Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zargonic 02-21-04, 12:41 PM	I'm not sure if I did all of this correctly, so any of you monster experts who can help me with the math would be appreciated. Any other input or comments are appreciated as well. Dark Sorrow Medium sized Monstrous Humanoid Hit Dice: 10d8 + 20 (65 hp) Initiative: +11 (+7 Dex, +4 Imp. Init.) Speed: 30 ft (90 ft flying while incorporeal) AC: 18 (+7 Dex, +5 Blue Flame) Attacks: +1 flaming ghost touch Scythe +19/+14 (+10 BAB, +7 dex, +1 WF, +1 weapons enhancement) Damage: +1 flaming ghost touch scythe (2d6+2+1d6 fire, 20 x4 critical) Face/Reach: 5 ft/5ft Special Attacks: Blue Flame Weapons, Blue Lance, Life Exodus, Spell-Like Abilities Special Qualities: Blindsight 60ft; Blue Flame; DR 5/-; Immunity to fire, ice, and mind-influencing effects; True Ghostform, Watching the Heart Saves: Fort +5, Ref +14, Will +13 Abilities: Str 13, Dex 24, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 22, Cha 24 Skills: Diplomacy +20, Gather Information +20, Heal +16, Listen +9, Search +5, Sense Motive +19, Spot +8 Feats: Ability Focus (Blue Lance), Improved Initiative, Weapons Finesse (Blue Flame Weapons), Weapons Focus (Blue Flame Weapons), Power Attack, Cleave Environment: anywhere Organization: usually solitary Challenge Rating: 15 Treasure: a single sapphire and obsidian piece, each worth 1000gp Alignment: always neutral good Advancement: 10+ (Medium) Level Adjustment: - A tall dark humanoid woman floats in front of you. Next to her floats a blue flame. Her eyes glow gently and she soothes you with a silky voice as she touches the flame to your forehead. You find that you feel much better. Dark Sorrows are creatures born of extreme sorrow. Legend has it that they were born when a great war wiped out many soldiers, driving their wives to sorrow. As their sorrow grew, it coalesced into an actual being, either by divine intervention or arcane mishap. They seem similar to the undead because of their ability to pass through walls and the fact that they wear all black, but in actuality, they are in existence to relieve sorrow by taking it from other creatures. This blue flame will grow larger as they relieve more and more sorrows. It is unknown whether they breed, but it is sure that new Sorrows have been seen. They will get along just fine with most beings that know of their purpose, and will occasionally help a being to solve a problem that is currently causing them grief. They actually get along quite famously with fey because of their ability to take away sorrow. Sorrows, while usually solitary, know the value of teamwork, and will occasionally band together to protect an area from a particularly malicious being (usually some sort of blackguard or evil dragon). Dark Sorrows appear as a medium sized human female wearing an elegant black dress and wearing a dark veil over her head. Each sorrow wears something different, and they have been known to ask for a new (black) dress in exchange for relieving grief. Their eyes glow a gentle blue, and not many have seen the rest of their faces. Near them is always a blue flame that floats not far from them. It does not harm anyone and is also incorporeal. However, when they are threatened, or they sense a being nearby causing pain and grief, their true aspect is revealed. Their veils shorten into obsidian circlets, revealing their face, a pale, elegant, and yet eerily beautiful, with the same glowing blue eyes and long flowing black hair. Their blue flames turn into a tremendous weapon along with two shields on either side, all made of glowing blue fire. COMBAT A Dark Sorrow will start combat by giving an opponent a chance to stop its activities and pay penance for its deed. If the creature refuses, the Sorrow will hammer them with their spell-like abilities until opponent either closes in or attempts to flee. Then the Sorrow will chase after them and engage in melee, trying to get them to stop with one of their many tactics. Any foe that surrenders is not harmed, but the Sorrow will try to get them to repent. Blue Flame Weapons (su): the Sorrow’s weapons always a scythe made of its Blue Flame, which is a +1 flaming ghost touch scythe. The scythe is also able to either deal lethal or non-lethal damage as the Sorrow wills, at no penalty. Since the shape of the weapon doesn’t actually matter, it still deals normal damage to all creatures that are immune to slashing or piercing damage. The Blue Flame also forms a floating shield on either side of the Sorrow that gives it 1/2 cover, and a deflection bonus of +5 on all sides. Blue Lance (sp): The sorrow is able to shoot a blue bolt extracted from the all the sorrow it’s gathered from its eyes once per turn as a free action. This bolt only needs a ranged touch attack to hit any target within 30ft, and deals 1d6+3 fire damage (this damage may be made non-lethal at the Sorrow’s will). Anyone struck by the bolt also must make a will save DC 23 (10+1/2 HD + wis mod +ability focus) or be so overtaken by it’s repentance for the grief that it has caused on other beings that it will fall down and be able to do anything but defend itself. Life Exodus (su): Anyone struck by any of the Sorrow's attacks may be the target of Life Exodus. The Sorrow and the target will average life points so that they each have equal current HP (simply, add their durrent hp to each other and then divide among them equally). Any HP above the Sorrow's life total will be gained as temporary hit points. The target will only be able to go up to the normal maximum. Spell-like Abilities: At will – Dancing Lights, True Strike, Unseen Servant, Sleep (DC 17), Continuous Flame, Detect thoughts, Crawling Darkness, and Fire Orb (DC 20). 3/Day – Charm Person (DC 17) and Daze monster(DC 18). 1/day –Mind Fog (DC 21). Caster level 10th, Spell DCs are Wisdom based. Blue Flame: The Sorrow’s Blue Flame has quite a few non-combat functions, as detailed below. Relieve Sorrow (ex): The Sorrow can touch the flame to a being’s mind and relieve them of all non-beneficial Mind-affecting effects (such as an Emotion (Despair)), and real emotions that are harmful (such as envy, hate, or sadness). For the next hour, the target will be protected against any mind-affecting effect. This is a standard action. Every 10 times the Sorrow uses this ability, she gains 1 HD and all associated bonuses. In addition, she gets a +1 to the following things: Blue Lance save DC, dexterity, wisdom, and charisma. Calming (su): The blue flame is calming and automatically casts an emotion (friendship) spell on anyone who looks upon it.(Use the save DC as if it were one of the Sorrow's spell-like abilities) True Ghostform (sp): The Sorrow is under the effects of a Ghostform spell at all times, but her ability differs as following: her flight speed is three times her normal speed, and if dispelled, the ghostform will resume next round automatically. Watching the Heart (su): The Sorrow is able to read emotions simply by looking at someone. Most people normally do not show up noticeably unless they have strong emotions, either caused by a traumatic event or a spell. If someone is in grief or despair, they will glow blue (to the Sorrow). This is how a sorrow finds people in need of it’s services.
gradea 02-21-04, 02:11 PM	mabye you could make them Deathless and give them the Incorporial subtype? Other then that i like the concept. Now lets compair this to another CR 15 creature, the 12 headed lernaean pyro or cryo hydra. Hit Dice: Hydra has 2 more HD, but about TWICE as many hit points Initiative: Sorrow by 10 Speed: Sorrow is a little faster (or signifigently faster while flying incorporialy) AC: Sorrow, but not by much Attacks: The sorrow may have a higher BAB but not by too much, and the hydra can make 12 attacks to her 1. Damage: Hydra, 11.5 average damage to 12.5 with an x4 critical, still, a hydras 12 attacks gives it far more damage potential Face/Reach: Hydra Special Attacks: the Hydra can fire a 36d6 elemental blast with a 21 DC save, the blue flame, offencivly, isnt that impressive, but the blue lance is, especialy since you didnt mention a duration so they fall down perminintly, making it a death effect basicly, and the rest of the abillities arent exactly world stopers (PS id never do true strike at will), so im going to go with the hydra Special Qualities: The Sorrows ghost form quality is fairly useful, though mitigated at this level (everyone should have a ghost touch weapon), but the lernaean hydra is basicly invincable unless you can fire or acid its neck stump (not overly hard if the group has a wizard and all fight togeather), so i ultimatly go with the hydra Saves: Hydra has a much better fort save (at this level death effects apear) but the sorrow has supperior will and ref saves (while ref doesnt mean to much if thiers only one, a good will can be quite important) So, in the end, cool creature, knock down the CR a point or two though, at least
zargonic 02-21-04, 08:05 PM	mabye you could make them Deathless and give them the Incorporial subtype? Other then that i like the concept. Ummm not actually sure what the deathless template is, but if she's permanently incorpreal, isnt it impossible for her to enter an AMS? Now lets compair this to another CR 15 creature, the 12 headed lernaean pyro or cryo hydra. Hit Dice: Hydra has 2 more HD, but about TWICE as many hit points I dont think this needs more HP, just because she's not a combat monster, but probably going to be more like the elemental weirds - a plot device. Initiative: Sorrow by 10 Speed: Sorrow is a little faster (or signifigently faster while flying incorporialy) AC: Sorrow, but not by much heh. Attacks: The sorrow may have a higher BAB but not by too much, and the hydra can make 12 attacks to her 1. Damage: Hydra, 11.5 average damage to 12.5 with an x4 critical, still, a hydras 12 attacks gives it far more damage potential Face/Reach: Hydra Special Attacks: the Hydra can fire a 36d6 elemental blast with a 21 DC save, the blue flame, offencivly, isnt that impressive, but the blue lance is, especialy since you didnt mention a duration so they fall down perminintly, making it a death effect basicly, and the rest of the abillities arent exactly world stopers (PS id never do true strike at will), so im going to go with the hydra Special Qualities: The Sorrows ghost form quality is fairly useful, though mitigated at this level (everyone should have a ghost touch weapon), but the lernaean hydra is basicly invincable unless you can fire or acid its neck stump (not overly hard if the group has a wizard and all fight togeather), so i ultimatly go with the hydra Saves: Hydra has a much better fort save (at this level death effects apear) but the sorrow has supperior will and ref saves (while ref doesnt mean to much if thiers only one, a good will can be quite important) Okay,.... again, she's not supposed to be a combat monster, so I didnt power her up alot. Another problem is probably that I come from the PrC board, where giving out huge powers is usually frowned upon. However, i understand that monsters should be powered up. let's look at all the problems: ~BAB - for monstrous humanoids, it's a fighter BAB... so that makes it +10, Since she is wielding a weapon, doesnt that mean she makes two attacks per round if she goes into full attack? ~AC - the hydra has a huge natural bonus, which the Sorrow has none of. I sort of offset that by making her Blue Flame give a bonus to AC... Should this be increased? ~Blue Lance - it was supposed to be until the Sorrow releases them from the effects, I'll change that. But yea she's supposed to try to end fighting/tormenting/looting/burning/murdering as fast as she can with this. ~Blue Flame/damage - So then what should I do about this? I didnt want to make her unnaturally stong, seeing as to she doenst seem like a vicious beast, and i have no other way to pump up the damage without giving some ridiculous bonus (i mean, a balor's sword and whip are both only a +1). Another thing I might do is just add some ability. I'm going to up shield coverage also. ~Other things: I'm going to make it so that relieve sorrow will give the Sorrow more than just HD, maybe some stat points and AC. I need to add some sort of offensive ability, i'll see what i can cook up. So, in the end, cool creature, knock down the CR a point or two though, at least thanks for the time! i did try hard to make it right.
zargonic 02-21-04, 08:33 PM	A few ideas for offensive abilities.... Crystalizing strike: Anyone subject to the critical strike of a Sorrow's weapon will (when she is dealing lethal damage), in addition to damage, be subject to a crystalizing strike. The target must make a will save DC equal to damage dealt or be turned entirely to crystal (either sapphire or obsidian). Most pieces are too small or fragmented to be useful, however, a number of perfectly round victim's HD, each worth 1000 GP, will be produced. They immediately fly to the sorrow's hand, however the sorrow usually gives them to someone in need (although they have been known to make jewelry out of it also). Flame Wave Weapon: the Sorrow's weapon is able to project damage and force quite a distance away. This enables it to grant an extra 10 feet of reach. yes? no? maybe so? anyone's input appreciated.
zargonic 02-22-04, 03:12 PM	shameless :bump:
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 02-22-04, 09:41 PM	What size is it? And, it should have two attacks with its scythe, not one.
zargonic 02-23-04, 06:43 PM	Aha... yes... those minor details... I'll get cracking... Why thank you :) Anyone else got input on the combat abilities?
l3lasphemy 02-23-04, 06:54 PM	I like it...the only thing (and it's not really a bad thing, just interesting) is how...her flame can take sorrow from people...and then be used to harm her enemies ( in the case of her special attacks and stuff) Cool though! Nice job.
zargonic 02-24-04, 10:40 PM	Thank you 13lasphemy I dont know if there are any more balance errors, but i guess i'll just wait to see if there are any more.
frozen-phoenix-feathers 02-27-04, 10:17 AM	This is great! Just the kind of thing I needed for a plot I had in mind. Could the Sorrow's flame be called the flame of hope? How does a sorrow's flame extract the sorrow from someone? Thanks a milion !!!
zargonic 02-28-04, 09:27 AM	Well, I suppose that a Sorrow's flame could be called flame of hope, but really it's multipurpose, so you could change that for your campaign. As to how she extracts sorrow from someone, it's something like how a mind flayer extracts brains, except not as violent and it doesnt involve her grappling the person and biting them to get it (and they wont be dead). They simply touch the flame to someone's forehead who's willing to lose those emotions, and voila!... The Sorrow naturally "feeds" off of emotions, although they actually dont need anything to live. At any rate, i'm happy you found something that will help with your plot, happy gaming! :)
gradea 02-28-04, 11:36 AM	"Okay,.... again, she's not supposed to be a combat monster" then give her a low CR! shesh...
zargonic 02-29-04, 11:44 PM	Hey, the elemental weirds are "plot devices" just like Sorrows are, and they happen to have CR 12 with alot more abilities.... the only thing that isnt that great about them is that they are completely immobile. I'm just saying that non-combat monsters can still have agood CR. Besides as having been both DM and player in the past, i know that plot devices have been killed or ignored just for the fun of it. With these abilities i was hoping that the PC's would think twice before trying to screw around with this gal. Thank you anyways for your thought tho!