Deadliest CR14 monster published? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Deadliest CR14 monster published? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
b3snyder
10-22-07, 01:53 PM Our campaign has taken a twist, and we find ourselves able to send any single creature, up to CR14, against a competing party (all NPC, played by the DM).

We do not know what they are (races or classes), but we believe they are the same levels as us (levels 12-13). There are 5 of them (as there are 5 of us), and are most likely Evil in alignment. They also have roughly 20 minions with PC class levels, upto level 5. There may also be commoners near or around their tower.

*Update* We did find out that one of the five high levels is a Pixie.

The creature will appear within 5 miles of the enemy's tower, and must use its own intelligence and abilities to locate them and attack. This means the creature must be intelligent. The creature must be from a published WOTC book and cannot have any templates or class levels (must be as printed).

We can cast spells on it before we send it out, and give it general instructions which it will attempt to follow as best it can. Once it is gone we cannot communicate or assist in any way.

Please list the creatures name, book it is from, why you think it is so dangerous, and any tips on what we should tell it before we send it out.

Our next session is in two weeks, and any help is appreciated.

To get started, we are considering the Astral Deva (Angel) from the Monster Manual. It is fast and can fly. DR10/evil. SR30. Immune to acid and cold. Resistance 10 to electricity and fire. Good spell like abilities. Protective aura that acts like a circle against evil and lesser globe of invulnerability. AC is good but not exceptional. Melee offense ability is also good but not exceptional. Change shape ability into any small or medium humanoid. We would tell it to use it's hide and move siliently skills (and invisibility spell-like ability) to approach, and to only attack single or small groups. If it is being overwhelmed, to retreat and use hit and run tacticts.
Naderion
10-22-07, 02:11 PM The idea of CR is, that all CR 14 creatures are equally dangerous.

The specifications you gave are both very generic, but also surprisingly specific? Has the dm allready said how many there are and of which level? If not, it could really be any combination of everything. And even if he did, for whatever reason, when using class levels, they could be any creature from CR 1/3 to CR 12.
Talisman
10-22-07, 03:32 PM Ragewalker, MM3. A 22-HD fey with DR 10/cold iron, fast healing 5, SR 26, fights with a +5 spiked chain. Anyone within 10' has to make a DC 28 (!) Will save or go nuts and attack everything and anything. It can also rebuke living spells, so if you can somehow get a few of those...

The aura of bloodthirstiness will neatly take care of the hordes of followers as they slaughter each other. As living embodiments of war, ragewalkers exist to kill people. Ragewalkers also have decent SLAs (quickened blade barrier, anyone?) Oh, and they reflect missile attacks :D

Buff the beastie out with all the defensive/mobility/combat enhancers you have. Give it potions if possible (invisibility, haste etc.) Order it to use hit-and-run attacks, retreating whenever it's reduced below 2/3 of its hit points to allow it to heal (fast healing!).

The weak point of a ragewalker is its lack of energy resistances, so be sure to hit it with protection from energy and give it some potions of resist energy.

DR/cold iron is a plus. If the bad guys are evil, the melee bashers are likely to have evil weapons, and even if they don't it's only an align weapon away. Cold iron is much rarer.

A couple of passes should clear out all the small fry. With luck, the ragewalker can corner one or two enemies and eviscerate them, covering its retreat with blade barriers and walls of fire.
b3snyder
10-22-07, 10:03 PM The idea of CR is, that all CR 14 creatures are equally dangerous.

The specifications you gave are both very generic, but also surprisingly specific? Has the dm already said how many there are and of which level? If not, it could really be any combination of everything. And even if he did, for whatever reason, when using class levels, they could be any creature from CR 1/3 to CR 12.

We were told both groups were starting equal, with equal numbers of people and levels. This was in-game by our "guide". Supposedly the gods are playing a game with us, and if we lose, chaos takes over the world.

We have actually sent one creature earlier, but it was aimed at stealth and recon, and quickly died before we could learn much (we were scrying on the creature, and saw the pixie take it out in one round). So we decided to step it up and go big.

I know that the CR system is supposed to be equal, but there are some creatures with tricks and abilities that make them more dangerous than others, depending on the situation. We (our group as players) are not familiar with much except core, so I'm hoping the experiences of those on these boards can give us a leg up.

Talisman, the Ragewalker is very intriguing. I will definitely bring it up with the group.
Talisman
10-22-07, 10:32 PM Talisman, the Ragewalker is very intriguing. I will definitely bring it up with the group.

Let me know how it turns out! :D

For raw, destructive power, it's hard to pass up a dragon. Since you guys are good (?), a young adult gold (20 HD, 230 hp, AC 27, 5th-level spellcasting) or adult copper (20 HD, 210 hp, AC 28, 7th-level spellcasting) might be interesting choices.

If you've got Draconomicon, there's also the mature adult battle dragon (23 HD, 288 hp, AC 31, SR 26, breaths sonic energy or fear gas), or the adult radiant dragon (HD 24, hp 276, AC 35, SR 28, breathes a line of force).

But, personally, I like fey.
Jaxgaret
10-22-07, 11:12 PM I'll agree with Talisman about the Dragons - you can never go wrong in picking a strong Dragon. Draconomicon has lots of nice choices.

But, here are some other ideas:

If you're seriously thinking about going with the Astral Deva, check out the Shiradi Eladrin from BoED for comparison.

If you will have certain control over this creature, here are some options -

The Necronaut from MM3 could be fun to spring on them, and will devastate the lower level enemies. Get its Charisma score as high as possible and it will have an enormous number of HP.

There's always a good old Beholder. Buff it up the wazoo and let it rock. Should get at least a few of them.

I don't have the MM5 with me at the moment, but check out the Ruin Chanter and Mockery Monarch from there, I think they may be good choices as well.
RobbyPants
10-23-07, 10:44 AM I guess I'd have to pour over my books and put in some serious thought into this to give you a good answer. Also, the more you find out about the party in advacne, the nastier you can make your choice. If you know one's a pixie, some way to see or dispell invisibility is a must.

Just off the top of my head, a rakshasa (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rakshasa.htm) (CR 10) with four levels of sorcerer might be fun to throw against them. The rakshasa already has 7 sorcerer levels, so it will cast as an 11th level sorcerer. Hardly scary as a CR 14 monster itself, but it has a lot of resistances and immunities that will make it hard to take down. If you go this route, you can't ever have it directly face the PCs, as they'll likely kill it quickly; its resistances only will help so much.

An erinyes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#erinyes) (CR 8) is a flying devil that has True Seeing constantly active. This gives you six levels to play with to get it to CR 14. Granted, I can't think of anything awesome to add on for six levels, so I don't know that this gets you much other than True Seeing and Teleport. One of the nice thing about fiends is their ability to Gate in other fiends to help. Numbers will be important for you. A single BBEG against a group tends to get killed quickly as they focus all their efforts on it.

Looking into numbers, some type of necromancer might be cool. Remember that summoned and animated creatures all count as part of the creature that summoned them in terms of XP and CR. So a CR 14 necromancer with 56 Hit Dice of undead is still a CR 14 encounter. ;) This principle might be a good way to boost your numbers while still technically staying in the bounds of CR 14. Also, consider taking the Leadership feat if possible. A 13th level cohort and some low level mooks are a welcome addition for the mere cost of a feat.

If you're able to simply make a 14th level NPC, a full caster might be a good way to go.
mvincent
10-23-07, 08:18 PM If you're able to simply make a 14th level NPC, a full caster might be a good way to go.Note that a 14th level evil cleric casts blasphemy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blasphemy.htm) at CL 15 (or say, CL 23 if he first uses a prayer bead of karma, orange ioun stone, candle of invocation, and deathknell)... that can pretty much end a party.
Talisman
10-23-07, 08:49 PM <snip>The creature must be from a published WOTC book and cannot have any templates or class levels (must be as printed).<snip>

QFT
RobbyPants
10-24-07, 09:26 AM I knew I was missing something, because it seemed too obvious. :P

Well, I guess I'll have to pour over my books and see if I can't contribute to this thread in a meaninful fashion. Off the top of my head, some of the fiends can be pretty nasty with their collection of abiliites, but a prepared party can make short work of about any single moster in the books.

Well, off the top of my head, a nalfeshnee (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#nalfeshnee) is a CR 14 demon that could give them some trouble. It also has True Seeing all the time.

While slightly weaker (CR 13), a Glabrezu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#glabrezu) is also kind of nice. Between Power Word Stun, Confusing, and Reverse Gravity, it can hopefully keep some of the PCs busy while it foucses on others.

Another nice aspect of the fiends is their ability to Teleport at will. Take advantage of this. If things don't go well, get out, and come back again when the party isn't ready.
KillerVole
10-24-07, 10:16 PM Hmmm... Can you equip the monster with whatever you want, as long as the monster can hold it? If so, take a siege crab, and equip it with the best weapon of all: the party. Put your four toughest fighters inside it, drive it into the enemy base, then go to town. Of course, the powers-that-be may take a dim view of you screwing with their bet, but the baddies (and, probably, the DM) would never expect it.
b3snyder
10-25-07, 01:03 PM Bah, sorry guys. The DM clarified that the creature has to be from the core Monster Manual only. He did appologize for not being clear, and he did say he may allow other books after we've progessed more, so that's not so bad.:tantrum:

So thanks to those who suggested monsters from other books, we'll keep them in mind when the DM allows other books.

I guess since we're limited to the core MM, this post is a bit useless now, and can fade off into forum oblivion...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
b3snyder 10-22-07, 01:53 PM	Our campaign has taken a twist, and we find ourselves able to send any single creature, up to CR14, against a competing party (all NPC, played by the DM). We do not know what they are (races or classes), but we believe they are the same levels as us (levels 12-13). There are 5 of them (as there are 5 of us), and are most likely Evil in alignment. They also have roughly 20 minions with PC class levels, upto level 5. There may also be commoners near or around their tower. Update We did find out that one of the five high levels is a Pixie. The creature will appear within 5 miles of the enemy's tower, and must use its own intelligence and abilities to locate them and attack. This means the creature must be intelligent. The creature must be from a published WOTC book and cannot have any templates or class levels (must be as printed). We can cast spells on it before we send it out, and give it general instructions which it will attempt to follow as best it can. Once it is gone we cannot communicate or assist in any way. Please list the creatures name, book it is from, why you think it is so dangerous, and any tips on what we should tell it before we send it out. Our next session is in two weeks, and any help is appreciated. To get started, we are considering the Astral Deva (Angel) from the Monster Manual. It is fast and can fly. DR10/evil. SR30. Immune to acid and cold. Resistance 10 to electricity and fire. Good spell like abilities. Protective aura that acts like a circle against evil and lesser globe of invulnerability. AC is good but not exceptional. Melee offense ability is also good but not exceptional. Change shape ability into any small or medium humanoid. We would tell it to use it's hide and move siliently skills (and invisibility spell-like ability) to approach, and to only attack single or small groups. If it is being overwhelmed, to retreat and use hit and run tacticts.
Naderion 10-22-07, 02:11 PM	The idea of CR is, that all CR 14 creatures are equally dangerous. The specifications you gave are both very generic, but also surprisingly specific? Has the dm allready said how many there are and of which level? If not, it could really be any combination of everything. And even if he did, for whatever reason, when using class levels, they could be any creature from CR 1/3 to CR 12.
Talisman 10-22-07, 03:32 PM	Ragewalker, MM3. A 22-HD fey with DR 10/cold iron, fast healing 5, SR 26, fights with a +5 spiked chain. Anyone within 10' has to make a DC 28 (!) Will save or go nuts and attack everything and anything. It can also rebuke living spells, so if you can somehow get a few of those... The aura of bloodthirstiness will neatly take care of the hordes of followers as they slaughter each other. As living embodiments of war, ragewalkers exist to kill people. Ragewalkers also have decent SLAs (quickened blade barrier, anyone?) Oh, and they reflect missile attacks :D Buff the beastie out with all the defensive/mobility/combat enhancers you have. Give it potions if possible (invisibility, haste etc.) Order it to use hit-and-run attacks, retreating whenever it's reduced below 2/3 of its hit points to allow it to heal (fast healing!). The weak point of a ragewalker is its lack of energy resistances, so be sure to hit it with protection from energy and give it some potions of resist energy. DR/cold iron is a plus. If the bad guys are evil, the melee bashers are likely to have evil weapons, and even if they don't it's only an align weapon away. Cold iron is much rarer. A couple of passes should clear out all the small fry. With luck, the ragewalker can corner one or two enemies and eviscerate them, covering its retreat with blade barriers and walls of fire.
b3snyder 10-22-07, 10:03 PM	The idea of CR is, that all CR 14 creatures are equally dangerous. The specifications you gave are both very generic, but also surprisingly specific? Has the dm already said how many there are and of which level? If not, it could really be any combination of everything. And even if he did, for whatever reason, when using class levels, they could be any creature from CR 1/3 to CR 12. We were told both groups were starting equal, with equal numbers of people and levels. This was in-game by our "guide". Supposedly the gods are playing a game with us, and if we lose, chaos takes over the world. We have actually sent one creature earlier, but it was aimed at stealth and recon, and quickly died before we could learn much (we were scrying on the creature, and saw the pixie take it out in one round). So we decided to step it up and go big. I know that the CR system is supposed to be equal, but there are some creatures with tricks and abilities that make them more dangerous than others, depending on the situation. We (our group as players) are not familiar with much except core, so I'm hoping the experiences of those on these boards can give us a leg up. Talisman, the Ragewalker is very intriguing. I will definitely bring it up with the group.
Talisman 10-22-07, 10:32 PM	Talisman, the Ragewalker is very intriguing. I will definitely bring it up with the group. Let me know how it turns out! :D For raw, destructive power, it's hard to pass up a dragon. Since you guys are good (?), a young adult gold (20 HD, 230 hp, AC 27, 5th-level spellcasting) or adult copper (20 HD, 210 hp, AC 28, 7th-level spellcasting) might be interesting choices. If you've got Draconomicon, there's also the mature adult battle dragon (23 HD, 288 hp, AC 31, SR 26, breaths sonic energy or fear gas), or the adult radiant dragon (HD 24, hp 276, AC 35, SR 28, breathes a line of force). But, personally, I like fey.
Jaxgaret 10-22-07, 11:12 PM	I'll agree with Talisman about the Dragons - you can never go wrong in picking a strong Dragon. Draconomicon has lots of nice choices. But, here are some other ideas: If you're seriously thinking about going with the Astral Deva, check out the Shiradi Eladrin from BoED for comparison. If you will have certain control over this creature, here are some options - The Necronaut from MM3 could be fun to spring on them, and will devastate the lower level enemies. Get its Charisma score as high as possible and it will have an enormous number of HP. There's always a good old Beholder. Buff it up the wazoo and let it rock. Should get at least a few of them. I don't have the MM5 with me at the moment, but check out the Ruin Chanter and Mockery Monarch from there, I think they may be good choices as well.
RobbyPants 10-23-07, 10:44 AM	I guess I'd have to pour over my books and put in some serious thought into this to give you a good answer. Also, the more you find out about the party in advacne, the nastier you can make your choice. If you know one's a pixie, some way to see or dispell invisibility is a must. Just off the top of my head, a rakshasa (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rakshasa.htm) (CR 10) with four levels of sorcerer might be fun to throw against them. The rakshasa already has 7 sorcerer levels, so it will cast as an 11th level sorcerer. Hardly scary as a CR 14 monster itself, but it has a lot of resistances and immunities that will make it hard to take down. If you go this route, you can't ever have it directly face the PCs, as they'll likely kill it quickly; its resistances only will help so much. An erinyes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#erinyes) (CR 8) is a flying devil that has True Seeing constantly active. This gives you six levels to play with to get it to CR 14. Granted, I can't think of anything awesome to add on for six levels, so I don't know that this gets you much other than True Seeing and Teleport. One of the nice thing about fiends is their ability to Gate in other fiends to help. Numbers will be important for you. A single BBEG against a group tends to get killed quickly as they focus all their efforts on it. Looking into numbers, some type of necromancer might be cool. Remember that summoned and animated creatures all count as part of the creature that summoned them in terms of XP and CR. So a CR 14 necromancer with 56 Hit Dice of undead is still a CR 14 encounter. ;) This principle might be a good way to boost your numbers while still technically staying in the bounds of CR 14. Also, consider taking the Leadership feat if possible. A 13th level cohort and some low level mooks are a welcome addition for the mere cost of a feat. If you're able to simply make a 14th level NPC, a full caster might be a good way to go.
mvincent 10-23-07, 08:18 PM	If you're able to simply make a 14th level NPC, a full caster might be a good way to go.Note that a 14th level evil cleric casts blasphemy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blasphemy.htm) at CL 15 (or say, CL 23 if he first uses a prayer bead of karma, orange ioun stone, candle of invocation, and deathknell)... that can pretty much end a party.
Talisman 10-23-07, 08:49 PM	<snip>The creature must be from a published WOTC book and cannot have any templates or class levels (must be as printed).<snip> QFT
RobbyPants 10-24-07, 09:26 AM	I knew I was missing something, because it seemed too obvious. :P Well, I guess I'll have to pour over my books and see if I can't contribute to this thread in a meaninful fashion. Off the top of my head, some of the fiends can be pretty nasty with their collection of abiliites, but a prepared party can make short work of about any single moster in the books. Well, off the top of my head, a nalfeshnee (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#nalfeshnee) is a CR 14 demon that could give them some trouble. It also has True Seeing all the time. While slightly weaker (CR 13), a Glabrezu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#glabrezu) is also kind of nice. Between Power Word Stun, Confusing, and Reverse Gravity, it can hopefully keep some of the PCs busy while it foucses on others. Another nice aspect of the fiends is their ability to Teleport at will. Take advantage of this. If things don't go well, get out, and come back again when the party isn't ready.
KillerVole 10-24-07, 10:16 PM	Hmmm... Can you equip the monster with whatever you want, as long as the monster can hold it? If so, take a siege crab, and equip it with the best weapon of all: the party. Put your four toughest fighters inside it, drive it into the enemy base, then go to town. Of course, the powers-that-be may take a dim view of you screwing with their bet, but the baddies (and, probably, the DM) would never expect it.
b3snyder 10-25-07, 01:03 PM	Bah, sorry guys. The DM clarified that the creature has to be from the core Monster Manual only. He did appologize for not being clear, and he did say he may allow other books after we've progessed more, so that's not so bad.:tantrum: So thanks to those who suggested monsters from other books, we'll keep them in mind when the DM allows other books. I guess since we're limited to the core MM, this post is a bit useless now, and can fade off into forum oblivion...