Deathbringer, How Do I Make Him Tougher? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Deathbringer, How Do I Make Him Tougher? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kilsek of Sheverash
09-23-03, 11:01 AM The Deathbringer, an intelligent undead soldier out of MMII, is a great monster that I badly want to use. However, what I've noticed is that besides its ability to dispel at will every round, it'll miss terribly in a fight. Its main attack bonus, for being a CR ~20ish creature (IDTBIFOM), is only in the high teens! High level characters (15th-20th) simply won't even be touched by this undead "soldier."

So, what's the best way to make the Deathbringer more combat capable? Is it okay by the rules and does it make sense to add fighter, ranger and/or blackguard levels? Are there certain magic items you'd have him using - could he use potions of Bull's Stength (he's undead, but can he drink potions?) or does it make more sense to let him use a Belt of Giant Strength? Or what would you do?

I just really want him to hit once in a while, and actually be a threat in melee when he's not dispelling the party's one million buffs (use to be 3 million buffs in 3.0, thank God that's over). Thanks.
Toptomcat
09-23-03, 11:12 AM Have him command UNDEAD LEIGONZ, and give him the marshal class.
Riznar
09-23-03, 11:12 AM Ummm, I don't have any books infront of me, but what other abilities does it have? How many HD?

If you wanted, you could give it a ghast's paralysing touch, and make the DC horribly high...

Also, since it's intelligent, giving it class levels is cool, ranger seems like a good idea. A couple levels of fighter feats might also make up for the lack of BAB.

Roll the value of it's treasure, and then make it use the treasure in combat.
Azaar
09-23-03, 11:31 AM I dunno about giving it ranger levels, but only because I don't think the deathbringer should have access to the ranger spell list; I just don't think it makes sense for a deathbringer to be casting those spells. Now, fighter/blackguard or something of that nature, I could see making sense.
cwslyclgh
09-23-03, 11:40 AM of you just want him to hit once in a while take away one of his flails and give him a brilliant energy weapon... his attack bonus should be high enough to hit fighters who have no armor bonus added in to thier AC.

Ifg you realy want to make him tougher soround him with crimson deaths, they should still hit a decent amount of time with thier incorpreal touch attacks, and when the death bringer uses his negative burst ability he will heal the crimson deaths and damage the party at the same time.
Kilsek of Sheverash
09-23-03, 01:07 PM Thanks for the ideas guys. I especially like adding crimson deaths for the combo. I also like the idea of its "treasure" including a brilliant energy weapon which it wields. If it can afford two brilliant energy flails... look out!

I'm also leaning towards using the elite array for his ability scores and giving the Deathbringer higher natural strength. And of course, maybe some levels of fighter or blackguard.

Any other ideas for equipment or undead allies of the Deathbringer for this encounter? Again, I'm trying to make him hit more often because his attack bonus is terrible and I don't think he'd be much of a challenge melee-wise.
The Abominable Darkling
09-23-03, 04:43 PM According to its tactics, it likes to trip whenever possible. One way to make it tougher is to choose feats that actually help it do this (unlike its current feats, which appear to have been chosen by a demented 3-year-old—Power Attack?? Great Cleave?? What were they smoking??). Give it Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, and Improved Trip for starters.

Ultimately, remember that this is a support monster. Despite its organization entry, it should never be encountered alone or in a group of exclusively death bringers. Basically, in a fight, it should stay back out of reach, dispelling and using its negative energy burst whenever possible. If anyone closes with it, it should trip them (not make a full attack!) and move away. Also note that the negative energy burst is supernatural, so it won't be affected by any spell resistance the deathbringer's allies might have.

In short, this monster stinks on its own, but, as part of an EL 20 fight, it can make things a bit more interesting.
ruleslawyer
09-23-03, 05:46 PM Quicken spell-like ability (dispel magic) is also a key add-on, giving the deathbringer the ability to dispel and make a full attack in the same round. Remember that in 3.5e, the deathbringer's high HD grant it LOTS of feats, so choose those for effect. Also, if you really need to give it class levels, give it 8 levels of cleric; those only raise its CR by 4 but give it access to divine power (for a nice big BAB!) and divine feats.
The Abominable Darkling
09-23-03, 08:31 PM Oooo... That's pretty gross. *files away for future reference* :)
(Psi)SeveredHead
09-23-03, 09:08 PM I thought the Negative Burst could be tougher.

Due to a possible misreading of a Fiend Folio inevitable, I thought I read that the inevitable had an ability that used negative energy to dispel spells (as well as dealing damage).

Or, even more evil, use two of them. Then they can use their negative burst to heal each other.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kilsek of Sheverash 09-23-03, 11:01 AM	The Deathbringer, an intelligent undead soldier out of MMII, is a great monster that I badly want to use. However, what I've noticed is that besides its ability to dispel at will every round, it'll miss terribly in a fight. Its main attack bonus, for being a CR ~20ish creature (IDTBIFOM), is only in the high teens! High level characters (15th-20th) simply won't even be touched by this undead "soldier." So, what's the best way to make the Deathbringer more combat capable? Is it okay by the rules and does it make sense to add fighter, ranger and/or blackguard levels? Are there certain magic items you'd have him using - could he use potions of Bull's Stength (he's undead, but can he drink potions?) or does it make more sense to let him use a Belt of Giant Strength? Or what would you do? I just really want him to hit once in a while, and actually be a threat in melee when he's not dispelling the party's one million buffs (use to be 3 million buffs in 3.0, thank God that's over). Thanks.
Toptomcat 09-23-03, 11:12 AM	Have him command UNDEAD LEIGONZ, and give him the marshal class.
Riznar 09-23-03, 11:12 AM	Ummm, I don't have any books infront of me, but what other abilities does it have? How many HD? If you wanted, you could give it a ghast's paralysing touch, and make the DC horribly high... Also, since it's intelligent, giving it class levels is cool, ranger seems like a good idea. A couple levels of fighter feats might also make up for the lack of BAB. Roll the value of it's treasure, and then make it use the treasure in combat.
Azaar 09-23-03, 11:31 AM	I dunno about giving it ranger levels, but only because I don't think the deathbringer should have access to the ranger spell list; I just don't think it makes sense for a deathbringer to be casting those spells. Now, fighter/blackguard or something of that nature, I could see making sense.
cwslyclgh 09-23-03, 11:40 AM	of you just want him to hit once in a while take away one of his flails and give him a brilliant energy weapon... his attack bonus should be high enough to hit fighters who have no armor bonus added in to thier AC. Ifg you realy want to make him tougher soround him with crimson deaths, they should still hit a decent amount of time with thier incorpreal touch attacks, and when the death bringer uses his negative burst ability he will heal the crimson deaths and damage the party at the same time.
Kilsek of Sheverash 09-23-03, 01:07 PM	Thanks for the ideas guys. I especially like adding crimson deaths for the combo. I also like the idea of its "treasure" including a brilliant energy weapon which it wields. If it can afford two brilliant energy flails... look out! I'm also leaning towards using the elite array for his ability scores and giving the Deathbringer higher natural strength. And of course, maybe some levels of fighter or blackguard. Any other ideas for equipment or undead allies of the Deathbringer for this encounter? Again, I'm trying to make him hit more often because his attack bonus is terrible and I don't think he'd be much of a challenge melee-wise.
The Abominable Darkling 09-23-03, 04:43 PM	According to its tactics, it likes to trip whenever possible. One way to make it tougher is to choose feats that actually help it do this (unlike its current feats, which appear to have been chosen by a demented 3-year-old—Power Attack?? Great Cleave?? What were they smoking??). Give it Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, and Improved Trip for starters. Ultimately, remember that this is a support monster. Despite its organization entry, it should never be encountered alone or in a group of exclusively death bringers. Basically, in a fight, it should stay back out of reach, dispelling and using its negative energy burst whenever possible. If anyone closes with it, it should trip them (not make a full attack!) and move away. Also note that the negative energy burst is supernatural, so it won't be affected by any spell resistance the deathbringer's allies might have. In short, this monster stinks on its own, but, as part of an EL 20 fight, it can make things a bit more interesting.
ruleslawyer 09-23-03, 05:46 PM	Quicken spell-like ability (dispel magic) is also a key add-on, giving the deathbringer the ability to dispel and make a full attack in the same round. Remember that in 3.5e, the deathbringer's high HD grant it LOTS of feats, so choose those for effect. Also, if you really need to give it class levels, give it 8 levels of cleric; those only raise its CR by 4 but give it access to divine power (for a nice big BAB!) and divine feats.
The Abominable Darkling 09-23-03, 08:31 PM	Oooo... That's pretty gross. files away for future reference :)
(Psi)SeveredHead 09-23-03, 09:08 PM	I thought the Negative Burst could be tougher. Due to a possible misreading of a Fiend Folio inevitable, I thought I read that the inevitable had an ability that used negative energy to dispel spells (as well as dealing damage). Or, even more evil, use two of them. Then they can use their negative burst to heal each other.