Determining CR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Determining CR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Korone
12-10-04, 03:11 PM I'm making some monsters and I completely can't guess their CR.
Does anyone have tips for this?
Other than testing them.

Here's a creature that I just made, if someone could help me with it's CR I'd be grateful.

Trinyma
Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 5d10+25 (53hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 40ft (60 on 4 legs), Climb 10ft
Armor Class: 18 (+10Nat, -1Dex, -1Size)
Base Attack: 3
Attack: 2 Claws +11 melee, Gore +7, Tail Sweep +7
Damage: Claw 1d6+7, Gore 2d6+3, Tail Sweep 1d8+3
Space/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./10 ft. (15 ft. with tail.)
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: -
Saves: Fort 10, Ref 4, Will 2
Abilities: Str 25, Dex 8, Con 20, Int 5, Wis 12, Cha 7
Skills: Spot 9, Listen 8, Swim 15
Feats: Endurance, Alertness
Environment: Mountains, forests and hill.
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: ?
Advancement: 6-12HD large, 13-24HD Huge

The trinyma seems to be a mix of some animals. A polar bear, an elephant, a turtle and an iguana and unidentifiable animals.

The creature stand above 12 feets high on two feets, which it is normally. It have two powerful elephant's leg with large spike on his knews. Its muscular arms are these of the polar bear, which are covered with large spiked plates. Its torso is covered with a hard turtle's shell. It possesse the head of an iguana but slighly different. It have two large circular horns each side of his head and three other horns on his forehead with a long one on his nose. Its tail, long and muscular, is fully plated upside.

Combat:
The trinyma never attack unless provoqued. Or in need of food. They can eat anything during these times.

It normally rush into his opponent, attacking with his horns and attack with anything they can until the defeated their enemy or until they die.
dimble the gnome
12-11-04, 11:22 PM Looking through the monster manual it sounds 4. Maybe 5.
Dartanel
12-12-04, 01:05 AM Your monster is very close to the owlbear. It's AC is, and it has an additional attack (which, BTW, is at +4, not -1) But it doesn't have improved grab.
The additional reach of the Tail sweep is a big consideration, though, and just might push this monster from 4 to 5. (maybe even on the fact it has 4 attacks instead of 3)

But, compared to other CR 5 monsters of it's combat class (Troll and Dire Lion) it comes up a tiny bit lacking. Maybe adding a 6th hit dice would fix that and make it a solid CR 5.
Korone
12-12-04, 02:33 PM (which, BTW, is at +4, not -1)
Really?
Multiple attack aren't made with a -5 AB penalty, each?
The Vorpal Tribble
12-12-04, 03:07 PM http://my.photosleeve.com/TheVorpalTribble-albums/Mindfields/aad.jpg
GrandMarquis
12-13-04, 03:36 AM Primary attack at full attack bonus, all others at full bonus -5, so yeah, the claws should be +9 and both the others should be +4.

I have to admit, I just glanced through it, but it sounds about CR 4 or 5... though that doesn't really help much I guess.

EDIT: Actually, if you want to be all technical about it, it should have a base attack equal to it's HD, and since it's STR mod is +7, 7 + 5 = 12, so it should have claw attack bonus of +12 and all others should be +7, making for a more deadly creature... unless I'm reading it wrong of course. Oh, and secondary attacks only receive 1/2 STR mod to damage, which would be +3 instead of +7 for the gore and tail sweep. Once again, I could be wrong.
strenoth
12-13-04, 04:31 AM Really?
Multiple attack aren't made with a -5 AB penalty, each?

It's non-culumative for natural attacks. Just look at the monsters in the MM more closely, and read the front of it.
Korone
12-13-04, 09:12 AM Okey.. now I understand.
I were confused with weapon and natural ones.

And GrandMarquis, it would be +11, not +12 after reading it again. You forgot the -1 penalty for his size.

*Edit*
GrandMarquis
12-13-04, 03:50 PM Whoops, forgot that little detail.
The Abominable Darkling
12-13-04, 09:28 PM In the future, I suggest that you pick the CR before you design anything else about a new monster. Once you know the CR, you can choose attacks and defences appropriate to that CR. Choosing the CR last is much more difficult. Worse still, it's fully possible to design a monster for which no appropriate CR exists. The 3.0 demons illustrate this problem rather nicely.
Korone
12-14-04, 11:40 AM In the future, I suggest that you pick the CR before you design anything else about a new monster. Once you know the CR, you can choose attacks and defences appropriate to that CR. Choosing the CR last is much more difficult. Worse still, it's fully possible to design a monster for which no appropriate CR exists.
Sure, but, how to know which attacks and defences are appropriated to a certain CR?
The Abominable Darkling
12-14-04, 01:03 PM By looking in the Monster Manual.
Korone
12-14-04, 02:40 PM -_-

How helpfull.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Korone 12-10-04, 03:11 PM	I'm making some monsters and I completely can't guess their CR. Does anyone have tips for this? Other than testing them. Here's a creature that I just made, if someone could help me with it's CR I'd be grateful. Trinyma Large Magical Beast Hit Dice: 5d10+25 (53hp) Initiative: -1 Speed: 40ft (60 on 4 legs), Climb 10ft Armor Class: 18 (+10Nat, -1Dex, -1Size) Base Attack: 3 Attack: 2 Claws +11 melee, Gore +7, Tail Sweep +7 Damage: Claw 1d6+7, Gore 2d6+3, Tail Sweep 1d8+3 Space/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./10 ft. (15 ft. with tail.) Special Attacks: - Special Qualities: - Saves: Fort 10, Ref 4, Will 2 Abilities: Str 25, Dex 8, Con 20, Int 5, Wis 12, Cha 7 Skills: Spot 9, Listen 8, Swim 15 Feats: Endurance, Alertness Environment: Mountains, forests and hill. Organization: Solitary or pair Challenge Rating: ? Advancement: 6-12HD large, 13-24HD Huge The trinyma seems to be a mix of some animals. A polar bear, an elephant, a turtle and an iguana and unidentifiable animals. The creature stand above 12 feets high on two feets, which it is normally. It have two powerful elephant's leg with large spike on his knews. Its muscular arms are these of the polar bear, which are covered with large spiked plates. Its torso is covered with a hard turtle's shell. It possesse the head of an iguana but slighly different. It have two large circular horns each side of his head and three other horns on his forehead with a long one on his nose. Its tail, long and muscular, is fully plated upside. Combat: The trinyma never attack unless provoqued. Or in need of food. They can eat anything during these times. It normally rush into his opponent, attacking with his horns and attack with anything they can until the defeated their enemy or until they die.
dimble the gnome 12-11-04, 11:22 PM	Looking through the monster manual it sounds 4. Maybe 5.
Dartanel 12-12-04, 01:05 AM	Your monster is very close to the owlbear. It's AC is, and it has an additional attack (which, BTW, is at +4, not -1) But it doesn't have improved grab. The additional reach of the Tail sweep is a big consideration, though, and just might push this monster from 4 to 5. (maybe even on the fact it has 4 attacks instead of 3) But, compared to other CR 5 monsters of it's combat class (Troll and Dire Lion) it comes up a tiny bit lacking. Maybe adding a 6th hit dice would fix that and make it a solid CR 5.
Korone 12-12-04, 02:33 PM	(which, BTW, is at +4, not -1) Really? Multiple attack aren't made with a -5 AB penalty, each?
The Vorpal Tribble 12-12-04, 03:07 PM	http://my.photosleeve.com/TheVorpalTribble-albums/Mindfields/aad.jpg
GrandMarquis 12-13-04, 03:36 AM	Primary attack at full attack bonus, all others at full bonus -5, so yeah, the claws should be +9 and both the others should be +4. I have to admit, I just glanced through it, but it sounds about CR 4 or 5... though that doesn't really help much I guess. EDIT: Actually, if you want to be all technical about it, it should have a base attack equal to it's HD, and since it's STR mod is +7, 7 + 5 = 12, so it should have claw attack bonus of +12 and all others should be +7, making for a more deadly creature... unless I'm reading it wrong of course. Oh, and secondary attacks only receive 1/2 STR mod to damage, which would be +3 instead of +7 for the gore and tail sweep. Once again, I could be wrong.
strenoth 12-13-04, 04:31 AM	Really? Multiple attack aren't made with a -5 AB penalty, each? It's non-culumative for natural attacks. Just look at the monsters in the MM more closely, and read the front of it.
Korone 12-13-04, 09:12 AM	Okey.. now I understand. I were confused with weapon and natural ones. And GrandMarquis, it would be +11, not +12 after reading it again. You forgot the -1 penalty for his size. Edit
GrandMarquis 12-13-04, 03:50 PM	Whoops, forgot that little detail.
The Abominable Darkling 12-13-04, 09:28 PM	In the future, I suggest that you pick the CR before you design anything else about a new monster. Once you know the CR, you can choose attacks and defences appropriate to that CR. Choosing the CR last is much more difficult. Worse still, it's fully possible to design a monster for which no appropriate CR exists. The 3.0 demons illustrate this problem rather nicely.
Korone 12-14-04, 11:40 AM	In the future, I suggest that you pick the CR before you design anything else about a new monster. Once you know the CR, you can choose attacks and defences appropriate to that CR. Choosing the CR last is much more difficult. Worse still, it's fully possible to design a monster for which no appropriate CR exists. Sure, but, how to know which attacks and defences are appropriated to a certain CR?
The Abominable Darkling 12-14-04, 01:03 PM	By looking in the Monster Manual.
Korone 12-14-04, 02:40 PM	-_- How helpfull.