Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mythandra 03-14-08, 10:23 AM	I was looking through the wild shape options for my druid when I noticed that a dire bear has a 2d4 claw attack. Improved Natural Attack lists a progression that goes: ...1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6... Is 2d4 simply an improved 1d8? If so, according to Improved Natural Attack, a dire bear with this feat should progress to 2d6. What if I then applied the Warshaper's "morphic weapons" ability to the claw attack? According to the the Warshaper PrC, I should consult table 5-1 on pg296 of the DMG which states that claw attacks at 2d6 should progress to 2d8. This, of course, brings us to the dire bear's bite attack at 2d8. If I apply Improved Natural Attack first, it looks like I'd go from 2d8 to 3d8. The problem here is that if I then apply Morphic Weapons, no entry exists for 3d8 on table 5-1. 3d8 is very close to 4d6 however. If I interpret 3d8 as 4d6, Morphic Weapons takes me off the end of the chart. If I turn it around and apply Morphic Weapons first, I go from 2d8 to 4d6. Now, if I try to match 4d6 to the Improved Natural Attack chart, It would appear that the dire bears's 4d6 becomes a 6d6 attack. Can someone clarify this for me? Also, who was the genius that decided to create two marginally different progressions for 5-1 and Improved Natural Attack? I mean, it's not a totally fubar but it's darned annoying.
Kain_Darkwind 03-14-08, 06:11 PM	I was looking through the wild shape options for my druid when I noticed that a dire bear has a 2d4 claw attack. Improved Natural Attack lists a progression that goes: ...1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6... Is 2d4 simply an improved 1d8? If so, according to Improved Natural Attack, a dire bear with this feat should progress to 2d6. What if I then applied the Warshaper's "morphic weapons" ability to the claw attack? According to the the Warshaper PrC, I should consult table 5-1 on pg296 of the DMG which states that claw attacks at 2d6 should progress to 2d8. This, of course, brings us to the dire bear's bite attack at 2d8. If I apply Improved Natural Attack first, it looks like I'd go from 2d8 to 3d8. The problem here is that if I then apply Morphic Weapons, no entry exists for 3d8 on table 5-1. 3d8 is very close to 4d6 however. If I interpret 3d8 as 4d6, Morphic Weapons takes me off the end of the chart. If I turn it around and apply Morphic Weapons first, I go from 2d8 to 4d6. Now, if I try to match 4d6 to the Improved Natural Attack chart, It would appear that the dire bears's 4d6 becomes a 6d6 attack. Can someone clarify this for me? Also, who was the genius that decided to create two marginally different progressions for 5-1 and Improved Natural Attack? I mean, it's not a totally fubar but it's darned annoying. A dire bear with improved natural attack has 2d6 damage. The 2 d4s are treated separately and each one is improved by the feat. 1d4>1d6 1d4>1d6 total=2d6