Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sorcen_Anenooata 07-02-06, 01:36 PM	These are creatures created by Sorcen combining the best aspects of balors, pit fiends, and dragons. I made these many years ago before I realized what the cornugons were, but still they're alot stronger than cornugons and more powerful than balors or pit fiends although not quite as strong as dragons. Anyway PEACH and enjoy, anything marked with a question mark is something I need help with, if its easier for ya'll go ahead and copy the stats and fill in the blanks and repost it. Heres a pic of the Degons (http://s89.photobucket.com/albums/k203/Sorcen_Anenooata/?action=view&current=Degon.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch4), well one interpretation anyway. Degons Large Dragon (extraplanar, evil) Hit Dice: 10d12+120 (240 hp) Initiative: +3 Speed: 60ft, Fly 120ft (good) Armor Class: 23 (+3 Dex, +10 natural) how do I go about getting higher AC? Attack: 1 bite +17 melee (1d8+10), 2 claws +12 melee (1d6+7), 2 wings +12 melee(1d6+7), 1 tail slap +17 melee (1d8+10) Space/Reach: 5ft by 5ft/10ft Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Spell-like Abilities, Summon Ally, Spells, Special Qualities: DR 30/good, Weapon Training, Outsider Traits, Hybrid Traits, Detect Magic, See Invisibility, Death Throes, Regeneration, SR 22, Dragon Immunities, Blindsight, Keen Senses, Saves: fort +10, ref +10, will +10 Abilities: Str 25, Dex 16, Con 17, Int 17, Wis 16, Cha 14, suggestions for better stats? Skills: ? coming soon, i think Feats: ? also coming soon, i think Environment: Any Challenge Rating: ? Treasure: Double Standard Alignment: always any evil, if dragon parent was law then the degon will be law and same for chaos and neutral. Degons look about the same generally but vary in color depending on the dragon heritage. All degons are about 10-12ft tall with a slim but muscular build and weigh in at around 1300 lbs. All have a long thin tail, 5 fingered hands ending in claws, a pair of great dragon wings growing from the shoulders (35 feet from tip to tip), and a face resembling a balor's. They usually wear magical armor when going into battle and weild magical weapons. Degons are a new race recently created by Sorcen and there are very few that have deserted Sorcen and lived. Sorcen experimented with a Bahamut degon by attacking Bahamut and getting some of his blood for the experiments, the platinum degon was very powerful and all, but it's good aligned nature was too strong and Sorcen had trouble with keeping the creature evil. Eventually the creature had to be destroyed for attempting to kill Sorcen. Further experimentation with this has been banned, but if successful Sorcen would surely reward the creator of it. The exact process to create a degon is unknown. A degon from Tiamat has not been tried yet since in my campaign world Tiamat is in the shadow dimension. These creatures were created by Sorcen by fusing the best qualities of demons, devils, and dragons. There are as many types of degons as there are dragons, for each of the colors and other types of dragons has been experimentated with and twisted with demons and devils (more specifically, pit fiends and balors) into a subspecies of degon for each subspecies of dragon. The many different subspecies makes them vary as much as the dragons in their abilities and powers. Combat Degons usually make the best use of their spell-like abilities before engaging in melee with their opponents. Since all degons can breathe a cone of hellfire, they use that breath weapon unless their other one would do better. Hybrid Traits: Degons can communicate telepathically with any creature within 100 feet that has a language. In addition, he can see perfectly in darkness of any kind, even that created by a deeper darkness spell. Degons is immune to fire, electricity, and poison, and he has acid resistance 20 and cold resistance 20. Outsider Traits: Degons cannot be raised or resurrected. Weapon Training (Su): Every degon is trained in the use of the greatsword and the whip, but most take up training with a favored weapon of their choice and once this weapon is chosen they learn its use quickly (1 week of training) and gain a +10 to any attack with this weapon. These weapons are commonly enchanted with the following: vorpal, flaming burst, returning, keen weapons of speed, but are not limited to just these enchantments. Breath Weapon (Su): Each Degon has two types of breath weapon, a cone of hellfire and a cone of the type of breath weapon their draconic parent had, if the parent had two breath weapons then one of them must be chosen during the creation of the character (ex. -black parent gives the black degon a cone of acid, silver parent gives the silver degon a cone of cold or a cone of paralyzing gas). Both of these cones are 50 feet long instead of 40 feet. The hellfire cone deals 8d10 damage, this damage is treated as unholy and fire and appears as dark crimson fire. The other cone deals 8d10 damage or whatever the other effect may be. Spell-Like Abilities: At will- animate dead, blasphemy, charm monster, create undead, deeper darkness, desecrate, detect thoughts, discern location, dominate monster, eyebite, fear, fireball, greater dispelling, improved invisibility, insanity, magic missle, magic circle against good, major image, mass charm, mirror image, project image, restoration, suggestion, telekinesis, teleport without error, true seeing (as a cleric), unholy aura, unholy blight, unhallow, wall of fire, wretched blight; 3/day- symbol (any); 1/day- disintegrate, fire storm, implosion, meteor swarm; 1/week- hellfire storm; 1/year- wish. Caster level 20th; save DC 18+spell level. Detect Magic (Su): Degons continuously detect magic as the spell cast by a 20th level sorceror. See Invisibility (Su): Degons continuously see invisibility as the spell cast by a 20th level sorceror. Death Throes (Ex): When killed, a degon explodes in a flash of firey energy that deals 30 points of damage to everything within 50 feet (reflex half DC 18). Summon Ally (Sp): Twice per day a degon can automatically summon 1d8 gelugons or cornugons or one pit fiend, balor, or a degon. Regeneration (Ex): Degons take normal damage from holy or blessed weapons of at least +3 enchantment. Dragon Immunities (Ex): Degons are immune to sleep and paralysis effects. Spells: Degons know and cast spells arcane spells as a 13th level sorceror, gaining bonus spells for a high charisma score. Blindsight (Ex): Degons can ascertain creatures by nonvisual means, mostly hearing and scent but also vibrations and enviromental clues. They can detect creature nonvisually out to a range of 100 feet. Keen Senses (Ex): A degon sees four times as well as a human in low-light conditions and twice as well in normal light.
CryoSilver 07-02-06, 02:00 PM	Degons Large Dragon Outsider This is not valid; is it a dragon or an outsider? I suggest dragon with the extraplanar and evil subtypes. Hit Dice: 10d12+120 (240 hp) Initiative: +3 (without feats) Speed: 60ft, Fly 120ft (good) Armor Class: 23 (+3 Dex, +10 natural) This AC is nothing at the CR this thing will end up at. I suggest you jack it higher. Attacks: 1 bite +17 melee (1d8+10), 2 claws +12 melee (1d6+7), 2 wings +12 melee(1d6+7), 1 tail slap +17 melee (1d8+10) Space/Reach: 5ft by 5ft/10ft All reach is done in 5 foot increments Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Spell-like Abilities, Summon Ally, Spells Special Qualities: DR 30/+3 DR is not done like this anymore; I suggest: DR 30/good, Weapon Training, Outsider Traits, Hybrid Traits, Detect Magic, See Invisibility, Death Throes, Regeneration, SR 22, Dragon Immunities, Blindsight, Keen Senses Saves: fort +10, ref +10, will +10 Abilities: Str 25, Dex 16, Con 17, Int 17, Wis 16, Cha 14 These scores are really low for something so supposedly powerful, especially Constitution Skills: 90 skill points; you can max out 6 skills, and put 12 ranks in another; I suggest: Concentration, Intimidate, Listen, & Spot be on the list Feats: 4 feats Environment: Any Challenge Rating: ? Treasure: None How about the weapons they supposedly wield, a la Weapon Familiarity? Alignment: always any evil Level Adjustment: ? Not ever, with those spell-likes Degons look about the same generally but vary in color depending on the dragon heritage. All degons are about 10-12ft tall with a slim but muscular build and weigh in at around 1300 lbs. All have a long thin tail, 5 fingered hands ending in claws, a pair of great dragon wings growing from the shoulders (35 feet from tip to tip), and a face resembling a balor's. They usually wear magical armor when going into battle and weild magical weapons. Degons are a new race recently created by Sorcen and there are very few that have deserted Sorcen and lived. Sorcen experimented with a Bahamut degon by attacking Bahamut and getting some of his blood for the experiments, the platinum degon was very powerful and all, but it's good aligned nature was too strong and Sorcen had trouble with keeping the creature evil. Eventually the creature had to be destroyed for attempting to kill Sorcen. Further experimentation with this has been banned, but if successful Sorcen would surely reward the creator of it. The exact process to create a degon is unknown. A degon from Tiamat has not been tried yet since in my campaign world Tiamat is in the shadow dimension. These creatures were created by Sorcen by fusing the best qualities of demons, devils, and dragons. There are as many types of degons as there are dragons, for each of the colors and other types of dragons has been experimentated with and twisted with demons and devils (more specifically, pit fiends and balors) into a subspecies of degon for each subspecies of dragon. The many different subspecies makes them vary as much as the dragons in their abilities and powers. Combat Degons usually make the best use of their spell-like abilities before engaging in melee with their opponents. Since all degons can breathe a cone of hellfire, they use that breath weapon unless their other one would do better. Hybrid Traits: Degons can communicate telepathically with any creature within 100 feet that has a language. In addition, he can see perfectly in darkness of any kind, even that created by a deeper darkness spell. Degons is immune to fire, electricity, and poison, and he has acid resistance 20 and cold resistance 20. Outsider Traits: Degons cannot be raised or resurrected. Weapon Training (Su): Every degon is trained in the use of the greatsword and the whip, but most take up training with a favored weapon of their choice and once this weapon is chosen they learn its use quickly (1 week of training) and gain a +10 to any attack with this weapon. These weapons are commonly enchanted with the following: vorpal, flaming burst, returning, keen weapons of speed, but are not limited to just these enchantments. Breath Weapon (Su): Each Degon has two types of breath weapon, a cone of hellfire and a cone of the type of breath weapon their draconic parent had, if the parent had two breath weapons then one of them must be chosen during the creation of the character (ex. -black parent gives the black degon a cone of acid, silver parent gives the silver degon a cone of cold or a cone of paralyzing gas). Both of these cones are 50 feet long instead of 40 feet. The hellfire cone deals 8d10 damage, this damage is treated as unholy and fire and appears as dark crimson fire. The other cone deals 8d10 damage or whatever the other effect may be. Reflex DC 18 for half damage (Con based) Spell-Like Abilities: At will- animate dead, blasphemy, charm monster, create undead, deeper darkness, desecrate, detect thoughts, discern location, dominate monster, eyebite, fear, fireball, greater dispelling, improved invisibility, insanity, magic missle, magic circle against good, major image, mass charm, mirror image, project image, restoration, resurrection This is weird; why does it have this?, suggestion, telekinesis, teleport without error, true seeing, unholy aura, unholy blight, unhallow, wall of fire, wretched blight; 3/day- symbol (any); 1/day- disintegrate, fire storm, implosion, meteor swarm; 1/week- hellfire storm; 1/year- wish. Caster level 20th; save DC 18+spell level. I nixed Detect Magic (since it has this inherent anyways) and Dominate Person (since it has Dominate Monster at will) Detect Magic (Su): Degons continuously detect magic as the spell cast by a 20th level sorceror. See Invisibility (Su): Degons continuously see invisibility as the spell cast by a 20th level sorceror. Death Throes (Ex): When killed, a degon explodes in a flash of fiery energy that deals 30 points of damage to everything within 50 feet (reflex half DC 18). I adjusted the DC down by 2, due to basing it off of Constitution. Summon Ally (Sp): Twice per day a degon can automatically summon 1d8 gelugons or cornugons or one pit fiend, balor, or a degon. Regeneration (Ex): Degons take normal damage from holy or blessed weapons of at least +3 enchantment. Dragon Immunities (Ex): Degons are immune to sleep and paralysis effects. Spells: Degons know and cast spells arcane spells as a 13th level sorceror, gaining bonus spells for a high charisma score. For ease of use, please provide a sample spells known list Blindsight (Ex): Degons can ascertain creatures by nonvisual means, mostly hearing and scent but also vibrations and enviromental clues. They can detect creature nonvisually out to a range of 100 feet. Keen Senses (Ex): A degon sees four times as well as a human in low-light conditions and twice as well in normal light
Kothardarastrix 07-02-06, 02:04 PM	So what are they, shouldn't they be the evil of the Dragon Blood they have, I mean they're all evil, but the law/chaos of devil and demons would counteract like positive and negative numbers, thus it would be Dragons Law/Chaos Axis that determines what evil. Either way, if they're Demon/Devil Hybrids, they really need the [Evil] descriptor.
Sorcen_Anenooata 07-02-06, 02:22 PM	Cool thanks for the feed back, keep it coming. I have never used the feats, skills, or any of the technical stuff for my games, I just get my players to write down their race and class and a little bit of back ground and we play from that little bit of info, I'm just adapting my ideas to DnD so that everyone else in teh world can enjoy my creations as much as my players and I have. I have no clue about the majority of making things for official play so thanks for the help. I'll edit my original post using the ideas. Oh there was supposed to be a ? beside the dragon outsider because I wasnt sure which to pick. I have no idea how to do the spell list. Kothardarastrix: Thats actually exactly what I had in mind, that the if the dragon parent was lawful then they'd be lawful of if dragon parent is chaotic then they'd be chaotic, or even neutral would make the neutral evil. Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming :D
CryoSilver 07-02-06, 02:46 PM	Don't be offended, but I'm gonna completely overhaul this guy, to match the high CR you seem to want. Degon (example: White dragon parent, Halberd trained) Large Dragon (cold, evil, extraplanar) Hit Dice: 20d12+140 (270 hp) Initiative: +7 (+3 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative) Speed: 60ft, Fly 120ft (good) Armor Class: 35 (+9 Armor (+4 Breastplate), +3 Dex, +7 Deflection, +15 natural) Attack: Bite +30 melee (1d8+10) or halberd +42 melee (2d6+17+1d6 cold) Full Attack: 1 bite +30 melee (1d8+10), 2 claws +28 melee (1d8+10), 2 wings +28 melee(1d6+10), 1 tail slap +28 melee (1d8+10) or halberd +42/+37/+32/+27 (2d6+17+1d6 cold) Space/Reach: 5ft by 5ft/10ft Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Spell-like Abilities, Spells, Summon Ally Special Qualities: Acid Resistance 20, Blindsight 100 ft, Cold resistance 20, DR 30/good, Death Throes, Hybrid Traits, Immunities, Infernal Aura, Keen Senses, Regeneration 10, SR 30, Telepathy 100 ft, Weapon Training Saves: Fort +26, Ref +22, Will +22 Abilities: Str 30, Dex 16, Con 24, Int 17, Wis 16, Cha 24 Skills: Balance +22, Bluff +30, Concentration +30, Intimidate +32, Knowledge (any one) +26, Listen +26, Sense Motive +26, Spot +26 Feats: Awesome Blow, Empower Spell-like Ability, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (claw), Multiattack, Power Attack, Snatch Environment: Any Challenge Rating: 18 ish Treasure: Double Standard Alignment: Usually neutral evil Level Adjustment: - Degons look about the same generally but vary in color depending on the dragon heritage. All degons are about 10-12ft tall with a slim but muscular build and weigh in at around 1300 lbs. All have a long thin tail, 5 fingered hands ending in claws, a pair of great dragon wings growing from the shoulders (35 feet from tip to tip), and a face resembling a balor's. They usually wear magical armor when going into battle and weild magical weapons. The many different subspecies makes them vary as much as the dragons in their abilities and powers. Combat Degons usually make the best use of their spell-like abilities before engaging in melee with their opponents. Since all degons can breathe a cone of hellfire, they use that breath weapon unless their other one would do better. Breath Weapon (su): Each Degon has two types of breath weapon, a cone of hellfire and a cone representing the parent dragon. Both of these cones are 50 feet long. The hellfire cone deals 8d10 damage; half of this is fire damage; the other half is unholy energy. The other cone deals 8d10 energy, dependent on the parent dragon (cold for white, fire for gold, etc) . Reflex DC 27 for half damage (Con based) Death Throes (ex): When killed, a degon explodes in a flash of fiery energy that deals 30 points of damage to everything within 50 feet (Reflex half DC 27). Immunities: Degons are immune to electricity, fire, paralysis, poison, and sleep effects. Infernal Aura (su): the unholy power in a degon manifests as an aura of energy. The degon adds its Charisma modifier as a deflection bonus to AC, and as an unholy bonus to all saves (already calculated). Additonally, all creatures within 60 feet of the degon must succeed at a DC 27 Will save or be shaken for 3d6 rounds; a creature that succeeds is immune to the degon’s aura for 24 hours. Keen Senses (ex): A degon sees twice as well as a human. Additionally, they can see perfectly in any lighting condition, even magical darkness, due to their devilish heritage. Finally, a degon always has Detect Magic and See Invisibility effects active on it. Regeneration (ex): Degons take normal damage from holy or blessed weapons of at least +3 enchantment. Spell-Like Abilities: At will- Animate Dead, Blasphemy, Create Undead, Deeper Darkness, Desecrate, Detect Thoughts, Fireball, Greater Dispelling, Improved Invisibility, Magic Circle Against Good, Major Image, Mass Charm, Mirror Image, Scorching Ray, Suggestion, Telekinesis, Teleport (greater), True Seeing, Unholy Aura, Unholy Blight, Unhallow, Wall of Fire, Wretched Blight; 3/day- Dominate Monster, Symbol (any); 1/day- Disintegrate, Fire Storm, Implosion, Meteor swarm; 1/week- Hellfire Storm. Caster level 20th; save DC 17+spell level Spells: Degons know and cast spells arcane spells as a 13th level sorceror, gaining bonus spells for a high charisma score. Summon Ally (sp): Twice per day a degon can automatically summon 1d4 gelugons or cornugons or one pit fiend, balor, or a degon. Weapon Training (su): Every degon is trained in the use of the greatsword and the whip, but most take up training with a favored weapon of their choice and gain a +10 to any attack with this weapon. This degon is trained in the halberd. Possessions: +4 Breastplate, +2 icy burst halberd Origins of the Degon Degons are a new race recently created by Sorcen and there are very few that have deserted Sorcen and lived. Sorcen experimented with a Bahamut degon by attacking Bahamut and getting some of his blood for the experiments, the platinum degon was very powerful and all, but it's good aligned nature was too strong and Sorcen had trouble with keeping the creature evil. Eventually the creature had to be destroyed for attempting to kill Sorcen. Further experimentation with this has been banned, but if successful Sorcen would surely reward the creator of it. The exact process to create a degon is unknown. A degon from Tiamat has not been tried yet since in my campaign world Tiamat is in the shadow dimension. These creatures were created by Sorcen by fusing the best qualities of demons, devils, and dragons. There are as many types of degons as there are dragons, for each of the colors and other types of dragons has been experimentated with and twisted with demons and devils (more specifically, pit fiends and balors) into a subspecies of degon for each subspecies of dragon.
Sorcen_Anenooata 07-02-06, 03:07 PM	Cool, thats pretty much what I had in mind, I guess this is more of a template and I'd have to do it for each dragon type or give better rules for how to do it. Great job though. I noticed you changed some of his stuff and added the infernal aura, I'm not complaining though. The infernal aura was something I was thinking about but decided not to do. Should I go with double standard treasure or make a table for it? I think I can work this into a template, I'll try that and post it when I finish and see if thats any better.
CryoSilver 07-02-06, 03:13 PM	I dropped a bunch of redundant or (IMO) unfitting spell-likes, upped some ability scores, and added the aura as an excuse to jack the AC and saves of the beastie, as well as include a fear effect. I kept all the hybrid traits, but they've been moved around, into Keen Senses, Immunities, etc. You also forgot to say what rate he regenerated at; I set that to 10. The version I did up is basically a much nastier and upgraded version of yours, which, if complete, I'd peg around CR 14-15 Double treasure should be fine; just subtract the value of his weapon and armor from the total you roll and fill in the difference. Don't forget to include spell-triggers that he can use: scrolls, wands, etc.
Doom_Linnorm 07-02-06, 03:42 PM	I love it when people think like me, I also have created a race of homebrew dragon/fiend hybrids called Dreadwarriors (I mentioned them earlier on the homebrew archfiend thread.)
Sorcen_Anenooata 07-02-06, 04:19 PM	Ok I tried it as a template and this is what I came up with but I dont know if it works as a template, its an abomination not quite a monster but not quite a template. CryoSilver, I hope you dont mind me using your white degon as an example for it. The AC is still low, I guess I can leave the rest to the armor though. Doom_Linnorm, feel free to post your Dreadwarriors here if you want. Degon Degon is an inherited template that can be applied to any dragon (hereafter referred to as the "base creature"). The creatures type changes to large dragon (evil, extraplanar). It uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except where noted here. Size and Type: Large Dragon (evil, extraplanar) Hit dice and Hit points: 20d12+140 (270 hp) Initiative: +7 (+3 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative) Speed: 60ft, Fly 120ft (good) Armor Class: 25 (+3 Dex, +7 Deflection, +15 natural) Attack: Bite +30 melee (1d8+10) Full Attack: 1 bite +30 melee (1d8+10), 2 claws +28 melee (1d8+10), 2 wings +28 melee(1d6+10), 1 tail slap +28 melee (1d8+10) Space/Reach: 5ft by 5ft/10ft Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Spell-like Abilities, Spells, Summon Ally Special Qualities: Acid Resistance 20, Blindsight 100 ft, Cold resistance 20, DR 30/good, Death Throes, Hybrid Traits, Immunities, Infernal Aura, Keen Senses, Regeneration 10, SR 30, Telepathy 100 ft, Weapon Training Saves: Fort +26, Ref +22, Will +22 Abilities: Str 30, Dex 16, Con 24, Int 20, Wis 17, Cha 24 Skills: Balance +22, Bluff +30, Concentration +30, Intimidate +32, Knowledge (any one) +26, Listen +26, Sense Motive +26, Spot +26 Feats: Awesome Blow, Empower Spell-like Ability, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (claw), Multiattack, Power Attack, Snatch Environment: Any Challenge Rating: ? depends on dragon parent, not sure how yet Treasure: Double Standard Alignment: Always any evil, if dragon parent was law then the degon will be law and same for chaos and neutral. Level Adjustment: - Degons look about the same generally but vary in color depending on the dragon heritage. All degons are about 10-12ft tall with a slim but muscular build and weigh in at around 1300 lbs. All have a long thin tail, 5 fingered hands ending in claws, a pair of great dragon wings growing from the shoulders (35 feet from tip to tip), and a face resembling a balor's. They usually wear magical armor when going into battle and weild magical weapons. Degons are a new race recently created by Sorcen and there are very few that have deserted Sorcen and lived. Sorcen experimented with a Bahamut degon by attacking Bahamut and getting some of his blood for the experiments, the platinum degon was very powerful and all, but it's good aligned nature was too strong and Sorcen had trouble with keeping the creature evil. Eventually the creature had to be destroyed for attempting to kill Sorcen. Further experimentation with this has been banned, but if successful Sorcen would surely reward the creator of it. The exact process to create a degon is unknown. A degon from Tiamat has not been tried yet since in my campaign world Tiamat is in the shadow dimension. These creatures were created by Sorcen by fusing the best qualities of demons, devils, and dragons. There are as many types of degons as there are dragons, for each of the colors and other types of dragons has been experimentated with and twisted with demons and devils (more specifically, pit fiends and balors) into a subspecies of degon for each subspecies of dragon. The many different subspecies makes them vary as much as the dragons in their abilities and powers. Combat Degons usually make the best use of their spell-like abilities before engaging in melee with their opponents. Since all degons can breathe a cone of hellfire, they use that breath weapon unless their other one would do better. Breath Weapon (su): Each Degon has two types of breath weapon, a cone of hellfire and a cone representing the parent dragon. Both of these cones are 50 feet long. The hellfire cone deals 8d10 damage; half of this is fire damage; the other half is unholy energy. The other cone deals 8d10 energy, dependent on the parent dragon (cold for white, fire for gold, etc) . Reflex DC 27 for half damage (Con based) Death Throes (ex): When killed, a degon explodes in a flash of fiery energy that deals 30 points of damage to everything within 50 feet (Reflex half DC 27). Immunities: Degons are immune to electricity, fire, paralysis, poison, and sleep effects. Infernal Aura (su): the unholy power in a degon manifests as an aura of energy. The degon adds its Charisma modifier as a deflection bonus to AC, and as an unholy bonus to all saves (already calculated). Additonally, all creatures within 60 feet of the degon must succeed at a DC 27 Will save or be shaken for 3d6 rounds; a creature that succeeds is immune to the degon’s aura for 24 hours. Keen Senses (ex): A degon sees twice as well as a human. Additionally, they can see perfectly in any lighting condition, even magical darkness, due to their devilish heritage. Finally, a degon always has Detect Magic and See Invisibility effects active on it. Regeneration (ex): Degons take normal damage from holy or blessed weapons of at least +3 enchantment. Spell-Like Abilities: At will- Animate Dead, Blasphemy, Create Undead, Deeper Darkness, Desecrate, Detect Thoughts, Fireball, Greater Dispelling, Improved Invisibility, Magic Circle Against Good, Major Image, Mass Charm, Mirror Image, Scorching Ray, Suggestion, Telekinesis, Teleport (greater), True Seeing, Unholy Aura, Unholy Blight, Unhallow, Wall of Fire, Wretched Blight; 3/day- Dominate Monster, Symbol (any); 1/day- Disintegrate, Fire Storm, Implosion, Meteor swarm; 1/week- Hellfire Storm. Caster level 20th; save DC 17+spell level Spells: Degons know and cast spells arcane spells as a 13th level sorceror, gaining bonus spells for a high charisma score. Summon Ally (sp): Twice per day a degon can automatically summon 1d4 gelugons or cornugons or one pit fiend, balor, or a degon. Weapon Training (su): Every degon is trained in the use of the greatsword and the whip, but most take up training with a favored weapon of their choice and gain a +10 to any attack with this weapon. This degon is trained in the halberd. Possessions: Each degon possesses an enchanted weapon and usually some enchanted armor. Example: Degon (White dragon parent, Halberd trained) Large Dragon (cold, evil, extraplanar) Hit Dice: 20d12+140 (270 hp) Initiative: +7 (+3 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative) Speed: 60ft, Fly 120ft (good) Armor Class: 35 (+9 Armor (+4 Breastplate), +3 Dex, +7 Deflection, +15 natural) Attack: Bite +30 melee (1d8+10) or halberd +42 melee (2d6+17+1d6 cold) Full Attack: 1 bite +30 melee (1d8+10), 2 claws +28 melee (1d8+10), 2 wings +28 melee(1d6+10), 1 tail slap +28 melee (1d8+10) or halberd +42/+37/+32/+27 (2d6+17+1d6 cold) Space/Reach: 5ft by 5ft/10ft Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Spell-like Abilities, Spells, Summon Ally Special Qualities: Acid Resistance 20, Blindsight 100 ft, Cold resistance 20, DR 30/good, Death Throes, Hybrid Traits, Immunities, Infernal Aura, Keen Senses, Regeneration 10, SR 30, Telepathy 100 ft, Weapon Training Saves: Fort +26, Ref +22, Will +22 Abilities: Str 30, Dex 16, Con 24, Int 17, Wis 16, Cha 24 Skills: Balance +22, Bluff +30, Concentration +30, Intimidate +32, Knowledge (any one) +26, Listen +26, Sense Motive +26, Spot +26 Feats: Awesome Blow, Empower Spell-like Ability, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (claw), Multiattack, Power Attack, Snatch Environment: Any Challenge Rating: 18 ish Treasure: Double Standard Alignment: Usually neutral evil Level Adjustment: - Degons look about the same generally but vary in color depending on the dragon heritage. All degons are about 10-12ft tall with a slim but muscular build and weigh in at around 1300 lbs. All have a long thin tail, 5 fingered hands ending in claws, a pair of great dragon wings growing from the shoulders (35 feet from tip to tip), and a face resembling a balor's. They usually wear magical armor when going into battle and weild magical weapons. Degons are a new race recently created by Sorcen and there are very few that have deserted Sorcen and lived. Sorcen experimented with a Bahamut degon by attacking Bahamut and getting some of his blood for the experiments, the platinum degon was very powerful and all, but it's good aligned nature was too strong and Sorcen had trouble with keeping the creature evil. Eventually the creature had to be destroyed for attempting to kill Sorcen. Further experimentation with this has been banned, but if successful Sorcen would surely reward the creator of it. The exact process to create a degon is unknown. A degon from Tiamat has not been tried yet since in my campaign world Tiamat is in the shadow dimension. These creatures were created by Sorcen by fusing the best qualities of demons, devils, and dragons. There are as many types of degons as there are dragons, for each of the colors and other types of dragons has been experimentated with and twisted with demons and devils (more specifically, pit fiends and balors) into a subspecies of degon for each subspecies of dragon. The many different subspecies makes them vary as much as the dragons in their abilities and powers. Combat Degons usually make the best use of their spell-like abilities before engaging in melee with their opponents. Since all degons can breathe a cone of hellfire, they use that breath weapon unless their other one would do better. Breath Weapon (su): Each Degon has two types of breath weapon, a cone of hellfire and a cone representing the parent dragon. Both of these cones are 50 feet long. The hellfire cone deals 8d10 damage; half of this is fire damage; the other half is unholy energy. The other cone deals 8d10 energy, dependent on the parent dragon (cold for white, fire for gold, etc) . Reflex DC 27 for half damage (Con based) Death Throes (ex): When killed, a degon explodes in a flash of fiery energy that deals 30 points of damage to everything within 50 feet (Reflex half DC 27). Immunities: Degons are immune to electricity, fire, paralysis, poison, and sleep effects. Infernal Aura (su): the unholy power in a degon manifests as an aura of energy. The degon adds its Charisma modifier as a deflection bonus to AC, and as an unholy bonus to all saves (already calculated). Additonally, all creatures within 60 feet of the degon must succeed at a DC 27 Will save or be shaken for 3d6 rounds; a creature that succeeds is immune to the degon’s aura for 24 hours. Keen Senses (ex): A degon sees twice as well as a human. Additionally, they can see perfectly in any lighting condition, even magical darkness, due to their devilish heritage. Finally, a degon always has Detect Magic and See Invisibility effects active on it. Regeneration (ex): Degons take normal damage from holy or blessed weapons of at least +3 enchantment. Spell-Like Abilities: At will- Animate Dead, Blasphemy, Create Undead, Deeper Darkness, Desecrate, Detect Thoughts, Fireball, Greater Dispelling, Improved Invisibility, Magic Circle Against Good, Major Image, Mass Charm, Mirror Image, Scorching Ray, Suggestion, Telekinesis, Teleport (greater), True Seeing, Unholy Aura, Unholy Blight, Unhallow, Wall of Fire, Wretched Blight; 3/day- Dominate Monster, Symbol (any); 1/day- Disintegrate, Fire Storm, Implosion, Meteor swarm; 1/week- Hellfire Storm. Caster level 20th; save DC 17+spell level Spells: Degons know and cast spells arcane spells as a 13th level sorceror, gaining bonus spells for a high charisma score. Summon Ally (sp): Twice per day a degon can automatically summon 1d4 gelugons or cornugons or one pit fiend, balor, or a degon. Weapon Training (su): Every degon is trained in the use of the greatsword and the whip, but most take up training with a favored weapon of their choice and gain a +10 to any attack with this weapon. This degon is trained in the halberd. Possessions: +4 Breastplate, +2 icy burst halberd
Sorcen_Anenooata 07-03-06, 03:24 PM	I was bored and decided to try a degon made from a dragon other than the normal ones, and I kinda wanted to bump my thread :D . I have no clue how to do the numbers as I said so I'm pretty sure the two-bladed sword's damage is wrong and I'm sure there's more wrong with it as well, let me know if ya'll find anything wrong. Degon (Radiant dragon parent, Two-Bladed Sword trained) Large Dragon (evil, extraplanar) Hit Dice: 20d12+140 (270 hp) Initiative: +7 (+3 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative) Speed: 60ft, Fly 120ft (good) Armor Class: 35 (+9 Armor (+4 Breastplate of Reflection), +3 Dex, +7 Deflection, +15 natural) Attack: Bite +30 melee (1d8+10) or two bladed sword +42 melee (1d8+17+1d6 fire) Full Attack: 1 bite +30 melee (1d8+10), 2 claws +28 melee (1d8+10), 2 wings +28 melee(1d6+10), 1 tail slap +28 melee (1d8+10) or two-bladed sword +42/+37/+32/+27 (1d8+17+1d6 fire) Space/Reach: 5ft by 5ft/10ft Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Spell-like Abilities, Spells, Summon Ally Special Qualities: Acid Resistance 20, Blindsight 100 ft, Cold resistance 20, DR 30/good, Death Throes, Hybrid Traits, Immunities, Infernal Aura, Keen Senses, Regeneration 10, SR 30, Telepathy 100 ft, Weapon Training Saves: Fort +26, Ref +22, Will +22 Abilities: Str 30, Dex 16, Con 24, Int 17, Wis 16, Cha 24 Skills: Balance +22, Bluff +30, Concentration +30, Intimidate +32, Knowledge (any one) +26, Listen +26, Sense Motive +26, Spot +26 Feats: Awesome Blow, Empower Spell-like Ability, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (claw), Multiattack, Power Attack, Snatch Environment: Any Challenge Rating: 18ish? Treasure: Double Standard Alignment: Usually lawful evil Level Adjustment: - This degon is 11.5 feet tall and has brilliant golden scales that seem to emit their own light. It weighs about 1300 lbs and has a slim but muscular build. It has a long thin tail, 5 fingered hands ending in razor sharp claws, a pair of great dragon wings growing from the shoulders (35 feet from tip to tip), and a face resembling a balor's. It wears a mirrorlike breastplate and weilds a flaming two-bladed sword. Combat Degons usually make the best use of their spell-like abilities before engaging in melee with their opponents. Since all degons can breathe a cone of hellfire, they use that breath weapon unless their other one would do better. Breath Weapon (su): Each Degon has two types of breath weapon, a cone of hellfire and a cone representing the parent dragon. Both of these cones are 50 feet long. The hellfire cone deals 8d10 damage; half of this is fire damage; the other half is unholy energy. The other cone deals 8d10 energy, dependent on the parent dragon (cold for white, fire for gold, etc) . Reflex DC 27 for half damage (Con based). In this particular case, the degon's second breath weapon is a cone of force. Death Throes (ex): When killed, a degon explodes in a flash of fiery energy that deals 30 points of damage to everything within 50 feet (Reflex half DC 27). Immunities: Degons are immune to electricity, fire, paralysis, poison, and sleep effects. Infernal Aura (su): the unholy power in a degon manifests as an aura of energy. The degon adds its Charisma modifier as a deflection bonus to AC, and as an unholy bonus to all saves (already calculated). Additonally, all creatures within 60 feet of the degon must succeed at a DC 27 Will save or be shaken for 3d6 rounds; a creature that succeeds is immune to the degon’s aura for 24 hours. Keen Senses (ex): A degon sees twice as well as a human. Additionally, they can see perfectly in any lighting condition, even magical darkness, due to their devilish heritage. Finally, a degon always has Detect Magic and See Invisibility effects active on it. Regeneration (ex): Degons take normal damage from holy or blessed weapons of at least +3 enchantment. Spell-Like Abilities: At will- Animate Dead, Blasphemy, Create Undead, Deeper Darkness, Desecrate, Detect Thoughts, Fireball, Greater Dispelling, Improved Invisibility, Magic Circle Against Good, Major Image, Mass Charm, Mirror Image, Scorching Ray, Suggestion, Telekinesis, Teleport (greater), True Seeing, Unholy Aura, Unholy Blight, Unhallow, Wall of Fire, Wretched Blight; 3/day- Dominate Monster, Symbol (any); 1/day- Disintegrate, Fire Storm, Implosion, Meteor swarm; 1/week- Hellfire Storm. Caster level 20th; save DC 17+spell level Spells: Degons know and cast spells arcane spells as a 13th level sorceror, gaining bonus spells for a high charisma score. Summon Ally (sp): Twice per day a degon can automatically summon 1d4 gelugons or cornugons or one pit fiend, balor, or a degon. Weapon Training (su): Every degon is trained in the use of the greatsword and the whip, but most take up training with a favored weapon of their choice and gain a +10 to any attack with this weapon. This degon is trained in the two-bladed sword. Possessions: +4 breastplate of reflection, +2 vorpal flame burst two-bladed sword
Kothardarastrix 07-03-06, 05:45 PM	I just noticed the hellfire breath weapon; that needs to go, Hellfire is used by Devils and some Diabolic Mortals, if a Devil/Demon Hybrid existed that had use of Hellfire, Mephistopheles would take a personal interest in eradicating these things from existance. While you may nor be too worried about that after seeing what WotC did to the Demon Prince's in Fiendish Codex I, most DMs agree that the BoVD stats were fine... for avatars, meaning the actual Demon Prince's and Devil Lords are gonna be close to CR 100 at least.
Sorcen_Anenooata 07-03-06, 07:06 PM	I just noticed the hellfire breath weapon; that needs to go, Hellfire is used by Devils and some Diabolic Mortals, if a Devil/Demon Hybrid existed that had use of Hellfire, Mephistopheles would take a personal interest in eradicating these things from existance. While you may nor be too worried about that after seeing what WotC did to the Demon Prince's in Fiendish Codex I, most DMs agree that the BoVD stats were fine... for avatars, meaning the actual Demon Prince's and Devil Lords are gonna be close to CR 100 at least. I understand what you mean, but in my campaign Sorcen is the ruler of Baator and his own hell in his own multiverse so Mephistopheles doesnt have any say, if he wants to keep his position and life that is, whether Sorcen's creations can have hellfire or not. Sorcen himself is a hybrid demon/devil so he tends to be biased towards hybrids. If you choose to use these in your own campaign, feel free to get rid of the hellfire or replace it with something else, maybe just make it full fire damage or full unholy damage, its not a hard item to change. As for the stats in the BoVD, I think it all depends on the DM's perception. I havent gotten the fiendish codex yet.
Kothardarastrix 07-04-06, 02:03 AM	Well, you can have Sorcen any way you want him, but the fact remains that whatever part of the Nine Hells Sorcen considers his domain is slipping into either Carceri, Hades, or Gehenna; Mephistopheles need only bide his time before Sorcen slips entirely into one of those planes and the 'loths have him turned into the lowest of rank of 'loth, and then either Asmodeus returns or Mephistopheles gets the title as the Overlord of the Nine Hells. :D
Doom_Linnorm 07-04-06, 02:55 AM	Mephistopholes FTW! But still, don't knock the idea, if it suits his campaign.. let it suit his campaign, no matter how much cooler Mephistopholes is then Asmodeus or almost any other fiedn for that matter he is still subject to the rules of the almight being that controls him..... THE DM!! *intimdating organ music*
Sorcen_Anenooata 07-04-06, 10:02 AM	I do agree that Mephistopholes is much cooler than any other fiend, except for Grazz't or Orcus, and in my game he actually has tried to take the throne a few times from Sorcen's father Necros and once from Sorcen and still plots on how to do it again. Actually because of this Mephistopholes rules in Sorcen's stead alot while Sorcen is in his own plane, but when sorcen returns Mephistopholes steps down from the throne without question because Sorcen is so much more powerful. Anyway my top five favorite fiends are Sorcen, Grazz't, Mephistopholes, Amon, Orcus. As I already said, this is just my campaign and If you want to use the degons for yours then just take the hellfire breathweapon away or change it, and if you want to kick them out of hell too go ahead.
Sorcen_Anenooata 07-05-06, 08:25 AM	Ok I give in, ya'll are right, I had the intention of making these for everyone else to use and forgot about that so here it is without hellfire so Mephistopholes will be happy. :D Degon Degon is an inherited template that can be applied to any dragon (hereafter referred to as the "base creature"). The creatures type changes to large dragon (evil, extraplanar). It uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except where noted here. Size and Type: Large Dragon (evil, extraplanar) Hit dice and Hit points: 20d12+140 (270 hp) Initiative: +7 (+3 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative) Speed: 60ft, Fly 120ft (good) Armor Class: 25 (+3 Dex, +7 Deflection, +15 natural) Attack: Bite +30 melee (1d8+10) Full Attack: 1 bite +30 melee (1d8+10), 2 claws +28 melee (1d8+10), 2 wings +28 melee(1d6+10), 1 tail slap +28 melee (1d8+10) Space/Reach: 5ft by 5ft/10ft Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Spell-like Abilities, Spells, Summon Ally Special Qualities: Acid Resistance 20, Blindsight 100 ft, Cold resistance 20, DR 30/good, Death Throes, Hybrid Traits, Immunities, Infernal Aura, Keen Senses, Regeneration 10, SR 30, Telepathy 100 ft, Weapon Training Saves: Fort +26, Ref +22, Will +22 Abilities: Str 30, Dex 16, Con 24, Int 20, Wis 17, Cha 24 Skills: Balance +22, Bluff +30, Concentration +30, Intimidate +32, Knowledge (any one) +26, Listen +26, Sense Motive +26, Spot +26 Feats: Awesome Blow, Empower Spell-like Ability, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (claw), Multiattack, Power Attack, Snatch Environment: Any Challenge Rating: ? depends on dragon parent, not sure how yet Treasure: Double Standard Alignment: Always any evil, if dragon parent was law then the degon will be law and same for chaos and neutral. Level Adjustment: - Degons look about the same generally but vary in color depending on the dragon heritage. All degons are about 10-12ft tall with a slim but muscular build and weigh in at around 1300 lbs. All have a long thin tail, 5 fingered hands ending in claws, a pair of great dragon wings growing from the shoulders (35 feet from tip to tip), and a face resembling a balor's. They usually wear magical armor when going into battle and weild magical weapons. Degons are a new race recently created by Sorcen and there are very few that have deserted Sorcen and lived. Sorcen experimented with a Bahamut degon by attacking Bahamut and getting some of his blood for the experiments, the platinum degon was very powerful and all, but it's good aligned nature was too strong and Sorcen had trouble with keeping the creature evil. Eventually the creature had to be destroyed for attempting to kill Sorcen. Further experimentation with this has been banned, but if successful Sorcen would surely reward the creator of it. The exact process to create a degon is unknown. A degon from Tiamat has not been tried yet since in my campaign world Tiamat is in the shadow dimension. These creatures were created by Sorcen by fusing the best qualities of demons, devils, and dragons. There are as many types of degons as there are dragons, for each of the colors and other types of dragons has been experimentated with and twisted with demons and devils (more specifically, pit fiends and balors) into a subspecies of degon for each subspecies of dragon. The many different subspecies makes them vary as much as the dragons in their abilities and powers. Combat Degons usually make the best use of their spell-like abilities before engaging in melee with their opponents. Since all degons can breathe a cone of fire, they use that breath weapon unless their other one would do better. Breath Weapon (su): Each Degon has two types of breath weapon, a cone of fire and a cone representing the parent dragon. Both of these cones are 50 feet long. The fire cone deals 8d10 fire damage. The other cone deals 8d10 energy, dependent on the parent dragon (cold for white, fire for gold, etc) . Reflex DC 27 for half damage (Con based) Death Throes (ex): When killed, a degon explodes in a flash of fiery energy that deals 30 points of damage to everything within 50 feet (Reflex half DC 27). Immunities: Degons are immune to electricity, fire, paralysis, poison, and sleep effects. Infernal Aura (su): the unholy power in a degon manifests as an aura of energy. The degon adds its Charisma modifier as a deflection bonus to AC, and as an unholy bonus to all saves (already calculated). Additonally, all creatures within 60 feet of the degon must succeed at a DC 27 Will save or be shaken for 3d6 rounds; a creature that succeeds is immune to the degon’s aura for 24 hours. Keen Senses (ex): A degon sees twice as well as a human. Additionally, they can see perfectly in any lighting condition, even magical darkness, due to their devilish heritage. Finally, a degon always has Detect Magic and See Invisibility effects active on it. Regeneration (ex): Degons take normal damage from holy or blessed weapons of at least +3 enchantment. Spell-Like Abilities: At will- Animate Dead, Blasphemy, Create Undead, Deeper Darkness, Desecrate, Detect Thoughts, Fireball, Greater Dispelling, Improved Invisibility, Magic Circle Against Good, Major Image, Mass Charm, Mirror Image, Scorching Ray, Suggestion, Telekinesis, Teleport (greater), True Seeing, Unholy Aura, Unholy Blight, Unhallow, Wall of Fire, Wretched Blight; 3/day- Dominate Monster, Symbol (any); 1/day- Disintegrate, Fire Storm, Implosion, Meteor swarm; 1/week- Flame Strike. Caster level 20th; save DC 17+spell level Spells: Degons know and cast spells arcane spells as a 13th level sorceror, gaining bonus spells for a high charisma score. Summon Ally (sp): Twice per day a degon can automatically summon 1d4 gelugons or cornugons or one pit fiend, balor, or a degon. Weapon Training (su): Every degon is trained in the use of the greatsword and the whip, but most take up training with a favored weapon of their choice and gain a +10 to any attack with this weapon. This degon is trained in the halberd. Possessions: Each degon possesses an enchanted weapon and usually some enchanted armor.
Kothardarastrix 07-05-06, 04:32 PM	Thank you for listening to reasoning, I wasn't gonna say anything, but my personal rule is don't post any creatures that require drastic changes to a campaigns cosmology.
Sorcen_Anenooata 07-05-06, 04:48 PM	Yeh I was in a grumpy mood yesterday and when people suggest changes sometimes people take it wrong and get mad, even if you ask for those suggestions its still hard to take in that somebody is telling you what your creation should be like, oh well I wont go into all the psychology. Anyway I forgot to get rid of the hellstorm 1/week in the spell-like abilities, so before I go back to edit it, any suggestions for what to change it to or should I just take it out completely? and then the next step is the CR I think, suggestions are welcome.
CryoSilver 07-05-06, 05:01 PM	Change it to Firestorm or Flame Strike
Sorcen_Anenooata 07-05-06, 05:35 PM	I changed it to flame strike, it already had firestorm and flame strike is stronger if I remember correctly. Thanks for the ideas. Now on to the CR, any ideas? I was thinking maybe 18-20 range.
CryoSilver 07-05-06, 05:41 PM	If you lower the SR, i"d say closer to 16.
Sorcen_Anenooata 07-05-06, 06:03 PM	Well by the flavor text, it's supposed to be stronger than balors and pit fiends. That has changed a little, I'd like it be in the 18-20 range. Explain the reasoning behind making it a CR 16 and suggest how much I should lower the SR to, or suggest how to make it a CR 18-20.
CryoSilver 07-05-06, 06:12 PM	It just doesn't feel like CR 20 to me, but I could be wrong; I have little knack for guessing CRs.
Sorcen_Anenooata 07-05-06, 06:46 PM	I created the degon's abilities by combing the features of balors, pit fiends, and dragons; just like the flavor says. In the beginning these were intended to be really strong, probably around CR 25. Now I've gone down to a more reasonable CR and if ya'll believe that CR 16 is reasonable for it then thats fine with me. Dont worry about not being able to calculate CR's, I have trouble with just about everything so dont feel bad :P .
ank 01-26-07, 08:52 PM	Sorcen, hi, hows it going? I followed your link here, read over all the posts, and find that nobody else has even touched the biggest, most broken part of your creation (which is pretty cool by the way. Also by the way, a fiendish radiant dragon?). Anyhow here's the problem, you've got your guy being a CR 16-20 as it is (i would say higher due to the ability to have hordes of undead, and its spell-like ability versitility) but that problem gets worse, over 3x worse, when you consider his ability to summon allies. You give him an AUTOMATIC summon of a pit fiend or balor (CR 20) or another Degon (CR 16-20). What this means is that when in trouble he can triple his effective Challenge Rating and dish out a serious TPK. I would suggest giving a 35% chance of success or so and allowing the use of it once per day. You should also add the clause that "Creatures summoned in this manor last for one hour and cannot use their summon abilities during this duration." or each of the summoned Degons could then automatically summon more degons.......etc. Now for some constructive critisism. For your feats, you may want to consider taking the quicken spell-like ability feat from Monster manual 3.5 so that a Degon can take advantage of its Physical prowess while still casting its awesome spells. You should also invest in quicken breath from the Draconomicon, which allows use of a breath weapon as a free action. If you want to solve your AC problem, you might want to invest in the Extend Spell feat from the players handbook. This allows you to double the duration of a spell, so that you could extend the duration of a mage armor to 26 hours! This is also where a quickened shield spell could come in handy. I would raise the CR for the Degon slightly (1 or 2) if you add 2 or more of these feats because they either allow a degon to have more actions per encounter, or raise its effective toughness to a level beyond its current CL. There is, of course, no reason to listen to all, or even any, of what I've said, but I hope that I've managed to help in some way.