Dire Mouflon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dire Mouflon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Otto the Bugbear
06-16-07, 08:10 AM Hey all,

First, a short story. The group I'm DMing right now has a dwarven paladin in it. I was talking with the player and he mentioned wanting his paladin mount to be a ram of some kind, like a bighorn sheep found in the Rocky Mountains or something similar. Well, a short trip to wikipedia revealed two possible animals to use. The first was the bighorn and the second was one of the two ancestors of all modern goats; the Mouflon. (Funny sounding name, I know!)

So, I sent him the link for mouflon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouflon) and the link for bighorn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bighorn). Well, he decided to go with the Mouflon, and I'm a little glad he did. I mean, either one would have been pretty neat as a new alternative, but the Mouflon looks even more awesome, in this bugbear's humble opinion.

Now I'd like to put it onto the boards for all to see, critique, or use. So, feel free to comment however you see fit. I've got a thick skin (+3 natural armor) so I can take criticism as well if you find something wrong with it. Oh, and I had to go with a dire animal because mouflon are only about 2 ft. tall at the shoulder. Too small for a dwarf to ride.

DIRE MOUFLON
"The Mouflon is a species of wild sheep and as such is one of the Caprinae or "goat antelopes". It is thought to be one of the two ancestors for all modern domestic sheep breeds. It is red-brown with a dark back-stripe, light colored saddle patch and underparts. The males are horned and the females are horned or polled." - Wikipedia entry for Mouflon

A dire mouflon stands about 5 feet at the shoulder and weighs over 700 pounds. Like dwarves, they are compact but strongly built.

http://dsenchuk.googlepages.com/mouflon_sm.bmp

Large Animal
Init +2 (dex); Senses Listen +4, Spot +4
Space/Reach 10 ft. / 5 ft.

AC 15, touch 11, flat-footed 13; (+2 dex, +4 natural, -1 size)
hp 26 (4d8+8)
Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +2

Speed 40 ft. (8 squares)
Melee gore +6 (2d6+4/20/x2)
Base Atk +3; Grp +10

Abilities Str 17, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 4
SQ Low-light vision, scent
Feats Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (gore)
Skills Balance +13/3r, Climb +9/2r, Jump +9/2r, Listen, +4/0r, Spot +4/0r

Racial Abilities:
Dire mouflon are adept at living in mountainous regions and gain a +8 bonus to Balance check, a +4 bonus to Jump checks, and a +4 bonus on Climb checks. Naturally wary, they gain a +2 bonus to Listen and Spot checks

Carrying Capacity: A light load for a dire mouflon is 258 pounds; a medium load is 259 - 519 pounds; and a heavy load is 520 – 780 pounds. A dire mouflon can drag 3900 pounds.
obrysii
06-16-07, 08:55 AM Ugh. The new monster format is terrible for critiquing, since it is missing numbers and it is harder to gauge the CR of something due to things being split up.
Otto the Bugbear
06-16-07, 09:20 AM Ok. I added a couple things
Space/Reach
Changed to show how the hit points were calculated.

Other than that, the information is presented with exactly as much detail as previously, with the obvious omission of Environment, CR, Organization, Alignment, Advancement, and Level Adjustment. Except it's not in exactly the same order.

Any specific example of what numbers you'd like to see detailed more?
obrysii
06-16-07, 09:53 AM For animals, I guess this format is O.K.

But as soon as you start gaining special qualities or attacks, and they all get scattered, is when it gets bad.

Here it is in the old format (italics represent errors that have been fixed):

Dire Mouflon
Large Animal
Hit Dice: 4d8+8 (26hp)
Initiative: +2 (dex)
Speed: 40ft
Armor Class: 15 (+2 dex, +4 natural, -1 size), Touch 13, Flatfoot 14
BaB/Grapple: +3/+10
Attack: Gore +6 (2d6+4)
Full Attack: Gore +6 (2d6+4)
Space/Reach: 10ft/5ft
Special Attacks: --
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, Scent
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +2
Abilities: Str 17, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 4
Skills: Balance +13/3r, Climb +9/2r, Jump +9/2r, Listen, +4/0r, Spot +4/0r
Feats: Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (gore)

I'd peg it at around CR 3
Otto the Bugbear
06-16-07, 05:26 PM Thanks for bringing up the size to AC mod. And size to grapple.

Touch AC is size plus dex only. So: AC 15, Touch 11, FF 13

Also, CR 3? Not a chance.

Light Warhorse is CR 1, and is a little less powerful than this.
Heavy Warhorse is CR 2, and is a little more powerful than this.
obrysii
06-16-07, 08:48 PM This deals 2d6+4 per hit. That is why.
Otto the Bugbear
06-17-07, 08:52 AM :rofl:

Sure.

CR 3
Centaur: 3 HD Longsword 2d6+6 plus hoof 1d6+2 plus hoof 1d6+2, darkvision, 4HD, +8 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Int, +2 Wis
Unicorn: 4 HD, horn 1d8+8, darkvision, magic circle against evil, immune to poison / charm / compulsion, wild empathy, Str 20, Dex 17, Con 21, Int 10, Wis 21, Cha 24, Spell-like abilities (CLW 3/day, CMW 1/day, Neutralize Poison 1/day)
Dire Wolf: 6 HD, bite 1d8+10, Trip
Deinonychus: 4 HD, talons 2d6+4 plus foreclaw 1d3+2 plus foreclaw 1d3+2 plus bite 2d4+2, pounce

CR 2
Bison: 5HD, Gore 1d8+9, Stampede
Heavy Warhorse: 4HD, hoof 1d6+4 plus hoof 1d6+4 plus bite 1d4+2
Giant Ant Queen: 4HD, 2d6+4, improved grab, vermin traits
Crocodile: 3HD, bite 1d8+6 or tail slap 1d12+6, Improved Grab
Hippogriff: 3 HD, claw 1d4+4 plus claw 1d4+4 plus bite 1d8+2, darkvision, flight 100 ft.

I tried to pick mostly "mount-type" stuff there. Even if a couple of them would be pretty strange and wondrous to use as mounts (ant queen) or seem a bit powerful (hippogriff; flight!)

Now, please point me to what you're using as a criteria for making it CR 3. I really want to learn. Cause looking at that list, it's solidly a CR 2.
obrysii
06-17-07, 10:42 AM Hm. Well. Maybe they're a CR 2.5? :P

Or perhaps my sense of CRs are skewed ... I DM for a group of two min/maxers ... not a balanced party of four.
Dracomortis
06-17-07, 03:39 PM Hm. Well. Maybe they're a CR 2.5? :P

Or perhaps my sense of CRs are skewed ... I DM for a group of two min/maxers ... not a balanced party of four.
Actually, that's pretty close to my estimation as well. These things are CR 2, but they're definitely on the higher end.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Otto the Bugbear 06-16-07, 08:10 AM	Hey all, First, a short story. The group I'm DMing right now has a dwarven paladin in it. I was talking with the player and he mentioned wanting his paladin mount to be a ram of some kind, like a bighorn sheep found in the Rocky Mountains or something similar. Well, a short trip to wikipedia revealed two possible animals to use. The first was the bighorn and the second was one of the two ancestors of all modern goats; the Mouflon. (Funny sounding name, I know!) So, I sent him the link for mouflon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouflon) and the link for bighorn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bighorn). Well, he decided to go with the Mouflon, and I'm a little glad he did. I mean, either one would have been pretty neat as a new alternative, but the Mouflon looks even more awesome, in this bugbear's humble opinion. Now I'd like to put it onto the boards for all to see, critique, or use. So, feel free to comment however you see fit. I've got a thick skin (+3 natural armor) so I can take criticism as well if you find something wrong with it. Oh, and I had to go with a dire animal because mouflon are only about 2 ft. tall at the shoulder. Too small for a dwarf to ride. DIRE MOUFLON "The Mouflon is a species of wild sheep and as such is one of the Caprinae or "goat antelopes". It is thought to be one of the two ancestors for all modern domestic sheep breeds. It is red-brown with a dark back-stripe, light colored saddle patch and underparts. The males are horned and the females are horned or polled." - Wikipedia entry for Mouflon A dire mouflon stands about 5 feet at the shoulder and weighs over 700 pounds. Like dwarves, they are compact but strongly built. http://dsenchuk.googlepages.com/mouflon_sm.bmp Large Animal Init +2 (dex); Senses Listen +4, Spot +4 Space/Reach 10 ft. / 5 ft. AC 15, touch 11, flat-footed 13; (+2 dex, +4 natural, -1 size) hp 26 (4d8+8) Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +2 Speed 40 ft. (8 squares) Melee gore +6 (2d6+4/20/x2) Base Atk +3; Grp +10 Abilities Str 17, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 4 SQ Low-light vision, scent Feats Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (gore) Skills Balance +13/3r, Climb +9/2r, Jump +9/2r, Listen, +4/0r, Spot +4/0r Racial Abilities: Dire mouflon are adept at living in mountainous regions and gain a +8 bonus to Balance check, a +4 bonus to Jump checks, and a +4 bonus on Climb checks. Naturally wary, they gain a +2 bonus to Listen and Spot checks Carrying Capacity: A light load for a dire mouflon is 258 pounds; a medium load is 259 - 519 pounds; and a heavy load is 520 – 780 pounds. A dire mouflon can drag 3900 pounds.
obrysii 06-16-07, 08:55 AM	Ugh. The new monster format is terrible for critiquing, since it is missing numbers and it is harder to gauge the CR of something due to things being split up.
Otto the Bugbear 06-16-07, 09:20 AM	Ok. I added a couple things Space/Reach Changed to show how the hit points were calculated. Other than that, the information is presented with exactly as much detail as previously, with the obvious omission of Environment, CR, Organization, Alignment, Advancement, and Level Adjustment. Except it's not in exactly the same order. Any specific example of what numbers you'd like to see detailed more?
obrysii 06-16-07, 09:53 AM	For animals, I guess this format is O.K. But as soon as you start gaining special qualities or attacks, and they all get scattered, is when it gets bad. Here it is in the old format (italics represent errors that have been fixed): Dire Mouflon Large Animal Hit Dice: 4d8+8 (26hp) Initiative: +2 (dex) Speed: 40ft Armor Class: 15 (+2 dex, +4 natural, -1 size), Touch 13, Flatfoot 14 BaB/Grapple: +3/+10 Attack: Gore +6 (2d6+4) Full Attack: Gore +6 (2d6+4) Space/Reach: 10ft/5ft Special Attacks: -- Special Qualities: Low-light vision, Scent Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +2 Abilities: Str 17, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 4 Skills: Balance +13/3r, Climb +9/2r, Jump +9/2r, Listen, +4/0r, Spot +4/0r Feats: Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (gore) I'd peg it at around CR 3
Otto the Bugbear 06-16-07, 05:26 PM	Thanks for bringing up the size to AC mod. And size to grapple. Touch AC is size plus dex only. So: AC 15, Touch 11, FF 13 Also, CR 3? Not a chance. Light Warhorse is CR 1, and is a little less powerful than this. Heavy Warhorse is CR 2, and is a little more powerful than this.
obrysii 06-16-07, 08:48 PM	This deals 2d6+4 per hit. That is why.
Otto the Bugbear 06-17-07, 08:52 AM	:rofl: Sure. CR 3 Centaur: 3 HD Longsword 2d6+6 plus hoof 1d6+2 plus hoof 1d6+2, darkvision, 4HD, +8 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Int, +2 Wis Unicorn: 4 HD, horn 1d8+8, darkvision, magic circle against evil, immune to poison / charm / compulsion, wild empathy, Str 20, Dex 17, Con 21, Int 10, Wis 21, Cha 24, Spell-like abilities (CLW 3/day, CMW 1/day, Neutralize Poison 1/day) Dire Wolf: 6 HD, bite 1d8+10, Trip Deinonychus: 4 HD, talons 2d6+4 plus foreclaw 1d3+2 plus foreclaw 1d3+2 plus bite 2d4+2, pounce CR 2 Bison: 5HD, Gore 1d8+9, Stampede Heavy Warhorse: 4HD, hoof 1d6+4 plus hoof 1d6+4 plus bite 1d4+2 Giant Ant Queen: 4HD, 2d6+4, improved grab, vermin traits Crocodile: 3HD, bite 1d8+6 or tail slap 1d12+6, Improved Grab Hippogriff: 3 HD, claw 1d4+4 plus claw 1d4+4 plus bite 1d8+2, darkvision, flight 100 ft. I tried to pick mostly "mount-type" stuff there. Even if a couple of them would be pretty strange and wondrous to use as mounts (ant queen) or seem a bit powerful (hippogriff; flight!) Now, please point me to what you're using as a criteria for making it CR 3. I really want to learn. Cause looking at that list, it's solidly a CR 2.
obrysii 06-17-07, 10:42 AM	Hm. Well. Maybe they're a CR 2.5? :P Or perhaps my sense of CRs are skewed ... I DM for a group of two min/maxers ... not a balanced party of four.
Dracomortis 06-17-07, 03:39 PM	Hm. Well. Maybe they're a CR 2.5? :P Or perhaps my sense of CRs are skewed ... I DM for a group of two min/maxers ... not a balanced party of four. Actually, that's pretty close to my estimation as well. These things are CR 2, but they're definitely on the higher end.