Demons and Angels [Archive] - Wizards Community

Demons and Angels [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Endarire
10-10-03, 02:44 PM Why are demons and devils called demons and devils but angels celestrials and solars?

-EE
Mordenkainen's Rubber Duck of DOOM
10-10-03, 02:46 PM Demons- Chaotic Evil Fiends
Devils- Lawful Evil Fiends
Gehereliths/Yugoloths- Neutral Evil Fiends
Fiends- Any Evil

Archons- Lawful Good Celestials
Guardianials- Chatoic Good Celestials
Eladrinae- Neutral Good Celestials
Angels- Any Good

At least, that's how I remember it. I might eb wrong on the Celestials part.

The reason they aren't called Angels as a whole isntead of Celestials is because while many are Angelic, the Guardinials are not what you'd usually call Angels (They're basically anthropomorphic celestial animals)
Incenjucar
10-10-03, 02:47 PM Um.. solars are a TYPE of angel, and angels are a TYPE of celestial...
Incenjucar
10-10-03, 02:48 PM Which makes me wonder why there aren't 'any evil' fiends... hrmn...

Darn those yugoloths and their refusal of multi-alignmentism.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
10-10-03, 03:18 PM Originally posted by Mordenkainen's Rubber Duck of DOOM
Demons- Chaotic Evil Fiends
Devils- Lawful Evil Fiends
Gehereliths/Yugoloths- Neutral Evil Fiends
Fiends- Any Evil

Archons- Lawful Good Celestials
Guardianials- Chatoic Good Celestials
Eladrinae- Neutral Good Celestials
Angels- Any Good

At least, that's how I remember it. I might eb wrong on the Celestials part.

The reason they aren't called Angels as a whole isntead of Celestials is because while many are Angelic, the Guardinials are not what you'd usually call Angels (They're basically anthropomorphic celestial animals)

Actually, it's just Eladrin.
The Gray
10-10-03, 03:24 PM Originally posted by Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
Actually, it's just Eladrin.

And eladrin are chaotic good, not neytral good. Guardinals are NG.

And, yes, angels are specific type of celestial; and not all celestials are very angelic.

Was there a point you were trying to make by asking, or were you just curious?
MightyMightyThundarr
10-10-03, 03:25 PM Actually, Eladrin are CG, and Guardinals are NG.
Angels are a type of celestial that can be any good alignment.
"celestial" is a blanket term that can describe any outsider with the good subtype, just as "fiend" describes any outsider with the evil subtype.

The reason they aren't called Angels as a whole isntead of Celestials is because while many are Angelic, the Guardinials are not what you'd usually call Angels (They're basically anthropomorphic celestial animals)

Eladrin aren't prototypical "angels" by any sense of the word, either. Archons may come closer, as some of the more powerful ones definitely draw from biblical roots. Only the angels are referred to as "angels", however, because they are the ones that really match the stereotypical appearance and attitude of an angel.

By the way, I think Prince Talisid might be a bit bemused if he heard you saying that he was little more than an anthropomorphic celesial lion ;)
Mordenkainen's Rubber Duck of DOOM
10-10-03, 03:39 PM Originally posted by MightyMightyThundarr
By the way, I think Prince Talisid might be a bit bemused if he heard you saying that he was little more than an anthropomorphic celesial lion ;)

I'm not telling him until I gain some levels.... :P

And oops, yes, I did switch the Eladrin (plural of Eladrin is Eladrinae, right?) and Guardinals.
Incenjucar
10-10-03, 03:46 PM Many outsider names tend to sound better when you don't modify them for plural.

"A Baatezu" = "Those Baatezu"

"An Eladrin" = "Those Eladrin"

"A Tanari'ri" = "Those Tanar'ri"

"An aasimar" = "Those aasimar"

"An aasimon" = "Those aasimon"

"A Ghereleth" = "Those Ghereleth"

Of course, the books don't always agree with me, but, in general, I'd avoid throwing in any modifications if it can be helped.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
10-10-03, 03:54 PM Yep. All of the major planar races except the yugoloths, the slaadi, and the modrons have the plural versions of their names spelled identically to the singular versions of their names.

And does anyone else think that the Charisma of some of the eladrin needs to be upped?
Mordenkainen's Rubber Duck of DOOM
10-10-03, 06:53 PM Originally posted by Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
Yep. All of the major planar races except the yugoloths, the slaadi, and the modrons have the plural versions of their names spelled identically to the singular versions of their names.

And does anyone else think that the Charisma of some of the eladrin needs to be upped?

I need to find them. All my books have are Ghaele from the MM, and MotP's Firre.
Incenjucar
10-10-03, 07:03 PM Don't forget:

"An archon" = "Those archons".

"A guardinal" = "Those guardinals"

Etc.

Honestly, in all of these cases, there's no NEED to use a plural form.

"Those Yugoloth"

"Those slaad"

"Those modron"

But, eh. Whatcha gonna do.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
10-10-03, 09:18 PM I'm thinking of the picture of the ghaele from the AD&D 2e Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix II. Rowwr.
MightyMightyThundarr
10-10-03, 10:05 PM That ghaele didn't have anything on the aasimar though ;)
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
10-10-03, 10:07 PM Yeah. Hubba Hubba.
Gez
10-11-03, 02:02 AM I think the plural of slaad is slaadi.

It could also be the same for the fiends with a l*th name (gehrelethi, yugolothi, marilithi).

Modrons sounds as good a plural as morons or mormons.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Endarire 10-10-03, 02:44 PM	Why are demons and devils called demons and devils but angels celestrials and solars? -EE
Mordenkainen's Rubber Duck of DOOM 10-10-03, 02:46 PM	Demons- Chaotic Evil Fiends Devils- Lawful Evil Fiends Gehereliths/Yugoloths- Neutral Evil Fiends Fiends- Any Evil Archons- Lawful Good Celestials Guardianials- Chatoic Good Celestials Eladrinae- Neutral Good Celestials Angels- Any Good At least, that's how I remember it. I might eb wrong on the Celestials part. The reason they aren't called Angels as a whole isntead of Celestials is because while many are Angelic, the Guardinials are not what you'd usually call Angels (They're basically anthropomorphic celestial animals)
Incenjucar 10-10-03, 02:47 PM	Um.. solars are a TYPE of angel, and angels are a TYPE of celestial...
Incenjucar 10-10-03, 02:48 PM	Which makes me wonder why there aren't 'any evil' fiends... hrmn... Darn those yugoloths and their refusal of multi-alignmentism.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 10-10-03, 03:18 PM	Originally posted by Mordenkainen's Rubber Duck of DOOM Demons- Chaotic Evil Fiends Devils- Lawful Evil Fiends Gehereliths/Yugoloths- Neutral Evil Fiends Fiends- Any Evil Archons- Lawful Good Celestials Guardianials- Chatoic Good Celestials Eladrinae- Neutral Good Celestials Angels- Any Good At least, that's how I remember it. I might eb wrong on the Celestials part. The reason they aren't called Angels as a whole isntead of Celestials is because while many are Angelic, the Guardinials are not what you'd usually call Angels (They're basically anthropomorphic celestial animals) Actually, it's just Eladrin.
The Gray 10-10-03, 03:24 PM	Originally posted by Raymond_Luxury_Yacht Actually, it's just Eladrin. And eladrin are chaotic good, not neytral good. Guardinals are NG. And, yes, angels are specific type of celestial; and not all celestials are very angelic. Was there a point you were trying to make by asking, or were you just curious?
MightyMightyThundarr 10-10-03, 03:25 PM	Actually, Eladrin are CG, and Guardinals are NG. Angels are a type of celestial that can be any good alignment. "celestial" is a blanket term that can describe any outsider with the good subtype, just as "fiend" describes any outsider with the evil subtype. The reason they aren't called Angels as a whole isntead of Celestials is because while many are Angelic, the Guardinials are not what you'd usually call Angels (They're basically anthropomorphic celestial animals) Eladrin aren't prototypical "angels" by any sense of the word, either. Archons may come closer, as some of the more powerful ones definitely draw from biblical roots. Only the angels are referred to as "angels", however, because they are the ones that really match the stereotypical appearance and attitude of an angel. By the way, I think Prince Talisid might be a bit bemused if he heard you saying that he was little more than an anthropomorphic celesial lion ;)
Mordenkainen's Rubber Duck of DOOM 10-10-03, 03:39 PM	Originally posted by MightyMightyThundarr By the way, I think Prince Talisid might be a bit bemused if he heard you saying that he was little more than an anthropomorphic celesial lion ;) I'm not telling him until I gain some levels.... :P And oops, yes, I did switch the Eladrin (plural of Eladrin is Eladrinae, right?) and Guardinals.
Incenjucar 10-10-03, 03:46 PM	Many outsider names tend to sound better when you don't modify them for plural. "A Baatezu" = "Those Baatezu" "An Eladrin" = "Those Eladrin" "A Tanari'ri" = "Those Tanar'ri" "An aasimar" = "Those aasimar" "An aasimon" = "Those aasimon" "A Ghereleth" = "Those Ghereleth" Of course, the books don't always agree with me, but, in general, I'd avoid throwing in any modifications if it can be helped.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 10-10-03, 03:54 PM	Yep. All of the major planar races except the yugoloths, the slaadi, and the modrons have the plural versions of their names spelled identically to the singular versions of their names. And does anyone else think that the Charisma of some of the eladrin needs to be upped?
Mordenkainen's Rubber Duck of DOOM 10-10-03, 06:53 PM	Originally posted by Raymond_Luxury_Yacht Yep. All of the major planar races except the yugoloths, the slaadi, and the modrons have the plural versions of their names spelled identically to the singular versions of their names. And does anyone else think that the Charisma of some of the eladrin needs to be upped? I need to find them. All my books have are Ghaele from the MM, and MotP's Firre.
Incenjucar 10-10-03, 07:03 PM	Don't forget: "An archon" = "Those archons". "A guardinal" = "Those guardinals" Etc. Honestly, in all of these cases, there's no NEED to use a plural form. "Those Yugoloth" "Those slaad" "Those modron" But, eh. Whatcha gonna do.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 10-10-03, 09:18 PM	I'm thinking of the picture of the ghaele from the AD&D 2e Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix II. Rowwr.
MightyMightyThundarr 10-10-03, 10:05 PM	That ghaele didn't have anything on the aasimar though ;)
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 10-10-03, 10:07 PM	Yeah. Hubba Hubba.
Gez 10-11-03, 02:02 AM	I think the plural of slaad is slaadi. It could also be the same for the fiends with a l*th name (gehrelethi, yugolothi, marilithi). Modrons sounds as good a plural as morons or mormons.