Dire What? [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Dire What? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Echoes of Deception
11-08-05, 05:03 PM Most of us know that there are dire animals, and that there doesn't seem to be a template, anywhere except Enworld, to make your own dire animals. But that's not really what this thread is about.

Dire tortoise, dire eagle, dire badger, dire bear... does anyone see a pattern? They're all animals. Just animals. But what about a dire orc, dire human or dire deva? Would it be completely inconceivable to make other things "dire"?
mythSSK
11-08-05, 05:12 PM Seeing as the listing for the Dire animals says Dire Animals, you'd expect them just to be animals.
But what about a dire orc, dire human or dire deva?That just seems a bit overkill on the 'dire'. You wouldn't call them 'dire' -insert creature here- because something like a Dire Human would be sufficiently different from the base human to be called a completely different name. A ten foot tall guy with spikey bony ridges all over his body? Sounds more like a non-stone based bigger goliath to me (feral gargun?), not a human at all.

Would it be completely inconceivable to make other things "dire"?That's not to say I find it inconceivable, of course, in the case of things like magical beasts or other creatures, on a case-by-case basis. Dire Blink Dog? Hell yeah! Dire Ankheg? Bring it! Dire Lammasu? Not so much.
GhostStepper
11-08-05, 05:32 PM I wish they had a template for "dire" animals as well. I've had to make my own dire dinosaurs and couldn't find a consitent pattern in the stats of existing dire animals for me to be 100% satisfied with the results.

But once we have a pack of dire raptors attacking our PCs we can always add the "horrid" template from the ECS for even greater nastiness.
LordofNightmares
11-08-05, 05:55 PM Generally speaking the Dire Animals are just elevated size, Hit Dice and Damage Potential, with fluff and cosmetics thrown in for fun.

I'd say do the normal enhancement for 1-3 HD add some enahnced natural armor and make it easier to aggrivate.

Thats easy to do for anything. I agree with mythSSK, dire animal-like monsters would be fun. But making dire of highly intelligant creatures with magical powers... uhmm... no.
I've put together a few Dire nonstandard animals in my day, Dire Stirges (medium-sized) and Dire Hippogriff.
Prak, the Mad
11-08-05, 06:12 PM I'd say do the normal enhancement for 1-3 HD add some enahnced natural armor and make it easier to aggrivate.

I like how that's part of Dire, I mean, some regular creatures are already pretty easy to aggravate, like bears, you walk near one on a bad day, you're attacked,

I'd love to throw a Dire Bear at Pcs out of no where and when they ask why it attacked, just say "you walked within 2o miles of it, it was having a bad day"
LordofNightmares
11-08-05, 06:18 PM I'd love to throw a Dire Bear at Pcs out of no where and when they ask why it attacked, just say "you walked within 2o miles of it, it was having a bad day"

you think you are joking? dont you?
That is perfectly within character. If ti can smell/hear/see you and the dire Bear is having a bad day, you are lunch.
Centauri
11-08-05, 06:20 PM And why not dire plants? Some day I want to pit my players against raging dire blackberry bushes. Seriously. The berries are oh so sweet, but good luck picking any.
syrinth
11-08-05, 06:39 PM Elderberry Bush!

Sorry, QfG4 moment.... anyways.... I want a Dire template lol.
savant_warlord13
11-08-05, 08:14 PM I don't understand why you want anything else to be dire, but if you must, try the Feral template (Savage Species)
Olly
11-09-05, 04:24 AM I think that the idea of a dire orc is a perfectly acceptable one. I quite like the idea of a big, bad orc standing ten feet tall, stomping towards the PCs with a slightly disgruntled look on its face.
Rhomphaia
11-09-05, 05:36 AM Since so many of you asked for it, he is a dire template for you. Now this is a little nerfed, as I am trying to combine everything everyone wants (dire animals, magical beasts and humanoids) to be able to fit this template.

DIRE TEMPLATE
Occassionally a creature is born that is mutated, either through genetic fault or by some environmental occurance or the will of the gods. This creature grows quickly and tends to become very big for its race/kind by the time it is adolescant. These creatures also tend to be bad-tempered, wild by nature and more interested in throwing their weight around than thinking to solve problems.

"Dire" is an inherited template that can be added to any corporeal creature that has a natural life cycle and is Gargantuan size or smaller. The following types of creatures can be dire. Animal, Dragon, Giant, Humanoid, Magical Beast and Monstrous Humanoid. Any creature with the shapechanger subtype cannot be dire.

The base creature is altered as follows by this template.

Size and Type: The base creature's type does not change, but size increases to the next highest category. Example, a Small creature becomes Medium. This changes related aspects of the creature accordingly (Size bonus/penalty to AC, carrying capacity, attack bonus/penalty, etc).

Speed: Due to both the increased size and aggressivness, the creature's land speed increases by 10 ft. Other movement types do not change unless it is the primary movement mode of the creature.

Armor Class: Increase the base creature's natural armor bonus as follows based on its new size. Tiny or smaller- +0, Small- +1, Medium- +2, Large- +3, Huge- +4, Gargantuan- +7, Colassal- +11.

Special Attacks: The base creature retains all forms of attack and special attacks but gains no new ones. However, damage from natural weapons increases by one size category, as normal.

Hit Dice: Hit die type does not change, but add the following number of hit die based on the creature's new size. Small or smaller- +0, Medium- +1, Large- +2, Huge- +4, Gargantuan- +7, Colassal- +11.

Special Qualities: The base creature gains the following special quality.
Rage (Ex): When the creature is reduced to 0 or fewer HP, it remains conscious and able to fight. The creature is not stable and continues to lose HP as normal and short of healing magic, cannot stablize. The creature still dies at -10 HP.

Ability Scores: Only the base creature's strength changes, according to its new size. Tiny or smaller- +0, Small- +2, Medium- +4, Large- +6, Huge- +8, Gargantuan- +10, Colassal- +12.

Saves, Skills and Feats are unchanged, normal for creature type and hit dice.

I will leave appropriate CR and LA modifiers up to you guys.
Morka
11-09-05, 10:11 AM But what about a dire orc, dire human or dire deva? Would it be completely inconceivable to make other things "dire"?

And what about the Paragons? I think it's the equivalent...

By the way, check the thread about the unintentional joke for a very strange Dire animal...
I Am Famine
11-09-05, 11:22 AM I would like to see Dire versions of Dolphins, Hippo's (ToH) and Tyrannosaurs. By the way Rhomphaia that Dire Template is excellent. I may have to utilize it... :D
Silverthumb128
11-09-05, 12:58 PM Since so many of you asked for it, he is a dire template for you.

A little after the fact, but there's already been a Dire Template made: http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/view_t.php?TemplateID=22
savant_warlord13
11-09-05, 07:59 PM And what about the Paragons? I think it's the equivalent...

By the way, check the thread about the unintentional joke for a very strange Dire animal...

WOAH THERE!!! Paragons are an owful lot more powerful than the original than dire animals are!
syrinth
11-09-05, 08:03 PM I think he meant the Paragon Classes in Unearthed Arcana....
Echoes of Deception
11-09-05, 09:14 PM I can understand dire sentient beings coming up, though. Sometimes, a god just needs a more physically dangerous than usual <insert planar creatue here> for a particular goal it has. That's why I said something about a dire deva. Some god might just want to make a dire hound archon, because he needs to send a pack of them into Hell to rescue an imprisoned trumpet archon. And for that matter, a god or powerful extraplanar wizard who knows that a particularly gruesome battle is on the horizon may wish to make or breed a force of dire maurezhi...

Just throwing out ideas, again
sabrewolf
11-09-05, 10:02 PM I can understand dire sentient beings coming up, though. Sometimes, a god just needs a more physically dangerous than usual <insert planar creatue here> for a particular goal it has. That's why I said something about a dire deva. Some god might just want to make a dire hound archon, because he needs to send a pack of them into Hell to rescue an imprisoned trumpet archon. And for that matter, a god or powerful extraplanar wizard who knows that a particularly gruesome battle is on the horizon may wish to make or breed a force of dire maurezhi...

Just throwing out ideas, again

For that kind of idea there are more ways then simply Dire.. Of course, you could say dire is for animals only, maybe magical beasts... and leave the humanoids to pick the Feral template.. As for a Dire template, reverse engineering and a help from posters above shall do ;)

As for the need to trow something a bit bigger at the pleyers or at some part of the world for some plot/story, you have Dire, Feral, Of Legend... just one look at the Savage Species can rekindle your imagination.. :evillaugh And if that is not enough, there´s allways the mad wizard´s way (and a not too bad DM tool for spawning new critters) of using one creature as a template on another for an unusal and improbable, weird even, result of arcane tweaking of.. things. :D
Echoes of Deception
11-09-05, 10:27 PM I, uh... do not have Savage Species... :raincloud
warlockco
11-10-05, 03:23 AM I wish they had a template for "dire" animals as well. I've had to make my own dire dinosaurs and couldn't find a consitent pattern in the stats of existing dire animals for me to be 100% satisfied with the results.

But once we have a pack of dire raptors attacking our PCs we can always add the "horrid" template from the ECS for even greater nastiness.

Tome of Horrors, a 3.0E third party book, has a Dire Animal template I think.
warlockco
11-10-05, 03:24 AM But what about a dire orc, dire human or dire deva? Would it be completely inconceivable to make other things "dire"?

I think the Feral template would work towards that.
I Am Famine
11-10-05, 03:59 AM Tome of Horrors, a 3.0E third party book, has a Dire Animal template I think.

Yes it does though to be honest with you Rhomphaia's version is better, if only because its boths 3.0 and 3.5 friendly... :D
Khalarak Ironclaw
11-10-05, 03:54 PM I'd like to point out that not all Dire Animals have a size boost. Dire Bears, Dire Lions, Dire Apes, and Dire Tigers are all Large, the same size as their normal counterparts, Dire Sharks aren't any bigger than a Great White as far as rules are concerned.

And some move up considerably more than one size category. Dire Hawks and Dire Weasels go from Tiny to Medium, and Dire Bats go from Diminuitive to Large.

Just some things to keep in mind.
savant_warlord13
11-10-05, 04:08 PM I'd like to point out that not all Dire Animals have a size boost. Dire Bears, Dire Lions, Dire Apes, and Dire Tigers are all Large, the same size as their normal counterparts, Dire Sharks aren't any bigger than a Great White as far as rules are concerned.

And some move up considerably more than one size category. Dire Hawks and Dire Weasels go from Tiny to Medium, and Dire Bats go from Diminuitive to Large.

Just some things to keep in mind.

Flying foxes are tiny!
Weenie
11-10-05, 04:20 PM I, for one, don't want a Dire Creature template.

Not everything has to be templated. The dire animal category is not defined enough to warrant a single template for all creatures, especially if it could be applied to non-animals.

I want a dire siren, though.

Basically a less faery-ish and more beastly version of the MM II creature, with the traditional fishy bottom half, still captivates humanoids through song but also dines on them directly. Actually, in a d20 Modern game, it used to feed on fish but is switching to humans now that the seas are too polluted.

Double HD, better natural armor, bite attack (w/Improved Natural Attack feat), higher Str and Con, lower Int, Improved Grab instead of spell-like abilities.
Wolf72
11-10-05, 07:54 PM Tome of Horrors, a 3.0E third party book, has a Dire Animal template I think.

I recommend this version ... also the free (and 3.5) version is posted by [b]Silverthumb128[/i]

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Echoes of Deception 11-08-05, 05:03 PM	Most of us know that there are dire animals, and that there doesn't seem to be a template, anywhere except Enworld, to make your own dire animals. But that's not really what this thread is about. Dire tortoise, dire eagle, dire badger, dire bear... does anyone see a pattern? They're all animals. Just animals. But what about a dire orc, dire human or dire deva? Would it be completely inconceivable to make other things "dire"?
mythSSK 11-08-05, 05:12 PM	Seeing as the listing for the Dire animals says Dire Animals, you'd expect them just to be animals. But what about a dire orc, dire human or dire deva?That just seems a bit overkill on the 'dire'. You wouldn't call them 'dire' -insert creature here- because something like a Dire Human would be sufficiently different from the base human to be called a completely different name. A ten foot tall guy with spikey bony ridges all over his body? Sounds more like a non-stone based bigger goliath to me (feral gargun?), not a human at all. Would it be completely inconceivable to make other things "dire"?That's not to say I find it inconceivable, of course, in the case of things like magical beasts or other creatures, on a case-by-case basis. Dire Blink Dog? Hell yeah! Dire Ankheg? Bring it! Dire Lammasu? Not so much.
GhostStepper 11-08-05, 05:32 PM	I wish they had a template for "dire" animals as well. I've had to make my own dire dinosaurs and couldn't find a consitent pattern in the stats of existing dire animals for me to be 100% satisfied with the results. But once we have a pack of dire raptors attacking our PCs we can always add the "horrid" template from the ECS for even greater nastiness.
LordofNightmares 11-08-05, 05:55 PM	Generally speaking the Dire Animals are just elevated size, Hit Dice and Damage Potential, with fluff and cosmetics thrown in for fun. I'd say do the normal enhancement for 1-3 HD add some enahnced natural armor and make it easier to aggrivate. Thats easy to do for anything. I agree with mythSSK, dire animal-like monsters would be fun. But making dire of highly intelligant creatures with magical powers... uhmm... no. I've put together a few Dire nonstandard animals in my day, Dire Stirges (medium-sized) and Dire Hippogriff.
Prak, the Mad 11-08-05, 06:12 PM	I'd say do the normal enhancement for 1-3 HD add some enahnced natural armor and make it easier to aggrivate. I like how that's part of Dire, I mean, some regular creatures are already pretty easy to aggravate, like bears, you walk near one on a bad day, you're attacked, I'd love to throw a Dire Bear at Pcs out of no where and when they ask why it attacked, just say "you walked within 2o miles of it, it was having a bad day"
LordofNightmares 11-08-05, 06:18 PM	I'd love to throw a Dire Bear at Pcs out of no where and when they ask why it attacked, just say "you walked within 2o miles of it, it was having a bad day" you think you are joking? dont you? That is perfectly within character. If ti can smell/hear/see you and the dire Bear is having a bad day, you are lunch.
Centauri 11-08-05, 06:20 PM	And why not dire plants? Some day I want to pit my players against raging dire blackberry bushes. Seriously. The berries are oh so sweet, but good luck picking any.
syrinth 11-08-05, 06:39 PM	Elderberry Bush! Sorry, QfG4 moment.... anyways.... I want a Dire template lol.
savant_warlord13 11-08-05, 08:14 PM	I don't understand why you want anything else to be dire, but if you must, try the Feral template (Savage Species)
Olly 11-09-05, 04:24 AM	I think that the idea of a dire orc is a perfectly acceptable one. I quite like the idea of a big, bad orc standing ten feet tall, stomping towards the PCs with a slightly disgruntled look on its face.
Rhomphaia 11-09-05, 05:36 AM	Since so many of you asked for it, he is a dire template for you. Now this is a little nerfed, as I am trying to combine everything everyone wants (dire animals, magical beasts and humanoids) to be able to fit this template. DIRE TEMPLATE Occassionally a creature is born that is mutated, either through genetic fault or by some environmental occurance or the will of the gods. This creature grows quickly and tends to become very big for its race/kind by the time it is adolescant. These creatures also tend to be bad-tempered, wild by nature and more interested in throwing their weight around than thinking to solve problems. "Dire" is an inherited template that can be added to any corporeal creature that has a natural life cycle and is Gargantuan size or smaller. The following types of creatures can be dire. Animal, Dragon, Giant, Humanoid, Magical Beast and Monstrous Humanoid. Any creature with the shapechanger subtype cannot be dire. The base creature is altered as follows by this template. Size and Type: The base creature's type does not change, but size increases to the next highest category. Example, a Small creature becomes Medium. This changes related aspects of the creature accordingly (Size bonus/penalty to AC, carrying capacity, attack bonus/penalty, etc). Speed: Due to both the increased size and aggressivness, the creature's land speed increases by 10 ft. Other movement types do not change unless it is the primary movement mode of the creature. Armor Class: Increase the base creature's natural armor bonus as follows based on its new size. Tiny or smaller- +0, Small- +1, Medium- +2, Large- +3, Huge- +4, Gargantuan- +7, Colassal- +11. Special Attacks: The base creature retains all forms of attack and special attacks but gains no new ones. However, damage from natural weapons increases by one size category, as normal. Hit Dice: Hit die type does not change, but add the following number of hit die based on the creature's new size. Small or smaller- +0, Medium- +1, Large- +2, Huge- +4, Gargantuan- +7, Colassal- +11. Special Qualities: The base creature gains the following special quality. Rage (Ex): When the creature is reduced to 0 or fewer HP, it remains conscious and able to fight. The creature is not stable and continues to lose HP as normal and short of healing magic, cannot stablize. The creature still dies at -10 HP. Ability Scores: Only the base creature's strength changes, according to its new size. Tiny or smaller- +0, Small- +2, Medium- +4, Large- +6, Huge- +8, Gargantuan- +10, Colassal- +12. Saves, Skills and Feats are unchanged, normal for creature type and hit dice. I will leave appropriate CR and LA modifiers up to you guys.
Morka 11-09-05, 10:11 AM	But what about a dire orc, dire human or dire deva? Would it be completely inconceivable to make other things "dire"? And what about the Paragons? I think it's the equivalent... By the way, check the thread about the unintentional joke for a very strange Dire animal...
I Am Famine 11-09-05, 11:22 AM	I would like to see Dire versions of Dolphins, Hippo's (ToH) and Tyrannosaurs. By the way Rhomphaia that Dire Template is excellent. I may have to utilize it... :D
Silverthumb128 11-09-05, 12:58 PM	Since so many of you asked for it, he is a dire template for you. A little after the fact, but there's already been a Dire Template made: http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/view_t.php?TemplateID=22
savant_warlord13 11-09-05, 07:59 PM	And what about the Paragons? I think it's the equivalent... By the way, check the thread about the unintentional joke for a very strange Dire animal... WOAH THERE!!! Paragons are an owful lot more powerful than the original than dire animals are!
syrinth 11-09-05, 08:03 PM	I think he meant the Paragon Classes in Unearthed Arcana....
Echoes of Deception 11-09-05, 09:14 PM	I can understand dire sentient beings coming up, though. Sometimes, a god just needs a more physically dangerous than usual <insert planar creatue here> for a particular goal it has. That's why I said something about a dire deva. Some god might just want to make a dire hound archon, because he needs to send a pack of them into Hell to rescue an imprisoned trumpet archon. And for that matter, a god or powerful extraplanar wizard who knows that a particularly gruesome battle is on the horizon may wish to make or breed a force of dire maurezhi... Just throwing out ideas, again
sabrewolf 11-09-05, 10:02 PM	I can understand dire sentient beings coming up, though. Sometimes, a god just needs a more physically dangerous than usual <insert planar creatue here> for a particular goal it has. That's why I said something about a dire deva. Some god might just want to make a dire hound archon, because he needs to send a pack of them into Hell to rescue an imprisoned trumpet archon. And for that matter, a god or powerful extraplanar wizard who knows that a particularly gruesome battle is on the horizon may wish to make or breed a force of dire maurezhi... Just throwing out ideas, again For that kind of idea there are more ways then simply Dire.. Of course, you could say dire is for animals only, maybe magical beasts... and leave the humanoids to pick the Feral template.. As for a Dire template, reverse engineering and a help from posters above shall do ;) As for the need to trow something a bit bigger at the pleyers or at some part of the world for some plot/story, you have Dire, Feral, Of Legend... just one look at the Savage Species can rekindle your imagination.. :evillaugh And if that is not enough, there´s allways the mad wizard´s way (and a not too bad DM tool for spawning new critters) of using one creature as a template on another for an unusal and improbable, weird even, result of arcane tweaking of.. things. :D
Echoes of Deception 11-09-05, 10:27 PM	I, uh... do not have Savage Species... :raincloud
warlockco 11-10-05, 03:23 AM	I wish they had a template for "dire" animals as well. I've had to make my own dire dinosaurs and couldn't find a consitent pattern in the stats of existing dire animals for me to be 100% satisfied with the results. But once we have a pack of dire raptors attacking our PCs we can always add the "horrid" template from the ECS for even greater nastiness. Tome of Horrors, a 3.0E third party book, has a Dire Animal template I think.
warlockco 11-10-05, 03:24 AM	But what about a dire orc, dire human or dire deva? Would it be completely inconceivable to make other things "dire"? I think the Feral template would work towards that.
I Am Famine 11-10-05, 03:59 AM	Tome of Horrors, a 3.0E third party book, has a Dire Animal template I think. Yes it does though to be honest with you Rhomphaia's version is better, if only because its boths 3.0 and 3.5 friendly... :D
Khalarak Ironclaw 11-10-05, 03:54 PM	I'd like to point out that not all Dire Animals have a size boost. Dire Bears, Dire Lions, Dire Apes, and Dire Tigers are all Large, the same size as their normal counterparts, Dire Sharks aren't any bigger than a Great White as far as rules are concerned. And some move up considerably more than one size category. Dire Hawks and Dire Weasels go from Tiny to Medium, and Dire Bats go from Diminuitive to Large. Just some things to keep in mind.
savant_warlord13 11-10-05, 04:08 PM	I'd like to point out that not all Dire Animals have a size boost. Dire Bears, Dire Lions, Dire Apes, and Dire Tigers are all Large, the same size as their normal counterparts, Dire Sharks aren't any bigger than a Great White as far as rules are concerned. And some move up considerably more than one size category. Dire Hawks and Dire Weasels go from Tiny to Medium, and Dire Bats go from Diminuitive to Large. Just some things to keep in mind. Flying foxes are tiny!
Weenie 11-10-05, 04:20 PM	I, for one, don't want a Dire Creature template. Not everything has to be templated. The dire animal category is not defined enough to warrant a single template for all creatures, especially if it could be applied to non-animals. I want a dire siren, though. Basically a less faery-ish and more beastly version of the MM II creature, with the traditional fishy bottom half, still captivates humanoids through song but also dines on them directly. Actually, in a d20 Modern game, it used to feed on fish but is switching to humans now that the seas are too polluted. Double HD, better natural armor, bite attack (w/Improved Natural Attack feat), higher Str and Con, lower Int, Improved Grab instead of spell-like abilities.
Wolf72 11-10-05, 07:54 PM	Tome of Horrors, a 3.0E third party book, has a Dire Animal template I think. I recommend this version ... also the free (and 3.5) version is posted by [b]Silverthumb128[/i]