Dire Ape's rend damage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dire Ape's rend damage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Elenna
02-03-04, 11:57 AM Can anyone clarify the Dire Ape's rend damage for me?

In the SRD it lists the dire ape's rend damage as 2d6+9. But in the description of rend it lists the damage as 2d6+12. Which is it?

Thanks.
sandskimmer
02-03-04, 12:23 PM 2d6+9 should be correct. Rend should do 1.5 * str mod on damage, which is where the +9 would come from.

Also, ther SRD is newer & supposedly corrects any typos found in the printed books.
lukelightning
02-03-04, 12:39 PM Here's another question: if a dire ape beefs up its claw attack (like through taking improved natural attack does that change the rend to 2d8+9? If it has magic fang on both its claws, does it do 2d6+11 (because +1 on each claw)?

As much as I want the answer to be yes (since my druid likes to turn into a dire ape), I think I would say no; I'd rule the rend is its own natural attack. What are other people's opinions?
chris7476
02-03-04, 12:49 PM Here's another question: if a dire ape beefs up its claw attack (like through taking improved natural attack does that change the rend to 2d8+9?

(Hi Luke)

My guess would be yes. Rend uses whatever the creature's claw damage is. I think the formula is 2d(claw damage) + 1.5*Str. If the creature's damage increases somehow (Imp Nat Attack, increase in size, etc), I would figure rend would increase as well.
Elenna
02-03-04, 01:54 PM Thank you. That clears it up for me.

I guess the SRD still has typos. Both those rend damages are from the Dire Ape in the SRD.
lukelightning
02-03-04, 04:24 PM They make the same mistake with girallons. The Draconomicon clears this up; there is a rend feat that dragons can get; it gives them a rend that does double base claw damage plus 1.5 str bonus.
sandskimmer
02-04-04, 01:23 PM if a dire ape beefs up its claw attack (like through taking improved natural attack does that change the rend to 2d8+9?
The same question was brought up about the Minotaur's extraordinay charge ability.
I have to say that all special attacks, inculding rend, do not gain any additional benefit from Improved Natural Attack. I say this because the feat improves the base damage of normal attacks. Special attacks have extenuating circumstances associated with them. They are unique to specific creature types and deal a set amount of damage. To include extra damage granted by feats to these types of attacks tends to upset game balance.

With all that said, I can see why some folks think it should be included in special attacks, especially things like rend, where the damage is based off of the natural weapon that is improved.

So, in short, a valid arguement can be made either way. My decision is just personal preference.
cwslyclgh
02-04-04, 01:38 PM SS, you do realize that by ruling it your way you are making the Feat Luke mentioned form the Draconomicon more powerful then the (Ex) special attack (because the feat is based off of your claw damage, regardless of how it got to be what it is).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elenna 02-03-04, 11:57 AM	Can anyone clarify the Dire Ape's rend damage for me? In the SRD it lists the dire ape's rend damage as 2d6+9. But in the description of rend it lists the damage as 2d6+12. Which is it? Thanks.
sandskimmer 02-03-04, 12:23 PM	2d6+9 should be correct. Rend should do 1.5 * str mod on damage, which is where the +9 would come from. Also, ther SRD is newer & supposedly corrects any typos found in the printed books.
lukelightning 02-03-04, 12:39 PM	Here's another question: if a dire ape beefs up its claw attack (like through taking improved natural attack does that change the rend to 2d8+9? If it has magic fang on both its claws, does it do 2d6+11 (because +1 on each claw)? As much as I want the answer to be yes (since my druid likes to turn into a dire ape), I think I would say no; I'd rule the rend is its own natural attack. What are other people's opinions?
chris7476 02-03-04, 12:49 PM	Here's another question: if a dire ape beefs up its claw attack (like through taking improved natural attack does that change the rend to 2d8+9? (Hi Luke) My guess would be yes. Rend uses whatever the creature's claw damage is. I think the formula is 2d(claw damage) + 1.5*Str. If the creature's damage increases somehow (Imp Nat Attack, increase in size, etc), I would figure rend would increase as well.
Elenna 02-03-04, 01:54 PM	Thank you. That clears it up for me. I guess the SRD still has typos. Both those rend damages are from the Dire Ape in the SRD.
lukelightning 02-03-04, 04:24 PM	They make the same mistake with girallons. The Draconomicon clears this up; there is a rend feat that dragons can get; it gives them a rend that does double base claw damage plus 1.5 str bonus.
sandskimmer 02-04-04, 01:23 PM	if a dire ape beefs up its claw attack (like through taking improved natural attack does that change the rend to 2d8+9? The same question was brought up about the Minotaur's extraordinay charge ability. I have to say that all special attacks, inculding rend, do not gain any additional benefit from Improved Natural Attack. I say this because the feat improves the base damage of normal attacks. Special attacks have extenuating circumstances associated with them. They are unique to specific creature types and deal a set amount of damage. To include extra damage granted by feats to these types of attacks tends to upset game balance. With all that said, I can see why some folks think it should be included in special attacks, especially things like rend, where the damage is based off of the natural weapon that is improved. So, in short, a valid arguement can be made either way. My decision is just personal preference.
cwslyclgh 02-04-04, 01:38 PM	SS, you do realize that by ruling it your way you are making the Feat Luke mentioned form the Draconomicon more powerful then the (Ex) special attack (because the feat is based off of your claw damage, regardless of how it got to be what it is).