Devils, Demons, Law, and Chaos [Archive] - Wizards Community

Devils, Demons, Law, and Chaos [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SearcherOmega
10-31-04, 01:28 PM I'm wondering why it is that Devils and Demons can have their Damage Reduction overcome by Good, but not by their opposite Law/Chaos value.
I ask because I'm having a hard time finding deadly extraplanars with vulnerabilities to Lawful or Chaotic aligned weapons (Though Inevitables do nicely), and was wondering if there's any reason why demons and devils are resistant to their opposite law/chaos alignment.
Sarig the Genie
10-31-04, 02:00 PM All that damage reduction isn't too well thought out really.
Dackad
10-31-04, 08:31 PM I'm wondering why it is that Devils and Demons can have their Damage Reduction overcome by Good, but not by their opposite Law/Chaos value.
I ask because I'm having a hard time finding deadly extraplanars with vulnerabilities to Lawful or Chaotic aligned weapons (Though Inevitables do nicely), and was wondering if there's any reason why demons and devils are resistant to their opposite law/chaos alignment.
Because demons and devils are beings from planes of pure evil TAINTED with law and chaos. Essentially, they are pure evil with tints of chaos and law.

At least, that is how I look at it.
Judicator Shekar
10-31-04, 10:18 PM Dackad is right in this regard. Essentially, Baator and the Abyss are planes that are evil and have been tainted by chaos or law. The more important point is that both Devils and Demons originated as Yugoloth. They are the members and elements of Yugoloth society/heirarchy that show the lawful (Baatezu) or chaotic (Tanar'ri) aspects of evil. After they split from this evil progenitor race eaons ago, they traveled to their respective planes.
hiryuu
10-31-04, 11:55 PM Bah. That's just Yugoloth propaganda. Devils have been around since Ahriman fell, creating the nine layers of Baator, and the first ones spawned from his blood.
Shemeska the Marauder
11-01-04, 12:02 AM Dackad is right in this regard. Essentially, Baator and the Abyss are planes that are evil and have been tainted by chaos or law. The more important point is that both Devils and Demons originated as Yugoloth. They are the members and elements of Yugoloth society/heirarchy that show the lawful (Baatezu) or chaotic (Tanar'ri) aspects of evil. After they split from this evil progenitor race eaons ago, they traveled to their respective planes.

More the point that the Tanar'ri and Baatezu are the creations of the Yugoloths. When, at the urging of their own makers (the Baernaloths), they purged themselves of law and chaos they fused those fragments of law and chaos with the first larvae upon the Gray Waste and herded the resulting beings into the Abyss and Baator.

These first Tanar'ri and Baatezu multiplied and became intimately tied down to the planes that they migrated to, colonized and conquered, themselves coming to reflect the nature of the planes they took root within. All the while the Yugoloths watched and recorded what transpired in this, their ultimate experiment into the nature of evil on the planes.

The Baatezu of course did not find Baator uninhabited when they arrived and eventually conquered the plane from its native inhabitants, the Ancient Baatorians. Shortly after the ancients went into seclusion in baator the Lords of 9 appeared, either the result of the most powerful Baatezu gaining a sort of symbiotic link to the layers of the plane or perhaps they were at first living extensions of the plane itself that rose up to meet its new dominant race. Still others claim that perhaps some of the original Lords of the 9 were either some of the ancient Baatezu who betrayed their own kind or some of the yugoloths who had guided their infant creations into Baator in the first place, still watching over their flawed creations.

Eventually the Tanar'ri and Baatezu encountered one another and the Blood War began, again all under the subtle hand and puppet strings of the Yugoloths.

http://arcanofox.foxpaws.net/Puppets.jpg
hiryuu
11-01-04, 01:24 AM Bah. Don't listen to him an' his spin! He'll make ya think the yugoloths run everything!

Now, where's that carriage? It's never this late.
Lina_Inverse
11-01-04, 02:16 AM Bah. Don't listen to him an' his spin! He'll make ya think the yugoloths run everything!

Now, where's that carriage? It's never this late.

only the lower planes.im sure shemmy knows as well as anyone they have no hold upon the good planes,and she prolly likes them there.herding mercy and compassion over there makes evil stronger.

though to the orginal topic,im not sure.i personally like giveing critters multible DRS.(hence a devil has DRX/2-material and chaos and DRX/2-material and law or DRX/3 for all of them,depending.)
baator is as much law as evil,and the abyss as much chaos as evil.the reality is good and evil are meaningless,that law and chaos more pure.EMBRACE THE TRUTH!
Dackad
11-01-04, 01:36 PM Bah. Don't listen to him an' his spin! He'll make ya think the yugoloths run everything!

Now, where's that carriage? It's never this late.
Some people give too much credit to the 'loths.

I like to think that the 'loths originally created the two other fiend groups, but that they have since then spun out of their control.

The 'loths may put up an arrogant, haughty attitude, but they're meanwhile thinking to themselves 'What in the abyss is going on here?' It gets to the point when those pesky 'loths start pulling strings, they just don't know what strings they're pulling anymore. ;)
Shemeska the Marauder
11-01-04, 10:21 PM The 'loths may put up an arrogant, haughty attitude, but they're meanwhile thinking to themselves 'What in the abyss is going on here?' It gets to the point when those pesky 'loths start pulling strings, they just don't know what strings they're pulling anymore. ;)

Thing is... we don't put up that attitude except perhaps amongst ourselves. Openly we deny having control over the other fiends or being anything other than simple mercenaries. When asked about creating the other fiends though we're quite open about that. ;)

It's a shame we let that copy of the Book of Derilect Magics get out...
Dackad
11-03-04, 02:29 AM Thing is... we don't put up that attitude except perhaps amongst ourselves. Openly we deny having control over the other fiends or being anything other than simple mercenaries. When asked about creating the other fiends though we're quite open about that. ;)

That's the 'loth way. Deny everything and only make vague hints at everything else.
;)
Nurgan_the_drunked
11-03-04, 09:55 AM Why did you think the Blood Wars took so darn long?
TheArchfiend
11-03-04, 01:03 PM lol you silly 'loth supporters. just because its the closest thing to a non-psychotic, evil human mind doesnt mean it really happened like that. consider the source my friend, consider the source. ;) :P
Shemeska the Marauder
11-03-04, 01:23 PM lol you silly 'loth supporters. just because its the closest thing to a non-psychotic, evil human mind doesnt mean it really happened like that. consider the source my friend, consider the source. ;) :P

Mmmm the lovely joys of sociopathy. http://arcanofox.foxpaws.net/shemmysmile.gif
Objulen
11-03-04, 09:45 PM This is irrelevent, for the yugoloths are just as blind to the True Death as any other fiend. They believe that they ensnare other beings with their puppet strings, but in truth these strings only serve to bind them to this False Life and its sufferings.
Shemeska the Marauder
11-03-04, 11:19 PM This is irrelevent, for the yugoloths are just as blind to the True Death as any other fiend. They believe that they ensnare other beings with their puppet strings, but in truth these strings only serve to bind them to this False Life and its sufferings.

"Petitioners who were formerly members of the Dustmen in life have the funniest expressions on their faces when you meet up with them in Gehenna or the Waste and give 'em back their memories. It's like turning a bug upside down and watching it wriggle in vain." :smirk:
Objulen
11-04-04, 12:33 AM "Petitioners who were formerly members of the Dustmen in life have the funniest expressions on their faces when you meet up with them in Gehenna or the Waste and give 'em back their memories. It's like turning a bug upside down and watching it wriggle in vain."

The quest for True Death is a journey that lasts life times, a goal that must be constantly struggled for and requires perhaps ages of dedication. If escaping the lie of False Life were easy, the Planes themselves would have experiance True Death and seen the True Afterlife eons ago. Did not the Silent King of the Dead Nation finally find the peace of True Death? These poor petitioners still cling to their passions, vestigal though they might be, waiting to join the planes once again so they might once again set themselves towards unraveling the bindings of False Life.
TheArchfiend
11-04-04, 02:34 AM Mmmm the lovely joys of sociopathy. http://arcanofox.foxpaws.net/shemmysmile.gif

LOL!! ah too funny!

some days it tastes just like chicken!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SearcherOmega 10-31-04, 01:28 PM	I'm wondering why it is that Devils and Demons can have their Damage Reduction overcome by Good, but not by their opposite Law/Chaos value. I ask because I'm having a hard time finding deadly extraplanars with vulnerabilities to Lawful or Chaotic aligned weapons (Though Inevitables do nicely), and was wondering if there's any reason why demons and devils are resistant to their opposite law/chaos alignment.
Sarig the Genie 10-31-04, 02:00 PM	All that damage reduction isn't too well thought out really.
Dackad 10-31-04, 08:31 PM	I'm wondering why it is that Devils and Demons can have their Damage Reduction overcome by Good, but not by their opposite Law/Chaos value. I ask because I'm having a hard time finding deadly extraplanars with vulnerabilities to Lawful or Chaotic aligned weapons (Though Inevitables do nicely), and was wondering if there's any reason why demons and devils are resistant to their opposite law/chaos alignment. Because demons and devils are beings from planes of pure evil TAINTED with law and chaos. Essentially, they are pure evil with tints of chaos and law. At least, that is how I look at it.
Judicator Shekar 10-31-04, 10:18 PM	Dackad is right in this regard. Essentially, Baator and the Abyss are planes that are evil and have been tainted by chaos or law. The more important point is that both Devils and Demons originated as Yugoloth. They are the members and elements of Yugoloth society/heirarchy that show the lawful (Baatezu) or chaotic (Tanar'ri) aspects of evil. After they split from this evil progenitor race eaons ago, they traveled to their respective planes.
hiryuu 10-31-04, 11:55 PM	Bah. That's just Yugoloth propaganda. Devils have been around since Ahriman fell, creating the nine layers of Baator, and the first ones spawned from his blood.
Shemeska the Marauder 11-01-04, 12:02 AM	Dackad is right in this regard. Essentially, Baator and the Abyss are planes that are evil and have been tainted by chaos or law. The more important point is that both Devils and Demons originated as Yugoloth. They are the members and elements of Yugoloth society/heirarchy that show the lawful (Baatezu) or chaotic (Tanar'ri) aspects of evil. After they split from this evil progenitor race eaons ago, they traveled to their respective planes. More the point that the Tanar'ri and Baatezu are the creations of the Yugoloths. When, at the urging of their own makers (the Baernaloths), they purged themselves of law and chaos they fused those fragments of law and chaos with the first larvae upon the Gray Waste and herded the resulting beings into the Abyss and Baator. These first Tanar'ri and Baatezu multiplied and became intimately tied down to the planes that they migrated to, colonized and conquered, themselves coming to reflect the nature of the planes they took root within. All the while the Yugoloths watched and recorded what transpired in this, their ultimate experiment into the nature of evil on the planes. The Baatezu of course did not find Baator uninhabited when they arrived and eventually conquered the plane from its native inhabitants, the Ancient Baatorians. Shortly after the ancients went into seclusion in baator the Lords of 9 appeared, either the result of the most powerful Baatezu gaining a sort of symbiotic link to the layers of the plane or perhaps they were at first living extensions of the plane itself that rose up to meet its new dominant race. Still others claim that perhaps some of the original Lords of the 9 were either some of the ancient Baatezu who betrayed their own kind or some of the yugoloths who had guided their infant creations into Baator in the first place, still watching over their flawed creations. Eventually the Tanar'ri and Baatezu encountered one another and the Blood War began, again all under the subtle hand and puppet strings of the Yugoloths. http://arcanofox.foxpaws.net/Puppets.jpg
hiryuu 11-01-04, 01:24 AM	Bah. Don't listen to him an' his spin! He'll make ya think the yugoloths run everything! Now, where's that carriage? It's never this late.
Lina_Inverse 11-01-04, 02:16 AM	Bah. Don't listen to him an' his spin! He'll make ya think the yugoloths run everything! Now, where's that carriage? It's never this late. only the lower planes.im sure shemmy knows as well as anyone they have no hold upon the good planes,and she prolly likes them there.herding mercy and compassion over there makes evil stronger. though to the orginal topic,im not sure.i personally like giveing critters multible DRS.(hence a devil has DRX/2-material and chaos and DRX/2-material and law or DRX/3 for all of them,depending.) baator is as much law as evil,and the abyss as much chaos as evil.the reality is good and evil are meaningless,that law and chaos more pure.EMBRACE THE TRUTH!
Dackad 11-01-04, 01:36 PM	Bah. Don't listen to him an' his spin! He'll make ya think the yugoloths run everything! Now, where's that carriage? It's never this late. Some people give too much credit to the 'loths. I like to think that the 'loths originally created the two other fiend groups, but that they have since then spun out of their control. The 'loths may put up an arrogant, haughty attitude, but they're meanwhile thinking to themselves 'What in the abyss is going on here?' It gets to the point when those pesky 'loths start pulling strings, they just don't know what strings they're pulling anymore. ;)
Shemeska the Marauder 11-01-04, 10:21 PM	The 'loths may put up an arrogant, haughty attitude, but they're meanwhile thinking to themselves 'What in the abyss is going on here?' It gets to the point when those pesky 'loths start pulling strings, they just don't know what strings they're pulling anymore. ;) Thing is... we don't put up that attitude except perhaps amongst ourselves. Openly we deny having control over the other fiends or being anything other than simple mercenaries. When asked about creating the other fiends though we're quite open about that. ;) It's a shame we let that copy of the Book of Derilect Magics get out...
Dackad 11-03-04, 02:29 AM	Thing is... we don't put up that attitude except perhaps amongst ourselves. Openly we deny having control over the other fiends or being anything other than simple mercenaries. When asked about creating the other fiends though we're quite open about that. ;) That's the 'loth way. Deny everything and only make vague hints at everything else. ;)
Nurgan_the_drunked 11-03-04, 09:55 AM	Why did you think the Blood Wars took so darn long?
TheArchfiend 11-03-04, 01:03 PM	lol you silly 'loth supporters. just because its the closest thing to a non-psychotic, evil human mind doesnt mean it really happened like that. consider the source my friend, consider the source. ;) :P
Shemeska the Marauder 11-03-04, 01:23 PM	lol you silly 'loth supporters. just because its the closest thing to a non-psychotic, evil human mind doesnt mean it really happened like that. consider the source my friend, consider the source. ;) :P Mmmm the lovely joys of sociopathy. http://arcanofox.foxpaws.net/shemmysmile.gif
Objulen 11-03-04, 09:45 PM	This is irrelevent, for the yugoloths are just as blind to the True Death as any other fiend. They believe that they ensnare other beings with their puppet strings, but in truth these strings only serve to bind them to this False Life and its sufferings.
Shemeska the Marauder 11-03-04, 11:19 PM	This is irrelevent, for the yugoloths are just as blind to the True Death as any other fiend. They believe that they ensnare other beings with their puppet strings, but in truth these strings only serve to bind them to this False Life and its sufferings. "Petitioners who were formerly members of the Dustmen in life have the funniest expressions on their faces when you meet up with them in Gehenna or the Waste and give 'em back their memories. It's like turning a bug upside down and watching it wriggle in vain." :smirk:
Objulen 11-04-04, 12:33 AM	"Petitioners who were formerly members of the Dustmen in life have the funniest expressions on their faces when you meet up with them in Gehenna or the Waste and give 'em back their memories. It's like turning a bug upside down and watching it wriggle in vain." The quest for True Death is a journey that lasts life times, a goal that must be constantly struggled for and requires perhaps ages of dedication. If escaping the lie of False Life were easy, the Planes themselves would have experiance True Death and seen the True Afterlife eons ago. Did not the Silent King of the Dead Nation finally find the peace of True Death? These poor petitioners still cling to their passions, vestigal though they might be, waiting to join the planes once again so they might once again set themselves towards unraveling the bindings of False Life.
TheArchfiend 11-04-04, 02:34 AM	Mmmm the lovely joys of sociopathy. http://arcanofox.foxpaws.net/shemmysmile.gif LOL!! ah too funny! some days it tastes just like chicken!