Dire Crocodile [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dire Crocodile [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CelestialBarbarian
06-15-05, 06:49 AM Has anyone seen a dire crocodile published anywhere?

Thanks! :)
Moradin
06-15-05, 10:41 AM Well, the monster manual has the Giant Crocodile, which could probably be used as a dire crocodile.
CelestialBarbarian
06-15-05, 10:53 AM Well, the monster manual has the Giant Crocodile, which could probably be used as a dire crocodile.

Well, the Monster Manual contains both a large and a huge shark, and yet still has a dire shark, so why not a dire crocodile as well as the giant crocodile? :)
Moradin
06-15-05, 10:56 AM Good point. I suppose you could look at the Medium Shark and the Dire Shark, and see how they upped the stats, and then just do the same, proportionally, with the medium sized crocodile to make the dire crocodile.
CelestialBarbarian
06-15-05, 11:18 AM Good point. I suppose you could look at the Medium Shark and the Dire Shark, and see how they upped the stats, and then just do the same, proportionally, with the medium sized crocodile to make the dire crocodile.

Or look at the how they went from the huge shark to the dire shark and so something similar going from the (huge) giant crocodile to a dire crocodile.

Actually it's funny but I'm doing this because I want to have an evil lycanthrope that's a lot tougher than a dire werewolf would be. A crocodile seemed like a likely choice for an evil lycanthrope. A giant werecrocodile wouldn't be any tougher than a dire werelion, adding 59 (v. 60 for the dire werelion) hp to the base creature (half elves). A dire weretiger, on the other hand, would add 120 hit points! I'm tempted to just make these unusual evil-aligned dire weretigers and skip the crocs entirely, but I'm not sure if dire weretigers might not just a little too tough, and I don't like to mess too much with the typical alignments.
Moradin
06-15-05, 11:25 AM Well, I just did some research and apparently there are Werecrocodiles in Monsters of Faerun. I don't know if you have access to the book or not, but that may help.
CelestialBarbarian
06-15-05, 11:40 AM Well, I just did some research and apparently there are Werecrocodiles in Monsters of Faerun. I don't know if you have access to the book or not, but that may help.

Wow! Thanks! I completely forgot to look in that book, buried at the very bottom of my Forgotten Realms stack. :embarrass Now that I see it I do vaguely recall seeing the werecrocodile before, which might explain why I thought to ask if anyone had seen one published.

I looked at the huge shark and dire shark and see that the dire shark simply starts at 18 hit dice, one more than the maximum for the huge shark. I could simply advance a large croc likewise to one hit die more than the maximum of 14. A 15 hit-die dire croc would have more hit points than the dire lion but probably less than the dire tiger. (I'll have to advance the giant croc first to find out what abilities scores it ends up with.) This could be a good option after all, and would explain why after devouring/infecting the village, they moved south instead of hanging around. At the latitude of the village, it's a LONG way down to the big river, but further south the land has sloped down to a flat plain level with the riverbank.

Thanks again!
Fiery_Overlord
06-15-05, 05:49 PM Huge Crocodile/Scrag Troll Lycanthropes

It is a natural combination. You said you want tougher try using a better humanoid/giant material. Note medium sized creatures would be immune to this strain of lycathropy, but thats ok because it would spread like wild fire among scrags because thier ability to regenerate means they'll survive a good mauling. What keeps most evil lycanthrope populations down is most victims die.
golyrut113
06-15-05, 06:05 PM Well, this doesn't really have to do with werecroc's or such, but since you were talking about crocs it just reminded me of this cool ability from The Quintessential Ranger's prestige class: the animal champion and one of his abilities if he champions croc's... basically the ability allows him to wait in fresh water and when prey comes by he lashes out with lightning speed to kill it... the ability allows him to hold his breath 1 hour before needing to make constitution checks, he gains +4 to hide & move silently, he gets +4 to initiative, & a sneak attack like a rouge of similar level, it's an extraordinary ability. I just thought it was cool & just wanted to mention it, since you were talking about crocs.
Ront Iron-Roar
06-15-05, 06:08 PM I can imagine that have a Faerun Campaign where Methmere has become the site of a growing population of Werecrocodile Scrags.

That or trying something in Ebberon of the sort. Have a Scrag mercenary who became afflicted from a fight in Droam. Have the Church of Silver Flame after him and have it end up running around in the sewers of Sharn. Nice little twist on that alligators in the sewer idea. Then have an NPC from House Vadalis (Steve Erwin.) who specializes in crocs try and come and figure out what is in the sewers.

Oh and if you want an updated 3.5 version of a Werecrocodile look in Sandstorm.
CelestialBarbarian
06-15-05, 11:08 PM Huge Crocodile/Scrag Troll Lycanthropes

It is a natural combination. You said you want tougher try using a better humanoid/giant material. Note medium sized creatures would be immune to this strain of lycathropy, but thats ok because it would spread like wild fire among scrags because thier ability to regenerate means they'll survive a good mauling. What keeps most evil lycanthrope populations down is most victims die.

While that's a great idea, it doesn't work with this particular situation. The party is headed for the village of one of the PCs, a half-elf, where everyone has either become a lycanthrope or been eaten by one. So the lycanthropes must all be half-elves.
CelestialBarbarian
06-15-05, 11:24 PM Wow! Thanks! I completely forgot to look in that book, buried at the very bottom of my Forgotten Realms stack. :embarrass Now that I see it I do vaguely recall seeing the werecrocodile before, which might explain why I thought to ask if anyone had seen one published.

I looked at the huge shark and dire shark and see that the dire shark simply starts at 18 hit dice, one more than the maximum for the huge shark. I could simply advance a large croc likewise to one hit die more than the maximum of 14. A 15 hit-die dire croc would have more hit points than the dire lion but probably less than the dire tiger. (I'll have to advance the giant croc first to find out what abilities scores it ends up with.)

It turns out that because the crocodile has a higher Constitution than the dire tiger, a croc with 15 hit dice actually has more hit points than a dire tiger.

I'm still on sure which way I'm going to do with this. I'm tempted to just go with evil dire weretigers, or perhaps advanced dire werelions, since most of the area consists of dry land. On land, in game terms, large predatory cats with both pounce and improved grab probably represent a more serious threat, I think, than slower crocodiles with only improved grab.

On the other hand, who says that every monster has to be encountered in its most favorable terrain? If the party runs into the northernmost remaining werecrocs, ones that haven't yet migrated all the way to where they can easily access the river, they would just not have the full advantages of their animal form yet--no death roll underwater to drown the victim.

Later, if the party chooses to follow the swath of predation left by the lycanthropes, the party will find itself in marshy land near the banks of the river further south, and there the crocs can pull then underwater, representing an escalation of the challenge the lycanthropes present the party.
sabrewolf
06-16-05, 04:16 AM Just thought the remindall or note might be of use:

#1 Were-critters come from normal animals not their dire versions..

#2 Were-critters are a template wich have it´s building engineering written at the beguining of their entry so you can apply them to dire-animals for a nastyer improoved effect..

#3 While there are no templates (that i know of) of dire-animals or animals-of-legend, comparision of them with the simple, normal version of an animal can (when done for 3 diferent animals for better base) with reverse engineering create the desired template..

#4 The Feral template might be equal to the dire-animal template.. or might be different.. please experiment with #3 before drawing conclusions..

#5 Feral Dire Were-Animal of Legend is a Vile-DM´s tool of utter evil and absolute terror of a non-munchkin player :devil: :plotting: :evillaugh able to get worse with other templates stacked to it... but warning, use of such may ocasionly cause absolute hatred from your peers or absolutely kender-style :gah: worship (annoyance) of your person from a munchkin player... :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CelestialBarbarian 06-15-05, 06:49 AM	Has anyone seen a dire crocodile published anywhere? Thanks! :)
Moradin 06-15-05, 10:41 AM	Well, the monster manual has the Giant Crocodile, which could probably be used as a dire crocodile.
CelestialBarbarian 06-15-05, 10:53 AM	Well, the monster manual has the Giant Crocodile, which could probably be used as a dire crocodile. Well, the Monster Manual contains both a large and a huge shark, and yet still has a dire shark, so why not a dire crocodile as well as the giant crocodile? :)
Moradin 06-15-05, 10:56 AM	Good point. I suppose you could look at the Medium Shark and the Dire Shark, and see how they upped the stats, and then just do the same, proportionally, with the medium sized crocodile to make the dire crocodile.
CelestialBarbarian 06-15-05, 11:18 AM	Good point. I suppose you could look at the Medium Shark and the Dire Shark, and see how they upped the stats, and then just do the same, proportionally, with the medium sized crocodile to make the dire crocodile. Or look at the how they went from the huge shark to the dire shark and so something similar going from the (huge) giant crocodile to a dire crocodile. Actually it's funny but I'm doing this because I want to have an evil lycanthrope that's a lot tougher than a dire werewolf would be. A crocodile seemed like a likely choice for an evil lycanthrope. A giant werecrocodile wouldn't be any tougher than a dire werelion, adding 59 (v. 60 for the dire werelion) hp to the base creature (half elves). A dire weretiger, on the other hand, would add 120 hit points! I'm tempted to just make these unusual evil-aligned dire weretigers and skip the crocs entirely, but I'm not sure if dire weretigers might not just a little too tough, and I don't like to mess too much with the typical alignments.
Moradin 06-15-05, 11:25 AM	Well, I just did some research and apparently there are Werecrocodiles in Monsters of Faerun. I don't know if you have access to the book or not, but that may help.
CelestialBarbarian 06-15-05, 11:40 AM	Well, I just did some research and apparently there are Werecrocodiles in Monsters of Faerun. I don't know if you have access to the book or not, but that may help. Wow! Thanks! I completely forgot to look in that book, buried at the very bottom of my Forgotten Realms stack. :embarrass Now that I see it I do vaguely recall seeing the werecrocodile before, which might explain why I thought to ask if anyone had seen one published. I looked at the huge shark and dire shark and see that the dire shark simply starts at 18 hit dice, one more than the maximum for the huge shark. I could simply advance a large croc likewise to one hit die more than the maximum of 14. A 15 hit-die dire croc would have more hit points than the dire lion but probably less than the dire tiger. (I'll have to advance the giant croc first to find out what abilities scores it ends up with.) This could be a good option after all, and would explain why after devouring/infecting the village, they moved south instead of hanging around. At the latitude of the village, it's a LONG way down to the big river, but further south the land has sloped down to a flat plain level with the riverbank. Thanks again!
Fiery_Overlord 06-15-05, 05:49 PM	Huge Crocodile/Scrag Troll Lycanthropes It is a natural combination. You said you want tougher try using a better humanoid/giant material. Note medium sized creatures would be immune to this strain of lycathropy, but thats ok because it would spread like wild fire among scrags because thier ability to regenerate means they'll survive a good mauling. What keeps most evil lycanthrope populations down is most victims die.
golyrut113 06-15-05, 06:05 PM	Well, this doesn't really have to do with werecroc's or such, but since you were talking about crocs it just reminded me of this cool ability from The Quintessential Ranger's prestige class: the animal champion and one of his abilities if he champions croc's... basically the ability allows him to wait in fresh water and when prey comes by he lashes out with lightning speed to kill it... the ability allows him to hold his breath 1 hour before needing to make constitution checks, he gains +4 to hide & move silently, he gets +4 to initiative, & a sneak attack like a rouge of similar level, it's an extraordinary ability. I just thought it was cool & just wanted to mention it, since you were talking about crocs.
Ront Iron-Roar 06-15-05, 06:08 PM	I can imagine that have a Faerun Campaign where Methmere has become the site of a growing population of Werecrocodile Scrags. That or trying something in Ebberon of the sort. Have a Scrag mercenary who became afflicted from a fight in Droam. Have the Church of Silver Flame after him and have it end up running around in the sewers of Sharn. Nice little twist on that alligators in the sewer idea. Then have an NPC from House Vadalis (Steve Erwin.) who specializes in crocs try and come and figure out what is in the sewers. Oh and if you want an updated 3.5 version of a Werecrocodile look in Sandstorm.
CelestialBarbarian 06-15-05, 11:08 PM	Huge Crocodile/Scrag Troll Lycanthropes It is a natural combination. You said you want tougher try using a better humanoid/giant material. Note medium sized creatures would be immune to this strain of lycathropy, but thats ok because it would spread like wild fire among scrags because thier ability to regenerate means they'll survive a good mauling. What keeps most evil lycanthrope populations down is most victims die. While that's a great idea, it doesn't work with this particular situation. The party is headed for the village of one of the PCs, a half-elf, where everyone has either become a lycanthrope or been eaten by one. So the lycanthropes must all be half-elves.
CelestialBarbarian 06-15-05, 11:24 PM	Wow! Thanks! I completely forgot to look in that book, buried at the very bottom of my Forgotten Realms stack. :embarrass Now that I see it I do vaguely recall seeing the werecrocodile before, which might explain why I thought to ask if anyone had seen one published. I looked at the huge shark and dire shark and see that the dire shark simply starts at 18 hit dice, one more than the maximum for the huge shark. I could simply advance a large croc likewise to one hit die more than the maximum of 14. A 15 hit-die dire croc would have more hit points than the dire lion but probably less than the dire tiger. (I'll have to advance the giant croc first to find out what abilities scores it ends up with.) It turns out that because the crocodile has a higher Constitution than the dire tiger, a croc with 15 hit dice actually has more hit points than a dire tiger. I'm still on sure which way I'm going to do with this. I'm tempted to just go with evil dire weretigers, or perhaps advanced dire werelions, since most of the area consists of dry land. On land, in game terms, large predatory cats with both pounce and improved grab probably represent a more serious threat, I think, than slower crocodiles with only improved grab. On the other hand, who says that every monster has to be encountered in its most favorable terrain? If the party runs into the northernmost remaining werecrocs, ones that haven't yet migrated all the way to where they can easily access the river, they would just not have the full advantages of their animal form yet--no death roll underwater to drown the victim. Later, if the party chooses to follow the swath of predation left by the lycanthropes, the party will find itself in marshy land near the banks of the river further south, and there the crocs can pull then underwater, representing an escalation of the challenge the lycanthropes present the party.
sabrewolf 06-16-05, 04:16 AM	Just thought the remindall or note might be of use: #1 Were-critters come from normal animals not their dire versions.. #2 Were-critters are a template wich have it´s building engineering written at the beguining of their entry so you can apply them to dire-animals for a nastyer improoved effect.. #3 While there are no templates (that i know of) of dire-animals or animals-of-legend, comparision of them with the simple, normal version of an animal can (when done for 3 diferent animals for better base) with reverse engineering create the desired template.. #4 The Feral template might be equal to the dire-animal template.. or might be different.. please experiment with #3 before drawing conclusions.. #5 Feral Dire Were-Animal of Legend is a Vile-DM´s tool of utter evil and absolute terror of a non-munchkin player :devil: :plotting: :evillaugh able to get worse with other templates stacked to it... but warning, use of such may ocasionly cause absolute hatred from your peers or absolutely kender-style :gah: worship (annoyance) of your person from a munchkin player... :D