Design an Archetypical Monster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Design an Archetypical Monster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Roman
05-17-04, 09:42 PM If people are willing to participate, I would like to organize a "Design an Archetypical Monster Competition". The prize for winning is eternal fame (your name will feature as the name of the most prominent member of the monster society ;) ) and... and well, I guess eternal fame will have to do. Of course, for a monster to be archetypical it has to be the subject of legends and part of the fantasy sub-culture. Any new monster by definition has none of those qualities and thus cannot be archetypical. Hence, it is necessary to judge new monsters by apparent potential to become archetypical at least within D&D. So what are the desirable qualities of such monsters?

1) The monster should be as unique as possible. For example, it is difficult for new types of humanoids, demons or dragons to become archetypical, as there is a plethora of monsters in each category already with some taking up the likely available archetypical roles.

2) The monster should be scalable in power. Perhaps this could be achieved by differentiating between ages of the monster (like with dragons) or by having multiple types of different power levels (eg devils).

3) It should be possible to create new monsters of the type by varying the theme somewhat (based on elements, environments, or whatever else you choose). Again, look at dragons for an example of how this can be done.

4) Most important of all: The monster should be cool! :cool: :)

Good Luck! :)
Roman
05-17-04, 09:44 PM As to scoring the competition, I am open to suggestions. We could have a community vote on the monster after a specified amount of time, or we could simply congratulate everyone who participates and make it less a competition and more a design a cool monster with archetypical potential thread.
Roman
05-18-04, 08:19 PM Is anybody interested in this? :)
Arhra
05-19-04, 06:58 AM Hmmm, so by archtypal monster you mean a creature from myth don't you? Or at the very least a well know monster that isn't currently represented in D&D. I think I might try my hand at it.
Incenjucar
05-19-04, 08:04 AM Eh. Fairly easy. "Serpents". Massive creatures on the same level as dragons, but have obscene constriction attacks, mystical venom, and a tend to have amazingly high dex for their size, but with no lack of strength.

I've dabbled in them for awhile now. There's something amusing about a large serpent that has a Faerie Fire effect for its venom, for hunting its fleeing prey.
Roman
05-19-04, 05:37 PM Originally posted by Arhra
Hmmm, so by archtypal monster you mean a creature from myth don't you? Or at the very least a well know monster that isn't currently represented in D&D. I think I might try my hand at it.

I was thinking of a monster that would be unique and variable (in terms of theme and power) enough to have potential to become 'iconic' in D&D and I suppose in the general fantasy culture. (Of course, this does not mean that it actually will become iconic - many good ideas go unnoticed or are only noticed by few.) What you proposed would, however, also be interesting.
Roman
05-19-04, 05:43 PM Originally posted by Incenjucar
Eh. Fairly easy. "Serpents". Massive creatures on the same level as dragons, but have obscene constriction attacks, mystical venom, and a tend to have amazingly high dex for their size, but with no lack of strength.

I've dabbled in them for awhile now. There's something amusing about a large serpent that has a Faerie Fire effect for its venom, for hunting its fleeing prey.

That does sound intriguing. Since you have already dabbled in them, would you mind posting some of your creations? :)
Incenjucar
05-19-04, 06:10 PM I'm afraid they're on the back burner as I try to finish my elemental polars. There's something seriously difficult about trying to make a race act like a casting class that doesn't exist...
Glak
05-20-04, 04:06 PM Gargoyle/Bloodbeast/Vampire (note: not related to the gargoyles or vampires of the MM)

Gargoyles are roughly humanoid in shape but with short legs and their front arms function as wings. They have two fingers that can be used to grasp, the rest are part of the wing. They have tufts of hair on their heads. Heads look somewhat rodent or canine. In the middle of their backs three vertebrae have curved spines, creating a small fin on the back. They are clumsy fliers but good at jumping. They are medium magical beasts.

They fear bright light and die of heart attacks if exposed to sunlight. Light spells stun gargoyles for one round unless a will save is made. Most flee if they make the save. However a gargoyle will not be stunned for more than 10 rounds per night, after that they become immune to light for the rest of the night (though it still pains and intimidates them)

All gargoyles have the Aerial Charge ability. Basically they get an attack that does double claw damage, counts as a charge and bull rush, but without the AoP or -2 AC. Gargoyles use this as they are landing or to knock creatures out of trees.

The basic gargoyle is a forest creature with an Int of 4. They hunt in packs.

A gargoyle that eats enough sentient creatures turns into a bloodbeast. Any wound that it causes bleeds. Blood from the wounded creature flows through the air and into the bloodbeast's wounds, healing him. Most people are alarmed when they first see this. Blood beasts are somewhat intelligent (Int 8) and chaotic evil. Bloodbeasts drive packs of gargoyles into a maddening frenzy, causing more of the gargoyles to become bloodbeasts. Soon the pack is either put down or the bloodbeasts turn on each other when prey runs out.

A humanoid who drinks the blood of a bloodbeast comes a vampire. Sunlight is deadly to them, causing them to boil away. Vampires have an isatiable thirst, most kill a hundred per day. They are immune to all physical and magical attacks except for sunlight and light spells as mentioned above. Typical ways to deal with them are destroying their lair (exposing them to the sun) or stunning them and imprisoning them with an artifact, such as powerful anti-magic manacles (which are then removed when the sun comes up)

Those are the variations I had in my campaign. I can see elemental versions (instead of BloodBeast there could be an IceBeast whose aura deals 1d6 nonlethal damge per round, and then someone who breaths in the icy breath of one would turn into some sort of frost monster)
Roman
05-20-04, 11:56 PM Looks pretty interesting though you may wish to consider changing the names of gargoyle and vampire in order to avoid confusion with the equivalent MM monsters. BTW: What are the stats of the creatures mentioned?
Arhra
05-21-04, 06:22 AM Hmm, after some consideration I've thought of a possibility that could work - incarnations of elements. Rather than just being a mobile blob of elemental matter they would more represent the ideas behind the element. A little like a natural outsider that would in a way be a neutral counterpoint to celestials and fiends. Yes, I know there's already the rilmani but I mean a sort of outsider representing nature. And it wouldn't necessarily be just fire, earth, air and water; you could have plants or thunderclouds or virtually anything. I hope my explanation hasn't confused you too much.
Incenjucar
05-21-04, 06:40 AM There's always my polars, which are humanoid outsiders with a connection to an elemental plane, the positive energy plane, and the negative energy plane (Meaning they can benefit from harm AND heal), as well as the quasielemental planes that connected them in 2e. They have fairly similar abilities, but with many details based on their elemental origin. Fire polars, for instance, are also connected to Ash (Negative Fire, essentially, heat drain) and Radiance (Light). They can energy drain creatures with the fire subtype, can use 'heat drain damage', and can use light and fire in similar ways. Since they can perfectly simulate sunlight, undead usually don't care for them. However, with my polars, you tend to get stuck after four elements, unless you have different elements, or you adapt their concept. Say, a Wood Polar or a Magic Polar.

As for personified elements, they had such in 2e, in the third Planescape monster book.

They're called "dharum suhn", and are described as, "...embody not just earth and rock, but the steadfastness and unchanging support of stone. The dharum suhn epitomize the qualities of stability, strength, endurance, wisdom, contemplation, and immovability."

They're usually just invisible spirits, and are fricking powerful.
Roman
05-26-04, 09:10 PM Hmm, exciting ideas! :)
Melles, Lord of Badgers
05-26-04, 09:18 PM double post:sad: !
Melles, Lord of Badgers
05-26-04, 09:18 PM how about the preluda? it is a beast with the head and tail of a snake, body of a porcupine, and legs of a crocodile. it could have poison coated spines that it can hurl 30 feet. and a totaly different bite poison. and has a swim and dig speed. did i mention that it's a french monster? i guess not. any how, it's great, anyone wana stat it? it proubly should be a magical beast.
Shifting Master
05-27-04, 06:12 PM I think that my Dramalvagi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2488902#post2488902) should do the trick.
Roman
05-27-04, 09:05 PM I will check out the Dramalvagi you mentioned. :cool:
Roman
05-30-04, 10:39 PM The Dramavalgi are indeed pretty nice. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Roman 05-17-04, 09:42 PM	If people are willing to participate, I would like to organize a "Design an Archetypical Monster Competition". The prize for winning is eternal fame (your name will feature as the name of the most prominent member of the monster society ;) ) and... and well, I guess eternal fame will have to do. Of course, for a monster to be archetypical it has to be the subject of legends and part of the fantasy sub-culture. Any new monster by definition has none of those qualities and thus cannot be archetypical. Hence, it is necessary to judge new monsters by apparent potential to become archetypical at least within D&D. So what are the desirable qualities of such monsters? 1) The monster should be as unique as possible. For example, it is difficult for new types of humanoids, demons or dragons to become archetypical, as there is a plethora of monsters in each category already with some taking up the likely available archetypical roles. 2) The monster should be scalable in power. Perhaps this could be achieved by differentiating between ages of the monster (like with dragons) or by having multiple types of different power levels (eg devils). 3) It should be possible to create new monsters of the type by varying the theme somewhat (based on elements, environments, or whatever else you choose). Again, look at dragons for an example of how this can be done. 4) Most important of all: The monster should be cool! :cool: :) Good Luck! :)
Roman 05-17-04, 09:44 PM	As to scoring the competition, I am open to suggestions. We could have a community vote on the monster after a specified amount of time, or we could simply congratulate everyone who participates and make it less a competition and more a design a cool monster with archetypical potential thread.
Roman 05-18-04, 08:19 PM	Is anybody interested in this? :)
Arhra 05-19-04, 06:58 AM	Hmmm, so by archtypal monster you mean a creature from myth don't you? Or at the very least a well know monster that isn't currently represented in D&D. I think I might try my hand at it.
Incenjucar 05-19-04, 08:04 AM	Eh. Fairly easy. "Serpents". Massive creatures on the same level as dragons, but have obscene constriction attacks, mystical venom, and a tend to have amazingly high dex for their size, but with no lack of strength. I've dabbled in them for awhile now. There's something amusing about a large serpent that has a Faerie Fire effect for its venom, for hunting its fleeing prey.
Roman 05-19-04, 05:37 PM	Originally posted by Arhra Hmmm, so by archtypal monster you mean a creature from myth don't you? Or at the very least a well know monster that isn't currently represented in D&D. I think I might try my hand at it. I was thinking of a monster that would be unique and variable (in terms of theme and power) enough to have potential to become 'iconic' in D&D and I suppose in the general fantasy culture. (Of course, this does not mean that it actually will become iconic - many good ideas go unnoticed or are only noticed by few.) What you proposed would, however, also be interesting.
Roman 05-19-04, 05:43 PM	Originally posted by Incenjucar Eh. Fairly easy. "Serpents". Massive creatures on the same level as dragons, but have obscene constriction attacks, mystical venom, and a tend to have amazingly high dex for their size, but with no lack of strength. I've dabbled in them for awhile now. There's something amusing about a large serpent that has a Faerie Fire effect for its venom, for hunting its fleeing prey. That does sound intriguing. Since you have already dabbled in them, would you mind posting some of your creations? :)
Incenjucar 05-19-04, 06:10 PM	I'm afraid they're on the back burner as I try to finish my elemental polars. There's something seriously difficult about trying to make a race act like a casting class that doesn't exist...
Glak 05-20-04, 04:06 PM	Gargoyle/Bloodbeast/Vampire (note: not related to the gargoyles or vampires of the MM) Gargoyles are roughly humanoid in shape but with short legs and their front arms function as wings. They have two fingers that can be used to grasp, the rest are part of the wing. They have tufts of hair on their heads. Heads look somewhat rodent or canine. In the middle of their backs three vertebrae have curved spines, creating a small fin on the back. They are clumsy fliers but good at jumping. They are medium magical beasts. They fear bright light and die of heart attacks if exposed to sunlight. Light spells stun gargoyles for one round unless a will save is made. Most flee if they make the save. However a gargoyle will not be stunned for more than 10 rounds per night, after that they become immune to light for the rest of the night (though it still pains and intimidates them) All gargoyles have the Aerial Charge ability. Basically they get an attack that does double claw damage, counts as a charge and bull rush, but without the AoP or -2 AC. Gargoyles use this as they are landing or to knock creatures out of trees. The basic gargoyle is a forest creature with an Int of 4. They hunt in packs. A gargoyle that eats enough sentient creatures turns into a bloodbeast. Any wound that it causes bleeds. Blood from the wounded creature flows through the air and into the bloodbeast's wounds, healing him. Most people are alarmed when they first see this. Blood beasts are somewhat intelligent (Int 8) and chaotic evil. Bloodbeasts drive packs of gargoyles into a maddening frenzy, causing more of the gargoyles to become bloodbeasts. Soon the pack is either put down or the bloodbeasts turn on each other when prey runs out. A humanoid who drinks the blood of a bloodbeast comes a vampire. Sunlight is deadly to them, causing them to boil away. Vampires have an isatiable thirst, most kill a hundred per day. They are immune to all physical and magical attacks except for sunlight and light spells as mentioned above. Typical ways to deal with them are destroying their lair (exposing them to the sun) or stunning them and imprisoning them with an artifact, such as powerful anti-magic manacles (which are then removed when the sun comes up) Those are the variations I had in my campaign. I can see elemental versions (instead of BloodBeast there could be an IceBeast whose aura deals 1d6 nonlethal damge per round, and then someone who breaths in the icy breath of one would turn into some sort of frost monster)
Roman 05-20-04, 11:56 PM	Looks pretty interesting though you may wish to consider changing the names of gargoyle and vampire in order to avoid confusion with the equivalent MM monsters. BTW: What are the stats of the creatures mentioned?
Arhra 05-21-04, 06:22 AM	Hmm, after some consideration I've thought of a possibility that could work - incarnations of elements. Rather than just being a mobile blob of elemental matter they would more represent the ideas behind the element. A little like a natural outsider that would in a way be a neutral counterpoint to celestials and fiends. Yes, I know there's already the rilmani but I mean a sort of outsider representing nature. And it wouldn't necessarily be just fire, earth, air and water; you could have plants or thunderclouds or virtually anything. I hope my explanation hasn't confused you too much.
Incenjucar 05-21-04, 06:40 AM	There's always my polars, which are humanoid outsiders with a connection to an elemental plane, the positive energy plane, and the negative energy plane (Meaning they can benefit from harm AND heal), as well as the quasielemental planes that connected them in 2e. They have fairly similar abilities, but with many details based on their elemental origin. Fire polars, for instance, are also connected to Ash (Negative Fire, essentially, heat drain) and Radiance (Light). They can energy drain creatures with the fire subtype, can use 'heat drain damage', and can use light and fire in similar ways. Since they can perfectly simulate sunlight, undead usually don't care for them. However, with my polars, you tend to get stuck after four elements, unless you have different elements, or you adapt their concept. Say, a Wood Polar or a Magic Polar. As for personified elements, they had such in 2e, in the third Planescape monster book. They're called "dharum suhn", and are described as, "...embody not just earth and rock, but the steadfastness and unchanging support of stone. The dharum suhn epitomize the qualities of stability, strength, endurance, wisdom, contemplation, and immovability." They're usually just invisible spirits, and are fricking powerful.
Roman 05-26-04, 09:10 PM	Hmm, exciting ideas! :)
Melles, Lord of Badgers 05-26-04, 09:18 PM	double post:sad: !
Melles, Lord of Badgers 05-26-04, 09:18 PM	how about the preluda? it is a beast with the head and tail of a snake, body of a porcupine, and legs of a crocodile. it could have poison coated spines that it can hurl 30 feet. and a totaly different bite poison. and has a swim and dig speed. did i mention that it's a french monster? i guess not. any how, it's great, anyone wana stat it? it proubly should be a magical beast.
Shifting Master 05-27-04, 06:12 PM	I think that my Dramalvagi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2488902#post2488902) should do the trick.
Roman 05-27-04, 09:05 PM	I will check out the Dramalvagi you mentioned. :cool:
Roman 05-30-04, 10:39 PM	The Dramavalgi are indeed pretty nice. :)