Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pyrate_Jib 04-29-08, 08:52 PM	Are the natural attacks of Demons considered magical for the purpose of defeating DR (such as a High level Monk or a magic device that provides DR 10/ magic)? I thought I read some place that all Outsiders natural attacks are considered magical. And after a certain HD are natural attacks considered to be magical? And how about when a Balor blows up... That's magic right?
wraithstrike 04-29-08, 09:11 PM	Are the natural attacks of Demons considered magical for the purpose of defeating DR (such as a High level Monk or a magic device that provides DR 10/ magic)? I thought I read some place that all Outsiders natural attacks are considered magical. And after a certain HD are natural attacks considered to be magical? And how about when a Balor blows up... That's magic right? They have the ability to overcome their own DR. So if it takes magic to defeat its DR then its natural attacks are magical.
runestar 04-29-08, 09:34 PM	Demons can only overcome dr/evil and chaotic. A balor can overcome dr/magic by virtue of its +1 vorpal longsword, but if it was destroyed someone, then it cannot defeat dr/magic. This is a fairly common trend. You will find that quite a number of foes cannot readily overcome dr/magic, even at higher lvs, such as the vrock and pit fiend. And how about when a Balor blows up... That's magic right? It is untyped. So it overcomes everything.
DKase 04-30-08, 03:07 AM	It usually says in the monster's description what their strikes are considered in terms of DR. For example, the discription of an Inevitable states that it's attacks (both natural and weapon based) are considered Lawfully aligned for the purpose of overcoming DR, even though their DR is 10/chaotic. All monsters can overcome their own DR, but I believe that only means they are capable of injuring themselves, not that they can overcome another's DR if they should happen to have a match. To use the same example, a Marut (an Inevitable) could open a wound on itself if it had to, completely bypassing it's own DR. How ever it would still have to get through the 15/chaotic DR to injure another Marut unless it had a chaotic aligned weapon at hand.
runestar 04-30-08, 07:25 AM	For example, the discription of an Inevitable states that it's attacks (both natural and weapon based) are considered Lawfully aligned for the purpose of overcoming DR, even though their DR is 10/chaotic. As a general thumb of rule, possessing a certain alignment subtype allows you to overcome dr relating to that alignment. For example, demons have the chaotic and evil subtype, which accounts for their ability to overcome dr/chaotic and evil. Possessing dr/magic or epic allows you to overcome dr/magic or epic accordingly. All monsters can overcome their own DR, but I believe that only means they are capable of injuring themselves, not that they can overcome another's DR if they should happen to have a match. Where does it state this? I don't think it is automatically the case. Thus, if a demon had dr10/good but did less than 10 damage with its attack, then it can never injure itself with its physical attacks.:P
ToastedAmphibian 04-30-08, 07:53 PM	Thus, if a demon had dr10/good but did less than 10 damage with its attack, then it can never injure itself with its physical attacks. Demonic Suicide Prevention? Has it really come down to this? Emo is more pervasive than I thought. This is sader than the discussion i had last weakend about the troll that cuts itself........
Pyrate_Jib 04-30-08, 10:21 PM	Switch it around. The PCs have the DR! DR 10/ Magic. The PC is attacked by a Herozu and a Bar Lguara. Can these Demons inflict their normal damage or are they hampered by the DR/ Magic?
DKase 05-01-08, 02:42 AM	Switch it around. The PCs have the DR! DR 10/ Magic. The PC is attacked by a Herozu and a Bar Lguara. Can these Demons inflict their normal damage or are they hampered by the DR/ Magic? The Hezrou would be hampered by the DR since it's strikes are not considered magical (no DR/Magic). I don't have the stats for the Bar-Lguara, but unless it has DR/Magic as well, then assume that it has to get through the DR to harm the PC in question. Considering the array of spell like abilities and what not at their disposal, chances are that DR won't be to big a problem.
Pyrate_Jib 05-02-08, 08:17 PM	Interesting. Suddenly makes the creatures with DR/ Cold Iron or Good not as tough as those with with DR/ Magic... Don't know if I like that. I think the Balor has DR/ Good and Cold Iron but his sword can break a DR.
DKase 05-03-08, 09:39 AM	Interesting. Suddenly makes the creatures with DR/ Cold Iron or Good not as tough as those with with DR/ Magic... Don't know if I like that. I think the Balor has DR/ Good and Cold Iron but his sword can break a DR. Monsters just tend to rely on their sheer damage output or spell like abilities to counter such things. Their are really only a handful of classes that even grant DR (and even then it's not much) to begin with, so the chances are that a monster will need to rely upon on countermeasures is kind of slim. However a PC (or a class leveled bad guy) is definetly going to pack a magic weapon of some sort, though the chances that it's going to be aligned or constructed of the proper material to overcome the appropiate DR when encounterd is pretty slim. Heck, most PC's don't even know what DR the monster has when encountered. So in that light, those oddball DRs work in the monster's favor, while a monster with DR/Magic will probably meet a grizzly death at the hands of the party's melee tank.