Demons for low-level campaigns [Archive] - Wizards Community

Demons for low-level campaigns [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Seraphine_Harmonium
08-28-06, 01:45 AM I am running a Campaign which is centered around a demonic invasion, however, the campaign starts with characters at relatively low levels. While at the earliest stages the demons have not yet arrived, the moment when they do is not far away. Therefore, I need some low CR demons they can face. Tieflings and Fiendish and Half-fiend templates only go so far.
These can be from any source, official, unofficial, core, non-core. Though I think I have the core ones pretty much covered.

Thanks, and if you get the chance, stop by Avayevnon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=663352&page=1)and take a peek.
Morka
08-28-06, 08:35 AM What about low-level cultists?
General_Ridley
08-28-06, 10:37 AM Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss has a list of demons published and organized by CR.

some low-level demons:

CR 1 demon: Mane (FC:I)
CR 2 demons: Dretch and Quasit (MM), Abyssal Maw and Abyssal Skulker (MM2),
CR 3 demons: Abyssal Ravager (MM2), Rutterkin (FC:I)
CR 4 demons: ekolid and guecubu (FC:I), skulvyn (Fiend Folio)
CR 5 demons: bar-lgura and juvenile nabassu (FC:I)

that should be a arge enough list. I left several out, but I figured if I limitedit to a few books, it would be fine. The juvenile nabassu can be found in one of the previews for the Fiendish Codex, so you can get that one for free if you don't have the book.
Ysera_the_destroyer
08-28-06, 12:52 PM I was in a 3 person first level campaign and we took down a rudderkin, 2 dretches and a mane (not all at the same time). That should bring them up to 2nd level in which case you can use better creatures. Dont start them off by fighting hordes of demons and devils. Start with sort of like a cultist killing, inquisition sort of thing with the occasional summoned demon to kill, Then work your way up. By the way, rudderkins make great dungeon bosses.
Seraphine_Harmonium
08-28-06, 02:33 PM The first encounters were with cultists, although there was a quasit or two involved. Later they fight a Fey-ri tiefling (Monsters of Faerun). They have one more little mini adventure with more cultists (more powerful than the first cultists) and some minor summoned demons. Then they start facing off against the real demons.
If anyone wants more specifics, ask about it in my Avayevnon thread in the Campaign Workshop.
Return of the Flumph
08-28-06, 03:39 PM Fiendish animals (not half fiends) can fill in the blanks easily. Slapping the fiendish template on something as mundane as a dire rat or an eagle is a good way to make low level demonic encounters.

It is also possible that the demons are sending undead troops (skeletons, zombies, ghouls, etc.) ahead of the main invasion force, and that they may have other extraplanar creatures (vargouilles and howlers are two of my favorite demonic pets) serving them.
Seraphine_Harmonium
08-28-06, 04:39 PM Fiendish animals (not half fiends) can fill in the blanks easily. Slapping the fiendish template on something as mundane as a dire rat or an eagle is a good way to make low level demonic encounters.

It is also possible that the demons are sending undead troops (skeletons, zombies, ghouls, etc.) ahead of the main invasion force, and that they may have other extraplanar creatures (vargouilles and howlers are two of my favorite demonic pets) serving them.
No disrespect intended, but I did say that I wasn't looking for ways to use the Fiendish template.
I hadn't really though of using undead though. I supppose the undead souls of the chaotic evil would be usable as fodder for demon armies. I will make note of that.
bhu
08-28-06, 05:54 PM Careful with those Monster Manual 2 demons. A Dretch and an Abyssal Maw may both be CR2, but the maw tends to be a lot nastier.
Return of the Flumph
08-29-06, 03:30 AM Careful with those Monster Manual 2 demons. A Dretch and an Abyssal Maw may both be CR2, but the maw tends to be a lot nastier.

I learned that the hard way. The only purpose an abyssal maw serves is for the DM to kill a PC.
runestar
08-29-06, 05:26 AM You could consider using SS handbook and creating scaled down versions of more powerful demons...:P
GeminiDreams
08-29-06, 05:40 AM Couldnt you just take a really messed up aberration or magical animal and give it demonic traits? Maybe the animal was used as a sacrifice for a demonic ritual and then the left over body was used to transfer over a demonic entity to the plane. An example could be like.. giving a Bugbear demonic traits, affecting it's image. So effectively, it becomes a Demonic Bugbear.
Blaze_the_Dragon
08-29-06, 10:29 AM They're acctually Devils....But did you consider Spriggans?

Basically scouts/Spies....Small little feckers who attack in swarms....Can be moderatly scary...Less any of your PCs wear armour....
alchemyprime
08-29-06, 01:38 PM http://dndadventure.com/dnda_dm_resources.html

Go to this site, and there is a tool called the Demon Construction Matrix. It's a PDF. Just open Word, grab your dice, and make a demon for whatever Challenge rating you need. I made a good CR11 called a Blood Woolf. It was a wolf shaped ooze, not unlike a lemure, but much meaner, and with a breath weapon. They are just plain mean. :D

Or, you know, make a feindish Anarchiac Dire Rat and callit a Ratot or something. I dunno.:P
Seraphine_Harmonium
08-29-06, 02:41 PM http://dndadventure.com/dnda_dm_resources.html

Go to this site, and there is a tool called the Demon Construction Matrix. It's a PDF. Just open Word, grab your dice, and make a demon for whatever Challenge rating you need. I made a good CR11 called a Blood Woolf. It was a wolf shaped ooze, not unlike a lemure, but much meaner, and with a breath weapon. They are just plain mean. :D

Or, you know, make a feindish Anarchiac Dire Rat and callit a Ratot or something. I dunno.:P
Awesome site! I tried out the Demon Construction Matrix and it's cool. thanks a lot.
Seraphine_Harmonium
09-10-06, 10:04 PM Are there any more ideas out there? I suppose with a demon construction matrix, the possibilities are endless, but I'm always looking for new demons.
Morka
09-11-06, 11:09 AM You could check the D20 Modern SRD, in the monsters section or the Urban Arcana monsters section. There are some suggestions on how to create demons with funny special features. For example, you can roll that the specific demon has some fluffy bunny dependency, so you can use a fluffy bunny as bait to catch and/or kill that demon; or the demon could have a weakness toward the color red. It makes for a Buffy-like demon hunting, not hack-and-slash, but it can be an interresting twist.

Also, you could use some templates: Shadow Creature, Wood Creature, Pseudonatural creature, etc.
DaveTheMagicWeasel
09-11-06, 06:01 PM Mastering Iron Heroes has the Demonic Brute Villain class. You could just use that to make a couple of low level demons.

Or there's the Tomar of Uointer's Outsider Class (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8260222#post8260222)
Seraphine_Harmonium
09-14-06, 11:02 PM Thanks everyone, if we can get any more demons, I'd like to hear about them. Otherwise I suppose I can make do with what we've got here.
Manshoon13
09-19-06, 07:57 PM Seraphine, I have stolen all the ideas from this thread, thanks. I am currently running a Demon based game as well as you, and just like you I am scrambling for Demons. So I we can ever share ideas sometime please do.:D
Cameron_DuModre
09-19-06, 09:50 PM I'm curious as to why templates aren't enough. You can do anything with templates and lower/strengthen them as need be until you can reach the bigger demons.

In my current campaign a demonic cult is going to be the "BBE" in the first levels of the campaign. (Of course the players are actually working for the BBEG without knowing it, wiping out her rivals in the cult) They've been fighting 'hell beasts' (half-demon wolves with bat wings, scales, and humanoid front arms with three clawed digits that have been toned down *slightly*)

The fact that it's a template means that my players have less OOC knowledge on how to counter them or what the hell they are. I can describe them however I want.

I will say that Imps, when used right, are deadly to low-level parties thanks to their invisibility and poison.
Seraphine_Harmonium
09-19-06, 09:59 PM It's more a matter of wanting to use real demons as opposed to slapping the fiendish template on any old thing and calling it a demon.
It's not that I won't be using the templates at all either. I will. I just wanted to find as many real demons of low enough power to choose from as possible.
Thomar_of_Uointer
09-20-06, 03:34 PM http://www.kobolds-keep.net/Progressions.pdf

There ya' go. :cool:
You should be looking at Evil-focused Outsiders, and you can probably redistribute ability scores, add class levels, or any other ideas you can come up with for infinite variation.
Red Dragon
09-20-06, 06:45 PM My first actual homebrew demon (http://www.planetadnd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2096&start=0)

I've made plenty of CE outsiders, but no tanar'ri. These things are pretty good, though. I like the image. Minor conversions are needed (changing DR /+1 to DR /cold iron, if I recall my 3.5 correctly), but it should be sound enough.
RLRapp
09-20-06, 09:15 PM It's more a matter of wanting to use real demons as opposed to slapping the fiendish template on any old thing and calling it a demon.
It's not that I won't be using the templates at all either. I will. I just wanted to find as many real demons of low enough power to choose from as possible.

Kind of avariety show campaign, huh.
Khael
09-21-06, 02:10 PM It's more a matter of wanting to use real demons as opposed to slapping the fiendish template on any old thing and calling it a demon.
It's not that I won't be using the templates at all either. I will. I just wanted to find as many real demons of low enough power to choose from as possible.

Low CR true demons are meant to attack in hordes, the templates let you use a few together or a solo low-CR fiend.

Remember in the blood war, demons have the immense armies vs the smaller more elite devils. Any character will knowledge of the blood war will probably know this. Hence any low-CR specific demon, will probably be more worrying character-wise than a handful of fiendish creatures, since it implies there are many many more demons on the way.
This be an important thing to consider, since it affects the feel of the game.
I'd expect to maybe see a few fiendish packs overall in a low-level game. If I were the character and I saw a single dretch...that means it should have f(r)iends. Many of them.
Seraphine_Harmonium
09-24-06, 04:43 PM Low CR true demons are meant to attack in hordes, the templates let you use a few together or a solo low-CR fiend.

Remember in the blood war, demons have the immense armies vs the smaller more elite devils. Any character will knowledge of the blood war will probably know this. Hence any low-CR specific demon, will probably be more worrying character-wise than a handful of fiendish creatures, since it implies there are many many more demons on the way.
This be an important thing to consider, since it affects the feel of the game.
I'd expect to maybe see a few fiendish packs overall in a low-level game. If I were the character and I saw a single dretch...that means it should have f(r)iends. Many of them.
Well, there are more on the way. A lot more. Still, the purpose is not to kill everything, but to gain as much control as possible (through as many new followers as possible). In any case, the current number of true demons available, plus templates should give me all I need. I may also use some undead, as the Tyrantfog Zombie (Mosters of Faerun) fits the flavor surprisingly well.
Khael
09-24-06, 04:56 PM You misunderstand, not more on the way in campaign terms, of course there should be more there. I mean more on the way in that area alone. 1 dretch with some 10 friends for example.
Seraphine_Harmonium
09-24-06, 05:13 PM You misunderstand, not more on the way in campaign terms, of course there should be more there. I mean more on the way in that area alone. 1 dretch with some 10 friends for example.
Oh, like the way you never get just one wolf. They travel in packs. So if you see a dretch, there's bound to be more. Yeah, I agree. There are still a lot more coming, in campaign terms, but as far as adventures and combat go, they won't be fighting whole armies at once. Usually.;)
primemover003
09-25-06, 08:19 PM They're acctually Devils....But did you consider Spriggans?

Basically scouts/Spies....Small little feckers who attack in swarms....Can be moderatly scary...Less any of your PCs wear armour....
I think you mean Spinagons. Spriggans are evil gnomelike Fey that can become Large sized.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Seraphine_Harmonium 08-28-06, 01:45 AM	I am running a Campaign which is centered around a demonic invasion, however, the campaign starts with characters at relatively low levels. While at the earliest stages the demons have not yet arrived, the moment when they do is not far away. Therefore, I need some low CR demons they can face. Tieflings and Fiendish and Half-fiend templates only go so far. These can be from any source, official, unofficial, core, non-core. Though I think I have the core ones pretty much covered. Thanks, and if you get the chance, stop by Avayevnon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=663352&page=1)and take a peek.
Morka 08-28-06, 08:35 AM	What about low-level cultists?
General_Ridley 08-28-06, 10:37 AM	Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss has a list of demons published and organized by CR. some low-level demons: CR 1 demon: Mane (FC:I) CR 2 demons: Dretch and Quasit (MM), Abyssal Maw and Abyssal Skulker (MM2), CR 3 demons: Abyssal Ravager (MM2), Rutterkin (FC:I) CR 4 demons: ekolid and guecubu (FC:I), skulvyn (Fiend Folio) CR 5 demons: bar-lgura and juvenile nabassu (FC:I) that should be a arge enough list. I left several out, but I figured if I limitedit to a few books, it would be fine. The juvenile nabassu can be found in one of the previews for the Fiendish Codex, so you can get that one for free if you don't have the book.
Ysera_the_destroyer 08-28-06, 12:52 PM	I was in a 3 person first level campaign and we took down a rudderkin, 2 dretches and a mane (not all at the same time). That should bring them up to 2nd level in which case you can use better creatures. Dont start them off by fighting hordes of demons and devils. Start with sort of like a cultist killing, inquisition sort of thing with the occasional summoned demon to kill, Then work your way up. By the way, rudderkins make great dungeon bosses.
Seraphine_Harmonium 08-28-06, 02:33 PM	The first encounters were with cultists, although there was a quasit or two involved. Later they fight a Fey-ri tiefling (Monsters of Faerun). They have one more little mini adventure with more cultists (more powerful than the first cultists) and some minor summoned demons. Then they start facing off against the real demons. If anyone wants more specifics, ask about it in my Avayevnon thread in the Campaign Workshop.
Return of the Flumph 08-28-06, 03:39 PM	Fiendish animals (not half fiends) can fill in the blanks easily. Slapping the fiendish template on something as mundane as a dire rat or an eagle is a good way to make low level demonic encounters. It is also possible that the demons are sending undead troops (skeletons, zombies, ghouls, etc.) ahead of the main invasion force, and that they may have other extraplanar creatures (vargouilles and howlers are two of my favorite demonic pets) serving them.
Seraphine_Harmonium 08-28-06, 04:39 PM	Fiendish animals (not half fiends) can fill in the blanks easily. Slapping the fiendish template on something as mundane as a dire rat or an eagle is a good way to make low level demonic encounters. It is also possible that the demons are sending undead troops (skeletons, zombies, ghouls, etc.) ahead of the main invasion force, and that they may have other extraplanar creatures (vargouilles and howlers are two of my favorite demonic pets) serving them. No disrespect intended, but I did say that I wasn't looking for ways to use the Fiendish template. I hadn't really though of using undead though. I supppose the undead souls of the chaotic evil would be usable as fodder for demon armies. I will make note of that.
bhu 08-28-06, 05:54 PM	Careful with those Monster Manual 2 demons. A Dretch and an Abyssal Maw may both be CR2, but the maw tends to be a lot nastier.
Return of the Flumph 08-29-06, 03:30 AM	Careful with those Monster Manual 2 demons. A Dretch and an Abyssal Maw may both be CR2, but the maw tends to be a lot nastier. I learned that the hard way. The only purpose an abyssal maw serves is for the DM to kill a PC.
runestar 08-29-06, 05:26 AM	You could consider using SS handbook and creating scaled down versions of more powerful demons...:P
GeminiDreams 08-29-06, 05:40 AM	Couldnt you just take a really messed up aberration or magical animal and give it demonic traits? Maybe the animal was used as a sacrifice for a demonic ritual and then the left over body was used to transfer over a demonic entity to the plane. An example could be like.. giving a Bugbear demonic traits, affecting it's image. So effectively, it becomes a Demonic Bugbear.
Blaze_the_Dragon 08-29-06, 10:29 AM	They're acctually Devils....But did you consider Spriggans? Basically scouts/Spies....Small little feckers who attack in swarms....Can be moderatly scary...Less any of your PCs wear armour....
alchemyprime 08-29-06, 01:38 PM	http://dndadventure.com/dnda_dm_resources.html Go to this site, and there is a tool called the Demon Construction Matrix. It's a PDF. Just open Word, grab your dice, and make a demon for whatever Challenge rating you need. I made a good CR11 called a Blood Woolf. It was a wolf shaped ooze, not unlike a lemure, but much meaner, and with a breath weapon. They are just plain mean. :D Or, you know, make a feindish Anarchiac Dire Rat and callit a Ratot or something. I dunno.:P
Seraphine_Harmonium 08-29-06, 02:41 PM	http://dndadventure.com/dnda_dm_resources.html Go to this site, and there is a tool called the Demon Construction Matrix. It's a PDF. Just open Word, grab your dice, and make a demon for whatever Challenge rating you need. I made a good CR11 called a Blood Woolf. It was a wolf shaped ooze, not unlike a lemure, but much meaner, and with a breath weapon. They are just plain mean. :D Or, you know, make a feindish Anarchiac Dire Rat and callit a Ratot or something. I dunno.:P Awesome site! I tried out the Demon Construction Matrix and it's cool. thanks a lot.
Seraphine_Harmonium 09-10-06, 10:04 PM	Are there any more ideas out there? I suppose with a demon construction matrix, the possibilities are endless, but I'm always looking for new demons.
Morka 09-11-06, 11:09 AM	You could check the D20 Modern SRD, in the monsters section or the Urban Arcana monsters section. There are some suggestions on how to create demons with funny special features. For example, you can roll that the specific demon has some fluffy bunny dependency, so you can use a fluffy bunny as bait to catch and/or kill that demon; or the demon could have a weakness toward the color red. It makes for a Buffy-like demon hunting, not hack-and-slash, but it can be an interresting twist. Also, you could use some templates: Shadow Creature, Wood Creature, Pseudonatural creature, etc.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 09-11-06, 06:01 PM	Mastering Iron Heroes has the Demonic Brute Villain class. You could just use that to make a couple of low level demons. Or there's the Tomar of Uointer's Outsider Class (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8260222#post8260222)
Seraphine_Harmonium 09-14-06, 11:02 PM	Thanks everyone, if we can get any more demons, I'd like to hear about them. Otherwise I suppose I can make do with what we've got here.
Manshoon13 09-19-06, 07:57 PM	Seraphine, I have stolen all the ideas from this thread, thanks. I am currently running a Demon based game as well as you, and just like you I am scrambling for Demons. So I we can ever share ideas sometime please do.:D
Cameron_DuModre 09-19-06, 09:50 PM	I'm curious as to why templates aren't enough. You can do anything with templates and lower/strengthen them as need be until you can reach the bigger demons. In my current campaign a demonic cult is going to be the "BBE" in the first levels of the campaign. (Of course the players are actually working for the BBEG without knowing it, wiping out her rivals in the cult) They've been fighting 'hell beasts' (half-demon wolves with bat wings, scales, and humanoid front arms with three clawed digits that have been toned down slightly) The fact that it's a template means that my players have less OOC knowledge on how to counter them or what the hell they are. I can describe them however I want. I will say that Imps, when used right, are deadly to low-level parties thanks to their invisibility and poison.
Seraphine_Harmonium 09-19-06, 09:59 PM	It's more a matter of wanting to use real demons as opposed to slapping the fiendish template on any old thing and calling it a demon. It's not that I won't be using the templates at all either. I will. I just wanted to find as many real demons of low enough power to choose from as possible.
Thomar_of_Uointer 09-20-06, 03:34 PM	http://www.kobolds-keep.net/Progressions.pdf There ya' go. :cool: You should be looking at Evil-focused Outsiders, and you can probably redistribute ability scores, add class levels, or any other ideas you can come up with for infinite variation.
Red Dragon 09-20-06, 06:45 PM	My first actual homebrew demon (http://www.planetadnd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2096&start=0) I've made plenty of CE outsiders, but no tanar'ri. These things are pretty good, though. I like the image. Minor conversions are needed (changing DR /+1 to DR /cold iron, if I recall my 3.5 correctly), but it should be sound enough.
RLRapp 09-20-06, 09:15 PM	It's more a matter of wanting to use real demons as opposed to slapping the fiendish template on any old thing and calling it a demon. It's not that I won't be using the templates at all either. I will. I just wanted to find as many real demons of low enough power to choose from as possible. Kind of avariety show campaign, huh.
Khael 09-21-06, 02:10 PM	It's more a matter of wanting to use real demons as opposed to slapping the fiendish template on any old thing and calling it a demon. It's not that I won't be using the templates at all either. I will. I just wanted to find as many real demons of low enough power to choose from as possible. Low CR true demons are meant to attack in hordes, the templates let you use a few together or a solo low-CR fiend. Remember in the blood war, demons have the immense armies vs the smaller more elite devils. Any character will knowledge of the blood war will probably know this. Hence any low-CR specific demon, will probably be more worrying character-wise than a handful of fiendish creatures, since it implies there are many many more demons on the way. This be an important thing to consider, since it affects the feel of the game. I'd expect to maybe see a few fiendish packs overall in a low-level game. If I were the character and I saw a single dretch...that means it should have f(r)iends. Many of them.
Seraphine_Harmonium 09-24-06, 04:43 PM	Low CR true demons are meant to attack in hordes, the templates let you use a few together or a solo low-CR fiend. Remember in the blood war, demons have the immense armies vs the smaller more elite devils. Any character will knowledge of the blood war will probably know this. Hence any low-CR specific demon, will probably be more worrying character-wise than a handful of fiendish creatures, since it implies there are many many more demons on the way. This be an important thing to consider, since it affects the feel of the game. I'd expect to maybe see a few fiendish packs overall in a low-level game. If I were the character and I saw a single dretch...that means it should have f(r)iends. Many of them. Well, there are more on the way. A lot more. Still, the purpose is not to kill everything, but to gain as much control as possible (through as many new followers as possible). In any case, the current number of true demons available, plus templates should give me all I need. I may also use some undead, as the Tyrantfog Zombie (Mosters of Faerun) fits the flavor surprisingly well.
Khael 09-24-06, 04:56 PM	You misunderstand, not more on the way in campaign terms, of course there should be more there. I mean more on the way in that area alone. 1 dretch with some 10 friends for example.
Seraphine_Harmonium 09-24-06, 05:13 PM	You misunderstand, not more on the way in campaign terms, of course there should be more there. I mean more on the way in that area alone. 1 dretch with some 10 friends for example. Oh, like the way you never get just one wolf. They travel in packs. So if you see a dretch, there's bound to be more. Yeah, I agree. There are still a lot more coming, in campaign terms, but as far as adventures and combat go, they won't be fighting whole armies at once. Usually.;)
primemover003 09-25-06, 08:19 PM	They're acctually Devils....But did you consider Spriggans? Basically scouts/Spies....Small little feckers who attack in swarms....Can be moderatly scary...Less any of your PCs wear armour.... I think you mean Spinagons. Spriggans are evil gnomelike Fey that can become Large sized.