Demon Dilemma [Archive] - Wizards Community

Demon Dilemma [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xyrael
07-13-05, 04:53 PM I need a demon from the Monster Manual I or III for use in a wilderness adventure. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Shemeska the Marauder
07-13-05, 06:46 PM What level are your PCs? How tough do you want it to be? And why would a fiend be in the wilderness randomly? (Some ideas of mine include: wandered through a random, naturally occuring gate from the Abyss, etc; set loose by a magical experiment of a wizard; released from an ancient binding circle in the depths of a ruined wizards tower deep in the wilderness, etc).

And do you specifically want a Tanar'ri (demon), or will other major types of fiends work as well (Yugoloths, Baatezu, etc)?
TyraaloftheFist
07-13-05, 09:51 PM I'd say there are five choices I always lean towards: Howlers, Bebiliths, Bezekirae(hellcat, plural...I think), Kytons(chain devils), and Hellhounds. All of these, I think, with the possible exception of the hellhound, are in the first monster manual.

Why those? For the most part, they look like animals...or you can't see them. Then there's mister Chainy there, who could hide his chains behind curtains of hanging moss or vines...or have vine-like chains. I just like kytons, anyway...but you'll need to give more information on why its there, how hard to kill it should be, etcetera.
Sildatorak
07-14-05, 01:32 AM I ran a fun "demon in the wilderness" side quest once. It was a flesh golem with an adamantine dire pick (1d8/x4 exotic weapon), a pair of CE humans, and a succubus who were mining adamantine ore from an exposed deposit. It was a sacred site to the local lizardfolk, and several had been found dead by the PC's...eventually a lizardfolk druid said that she would allow the PC's to tread on the sacred soil if they eliminated the other desecrators. Feel free to steal from that as much as you'd like.
Xyrael
07-14-05, 10:49 AM What level are your PCs? How tough do you want it to be? And why would a fiend be in the wilderness randomly? (Some ideas of mine include: wandered through a random, naturally occuring gate from the Abyss, etc; set loose by a magical experiment of a wizard; released from an ancient binding circle in the depths of a ruined wizards tower deep in the wilderness, etc).

And do you specifically want a Tanar'ri (demon), or will other major types of fiends work as well (Yugoloths, Baatezu, etc)? The party are level nine, I want one tough but not too tough so I can use some swarms at certain points.

I don't mind, as long as it is from the abyss.

It's part of a long campaign against demons that have been long-term summoned. Thanks for the help everyone else who has posted.
Shemeska the Marauder
07-14-05, 07:34 PM The party are level nine, I want one tough but not too tough so I can use some swarms at certain points.

I don't mind, as long as it is from the abyss.

It's part of a long campaign against demons that have been long-term summoned. Thanks for the help everyone else who has posted.

Bar-Lgura might work out. They're at CR 5, in the BoVD, and appear as hulking, ape-like creatures. In fact, I could see them being mistaken for some type of bloodthirsty, carnivorous ape by someone who didn't know better.

Babau might work at a CR 7 (BoVD), or CR 6 (MM 3.5)

Shadow Fiends (not Tanar'ri, but another race of Abyssal fiends) at CR 8, I've always enjoyed them, and they're utterly vicious at night or in a dark environment (forests at dusk, etc).

Chasme might be interesting just because of their insect aspect, flying ability etc in the rather unrestricting environment of a wilderness encounter. They're a CR 10.

And another non Tanar'ri Abyssal race, Bebeliths are damned amusing, and dangerous if you think that you're just fighting a big spider which is what they appear as. *chuckle* I had fun with them in a cave complex on a cliff face at the border of a grassland in Carceri (plane bordering the Abyss).
Xyrael
07-15-05, 01:35 PM Bar-Lgura might work out. They're at CR 5, in the BoVD, and appear as hulking, ape-like creatures. In fact, I could see them being mistaken for some type of bloodthirsty, carnivorous ape by someone who didn't know better.

Babau might work at a CR 7 (BoVD), or CR 6 (MM 3.5)

Shadow Fiends (not Tanar'ri, but another race of Abyssal fiends) at CR 8, I've always enjoyed them, and they're utterly vicious at night or in a dark environment (forests at dusk, etc).

Chasme might be interesting just because of their insect aspect, flying ability etc in the rather unrestricting environment of a wilderness encounter. They're a CR 10.

And another non Tanar'ri Abyssal race, Bebeliths are damned amusing, and dangerous if you think that you're just fighting a big spider which is what they appear as. *chuckle* I had fun with them in a cave complex on a cliff face at the border of a grassland in Carceri (plane bordering the Abyss).
Those sound like some good ideas :cool: , as soon as I get access to my books again I will take another look. That ape-like one sounds really good but I don't have the Book of Vile Darkness (I assume you were refering to that). Those other things look good.

I would like some suggestions from the Monster Manual 3 because I recently bought it and havn't had much use from it yet!
Shemeska the Marauder
07-15-05, 02:28 PM Those sound like some good ideas :cool: , as soon as I get access to my books again I will take another look. That ape-like one sounds really good but I don't have the Book of Vile Darkness (I assume you were refering to that). Those other things look good.

I would like some suggestions from the Monster Manual 3 because I recently bought it and havn't had much use from it yet!

Of the two 'demons' in the MM3, they're new. The arrow demons don't entirely make sense for Tanar'ri. They're described as being keen to fight in formation and use tactics, which is something that is anathema to Tanar'ri. The sorrowsworn Tanar'ri are'nt bad, but they seem more like yugoloths in disposition than Tanar'ri, but they might serve to be herded in number by Chasme, and work in encounters with them. I don't recall the CR of the sorrowsworn off the top of my head though.

I found them to be some of the less inspired critters in the MM3 (which was generally a mix of wierd and useless, and inspired and neat. About 50/50 of the two groups).
Xyrael
07-15-05, 03:22 PM Thankyou. I am now looking back on this topic and collating the various monsters to look them up.
Freefall
07-15-05, 03:43 PM I believe Sorrowsworn is CR 19. A bit much for 9th level characters, if you're having it fight them to the death. You could use a stronger demon that decides to leave them alive so it can have some fun and mess with their heads (Glabrezu might be good for that).

Otherwise, Shemeska's recommendations are good. And yeah, there are only two kinds of demons in MM3, one of which is more like a devil, and the other is really, really powerful.
DeadEye19
07-17-05, 03:16 PM The arrow demons don't entirely make sense for Tanar'ri. They're described as being keen to fight in formation and use tactics, which is something that is anathema to Tanar'ri.

Not sure about that. Yes, demons are very choatic by nature, but if something really works and is required to win a battle, why won't they use it? If the battle is tipping to their favor then yes, I guess they would break formation and fire who they want and as they please (which might be a bad idea), but as long as victory isn't assured, they would do their best to win.I mean, demons have generals, so why not formations(until it seems those are no longer needed)?

I really liked most of the monsters used (had only the chance to use a few though) from MM3. As far as demons go, I liked the sorrowsworn(CR17) better. Many of the monsters out there are quite devostating in melee, so beware.

Try making a babau with rouge levels that attack in swarms(or less than swarms for less TPK probability). A 6 CR monster made though.
Callahan
07-17-05, 03:29 PM it's because chaotic evil creatures are unorganized and unpredictable. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.

Thankfully Demons have a set agenda to battle against Devils and are organized in to armies by the Demon lords. However these armies don't rely on any specific tactics. In fact p160 of DMG had a nice picture of Devils and Demons doing battle, and you can clearly see how the Devils are organized in to tight formations while the Demons are a wave of assorted creatures.

In any case using any sort of tactics in a Demonic swarm is totally pointless.
Dackad
07-17-05, 05:16 PM In any case using any sort of tactics in a Demonic swarm is totally pointless.
Yet the Mariliths still try. :)

Anyways, here are some demonic conversions I've done.

Greater Babau, CR 13 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Babau.htm) (for a really nasty encounter...)
Ghorr, CR 12 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Ghorr.htm) (for another nasty encounter)
Chasme, CR 11 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Chasme.htm)
Buleazu, CR 8 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Buleazu.htm)
Palarthie, CR 8 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Palarthie.htm)
Maurezhi, CR 8 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Maurezhi.htm)
Bar-lgura, CR 6 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Bar-lgura.htm)
Uridezu, CR 6 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Uridezu.htm)
Rutterkin, CR 3 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Rutterkin.htm)

Hope these help out.
Xyrael
07-19-05, 04:35 PM Yet the Mariliths still try. :)

Anyways, here are some demonic conversions I've done.

Greater Babau, CR 13 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Babau.htm) (for a really nasty encounter...)
Ghorr, CR 12 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Ghorr.htm) (for another nasty encounter)
Chasme, CR 11 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Chasme.htm)
Buleazu, CR 8 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Buleazu.htm)
Palarthie, CR 8 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Palarthie.htm)
Maurezhi, CR 8 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Maurezhi.htm)
Bar-lgura, CR 6 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Bar-lgura.htm)
Uridezu, CR 6 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Uridezu.htm)
Rutterkin, CR 3 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Rutterkin.htm)

Hope these help out.Yes, they certainly do! :D

I think I am going to use the Bar-Igura because it will fit in with the setting, and in response to this debate over whether they will be organised or not, don't worry about it in this campaign setting. They are being controlled by divine forces at the top of the line, but many people are in between directing things. I don't want to say any more just in case my players find this topic! ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xyrael 07-13-05, 04:53 PM	I need a demon from the Monster Manual I or III for use in a wilderness adventure. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Shemeska the Marauder 07-13-05, 06:46 PM	What level are your PCs? How tough do you want it to be? And why would a fiend be in the wilderness randomly? (Some ideas of mine include: wandered through a random, naturally occuring gate from the Abyss, etc; set loose by a magical experiment of a wizard; released from an ancient binding circle in the depths of a ruined wizards tower deep in the wilderness, etc). And do you specifically want a Tanar'ri (demon), or will other major types of fiends work as well (Yugoloths, Baatezu, etc)?
TyraaloftheFist 07-13-05, 09:51 PM	I'd say there are five choices I always lean towards: Howlers, Bebiliths, Bezekirae(hellcat, plural...I think), Kytons(chain devils), and Hellhounds. All of these, I think, with the possible exception of the hellhound, are in the first monster manual. Why those? For the most part, they look like animals...or you can't see them. Then there's mister Chainy there, who could hide his chains behind curtains of hanging moss or vines...or have vine-like chains. I just like kytons, anyway...but you'll need to give more information on why its there, how hard to kill it should be, etcetera.
Sildatorak 07-14-05, 01:32 AM	I ran a fun "demon in the wilderness" side quest once. It was a flesh golem with an adamantine dire pick (1d8/x4 exotic weapon), a pair of CE humans, and a succubus who were mining adamantine ore from an exposed deposit. It was a sacred site to the local lizardfolk, and several had been found dead by the PC's...eventually a lizardfolk druid said that she would allow the PC's to tread on the sacred soil if they eliminated the other desecrators. Feel free to steal from that as much as you'd like.
Xyrael 07-14-05, 10:49 AM	What level are your PCs? How tough do you want it to be? And why would a fiend be in the wilderness randomly? (Some ideas of mine include: wandered through a random, naturally occuring gate from the Abyss, etc; set loose by a magical experiment of a wizard; released from an ancient binding circle in the depths of a ruined wizards tower deep in the wilderness, etc). And do you specifically want a Tanar'ri (demon), or will other major types of fiends work as well (Yugoloths, Baatezu, etc)? The party are level nine, I want one tough but not too tough so I can use some swarms at certain points. I don't mind, as long as it is from the abyss. It's part of a long campaign against demons that have been long-term summoned. Thanks for the help everyone else who has posted.
Shemeska the Marauder 07-14-05, 07:34 PM	The party are level nine, I want one tough but not too tough so I can use some swarms at certain points. I don't mind, as long as it is from the abyss. It's part of a long campaign against demons that have been long-term summoned. Thanks for the help everyone else who has posted. Bar-Lgura might work out. They're at CR 5, in the BoVD, and appear as hulking, ape-like creatures. In fact, I could see them being mistaken for some type of bloodthirsty, carnivorous ape by someone who didn't know better. Babau might work at a CR 7 (BoVD), or CR 6 (MM 3.5) Shadow Fiends (not Tanar'ri, but another race of Abyssal fiends) at CR 8, I've always enjoyed them, and they're utterly vicious at night or in a dark environment (forests at dusk, etc). Chasme might be interesting just because of their insect aspect, flying ability etc in the rather unrestricting environment of a wilderness encounter. They're a CR 10. And another non Tanar'ri Abyssal race, Bebeliths are damned amusing, and dangerous if you think that you're just fighting a big spider which is what they appear as. chuckle I had fun with them in a cave complex on a cliff face at the border of a grassland in Carceri (plane bordering the Abyss).
Xyrael 07-15-05, 01:35 PM	Bar-Lgura might work out. They're at CR 5, in the BoVD, and appear as hulking, ape-like creatures. In fact, I could see them being mistaken for some type of bloodthirsty, carnivorous ape by someone who didn't know better. Babau might work at a CR 7 (BoVD), or CR 6 (MM 3.5) Shadow Fiends (not Tanar'ri, but another race of Abyssal fiends) at CR 8, I've always enjoyed them, and they're utterly vicious at night or in a dark environment (forests at dusk, etc). Chasme might be interesting just because of their insect aspect, flying ability etc in the rather unrestricting environment of a wilderness encounter. They're a CR 10. And another non Tanar'ri Abyssal race, Bebeliths are damned amusing, and dangerous if you think that you're just fighting a big spider which is what they appear as. chuckle I had fun with them in a cave complex on a cliff face at the border of a grassland in Carceri (plane bordering the Abyss). Those sound like some good ideas :cool: , as soon as I get access to my books again I will take another look. That ape-like one sounds really good but I don't have the Book of Vile Darkness (I assume you were refering to that). Those other things look good. I would like some suggestions from the Monster Manual 3 because I recently bought it and havn't had much use from it yet!
Shemeska the Marauder 07-15-05, 02:28 PM	Those sound like some good ideas :cool: , as soon as I get access to my books again I will take another look. That ape-like one sounds really good but I don't have the Book of Vile Darkness (I assume you were refering to that). Those other things look good. I would like some suggestions from the Monster Manual 3 because I recently bought it and havn't had much use from it yet! Of the two 'demons' in the MM3, they're new. The arrow demons don't entirely make sense for Tanar'ri. They're described as being keen to fight in formation and use tactics, which is something that is anathema to Tanar'ri. The sorrowsworn Tanar'ri are'nt bad, but they seem more like yugoloths in disposition than Tanar'ri, but they might serve to be herded in number by Chasme, and work in encounters with them. I don't recall the CR of the sorrowsworn off the top of my head though. I found them to be some of the less inspired critters in the MM3 (which was generally a mix of wierd and useless, and inspired and neat. About 50/50 of the two groups).
Xyrael 07-15-05, 03:22 PM	Thankyou. I am now looking back on this topic and collating the various monsters to look them up.
Freefall 07-15-05, 03:43 PM	I believe Sorrowsworn is CR 19. A bit much for 9th level characters, if you're having it fight them to the death. You could use a stronger demon that decides to leave them alive so it can have some fun and mess with their heads (Glabrezu might be good for that). Otherwise, Shemeska's recommendations are good. And yeah, there are only two kinds of demons in MM3, one of which is more like a devil, and the other is really, really powerful.
DeadEye19 07-17-05, 03:16 PM	The arrow demons don't entirely make sense for Tanar'ri. They're described as being keen to fight in formation and use tactics, which is something that is anathema to Tanar'ri. Not sure about that. Yes, demons are very choatic by nature, but if something really works and is required to win a battle, why won't they use it? If the battle is tipping to their favor then yes, I guess they would break formation and fire who they want and as they please (which might be a bad idea), but as long as victory isn't assured, they would do their best to win.I mean, demons have generals, so why not formations(until it seems those are no longer needed)? I really liked most of the monsters used (had only the chance to use a few though) from MM3. As far as demons go, I liked the sorrowsworn(CR17) better. Many of the monsters out there are quite devostating in melee, so beware. Try making a babau with rouge levels that attack in swarms(or less than swarms for less TPK probability). A 6 CR monster made though.
Callahan 07-17-05, 03:29 PM	it's because chaotic evil creatures are unorganized and unpredictable. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him. Thankfully Demons have a set agenda to battle against Devils and are organized in to armies by the Demon lords. However these armies don't rely on any specific tactics. In fact p160 of DMG had a nice picture of Devils and Demons doing battle, and you can clearly see how the Devils are organized in to tight formations while the Demons are a wave of assorted creatures. In any case using any sort of tactics in a Demonic swarm is totally pointless.
Dackad 07-17-05, 05:16 PM	In any case using any sort of tactics in a Demonic swarm is totally pointless. Yet the Mariliths still try. :) Anyways, here are some demonic conversions I've done. Greater Babau, CR 13 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Babau.htm) (for a really nasty encounter...) Ghorr, CR 12 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Ghorr.htm) (for another nasty encounter) Chasme, CR 11 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Chasme.htm) Buleazu, CR 8 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Buleazu.htm) Palarthie, CR 8 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Palarthie.htm) Maurezhi, CR 8 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Maurezhi.htm) Bar-lgura, CR 6 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Bar-lgura.htm) Uridezu, CR 6 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Uridezu.htm) Rutterkin, CR 3 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Rutterkin.htm) Hope these help out.
Xyrael 07-19-05, 04:35 PM	Yet the Mariliths still try. :) Anyways, here are some demonic conversions I've done. Greater Babau, CR 13 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Babau.htm) (for a really nasty encounter...) Ghorr, CR 12 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Ghorr.htm) (for another nasty encounter) Chasme, CR 11 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Chasme.htm) Buleazu, CR 8 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Buleazu.htm) Palarthie, CR 8 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Palarthie.htm) Maurezhi, CR 8 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Maurezhi.htm) Bar-lgura, CR 6 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Bar-lgura.htm) Uridezu, CR 6 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Uridezu.htm) Rutterkin, CR 3 (http://www.geocities.com/paranoidus_maximus/Rutterkin.htm) Hope these help out.Yes, they certainly do! :D I think I am going to use the Bar-Igura because it will fit in with the setting, and in response to this debate over whether they will be organised or not, don't worry about it in this campaign setting. They are being controlled by divine forces at the top of the line, but many people are in between directing things. I don't want to say any more just in case my players find this topic! ;)