Deathling [PEACH] [Archive] - Wizards Community

Deathling [PEACH] [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dracomortis
07-01-06, 12:46 PM Deathling
Small Undead
Hit Dice: 1d6 (3 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +2 leather armor), touch 12, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-4
Attack: Short sword +1 melee (1d4/19-20 x2)
Full Attack: Short sword +1 melee (1d4/19-20 x2) or light crossbow +2 ranged (1d6/19-20 x2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Sneak attack
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., trapfinding, undead traits
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +3, Will -1
Abilities: Str 11, Dex 13, Con —, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 6
Skills: Disable Device +4, Escape Artist +5, Hide +11, Listen +3, Move Silently +7, Search +4, Sleight of Hand +5, Tumble +5
Feats: Stealthy
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary or party (2-4)
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +1 (for now)

A small, humanoid-shaped creature stands before you. It appears to be a halfling, but with sallow skin and sunken eyes.

Deathlings are the undead equivalent of halflings, but what relationship the two species have is unknown. Some speculate that the first deathlings were halflings brought back from the grave into unlife, while others claim that the similarities between the two are pure coincidence. Whatever the case, deathlings seek, like halflings, to find their own place in life - or unlife as it were - but face far more stigma than any living creature ever did.

Cursed with a longing to fit in, deathlings are tragic figures. Feared by the living and cast out from the undead, they have no place among either. Most deathlings wander alone, but sometimes small groups of deathlings band together and form nomadic parties. Regardless, most deathlings are adventurers; it is the one thing above all else that gives them a sense of meaning.

Deathlings stand about the height of a halfling, rarely more than 3 feet tall, but weigh only about 20 pounds. Deathlings speak Common and Deathspeak, a language of the dead thought to have been forgotten to time until recently.

Combat
While not overly inclined to fighting, deathlings are tenacious combatants. They prefer tactics over brute force, placing emphasis on “quality over quantity” of their blows.

Sneak Attack: Extra 1d6 damage when opponent is flat-footed.

Trapfinding: Use Search skill to find traps.

Deathlings as Characters
Deathlings are adept at stealth and tactile fighting. Most deathlings become rogues, but many are drawn to the path of the necromancer as well. Deathling rangers are at least fairly common, but clerics are rare among them, feeling abandoned by the gods. Those who do take up worship usually revere Wee Jas. Evil deathlings may revere Nerull.

Deathling characters possess the following racial traits.
— +2 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Cha. Deathlings are small and quick, but they are frail and often come off as guarded or uncaring. As undead creatures, deathlings have no Constitution score.
—Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.
—A deathling’s base land speed is 20 feet.
—Undead type.
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—Automatic Languages: Common, Deathspeak. Bonus Languages: Any.
—Favored class: Rogue.
—Level Adjustment: +1 (for now)

The deathling rogue presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8.
Dracomortis
07-03-06, 01:27 PM Bump.
CryoSilver
07-03-06, 01:31 PM I'm gonna say it should be LA +1, just because being undead has so many benefits.
SOPI
07-03-06, 01:49 PM I'm gonna say it should be LA +1, just because being undead has so many benefits.
I'd have to agree. My first thought when seeing this was LA +0? Hell, I want to play one of these. LA +1 seems reasonable.
Dracomortis
07-03-06, 01:56 PM Hmm, this is a point I've really been debating. My reasoning for a +0 LA comes from the necropolitan in Libris Mortis.

It is an undead creature and has no LA; the reasoning for this is because they have to undergo a ritual that causes them to lose a level (I don't agree with this reasoning, because with the XP system they will eventually catch up anyway). So, theoretically, without the ritual they are a LA +1. In addition to being undead, they have several special qualities - a +2 bonus on attempts to resist control undead, +2 turn resistance, and they heal naturally like a living creature.

So, on to the deathling. According to Savage Species (we're going to pretend for the moment that it's completely balanced, and ignore the fact that it's 3.0), the undead type is usually a +2 LA. Also by SS, small size is worth a -1 LA. So we're at a net of +1. However, back to the necropolitan - I think it's special abilities are reasonably accountable for at least a good portion of its theoretical LA. So, my thought was that without them, this guy could drop down to LA +0.

Apparently, I was wrong (again :D). However, I would like to keep the deathling at an LA +0, which was my original intent for creating it - to have an undead viable as a 1st level character without resorting to monster classes. If I unbalanced his ability scores unfavorably (that is, he has more penalties than bonuses), that should give him another LA -1. Do you guys think this is a suitable fix, or is there something else that can be done? If there's absolutely nothing that can keep him down at +0, I will regrettably increase it to +1.
CryoSilver
07-03-06, 02:01 PM Being Small is not actually much of a disadvantage, especially for a rogue; your armor is cheaper and lighter, you gain +1 to hit, +4 to hide, +1 to AC... And your race doesn't have a strength penalty, so it deals the same damage.
wonlee76
07-03-06, 02:12 PM Deathling
Small Undead
Hit Dice: 1d6 (3 hp)

Undead HD is 1d12.

Initiative: +1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +2 leather armor), touch 12, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-3
Attack: Short sword +2 melee (1d4/19-20 x2)
Full Attack: Short sword +2 melee (1d4/19-20 x2) or light crossbow +2 ranged (1d6/19-20 x2)

With a 13 strength or 13 Dex and 0 BAB, the attack rolls for both the shortsword and crossbow should be +1 to hit. Also, you fogt to tack on an extra +1 to damage with the shortsword.

Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Sneak attack
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., trapfinding, undead traits
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +2, Will -1

Since this is a level 1 rogue, +3 Reflex Save. +2 Base, +1 Dex.

Abilities: Str 13, Dex 13, Con —, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 6
Skills: Disable Device +4, Escape Artist +5, Hide +11, Listen +3, Move Silently +7, Search +4, Sleight of Hand +5, Tumble +5
Feats: Stealthy
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary or party (2-4)
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +0

+0 LA? Barring the Necropolitan, I can't think of a single undead creature that can be played as a PC with a 0 LA. At least the Necropolitan is paying gold and xp for the benefit of 0 LA undead features (and even then it is mildly overpowered). You don't even have that going for you and rather use it as justification for allowing a small sized undead creature to go walking around with 0 LA. On top of that, +2 Dex, -2 Cha? Why not the standard +2 Dex, -2 Str that halfling normally get if this is just an undead version of a halfling.

Benefits:
HD 1d12 no matter what underlying class is.
Immune to Mind Affecting Spells
Immune to Poisons
Immune to Diseases
Immune to Critical Hits/Sneak Attacks
Immune to most spells that require a Fort Save (exception for spells or effects that work on objects).
No need to breath (no danger of suffocating and the like)

Disadvantages:
No Con Score
No Healing while resting
Healing will be a pain in the butt to get in a "standard" game.

My opinion, if you have to make an undead halfling type of creature, either use the Necropolitan and apply it to a halfling or just use this creature and tack on a +1 LA to it. Either way, you should be "paying" something for the benefits.
Dracomortis
07-03-06, 02:21 PM ...and your base land speed is 10 feet slower. Equipment weighs 75% as much as for a Medium creature, but you can only carry 75% as much as them, so it's essentially no change. You're not dealing the same damage, because your weapons are a size smaller, thus dealing less damage.

As for Strength, that was the ability I intended to apply a penalty to to try to get this guy down to La +0. As is now, he's not enitrely balanced (a +2 Dex bonus requires a -2 penalty to 1 physical score or 2 mental scores).

I don't entirely agree with the level adjustment system, but I do think that being Small is much less of an advantage than the disadvantages it brings - that's not even considering the roleplaying disadvantages, such as being unable to reach the top shelf, having to ride a weener dog instead of a horse, and having to deal with foot hair :).
Dracomortis
07-03-06, 02:32 PM Oops, ninja'd.

Undead HD is 1d12.
To the best of my knowledge, undead type does not automatically change all HD to d12s, except in the case of a template that specifically says so.
With a 13 strength or 13 Dex and 0 BAB, the attack rolls for both the shortsword and crossbow should be +1 to hit. Also, you fogt to tack on an extra +1 to damage with the shortsword.
Small creatures get a +1 bonus on all attack rolls. I did forget the bonus to damage however.
Since this is a level 1 rogue, +3 Reflex Save. +2 Base, +1 Dex.
Whoops. Did saves before I added racial modifier, heh.
+0 LA? Barring the Necropolitan, I can't think of a single undead creature that can be played as a PC with a 0 LA. At least the Necropolitan is paying gold and xp for the benefit of 0 LA undead features (and even then it is mildly overpowered). You don't even have that going for you and rather use it as justification for allowing a small sized undead creature to go walking around with 0 LA.
Like I already pointed out, the XP isn't really a big deal because you're going to get it back and catch up with other characters. Burning XP is never a good balancing factor, in my opinion, which is why I gave the necropolitan a theoretical +1 LA and ignored the ritual. As for the LA of the deathling, that's what I am trying to decide now - how to bring it down. We've already agreed that it's a +1 right now; +2 for undead, -1 for Small size.
On top of that, +2 Dex, -2 Cha? Why not the standard +2 Dex, -2 Str that halfling normally get if this is just an undead version of a halfling.
Because this isn't just a halfling changed to undead type. Also, my post above suggested changing Strength (but you ninja'd me, so that's my fault really).
thasis
07-03-06, 04:46 PM I personally see this as LA +0, as the benifits aren't to extensive and overbearing compared ot the normal races. If anything it's LA +0.5... if only that worked. But it's closer to LA +0 then +1 I think.

As for skills, why so many skills? Undead normally don't have many skills (I think it's 2+intx4 for a 1 HD undead), and this creature doesn't have any intelligence modifier so... the amount of skills is making me edgy.
Dracomortis
07-03-06, 05:09 PM LA +0 creatures with only 1 racial Hit Dice replace all benefits of that HD with that of their class level, including skills. Thus, he gets the rogue's 8 + Int per level, with quadruple points because he's first level. I freak out every time I see a rogue character sheet :eek:.
thasis
07-03-06, 08:38 PM Ok, that makes more sense. I would specifically state that somewhere however... some of us slow ones don't completly catch it right away :P
Dracomortis
07-03-06, 08:55 PM Ahahaha, I was hoping the d6 Hit Dice would key you in. Oh well, let's try this:

DISCLAIMER:
The above monster is statted using standard SRD rules. This means that its Hit Dice and skill points seem absurd for an undead. DO NOT PANIC. This is how it was intended to be as proclaimed by the all-powerful SRD. Do not attempt to argue with, dispute the rights of, or degrade the all-powerful SRD, or something will happen to cause your brain so much pain that it can only be compared to trying to make 3.0 psionics work.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dracomortis 07-01-06, 12:46 PM	Deathling Small Undead Hit Dice: 1d6 (3 hp) Initiative: +1 Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares) Armor Class: 14 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +2 leather armor), touch 12, flat-footed 13 Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-4 Attack: Short sword +1 melee (1d4/19-20 x2) Full Attack: Short sword +1 melee (1d4/19-20 x2) or light crossbow +2 ranged (1d6/19-20 x2) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Sneak attack Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., trapfinding, undead traits Saves: Fort +0, Ref +3, Will -1 Abilities: Str 11, Dex 13, Con —, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 6 Skills: Disable Device +4, Escape Artist +5, Hide +11, Listen +3, Move Silently +7, Search +4, Sleight of Hand +5, Tumble +5 Feats: Stealthy Environment: Any Organization: Solitary or party (2-4) Challenge Rating: 1 Treasure: Standard Alignment: Usually neutral Advancement: By character class Level Adjustment: +1 (for now) A small, humanoid-shaped creature stands before you. It appears to be a halfling, but with sallow skin and sunken eyes. Deathlings are the undead equivalent of halflings, but what relationship the two species have is unknown. Some speculate that the first deathlings were halflings brought back from the grave into unlife, while others claim that the similarities between the two are pure coincidence. Whatever the case, deathlings seek, like halflings, to find their own place in life - or unlife as it were - but face far more stigma than any living creature ever did. Cursed with a longing to fit in, deathlings are tragic figures. Feared by the living and cast out from the undead, they have no place among either. Most deathlings wander alone, but sometimes small groups of deathlings band together and form nomadic parties. Regardless, most deathlings are adventurers; it is the one thing above all else that gives them a sense of meaning. Deathlings stand about the height of a halfling, rarely more than 3 feet tall, but weigh only about 20 pounds. Deathlings speak Common and Deathspeak, a language of the dead thought to have been forgotten to time until recently. Combat While not overly inclined to fighting, deathlings are tenacious combatants. They prefer tactics over brute force, placing emphasis on “quality over quantity” of their blows. Sneak Attack: Extra 1d6 damage when opponent is flat-footed. Trapfinding: Use Search skill to find traps. Deathlings as Characters Deathlings are adept at stealth and tactile fighting. Most deathlings become rogues, but many are drawn to the path of the necromancer as well. Deathling rangers are at least fairly common, but clerics are rare among them, feeling abandoned by the gods. Those who do take up worship usually revere Wee Jas. Evil deathlings may revere Nerull. Deathling characters possess the following racial traits. — +2 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Cha. Deathlings are small and quick, but they are frail and often come off as guarded or uncaring. As undead creatures, deathlings have no Constitution score. —Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters. —A deathling’s base land speed is 20 feet. —Undead type. —Darkvision out to 60 feet. —Automatic Languages: Common, Deathspeak. Bonus Languages: Any. —Favored class: Rogue. —Level Adjustment: +1 (for now) The deathling rogue presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8.
Dracomortis 07-03-06, 01:27 PM	Bump.
CryoSilver 07-03-06, 01:31 PM	I'm gonna say it should be LA +1, just because being undead has so many benefits.
SOPI 07-03-06, 01:49 PM	I'm gonna say it should be LA +1, just because being undead has so many benefits. I'd have to agree. My first thought when seeing this was LA +0? Hell, I want to play one of these. LA +1 seems reasonable.
Dracomortis 07-03-06, 01:56 PM	Hmm, this is a point I've really been debating. My reasoning for a +0 LA comes from the necropolitan in Libris Mortis. It is an undead creature and has no LA; the reasoning for this is because they have to undergo a ritual that causes them to lose a level (I don't agree with this reasoning, because with the XP system they will eventually catch up anyway). So, theoretically, without the ritual they are a LA +1. In addition to being undead, they have several special qualities - a +2 bonus on attempts to resist control undead, +2 turn resistance, and they heal naturally like a living creature. So, on to the deathling. According to Savage Species (we're going to pretend for the moment that it's completely balanced, and ignore the fact that it's 3.0), the undead type is usually a +2 LA. Also by SS, small size is worth a -1 LA. So we're at a net of +1. However, back to the necropolitan - I think it's special abilities are reasonably accountable for at least a good portion of its theoretical LA. So, my thought was that without them, this guy could drop down to LA +0. Apparently, I was wrong (again :D). However, I would like to keep the deathling at an LA +0, which was my original intent for creating it - to have an undead viable as a 1st level character without resorting to monster classes. If I unbalanced his ability scores unfavorably (that is, he has more penalties than bonuses), that should give him another LA -1. Do you guys think this is a suitable fix, or is there something else that can be done? If there's absolutely nothing that can keep him down at +0, I will regrettably increase it to +1.
CryoSilver 07-03-06, 02:01 PM	Being Small is not actually much of a disadvantage, especially for a rogue; your armor is cheaper and lighter, you gain +1 to hit, +4 to hide, +1 to AC... And your race doesn't have a strength penalty, so it deals the same damage.
wonlee76 07-03-06, 02:12 PM	Deathling Small Undead Hit Dice: 1d6 (3 hp) Undead HD is 1d12. Initiative: +1 Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares) Armor Class: 14 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +2 leather armor), touch 12, flat-footed 13 Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-3 Attack: Short sword +2 melee (1d4/19-20 x2) Full Attack: Short sword +2 melee (1d4/19-20 x2) or light crossbow +2 ranged (1d6/19-20 x2) With a 13 strength or 13 Dex and 0 BAB, the attack rolls for both the shortsword and crossbow should be +1 to hit. Also, you fogt to tack on an extra +1 to damage with the shortsword. Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Sneak attack Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., trapfinding, undead traits Saves: Fort +0, Ref +2, Will -1 Since this is a level 1 rogue, +3 Reflex Save. +2 Base, +1 Dex. Abilities: Str 13, Dex 13, Con —, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 6 Skills: Disable Device +4, Escape Artist +5, Hide +11, Listen +3, Move Silently +7, Search +4, Sleight of Hand +5, Tumble +5 Feats: Stealthy Environment: Any Organization: Solitary or party (2-4) Challenge Rating: 1 Treasure: Standard Alignment: Usually neutral Advancement: By character class Level Adjustment: +0 +0 LA? Barring the Necropolitan, I can't think of a single undead creature that can be played as a PC with a 0 LA. At least the Necropolitan is paying gold and xp for the benefit of 0 LA undead features (and even then it is mildly overpowered). You don't even have that going for you and rather use it as justification for allowing a small sized undead creature to go walking around with 0 LA. On top of that, +2 Dex, -2 Cha? Why not the standard +2 Dex, -2 Str that halfling normally get if this is just an undead version of a halfling. Benefits: HD 1d12 no matter what underlying class is. Immune to Mind Affecting Spells Immune to Poisons Immune to Diseases Immune to Critical Hits/Sneak Attacks Immune to most spells that require a Fort Save (exception for spells or effects that work on objects). No need to breath (no danger of suffocating and the like) Disadvantages: No Con Score No Healing while resting Healing will be a pain in the butt to get in a "standard" game. My opinion, if you have to make an undead halfling type of creature, either use the Necropolitan and apply it to a halfling or just use this creature and tack on a +1 LA to it. Either way, you should be "paying" something for the benefits.
Dracomortis 07-03-06, 02:21 PM	...and your base land speed is 10 feet slower. Equipment weighs 75% as much as for a Medium creature, but you can only carry 75% as much as them, so it's essentially no change. You're not dealing the same damage, because your weapons are a size smaller, thus dealing less damage. As for Strength, that was the ability I intended to apply a penalty to to try to get this guy down to La +0. As is now, he's not enitrely balanced (a +2 Dex bonus requires a -2 penalty to 1 physical score or 2 mental scores). I don't entirely agree with the level adjustment system, but I do think that being Small is much less of an advantage than the disadvantages it brings - that's not even considering the roleplaying disadvantages, such as being unable to reach the top shelf, having to ride a weener dog instead of a horse, and having to deal with foot hair :).
Dracomortis 07-03-06, 02:32 PM	Oops, ninja'd. Undead HD is 1d12. To the best of my knowledge, undead type does not automatically change all HD to d12s, except in the case of a template that specifically says so. With a 13 strength or 13 Dex and 0 BAB, the attack rolls for both the shortsword and crossbow should be +1 to hit. Also, you fogt to tack on an extra +1 to damage with the shortsword. Small creatures get a +1 bonus on all attack rolls. I did forget the bonus to damage however. Since this is a level 1 rogue, +3 Reflex Save. +2 Base, +1 Dex. Whoops. Did saves before I added racial modifier, heh. +0 LA? Barring the Necropolitan, I can't think of a single undead creature that can be played as a PC with a 0 LA. At least the Necropolitan is paying gold and xp for the benefit of 0 LA undead features (and even then it is mildly overpowered). You don't even have that going for you and rather use it as justification for allowing a small sized undead creature to go walking around with 0 LA. Like I already pointed out, the XP isn't really a big deal because you're going to get it back and catch up with other characters. Burning XP is never a good balancing factor, in my opinion, which is why I gave the necropolitan a theoretical +1 LA and ignored the ritual. As for the LA of the deathling, that's what I am trying to decide now - how to bring it down. We've already agreed that it's a +1 right now; +2 for undead, -1 for Small size. On top of that, +2 Dex, -2 Cha? Why not the standard +2 Dex, -2 Str that halfling normally get if this is just an undead version of a halfling. Because this isn't just a halfling changed to undead type. Also, my post above suggested changing Strength (but you ninja'd me, so that's my fault really).
thasis 07-03-06, 04:46 PM	I personally see this as LA +0, as the benifits aren't to extensive and overbearing compared ot the normal races. If anything it's LA +0.5... if only that worked. But it's closer to LA +0 then +1 I think. As for skills, why so many skills? Undead normally don't have many skills (I think it's 2+intx4 for a 1 HD undead), and this creature doesn't have any intelligence modifier so... the amount of skills is making me edgy.
Dracomortis 07-03-06, 05:09 PM	LA +0 creatures with only 1 racial Hit Dice replace all benefits of that HD with that of their class level, including skills. Thus, he gets the rogue's 8 + Int per level, with quadruple points because he's first level. I freak out every time I see a rogue character sheet :eek:.
thasis 07-03-06, 08:38 PM	Ok, that makes more sense. I would specifically state that somewhere however... some of us slow ones don't completly catch it right away :P
Dracomortis 07-03-06, 08:55 PM	Ahahaha, I was hoping the d6 Hit Dice would key you in. Oh well, let's try this: DISCLAIMER: The above monster is statted using standard SRD rules. This means that its Hit Dice and skill points seem absurd for an undead. DO NOT PANIC. This is how it was intended to be as proclaimed by the all-powerful SRD. Do not attempt to argue with, dispute the rights of, or degrade the all-powerful SRD, or something will happen to cause your brain so much pain that it can only be compared to trying to make 3.0 psionics work.