that crocodiles were the wrong size, so I came up with my own stats and use those in the Monster Manual to describe other crocodilians such as the smaller species of caiman. Here they are, in case you're interested. Crocodile, Large Large Animal Hit Dice: 4d8+16 (34 hp) Initiative: +0 Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), swim 30 ft. Armor Class: 14 (–1 size, +5 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 14 Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+12 Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d10+7) or tail slap +7 melee (1d12+7) Full Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d10+7) or tail slap +7 melee (1d12+7) Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Improved grab Special Qualities: Hold breath, low-light vision Saves: Fort +8, Ref +4, Will +2 Abilities: Str 21, Dex 10, Con 19, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2 Skills: Hide +4*, Listen +4, Spot +4, Swim +13 Feats: Alertness, Skill Focus (Hide) Environment: Warm marshes Organization: Solitary or colony (6–11) Challenge Rating: 3 Treasure: None Alignment: Always true neutral Advancement: 5–6 HD (Large) Level Adjustment: — The statistics presented here describe a large crocodilian about 10–15 feet in length. The statistics in the Monster Manual describe a smaller crocodile such as the caiman. Combat Large crocodiles use the same tactics as their smaller cousins. Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a large crocodile must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, the crocodile establishes a hold on the opponent with its mouth and drags it into deep water, attempting to pin it to the bottom. Hold Breath (Ex): A large crocodile can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 x its Constitution score before it risks drowning. Skills: A large crocodile has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line. *A large crocodile gains a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks when in the water. Further, a large crocodile can lie in the water with only its eyes and nostrils showing, gaining a +10 cover bonus on Hide checks.
Polybius 11-29-07, 08:17 PM	Your math is correct - crocodiles are in fact missing one skill point. I also noticed that crocodiles were the wrong size, so I came up with my own stats and use those in the Monster Manual to describe other crocodilians such as the smaller species of caiman. Here they are, in case you're interested. Thanks - for the nice large croc, too. Sometimes it's nice to know you're not going insane over the numbers. I'm actually noticing stuff like this plaguing the Animals section. I'm putting together a little supplement for my players to make animal companions, mounts, and familiars easier to figure out, and... Well, along with the croc, the giant croc seems to suffer from the same malady, and the riding dog appears to overshoot its quota. Grrr!
Dracomortis 11-29-07, 08:33 PM	Thanks - for the nice large croc, too. Sometimes it's nice to know you're not going insane over the numbers. I'm actually noticing stuff like this plaguing the Animals section. I'm putting together a little supplement for my players to make animal companions, mounts, and familiars easier to figure out, and... Well, along with the croc, the giant croc seems to suffer from the same malady, and the riding dog appears to overshoot its quota. Grrr! Aye - I think the most common mistake I've found is the large number of animals (especially the smaller ones) that have Weapon Finesse but don't have the requisite +1 base attack bonus to take it. Missing or overused skill points are another big offender. It always seemed to me that the animals were more of an afterthought.
Polybius 11-29-07, 09:05 PM	Aye - I think the most common mistake I've found is the large number of animals (especially the smaller ones) that have Weapon Finesse but don't have the requisite +1 base attack bonus to take it. Missing or overused skill points are another big offender. It always seemed to me that the animals were more of an afterthought. The Weapon Finesse issue is errata'd - those that lack +1 BAB now get Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, and get another feat to replace their feat slot (e.g., owls get Alertness). I have half a feeling that the skill point issues crept in from 3.0 (i.e., the animals weren't 3.5d properly). But I can't for the life of me remember how all that EHD nonsense worked, and really have no care to re-learn it just to check. The errata seems to largely ignore animals, too. With the exception of the WF issue, they are just...forgotten. Even for things like the improved bonus leopards get to Hide in undergrowth (in SRD, not in MM). I think you're right with your "afterthought" assessment. The annoying bit is, IMO, that the animals section is the one that players refer to most often (for familiars and the like) - and not every player is overly familiar with monster stats. So, I bet most of the owl familiars out there are just plain wrong. Ah well.