Dire template [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dire template [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hochiu
03-03-07, 12:46 PM If this has been posted before, I apologize. Or if this is even in existence. If it is, just direct me to it?

But why isn't there a dire template?
lugnut71
03-03-07, 12:57 PM The simple answer is that most dire creatures are set at specific CR's. For instance say the dire wolf is CR 4 (I don't know if this is correct and I'm not taking the 10 seconds to look it up) The regular wolf is CR 1. Now the brown bear is CR 5 while the dire bear is CR 9. The difference between the two wolves' STR is 5 while the bears is 15. Basically that would require two different templates to emulate the changes of the two different animals. Normally a dire template wouldn't really be that hard to do but because the designers wanted the animals and dire animals to follow a specific set of CR (based on old editions and what have you) it becomes almost impossible to do.
Hochiu
03-03-07, 01:03 PM Though they did make a "titanic" template to make regular creature's collossal. It seems to me you'd have more use for a dire template than a titanic one.
Domriso
03-03-07, 01:07 PM Yes, but the dire creatures are supposed to be primal versions of their current forms. These primal forms have exaggerated features, so that their natural strengths are even greater in their dire form. Even though their entire physcial abilities are increased, their talents are even greater.
NerdNumber1
03-03-07, 01:11 PM Dozens have had the same thought, and made their own templates. I have see many, but don't know where they are.
Domriso
03-03-07, 01:16 PM Really, i believe that you should look at each particular creature to make a dire version of it. Increase its strengths and make all around better. That's the easiest way to do it, in my opinion.
Angelflesh
03-03-07, 07:31 PM I used to wish there was a Dire Template, but now i've realized that the creatures are too unique. However, there is a Savage template in the Book of Templates that could give your creatures a similar feel.
Kitsuna
03-03-07, 07:47 PM I believe what's been said above is correct. Each "Primal" version of an animal is unique in it's own right, and thus "Dire" is just a codename for each of the creatures, while there is no actual template to make such a creature.

Also: Book of Templates?
Domriso
03-03-07, 10:08 PM I'd have to agree with Kitsuna, because that is exactly what i have been trying to say, but Kitsuna stated it so much better.
And i second the motion. they should release a book of templates. There's enough of them.
Angelflesh
03-04-07, 12:19 AM I'd have to agree with Kitsuna, because that is exactly what i have been trying to say, but Kitsuna stated it so much better.
And i second the motion. they should release a book of templates. There's enough of them.

Actually, he was referring to my post suggesting the "Savage" template from the Book of Templates by Goodman Games.
Kitsuna
03-04-07, 12:32 AM Thank you for posting the book. The first part was what he was talking about, when I stated something else. But that's just running circles.
Domriso
03-04-07, 12:35 AM Okay, i'll take your word for it, because now i'm slightly confused.
Tetsubo
03-04-07, 03:55 AM This is the one I have...

Animal, Dire (Template)

Dire animals are feral looking beasts with a vaguely prehistoric look. They have long, sharp teeth and claws, and there is a glow of savage intelligence in their eyes.

Though they resemble the animal from which they are born, dire animals are more aggressive and generally larger than their normal counterparts.
Creating a Animal, Dire
“Dire” is a template that can be added to any animal (referred to hereafter as the “base animal”). The animal gains the subtype Dire. It uses all the base animal's statistics and abilities except as noted here.

Size:If the base animal is Small or smaller, increase its size category by one or to the largest size listed in its advancement range, whichever is greater. If the base animal is Medium-size or larger, its size increases to the largest size listed for the base animal’s advancement range. The base animal gains all the benefits and detriments that arise from increased size (see the MM).

Hit Dice: Increase by +2 HD
AC: Same as the base animal and natural armor increases by +2. This bonus stacks with the bonus gained from the increase in size
Special Attacks: A dire animal retains all the base animal's special attacks. The damage of its special attacks is adjusted upwards for the increased size and ability scores, where applicable
Special Qualities: A dire animal retains all the base animal's special qualities. These special qualities are adjusted upwards for the increased size and ability scores, where applicable
Saves: Recalculate the saves with all values high
Abilities: Dire animals gain the following ability score increases: Str +4, Dex +2, and Con +2. These bonuses stack with any bonuses gained from a size increase (see the MM)
Skills: Same as base animal, adjusted for increased ability scores, where applicable
xver
03-04-07, 08:06 AM The version I have and use for all dire animals is from the nice folks at Necromancer Games (http://www.necromancergames.com/). It's in a PDF entitled Dire Animals from the Tome of Horrors (http://necromancergames.com/pdf/ToHDire.pdf). It also includes about a dozen sample dire animals (beware the Dire Skunk) for your gaming pleasure.
Wolf72
03-04-07, 07:02 PM what xver said ... I really like the ToH version of Dire template
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
03-04-07, 08:05 PM This is the one I have...

Animal, Dire (Template)

Dire animals are feral looking beasts with a vaguely prehistoric look. They have long, sharp teeth and claws, and there is a glow of savage intelligence in their eyes.

Though they resemble the animal from which they are born, dire animals are more aggressive and generally larger than their normal counterparts.
Creating a Animal, Dire
“Dire” is a template that can be added to any animal (referred to hereafter as the “base animal”). The animal gains the subtype Dire. It uses all the base animal's statistics and abilities except as noted here.

Size:If the base animal is Small or smaller, increase its size category by one or to the largest size listed in its advancement range, whichever is greater. If the base animal is Medium-size or larger, its size increases to the largest size listed for the base animal’s advancement range. The base animal gains all the benefits and detriments that arise from increased size (see the MM).

Hit Dice: Increase by +2 HD
AC: Same as the base animal and natural armor increases by +2. This bonus stacks with the bonus gained from the increase in size
Special Attacks: A dire animal retains all the base animal's special attacks. The damage of its special attacks is adjusted upwards for the increased size and ability scores, where applicable
Special Qualities: A dire animal retains all the base animal's special qualities. These special qualities are adjusted upwards for the increased size and ability scores, where applicable
Saves: Recalculate the saves with all values high
Abilities: Dire animals gain the following ability score increases: Str +4, Dex +2, and Con +2. These bonuses stack with any bonuses gained from a size increase (see the MM)
Skills: Same as base animal, adjusted for increased ability scores, where applicable

Tip: When stealing content and claiming it as your own, don't steal well-known content.
Perseus_Stoned
03-04-07, 08:16 PM In Tetsubos defense he simply said this is the one he "has" or possesses, not necessarily that he produced such a template. However, he is definitely guilty of not giving credit where it is due (which, again in his defense, might have been a simple case of forgetfullness). Perhaps you could do us the honors... "Raymond_Luxury_Yacht"?

(I'll admit, after giving such a spew I didn't expect to end it with "that")
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
03-05-07, 03:37 AM In Tetsubos defense he simply said this is the one he "has" or possesses, not necessarily that he produced such a template. However, he is definitely guilty of not giving credit where it is due (which, again in his defense, might have been a simple case of forgetfullness). Perhaps you could do us the honors... "Raymond_Luxury_Yacht"?

(I'll admit, after giving such a spew I didn't expect to end it with "that")

It's from Enworld's Creature Collection, I believe.
Wolf72
03-05-07, 05:02 PM from Creature Catalog hosted by EN World

By Scott Greene

http://www.enworld.org/cc/
xver
03-05-07, 10:34 PM Actually, once I read over the above posted template, it looked pretty familer, so I took another peak at the ToH PDF I've got. It's basically the same template, and guess what, Scott Greene is one of the two authors credited. Small world huh? The version given above is kind of a quick and dirty version of the full version, which has more information, especially about handling hit dice.

While what's posted above seems to indicate it gets a flat +2 hit dice, it actually gets +2 hit dice over and above what it would take to advance it to it's new size. Furthermore, that's only if it's medium or larger, if it's small, it has a smaller amount.

So is the EnWorld version that sloppy, or is it just the above poster slacking off?
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
03-05-07, 10:39 PM So is the EnWorld version that sloppy, or is it just the above poster slacking off?

The EnWorld version is identical to what he posted. It was modified for ToH.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hochiu 03-03-07, 12:46 PM	If this has been posted before, I apologize. Or if this is even in existence. If it is, just direct me to it? But why isn't there a dire template?
lugnut71 03-03-07, 12:57 PM	The simple answer is that most dire creatures are set at specific CR's. For instance say the dire wolf is CR 4 (I don't know if this is correct and I'm not taking the 10 seconds to look it up) The regular wolf is CR 1. Now the brown bear is CR 5 while the dire bear is CR 9. The difference between the two wolves' STR is 5 while the bears is 15. Basically that would require two different templates to emulate the changes of the two different animals. Normally a dire template wouldn't really be that hard to do but because the designers wanted the animals and dire animals to follow a specific set of CR (based on old editions and what have you) it becomes almost impossible to do.
Hochiu 03-03-07, 01:03 PM	Though they did make a "titanic" template to make regular creature's collossal. It seems to me you'd have more use for a dire template than a titanic one.
Domriso 03-03-07, 01:07 PM	Yes, but the dire creatures are supposed to be primal versions of their current forms. These primal forms have exaggerated features, so that their natural strengths are even greater in their dire form. Even though their entire physcial abilities are increased, their talents are even greater.
NerdNumber1 03-03-07, 01:11 PM	Dozens have had the same thought, and made their own templates. I have see many, but don't know where they are.
Domriso 03-03-07, 01:16 PM	Really, i believe that you should look at each particular creature to make a dire version of it. Increase its strengths and make all around better. That's the easiest way to do it, in my opinion.
Angelflesh 03-03-07, 07:31 PM	I used to wish there was a Dire Template, but now i've realized that the creatures are too unique. However, there is a Savage template in the Book of Templates that could give your creatures a similar feel.
Kitsuna 03-03-07, 07:47 PM	I believe what's been said above is correct. Each "Primal" version of an animal is unique in it's own right, and thus "Dire" is just a codename for each of the creatures, while there is no actual template to make such a creature. Also: Book of Templates?
Domriso 03-03-07, 10:08 PM	I'd have to agree with Kitsuna, because that is exactly what i have been trying to say, but Kitsuna stated it so much better. And i second the motion. they should release a book of templates. There's enough of them.
Angelflesh 03-04-07, 12:19 AM	I'd have to agree with Kitsuna, because that is exactly what i have been trying to say, but Kitsuna stated it so much better. And i second the motion. they should release a book of templates. There's enough of them. Actually, he was referring to my post suggesting the "Savage" template from the Book of Templates by Goodman Games.
Kitsuna 03-04-07, 12:32 AM	Thank you for posting the book. The first part was what he was talking about, when I stated something else. But that's just running circles.
Domriso 03-04-07, 12:35 AM	Okay, i'll take your word for it, because now i'm slightly confused.
Tetsubo 03-04-07, 03:55 AM	This is the one I have... Animal, Dire (Template) Dire animals are feral looking beasts with a vaguely prehistoric look. They have long, sharp teeth and claws, and there is a glow of savage intelligence in their eyes. Though they resemble the animal from which they are born, dire animals are more aggressive and generally larger than their normal counterparts. Creating a Animal, Dire “Dire” is a template that can be added to any animal (referred to hereafter as the “base animal”). The animal gains the subtype Dire. It uses all the base animal's statistics and abilities except as noted here. Size:If the base animal is Small or smaller, increase its size category by one or to the largest size listed in its advancement range, whichever is greater. If the base animal is Medium-size or larger, its size increases to the largest size listed for the base animal’s advancement range. The base animal gains all the benefits and detriments that arise from increased size (see the MM). Hit Dice: Increase by +2 HD AC: Same as the base animal and natural armor increases by +2. This bonus stacks with the bonus gained from the increase in size Special Attacks: A dire animal retains all the base animal's special attacks. The damage of its special attacks is adjusted upwards for the increased size and ability scores, where applicable Special Qualities: A dire animal retains all the base animal's special qualities. These special qualities are adjusted upwards for the increased size and ability scores, where applicable Saves: Recalculate the saves with all values high Abilities: Dire animals gain the following ability score increases: Str +4, Dex +2, and Con +2. These bonuses stack with any bonuses gained from a size increase (see the MM) Skills: Same as base animal, adjusted for increased ability scores, where applicable
xver 03-04-07, 08:06 AM	The version I have and use for all dire animals is from the nice folks at Necromancer Games (http://www.necromancergames.com/). It's in a PDF entitled Dire Animals from the Tome of Horrors (http://necromancergames.com/pdf/ToHDire.pdf). It also includes about a dozen sample dire animals (beware the Dire Skunk) for your gaming pleasure.
Wolf72 03-04-07, 07:02 PM	what xver said ... I really like the ToH version of Dire template
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 03-04-07, 08:05 PM	This is the one I have... Animal, Dire (Template) Dire animals are feral looking beasts with a vaguely prehistoric look. They have long, sharp teeth and claws, and there is a glow of savage intelligence in their eyes. Though they resemble the animal from which they are born, dire animals are more aggressive and generally larger than their normal counterparts. Creating a Animal, Dire “Dire” is a template that can be added to any animal (referred to hereafter as the “base animal”). The animal gains the subtype Dire. It uses all the base animal's statistics and abilities except as noted here. Size:If the base animal is Small or smaller, increase its size category by one or to the largest size listed in its advancement range, whichever is greater. If the base animal is Medium-size or larger, its size increases to the largest size listed for the base animal’s advancement range. The base animal gains all the benefits and detriments that arise from increased size (see the MM). Hit Dice: Increase by +2 HD AC: Same as the base animal and natural armor increases by +2. This bonus stacks with the bonus gained from the increase in size Special Attacks: A dire animal retains all the base animal's special attacks. The damage of its special attacks is adjusted upwards for the increased size and ability scores, where applicable Special Qualities: A dire animal retains all the base animal's special qualities. These special qualities are adjusted upwards for the increased size and ability scores, where applicable Saves: Recalculate the saves with all values high Abilities: Dire animals gain the following ability score increases: Str +4, Dex +2, and Con +2. These bonuses stack with any bonuses gained from a size increase (see the MM) Skills: Same as base animal, adjusted for increased ability scores, where applicable Tip: When stealing content and claiming it as your own, don't steal well-known content.
Perseus_Stoned 03-04-07, 08:16 PM	In Tetsubos defense he simply said this is the one he "has" or possesses, not necessarily that he produced such a template. However, he is definitely guilty of not giving credit where it is due (which, again in his defense, might have been a simple case of forgetfullness). Perhaps you could do us the honors... "Raymond_Luxury_Yacht"? (I'll admit, after giving such a spew I didn't expect to end it with "that")
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 03-05-07, 03:37 AM	In Tetsubos defense he simply said this is the one he "has" or possesses, not necessarily that he produced such a template. However, he is definitely guilty of not giving credit where it is due (which, again in his defense, might have been a simple case of forgetfullness). Perhaps you could do us the honors... "Raymond_Luxury_Yacht"? (I'll admit, after giving such a spew I didn't expect to end it with "that") It's from Enworld's Creature Collection, I believe.
Wolf72 03-05-07, 05:02 PM	from Creature Catalog hosted by EN World By Scott Greene http://www.enworld.org/cc/
xver 03-05-07, 10:34 PM	Actually, once I read over the above posted template, it looked pretty familer, so I took another peak at the ToH PDF I've got. It's basically the same template, and guess what, Scott Greene is one of the two authors credited. Small world huh? The version given above is kind of a quick and dirty version of the full version, which has more information, especially about handling hit dice. While what's posted above seems to indicate it gets a flat +2 hit dice, it actually gets +2 hit dice over and above what it would take to advance it to it's new size. Furthermore, that's only if it's medium or larger, if it's small, it has a smaller amount. So is the EnWorld version that sloppy, or is it just the above poster slacking off?
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 03-05-07, 10:39 PM	So is the EnWorld version that sloppy, or is it just the above poster slacking off? The EnWorld version is identical to what he posted. It was modified for ToH.