Defence Ball ( for the 4th time) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Defence Ball ( for the 4th time) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tridiak
08-10-05, 05:05 PM First of all, which of you admins is removing my thread all the time? :mad:
This is the 4th time I have posted this. It keeps getting removed. WHY?

Now to the monster: I need a CR and some feedback.

Defence Ball
Tiny Incorporeal Construct
Hit Dice: 6d10
Initiative: +6
Speed: Fly 120 (Perfect)
Armor Class: 30 (+6 Dex, +4 Size, +10 Deflection field), Flat-Footed 24, Touch 30, Both 24
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/--
Attack: Energy Beam +10 ranged touch (3d10 energy damage/19-20)
or Energy Assault (see below)
Full Attack: Energy Beam or Energy Assault
Space/Reach: 5/0ft
Special Attacks: Energy Assault
Special Qualities: Construct traits, Incorporeal traits, Instant Regeneration, Immune to physical damage (see below), Dark Vision 60ft
Saves: Fort +2 Ref +8 Will +2
Abilities: Str -- Dex 22 Con -- Int -- Wis 10 Cha 1
Skills: Spot +9, Listen +9, Hide +14
Feats: None
Environment: Any
Organization: Single or Guardian Troop
Challenge Rating:
Treasure: None
Alignment: Neutral
Advancement: 7-10(Tiny), 11-18(Small)
Level Adjustment: --

The Ball has Spot & Listen bonus equal to it's HD+3 (part of it's defence abilities). Hide is from Dex & size.
Combat
Instant Regeneration(Su)
At the beginning of each round, it automatically regenerates all it's hit points. (See Magic Immunity section below).
Energy Form
Unless specifically instructed otherwise, the Ball changes between each of the energy types randomly at the beginning of each round.
The colours for each energy type is as follows:
- Cold : blue or green
- Fire : red or orange
- Acid : green or red
- Elec : blue or white
- Sonic : white or transparent (20% concealment)
Energy Beam(Su) - Range 100ft. Ranged touch attack. One of the 5 energy types : Acid, Electricity, Fire, Cold or Sonic. Unless specifically told otherwise, it will use a random energy type each round. It is capable of multiple attacks if it's BAB is high enough.
Damage is d10 every 2HD.
Energy Assault(Su) - This ability works by simply moving into a target's space. The damage is the Ball's current hit points.
A reflex save is allowed for half damage.
Physical Immunity
It is immune to all physical damage unless the physical attack possesses a magical energy attack which is "opposite" (see below) to it's current state (such as a Flaming Sword vs Cold form). In this case, only the energy part does damage, not the weapon itself.
Energy Energy Form
Attack / Cold Fire Acid Elec Sonic
Cold Heal Full Half No No
Fire Full Heal Half No No
Acid No No Heal No No
Elec No No Full Heal No
Sonic Half No Half Half Heal
Force Half Half Full No Full
Heal : damage heals it.
Magic Immunity
The Ball is immune to all forms of magic except for the following:
- Dispel Magic suppresses it's Instant Regeneration for d4 rounds
- Greater Dispel Magic suppresses it's Instant Regeneration for d4+3 rounds
- AMF causes it to "wink out"
- MDJ and Epic Dispelling will destroy it
- Magical Energy assaults of the "opposite" type will affect like (see table above)
- It cannot enter a Major Globe of Invulnerability. It's energy beam suffers a -6 to hit when passing through it. If a MGI is forced against it and it can't escape, the MGI will collapse
- Force effects are 50% effective (ie it has a 50% chance of passing through a Wall of Force. MM has 50% of harming it)
Dispel magic check is 11+it's HD.
It uses a will save vs MDJ.

Creating a Defence Ball
Craft Construct feat, Solid Mithral ball (one inch thickness per HD), Flaming Sphere, Scorching Ray, Ball Lightning(FR spell), Lightning Bolt, Freezing Sphere, Polar Ray, Acid Arrow, Acid Fog, Energy Sub(Sonic) metamagic feat or Archmage Energy Substitution ability, Miracle or Wish, CL 17th. Costs 2,000 gp and 80xp per HD.
Flushmaster
08-10-05, 05:26 PM That is one of the most poorly thought out proposals for a monster I've ever seen. Obviously, you want something that is nearly invincible. Quite a few of its "features" fly directly in the face of actual rules of the game, and I mean fundamental rules upon which other rules are based, not the type that are most often tweaked for house rules. Several "features" are directly contradictory to eachother and a a fair chunk of these are mislabled on top of that.

This sucks.
malykoth
08-10-05, 05:58 PM Flushmaster may have been a bit blunt, but I have to (basically) agree with him.

Armor Class: 30 (+6 Dex, +4 Size, +10 Deflection field), Flat-Footed 24, Touch 30, Both 24
Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but what do you mean by "Both 24"? I understand Flat-Footed and Touch, but what's Both supposed to mean?

Attack: Energy Beam +10 ranged touch (3d10 energy damage/19-20)
Don't know many things that inflict d10 damage, why should this?

Special Qualities: Construct traits, Incorporeal traits, Instant Regeneration, Immune to physical damage (see below), Dark Vision 60ft
Construct, incorporeal, "instant regeneration"?! Seems really overpowered to me. Especially this instant regeneration :rolleyes: business...that would never make it at our table.

It is immune to all physical damage unless the physical attack possesses a magical energy attack which is "opposite" (see below) to it's current state (such as a Flaming Sword vs Cold form). In this case, only the energy part does damage, not the weapon itself.
Energy Energy Form
Attack / Cold Fire Acid Elec Sonic
Cold Heal Full Half No No
Fire Full Heal Half No No
Acid No No Heal No No
Elec No No Full Heal No
Sonic Half No Half Half Heal
Force Half Half Full No Full

HUH?!! This is WAY too complicated. My group get's bogged down in combat enough without having to figure out this mess...

The Ball is immune to all forms of magic except for the following:
- Dispel Magic suppresses it's Instant Regeneration for d4 rounds
- Greater Dispel Magic suppresses it's Instant Regeneration for d4+3 rounds
- AMF causes it to "wink out"
- MDJ and Epic Dispelling will destroy it
- Magical Energy assaults of the "opposite" type will affect like (see table above)
- It cannot enter a Major Globe of Invulnerability. It's energy beam suffers a -6 to hit when passing through it. If a MGI is forced against it and it can't escape, the MGI will collapse Well, at least you're not asking for complete magic immunity... :rolleyes:

Seriously, dude...while I would hate to discourage someone trying to be different and creative, this needs a lot more thought and a lot of changes before it becomes even close to usable. Still, give it a go, make some changes, and try to make it work. As a hint, why not find something that already exists in the d20 system and use that as a guide. Also, ask yourself this, "If I was in a game, and this was brought out against my PC, would I say it's a good encounter, or a lame encounter?" If our DM set this against our party, we'd pelt him with food and reference books until he fled the room!
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
08-10-05, 07:03 PM First of all, which of you admins is removing my thread all the time? :mad:
This is the 4th time I have posted this. It keeps getting removed. WHY?

It's not getting removed. The 3rd try is on the second damned page, and the first and second are probably a few more pages back.
Realms of Chaos
08-10-05, 08:08 PM Some new comments for you and those commenting.

A. there is no ac entry of both.

B. instant regeneration needs to be changed. I suggest that you name one or two types of weapons or damage that can get through the regeneration and simply have it heal all nonlethal damage each turn. still a bit overpowered, mind you, but acceptable.

C. d10s seem right for its primary weapon as nothing says that it can't have that.

D. its physical immunity ability, while much simpler than the abilities of husks (twisted lore), simply conflicts with the point of instant regeneration. if you want to make its chosen element heal it, that is fine but there is no need to nullify all other damage (as being incorporeal does that half of the time anyway).

E. I am kind of cheesed off that it can use both of its kinds of attacks in one round (with a standard and move action) but I can't think of a reason why it shouldn't be allowed.
tridiak
08-10-05, 08:48 PM It's not getting removed. The 3rd try is on the second damned page, and the first and second are probably a few more pages back.
Oops. Sorry. Didn't realise the threads moved so quickly. I look at these things roughly twice a week and usually I see the same threads only moved slightly. I never look beyond the first page.

Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but what do you mean by "Both 24"? I understand Flat-Footed and Touch, but what's Both supposed to mean?
Sorry. My thing. Missed it when I posted it.
Both means Touch attack when Flat Footed (this CAN happen).

This Ball is DIFFERENT. And I like to be creative.
A standard, experienced party automatically knows how to deal with creatures and beasties and certain types and subtypes.
This is very different and will result in a nasty surprise.
Limited resilience to magical energy assaults gives it less immunities than an Iron Golem.
Magical energy weapons and assaults are relatively common. A 10die fireball could waste it in one go.
The 50% immunity to Force, I agree, is overpowered. Then again, how many creatures are immune or resistant to force effects?
Party see Incorporeal beastie, out with the MM or Forecage and one dead beastie.

The instant regeneration is to compensate for it's low hit points.
Maybe Fast Healing XX instead.

Originally Posted by tridiak
It is immune to all physical damage unless the physical attack possesses a magical energy attack which is "opposite" (see below) to it's current state (such as a Flaming Sword vs Cold form). In this case, only the energy part does damage, not the weapon itself.
Energy Energy Form
Attack / Cold Fire Acid Elec Sonic
Cold Heal Full Half No No
Fire Full Heal Half No No
Acid No No Heal No No
Elec No No Full Heal No
Sonic Half No Half Half Heal
Force Half Half Full No Full

HUH?!! This is WAY too complicated. My group get's bogged down in combat enough without having to figure out this mess...
Point taken.

Simplification : Full damage as follows (energy form : energy attack)
- Cold : Fire
- Fire : Cold
- Acid : Sonic
- Sonic : Cold
- Elec : Force
Immune to same energy type.
Half damage from other energy types.

This sucks.
The first response I got was positive (with some needed tweaking).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tridiak 08-10-05, 05:05 PM	First of all, which of you admins is removing my thread all the time? :mad: This is the 4th time I have posted this. It keeps getting removed. WHY? Now to the monster: I need a CR and some feedback. Defence Ball Tiny Incorporeal Construct Hit Dice: 6d10 Initiative: +6 Speed: Fly 120 (Perfect) Armor Class: 30 (+6 Dex, +4 Size, +10 Deflection field), Flat-Footed 24, Touch 30, Both 24 Base Attack/Grapple: +4/-- Attack: Energy Beam +10 ranged touch (3d10 energy damage/19-20) or Energy Assault (see below) Full Attack: Energy Beam or Energy Assault Space/Reach: 5/0ft Special Attacks: Energy Assault Special Qualities: Construct traits, Incorporeal traits, Instant Regeneration, Immune to physical damage (see below), Dark Vision 60ft Saves: Fort +2 Ref +8 Will +2 Abilities: Str -- Dex 22 Con -- Int -- Wis 10 Cha 1 Skills: Spot +9, Listen +9, Hide +14 Feats: None Environment: Any Organization: Single or Guardian Troop Challenge Rating: Treasure: None Alignment: Neutral Advancement: 7-10(Tiny), 11-18(Small) Level Adjustment: -- The Ball has Spot & Listen bonus equal to it's HD+3 (part of it's defence abilities). Hide is from Dex & size. Combat Instant Regeneration(Su) At the beginning of each round, it automatically regenerates all it's hit points. (See Magic Immunity section below). Energy Form Unless specifically instructed otherwise, the Ball changes between each of the energy types randomly at the beginning of each round. The colours for each energy type is as follows: - Cold : blue or green - Fire : red or orange - Acid : green or red - Elec : blue or white - Sonic : white or transparent (20% concealment) Energy Beam(Su) - Range 100ft. Ranged touch attack. One of the 5 energy types : Acid, Electricity, Fire, Cold or Sonic. Unless specifically told otherwise, it will use a random energy type each round. It is capable of multiple attacks if it's BAB is high enough. Damage is d10 every 2HD. Energy Assault(Su) - This ability works by simply moving into a target's space. The damage is the Ball's current hit points. A reflex save is allowed for half damage. Physical Immunity It is immune to all physical damage unless the physical attack possesses a magical energy attack which is "opposite" (see below) to it's current state (such as a Flaming Sword vs Cold form). In this case, only the energy part does damage, not the weapon itself. Energy Energy Form Attack / Cold Fire Acid Elec Sonic Cold Heal Full Half No No Fire Full Heal Half No No Acid No No Heal No No Elec No No Full Heal No Sonic Half No Half Half Heal Force Half Half Full No Full Heal : damage heals it. Magic Immunity The Ball is immune to all forms of magic except for the following: - Dispel Magic suppresses it's Instant Regeneration for d4 rounds - Greater Dispel Magic suppresses it's Instant Regeneration for d4+3 rounds - AMF causes it to "wink out" - MDJ and Epic Dispelling will destroy it - Magical Energy assaults of the "opposite" type will affect like (see table above) - It cannot enter a Major Globe of Invulnerability. It's energy beam suffers a -6 to hit when passing through it. If a MGI is forced against it and it can't escape, the MGI will collapse - Force effects are 50% effective (ie it has a 50% chance of passing through a Wall of Force. MM has 50% of harming it) Dispel magic check is 11+it's HD. It uses a will save vs MDJ. Creating a Defence Ball Craft Construct feat, Solid Mithral ball (one inch thickness per HD), Flaming Sphere, Scorching Ray, Ball Lightning(FR spell), Lightning Bolt, Freezing Sphere, Polar Ray, Acid Arrow, Acid Fog, Energy Sub(Sonic) metamagic feat or Archmage Energy Substitution ability, Miracle or Wish, CL 17th. Costs 2,000 gp and 80xp per HD.
Flushmaster 08-10-05, 05:26 PM	That is one of the most poorly thought out proposals for a monster I've ever seen. Obviously, you want something that is nearly invincible. Quite a few of its "features" fly directly in the face of actual rules of the game, and I mean fundamental rules upon which other rules are based, not the type that are most often tweaked for house rules. Several "features" are directly contradictory to eachother and a a fair chunk of these are mislabled on top of that. This sucks.
malykoth 08-10-05, 05:58 PM	Flushmaster may have been a bit blunt, but I have to (basically) agree with him. Armor Class: 30 (+6 Dex, +4 Size, +10 Deflection field), Flat-Footed 24, Touch 30, Both 24 Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but what do you mean by "Both 24"? I understand Flat-Footed and Touch, but what's Both supposed to mean? Attack: Energy Beam +10 ranged touch (3d10 energy damage/19-20) Don't know many things that inflict d10 damage, why should this? Special Qualities: Construct traits, Incorporeal traits, Instant Regeneration, Immune to physical damage (see below), Dark Vision 60ft Construct, incorporeal, "instant regeneration"?! Seems really overpowered to me. Especially this instant regeneration :rolleyes: business...that would never make it at our table. It is immune to all physical damage unless the physical attack possesses a magical energy attack which is "opposite" (see below) to it's current state (such as a Flaming Sword vs Cold form). In this case, only the energy part does damage, not the weapon itself. Energy Energy Form Attack / Cold Fire Acid Elec Sonic Cold Heal Full Half No No Fire Full Heal Half No No Acid No No Heal No No Elec No No Full Heal No Sonic Half No Half Half Heal Force Half Half Full No Full HUH?!! This is WAY too complicated. My group get's bogged down in combat enough without having to figure out this mess... The Ball is immune to all forms of magic except for the following: - Dispel Magic suppresses it's Instant Regeneration for d4 rounds - Greater Dispel Magic suppresses it's Instant Regeneration for d4+3 rounds - AMF causes it to "wink out" - MDJ and Epic Dispelling will destroy it - Magical Energy assaults of the "opposite" type will affect like (see table above) - It cannot enter a Major Globe of Invulnerability. It's energy beam suffers a -6 to hit when passing through it. If a MGI is forced against it and it can't escape, the MGI will collapse Well, at least you're not asking for complete magic immunity... :rolleyes: Seriously, dude...while I would hate to discourage someone trying to be different and creative, this needs a lot more thought and a lot of changes before it becomes even close to usable. Still, give it a go, make some changes, and try to make it work. As a hint, why not find something that already exists in the d20 system and use that as a guide. Also, ask yourself this, "If I was in a game, and this was brought out against my PC, would I say it's a good encounter, or a lame encounter?" If our DM set this against our party, we'd pelt him with food and reference books until he fled the room!
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 08-10-05, 07:03 PM	First of all, which of you admins is removing my thread all the time? :mad: This is the 4th time I have posted this. It keeps getting removed. WHY? It's not getting removed. The 3rd try is on the second damned page, and the first and second are probably a few more pages back.
Realms of Chaos 08-10-05, 08:08 PM	Some new comments for you and those commenting. A. there is no ac entry of both. B. instant regeneration needs to be changed. I suggest that you name one or two types of weapons or damage that can get through the regeneration and simply have it heal all nonlethal damage each turn. still a bit overpowered, mind you, but acceptable. C. d10s seem right for its primary weapon as nothing says that it can't have that. D. its physical immunity ability, while much simpler than the abilities of husks (twisted lore), simply conflicts with the point of instant regeneration. if you want to make its chosen element heal it, that is fine but there is no need to nullify all other damage (as being incorporeal does that half of the time anyway). E. I am kind of cheesed off that it can use both of its kinds of attacks in one round (with a standard and move action) but I can't think of a reason why it shouldn't be allowed.
tridiak 08-10-05, 08:48 PM	It's not getting removed. The 3rd try is on the second damned page, and the first and second are probably a few more pages back. Oops. Sorry. Didn't realise the threads moved so quickly. I look at these things roughly twice a week and usually I see the same threads only moved slightly. I never look beyond the first page. Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but what do you mean by "Both 24"? I understand Flat-Footed and Touch, but what's Both supposed to mean? Sorry. My thing. Missed it when I posted it. Both means Touch attack when Flat Footed (this CAN happen). This Ball is DIFFERENT. And I like to be creative. A standard, experienced party automatically knows how to deal with creatures and beasties and certain types and subtypes. This is very different and will result in a nasty surprise. Limited resilience to magical energy assaults gives it less immunities than an Iron Golem. Magical energy weapons and assaults are relatively common. A 10die fireball could waste it in one go. The 50% immunity to Force, I agree, is overpowered. Then again, how many creatures are immune or resistant to force effects? Party see Incorporeal beastie, out with the MM or Forecage and one dead beastie. The instant regeneration is to compensate for it's low hit points. Maybe Fast Healing XX instead. Originally Posted by tridiak It is immune to all physical damage unless the physical attack possesses a magical energy attack which is "opposite" (see below) to it's current state (such as a Flaming Sword vs Cold form). In this case, only the energy part does damage, not the weapon itself. Energy Energy Form Attack / Cold Fire Acid Elec Sonic Cold Heal Full Half No No Fire Full Heal Half No No Acid No No Heal No No Elec No No Full Heal No Sonic Half No Half Half Heal Force Half Half Full No Full HUH?!! This is WAY too complicated. My group get's bogged down in combat enough without having to figure out this mess... Point taken. Simplification : Full damage as follows (energy form : energy attack) - Cold : Fire - Fire : Cold - Acid : Sonic - Sonic : Cold - Elec : Force Immune to same energy type. Half damage from other energy types. This sucks. The first response I got was positive (with some needed tweaking).